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Trump Takes 3 Positions on Abortion in 3 Hours; Backlash Over North Carolina's Anti-LGBT Law; Michaela Visits the "Cheers" Bar; CNN Takes You to 'The Eighties'. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 31, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Policy is, which is what he came out with after. You know, if you go watch the entirety of the Chris Matthews' interview, you see him asking the same question over and over. And this is what we see happen a lot with some hosts, some reporters. They'll ask Donald Trump the same question and no matter what he says they'll keep asking until they get the answer they want. And that's what Chris Matthews was doing. It's no -

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, part of it, Kayleigh, I just want to stop you because I have - I just want to stop you for one second because I have the transcript here. Part of it was that Chris Matthews was trying to get Trump to answer it. He was - Trump was sort of all over the map. Well, I don't know if I was - well, yes, I don't know, no, yes. So I think that Chris Matthews, in this situation, was trying to really pin him down on, are you saying that women should be punished? And after he pressed him a couple of times, that's when Donald Trump said, yes, there has to be some punishment.

MCENANY: Sure, but if the - if you watch, Donald Trump's trying to answer. And in the middle of his answers, Chris Matthews is already asking another question. So it was more like an inquisition that when you're on TV, more than any other candidate, in fact, I'd argue if you combine all the other candidates, Donald Trump's probably on more than they are, he misspoke and that's what happens. Sometimes we misspeak on air.

CAMEROTA: OK.

MCENANY: Donald Trump did. But what matters is what his policy is.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I know Ana's raring to get in. Ana, just, what do you think?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's so early in the morning for us to be talking about abortion, Don Lemon. What are you doing on TV at 7:00 in the morning? Look -

CAMEROTA: He's wondering the same thing.

NAVARRO: Frankly, think was not an inquisition. It was a tough interview. That is his interview style. Donald Trump has been on his interviews before. I think that he was thinking on his feet. That this is a policy he has not thought out. Donald Trump has not spent, you know, years, as most people who have been in elected office, thinking out positions, thinking out policy and thinking out how to articulate them. He got caught with his foot in his mouth. He said something that was awfully stupid, that made absolutely no sense. The minute I heard him utter it, I - you know, I was like, how do we punish women? How do you punish women? Do you flog them in a public square? Do you fine them? Do you make them wear a scarlet letter in 2016? I mean it was just a ridiculous, ridiculous statement. I am glad that for the first time I saw him turn around in a matter of hours and say, you know, let me clarify what I meant.

LEMON: Ana, let me read it. Let me read it. Let me read the clarification, Ana.

NAVARRO: Now what he didn't do, and he should have done, was admit that it was a mistake and that he misspoke.

LEMON: OK, here's what he said. There was a statement that was put out. I think this was like 3:45 in the afternoon. He said, "this issue is unclear and should be put back to the states for determination. Like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions, which I have outlined numerous times. Donald J. Trump." And then later on at 5:00 p.m. he said, "if Congress were to pass legislation" - or his campaign did, at least. "If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld the legislation or any other state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman. The woman is a victim in this case, as is the life in her womb. My position has not changed." Again, evoking Ronald Reagan. "Like Ronald Reagan, I am pro- life with exceptions."

So if that's three different positions in a matter of a couple of hours, as someone who is running for president of the United States, does one want their candidate out there having three different positions, Kayleigh, in a matter of a couple of hours?

MCENANY: I think he had one position and it was the last one that you mentioned. Yes, he said the opposite on Chris Matthews, but it was clear to me that it was a misspeak. I take Donald Trump at his word. He said he misspoke. The point is, he came out -

LEMON: Jeffrey Lord flat out called it a mistake this morning.

MCENANY: Sure. What - I think it was a mistake in that he misspoke. I don't think it was a mistake that he didn't have his policy positions together. I think he does have his policy positions together. But when you are hammered with question, which, by the way, this is exactly why Hillary Clinton refrains from doing national interviews because this is what happens. You have someone, if you go on an unfriendly network, and there's no doubt about it Chris Matthews is an unfriendly reporter to the conservative cause, or host to the conservative cause. When you go on a national interview, you will be hammered. It's why Hillary Clinton avoids going to the national stage as much as she can. It's why Ted Cruz avoids going on the national stage. Donald Trump, though, does it. He puts himself out there. And I think by virtue of that, you're going to have times when you misspeak. CAMEROTA: Ana, it wasn't just that he said that women should be

criminalized. He also said that abortion should be banned. He was asked that. He said it very clearly. He said - Chris Matthews says, "I'm asking you, do you want to ban it?" He - Donald Trump says, "I would." Then he - Chris Matthews says, "what happens if you do that?" Donald Trump rightly says, "well, you'd have to go back to a position where they had people - people will perhaps go to illegal places." And then Chris Matthews says, "yeah." And Donald Trump says, "but you have to ban it."

