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Trump Calls for Kasich to Drop Out; Clinton & Sanders Spar Over Debates; Two Dead, Dozens Injured in Amtrak Crash. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired April 04, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me get rid of the other two, and then I'll be presidential. OK?

[05:58:46] SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I could not care less about Donald Trump.

TRUMP: He's a dirty, rotten cheat. Remember that.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A vote for me is a vote for John Kasich.

TRUMP: It's good if he gets out. I don't want him in.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we're hearing is truly scary.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You are looking at the strongest Democratic candidate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's kind of a frightening few seconds. We didn't know what to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two killed, dozens injured in a new Amtrak derailment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The window got blown out right beside me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got off track, and then there was, like, a big explosion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This state has the most hateful law in America against LGBT people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This law puts us in danger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state is representing pragmatic middle America.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's incumbent upon you, Governor McCrory, to fix your mess.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Monday, April 4, 6 a.m. in the East. Alisyn could not bear to see me or J.B. with a tan so she's not here today, but we are.

It is Monday. Donald Trump is happier about that than anybody else in the race, because it means last week is over. Or is it? Ted Cruz still beating the drum of Trump's recent abortion punishment comments, especially with women voters ahead of tomorrow's very important Wisconsin primary.

Trump, however, reminding people about how he rebounded after some controversy to win big in New Hampshire. Cruz is saying if we want to look back, let's look back at Wisconsin looking like Iowa, John. That's what he's saying. He's looking for a big night.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: He does, Donald Trump, face an uphill battle. He's trailing Ted Cruz by double digits in both polls. And both candidates are desperate to clinch all of those states, 42 delegates. Donald Trump is now pushing for John Kasich to drop out of the race. Both Cruz and Trump want Kasich out. Trump says he would automatically win if Kasich would just quit. Both candidates this morning, they want to turn this race into a two-man situation.

We have the race covered the way that only CNN can. Let's begin with Jason Carroll, live in La Crosse, Wisconsin.

Good morning, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, John.

You know, Trump remaining as defiant as ever. He's had rough weeks before, and he's come out on top, telling a crowd last night, look for a surprise tomorrow. He says, despite what the polls say, he's going to win the state of Wisconsin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): GOP candidates making their final sprint to Wisconsin's primary tomorrow, barnstorming the battleground state. Trump admitting to having a rough week leading up to primary day after a slew of missteps in his campaign.

TRUMP: I took that answer. And I -- I didn't like it, because I think a lot of people didn't understand it.

CARROLL: At a town hall Sunday, the front-runner still struggling to articulate his shifting stance on abortion, after saying that, if abortion were outlawed, women who get the procedure should be punished.

TRUMP: Women go through a lot. They go through a tremendous punishment of themselves. And I didn't like it, because I wasn't sure people would understand it. So I clarified it, but it was just a clarification. And I think it was well-accepted. CARROLL: In a move to stem disapproval from women voters, Trump also

saying he regrets retweeting a mean-spirited photo of Ted Cruz's wife. But Cruz, who leads Trump in Wisconsin, says he's over it.

CRUZ: It's gotten to the point where I could not care less about Donald Trump.

CARROLL: Fueling the firestorm, Trump still standing by his campaign manager, facing battery charges for an alleged assault on a reporter. The billionaire fighting to make last-minute gains, state with an aggressive anti-Trump movement. Trump taking aim at rivals Cruz...

TRUMP: He's a cheater. He's a cheater. He's a dirty, rotten cheat. Remember that.

CARROLL: ... and John Kasich.

TRUMP: Everyone says he's such a nice guy. He's not a nice guy. He's a nasty guy, if you want to know the truth.

CARROLL: Trump doubling down on calls for the Ohio governor to leave the race, arguing that Kasich is taking his votes and has no chance of winning the nomination.

TRUMP: The problem is he's in the way of me. Not Cruz. He hurts me more than he hurts Cruz.

CARROLL: Another lingering issues: controversy over Trump's suggestion Japan and South Korea develop nuclear arms to protect themselves.

KASICH: You don't go running around talking about using nuclear weapons, period, end of story.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And Trump also taking heat for those controversial statements he made about the economy, saying the country is heading for a recession and that it's a, quote, "terrible time" to invest in the stock market. Trump, for his part, calling his opponents, quote, "leftovers," saying once he beats them, he says at that point he'll start acting so presidential everyone will be bored -- Chris, John.