Again, outside of the mainstream. That's not how most Americans feel about abortion. They don't think that it should be band.

NAVARRO: Look, actually, as I think you know, on so many positions, Donald Trump, at some point in his life, has been outside of the mainstream, certainly of the Republican Party. And what happens is that his supporters apply that measuring stick to him. They hold him accountable for his latest and most recent position and they don't mind that he has had maybe three, four, five, six other positions in the course of a lifetime. You know, Mitt Romney had some of the same problems that he was labeled a flip-flopper, and he had to pay the piper for changing all those positions.

[08:35:18] Donald Trump, as I've said over and over again, does not get measured with a regular measuring stick of other elected officials. He gets measured with a measuring stick of a TV persona, of a brand that we all know, and he gets less scrutiny for it and less flak for saying, ha, I changed my positions yet again.

I think, you know, look, yesterday that statement he came out with, if the law was, you know - if abortion was banned, if Congress passed a law. Well in Spanish we've got a saying (speaking foreign language), if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. The bottom line is, what we're dealing today with is abortion is legal and you cannot punish women. And he quickly realized he had made a big, big mistake. It would be nice if he actually was able to utter the words, "I made a mistake."

CAMEROTA: Kayleigh, Ana, thank you. Thanks to your grandma as well. Great to talk to you both. Thank you.

All right, battle lines drawn over North Carolina's law that eliminates protections for the LGBT community. Next, we ask the lawmaker behind the measure why it's fair.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:26] LEMON: We have to discuss another very controversial topic this morning. A heated battle being waged in North Carolina over a new anti-discrimination law that excludes protections for the LGBT community. The fallout has been swift. Governors of New York, Washington and Vermont have banned official travel to North Carolina and more than 80 businesses are calling on Governor Pat McCrory to repeal the law. McCrory, for his part, blaming the media for the backlash.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. PAT MCCRORY (R), NORTH CAROLINA: I'm clearly confident, when the facts get out and when you clearly communicate the facts as opposed to some of this national propaganda, which is a well-coordinated political campaign that is distorting the facts of the true ordinance, then I think everything will be fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right, so let's get both sides now. North Carolina State Representative Dan Bishop is the lead sponsor of the bill and Cathryn Oakley is a senior legislative counsel for the Human Rights Campaign.

Good morning to both of you.

Representative Bishop, Governor McCrory says that the facts within HB- 2 being distorted by the media. How so?

REP. DAN BISHOP (R), NORTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Well, it's a very common sense measure. Good morning to you. Charlotte - the city of Charlotte, that I represent, passed an ordinance that, among other things, eliminated rights of privacy in bathroom and shower facilities, allowing people of the opposite sex to come in. And people were enormously upset about that. it created enormous turmoil. But we passed a law that restores common sense, establishes in public buildings a traditional bathroom use policy and clarifies the limits of local authority.

LEMON: Cate, how does this law effect LGBT citizens directly? Explain that to our viewers.

CATHRYN OAKLEY, SENIOR LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Yes. Well, I completely disagree with the idea that this is a common sense law. HB-2 is an extreme piece of legislation that was pushed by extreme legislators. HB-2 is unprecedented throughout the country. It is a more extreme bill than the bill that was vetoed by the Republican governor of South Dakota just a few months ago.

And this bill, not only does it overturn the provisions of the Charlotte non-discrimination ordinance that applied to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered people, it also institutes policies around bathroom use for both students and adults in public facilities. And that's incredibly important because it's that - that part of the bill, the part that talks about students and bathroom use that's similar to what was in South Dakota, this bill goes beyond that by extending that also to transgender adults who are in facilities that are owned by the state or state agencies, including public universities and cities. And so those - those bathrooms are now going to be offered only in a discriminatory way to transgender people. And it's hugely, hugely problematic.

LEMON: So here's the question then, Representative Bishop. Your state is now requiring students to use restrooms, locker rooms based on birth gender. But this legislation is at odds with the federal Title 9 law. So how - how do you plan to reconcile that? BISHOP: Well, it's not at odds with Title 9. And - and to correct you

slightly, it's not birth gender, it's - it's the gender birth - via the birth certificate. And that can be changed for someone who is a surgical transsexual. With respect to - and I lost the other part of your question, I'm sorry.

LEMON: I said, how do you plan to reconcile that? You said it wasn't at odds with Title 9.

BISHOP: Oh, Title 9, yes. So the Obama administration has a new interpretation of Title 9 that they've offered saying that discrimination against sex includes not allowing students to go into the opposite gender bathroom if they're transgender students, but it's contrary to their own regulations. And the only courts that have considered that argument have both rejected it.

LEMON: So how do you plan to deal with - with businesses who are opposing this? Because Bank of America, which is headquartered in Charlotte, North Carolina, announced late on Tuesday on Twitter that its leadership was joining over 80 chief executive, including Timothy Cook, who's the CEO of Apple, Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook, objecting to this new law. And then earlier in the day yesterday, the chief executives published a letter addressed to the governor on the Human Rights Campaign website saying, "such laws are bad for our employees and bad for business." So then how are you going to deal with the possible loss of millions and millions of dollars in revenue because people don't necessarily agree with these actions?

[08:45:01] BISHOP: Well, you know, there's a couple of polls out about what North Carolinians believe. And in both of those, as consistent with what happened in Houston about a year ago, 65 to 70 percent of people say they think the provision in Charlotte that sundered -- that, you know, eliminated the rights of women and children to privacy in bathrooms is unsafe and unreasonable. And so that is what we have repaired.

If those businesses -- you know, North Carolina is on the top four or five positions in every list of desirable places to do business in the nation. And if those businesses decide that -- if they are telling us to repeal our bill that restored those rights, those protections, then they are asking us to go back and revive Charlotte's orders that puts people in that untenable position that gives no credence whatsoever to the privacy rights of women and children in vulnerable positions. So -- I'm skeptical that is what they really mean. But if they do, then they are hurting themselves. Because North Carolinians, the people of North Carolina, are who we answer to.

LEMON: I wish we had more time to discuss this. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. The bill sponsor, Dan Bishop, and also Cathryn Oakley, senior legislative council for the Human Rights Campaign. Appreciate that.

Let's check now with CNN's Michaela Pereira. Hello, Michaela. What do you have for us? Are you going to finally tell us what you are doing?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: I have -- nope. I am not. I'm going to give you one more tease. After we come back from the break, you will find out where I am. But the last tease I'm going to give you is we might have busted a U-ey on our way here. Hm. That's it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:52] CAMEROTA: Welcome back, everybody. We have been trying to figure out all morning where Michaela Pereira is. She is about to reveal the big location. Michaela.

LEMON: Where you at, girl?

PEREIRA: All right. So here is one thing that I think might help you guys figure out where I am.

CROWD: Norm!

PEREIRA: Was that a hint? They all yelled "Norm." We're at the "Cheers" replica bar in Boston. Let's take the shot outside so you can see the image of this iconic bar that you probably remember from watching the show. 11 seasons this show was on during the eighties.

Everybody, continue to have a good time. Don't let me ruin your fun. I'm going to come over here so I can say hi to my friend, Norm, who we just shouted and welcomed to the show.

Yeah. It's -- This bar actually used to be called the Bullet and Finch and it was renamed the Cheers bar because so many people are a fan of the show that, of course, we know ran for 11 seasons. It was discovered -- this bar was discovered -- you can look around and see some of the wonderful setting of it. It was discovered by this Hollywood couple back in 1981 before the show debuted. They loved it so much they took pictures of the interior and the exterior, took it back to Hollywood, gave it to their set designer and said, hey, recreate this bar for us. They did use the exterior shot of the bar, though, for the actual broadcast.

We have been having a lot of fun talking to folks about all of the fun of this place. They had a huge, huge party at the season finale of the show. Inside here, Ali, I don't know if you remember watching the season finale --

CAMEROTA: I did a live shot. I think I did a live shot, maybe, from there. I -- you know, I lived in Boston so I went to that bar. Mostly to do live shots a lot. But Boston has great bars. I mean, Boston --

PEREIRA: Shots or live shots?

LEMON: Can I ask a question? Shelly Long or Kirstie Alley?

CAMEROTA: I don't know --

PEREIRA: Oh, that's a tough one. I loved watching Shelly Long.

CAMEROTA: I like both. Yeah. And I love Kirstie Alley. PEREIRA: Kirstie Alley -- In fact, if you guys stick with us a little

later on CNN, because I'm going to be here all day, I'm actually going to try and learn how to make one of the cocktails that debuted when Kirstie Alley debuted on the show. So stay tuned for that, people who are watching CNN.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Let's talk the '80s, friends.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the '80s.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: What do you got?

PEREIRA: Can we -- Well, I got a lot of questions for the two of you, because the three of us, I think we're all roughly around the same age, and we all loved watching movies, TV. Why don't we start with -- I want confessions from both of you about some of your favorites. Let's start with -- We're starting with TV, right?

CAMEROTA: Okay, yeah, go ahead. What was your favorite TV show?

PEREIRA: TV, Alley, go.

CAMEROTA: Oh, okay -- (inaudible) Okay, listen. I was in high school and college in the '80s, so I wasn't watching a lot of TV, but at night we would watch SNL, "Saturday Night Live," and that was the era of Jon Lovitz and Mark -- Mike Meyers.

PEREIRA: Oh, come on.

CAMEROTA: And Jon Lovitz, the pathological liar.

PEREIRA: Wayne's World.

CAMEROTA: He was like, yeah, I'm dating Morgan Fairchild, yeah.

PEREIRA: The church lady.

CAMEROTA: All of that. That was a great era.

PEREIRA: How about you, Don?

LEMON: I think you know. Come on, you had fashion, you had drama, you had people fighting. It is none other than -- there you go. Alexis Carrington Colby Dexter -- whatever. "Dynasty" across (inaudible). Oh look at that. Dominique Deveraux.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh. That is so good. What about you, Michaela?

PEREIRA: Does it not also -- Ali, does it not also tell us a whole lot about Don?

CAMEROTA: It does. (CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Here's the thing. So -- there were five of us -- There were five girls in my house growing up and we were each allowed to pick a show that was our favorite. So we all got to watch five shows. I fluctuated. I liked "Miami Vice," I liked "Eight is Enough," I liked "Growing Pains," I liked "Family Ties," I loved "The Cosby Show."

LEMON: I'm with you -- "Cosby Show" --

PEREIRA: Which I know is a little weird to say -- right now.

LEMON: No, but that's -- I felt the same way, Michaela, because I love "The Cosby Show" and I also loved "The Golden Girls" as well.

PEREIRA: Yeah.

LEMON: (Inaudible).

CAMEROTA: That's great. Okay --

PEREIRA: Favorite movie. Quick. Speed round. Favorite movie.

CAMEROTA: Oh, favorite movie.

LEMON: My favorite is "Coming to America."

CAMEROTA: What was my favorite movie? What do I tell the producers? "Raising Arizona." Look at how great this movie is. Give me that baby!

LEMON: Yeah. My favorite song was --

PEREIRA: Yeah. That was awesome. My favorite --

[08:55:00] LEMON: Oh, sorry, go ahead, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Go ahead. No, my favorite was "Summer School." Watched it 15 times as a teenager. I just have to admit that. As a teenager.

LEMON: Favorite song? Rick James. "Super Freak."

PEREIRA: Okay. All right, guys.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Come on now. That makes you dance.

PEREIRA: Here we go. I got to tell you about the -- I've got the series coming up tonight, 9:00 p.m., CNN. It's called "THE EIGHTIES." They're focusing on TV tonight. Make sure to tune in right here on CNN. It is going to be a great series, especially if you grew up in the '80s like we did.

CAMEROTA: All right, Michaela. Great to see you in my beloved town of Boston. Go have a bloody Mary and we will check with you throughout the day.

LEMON: "The Good Stuff" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Today's "Good Stuff" comes from Wichita, Kansas, where one little girl wanted to help out K-9 dogs at her local police station.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANNAH (PH), FUNDRAISES TO PROTECT POLICE DOGS: From the movie "Frozen," we're actually technically sisters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Aw. That's Hannah (ph) talking about the canine she wanted to raise money for. Hannah's mom told her she could start by selling candy and Anna (ph) did and raised over a thousand dollars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When it comes to dogs, that is a little bit different story. It is hard to raise that kind of money. At times. And it just helps outs when the community steps up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Do you know why this is "Good Stuff?" Because she raised enough to buy the canine a bulletproof vest.

CAMEROTA: That is beautiful. Thank you for that, Don. Time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.