CUOMO: All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Carroll. It's like we never left, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

CUOMO: You're off for a week. You come back. It's exactly how things were when you left it, only worse.

Let's discuss. We have CNN political analyst and former moderator of "Meet the Press," Mr. David Gregory; and CNN political commentator and political anchor of Time Warner Cable News, Errol Louis.

All right, Errol Louis. Let's start with the question that you gave me to ask you first right out of the box. Donald Trump looking at last week, his worst week ever, yes or no?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yes, it's a bad week. That's the point. You know, there -- were there weeks that were worse? Maybe. Yes or no. But I thought this was an extremely damaging week, not just because a poll came out showing that he's behind in Wisconsin and not just because his campaign manager got arrested, but because the comments that came out of his own mouth with the cameras rolling, showing that he hadn't thought through a lot of really important issues like abortion, like this whole question of nuclear deterrence. I mean, these are not abstract issues like trade policy and whether or not it's good for the economy.

I think everybody understands that nuclear weapons are a bad thing, and it's probably not a good idea to introduce them into the world's most hostile border, between the two Koreas. Or giving -- giving them or allowing them to sort of proliferate throughout the Middle East.

So I thought that showed, you know, weaknesses that the other candidates have talked about. But this time it came out of Trump's own mouth. And I thought that was extremely damaging to his candidacy.

[06:05:00] BERMAN: It's leaving a mark. I mean, it is leaving a mark. He is trailing, David Gregory, by a lot in the polls heading into the Wisconsin voting tomorrow. And if he loses in Wisconsin, this is a big deal. I mean, it would be a big win for Ted Cruz and a serious setback in Donald Trump's effort to get 1,237 delegates.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. There's a point of, does it really deny him the opportunity to get his 1,237? It's a state with working-class voters. The northwestern part of the state, up country, as they talk about in Wisconsin, is tailor-made for Donald Trump.

So all of that is true. There becomes an accumulation of mistakes, of a lack of discipline, of a kind of mess, as Peggy Noonan put it in her column in "The Wall Street Journal" over the weekend. The message is -- the mess is the message for Donald Trump. That's the real danger sign.

The up side for Trump, the ability to change his tune, his tone, his approach. And of course, what he's got coming up, namely New York, New Jersey. He's got a home base for him where he's already very strong. He's got an opportunity to rebound, I think.

CUOMO: All right. So let's take a look at the numbers here going forward. We know what's going on in Wisconsin. Cruz is saying that's because they're organizing like they did in Iowa. They're treating Wisconsin like they did Iowa. Steve King, who's his co-chairman of the campaign, was instrumental in Iowa, said Wisconsin's lining up the same way. So the numbers are good there. We've seen that. We'll have to see how it plays out tonight.

New York, David just mentioned -- Errol, let's look at it. Nobody knows it better than you do. Let's look at the numbers in New York. You're got Trump now 56, Cruz 20, Kasich 19. The rule is closed primary. You have to be Republican to vote in it. If you get over 50 percent, you get all the delegates, 95. How likely is it, it plays out that way?

LOUIS: Well, I don't know about district by district. Because there are some extremely Democratic districts that have really only a tiny handful of Republicans in them.

BERMAN: Dozens.

LOUIS: Yes, literally. I mean, New York City, 8 million people, right. We've got 460,000 Republicans. You know, and you spread those across maybe half a dozen districts, you know, you have very, very small numbers of people. And you have to get to them one by one. You've got to call them up.

CUOMO: What does that mean? It's not as easy as it seems, being New York and be Trump.

LOUIS: That's exactly right. And he doesn't have the kind of apparatus that is here to do that sort of thing. I mean, that's where your regular Republicans come in.

It is worth noting that the Republican Party statewide, even individual clubs, individual counties, have not by and large endorsed Donald Trump. I mean, they're thrilled to be sort of in play and have all of the candidates come to try and talk to them. But there's a lot of real hesitation about throwing in with Trump at this stage of the game.

BERMAN: And Cruz is the organization guy. Maybe he can get that organization going in this state.

David Gregory, what the hell is going on with John Kasich? Because now you have Donald Trump saying that Kasich should get out of the race, that Kasich is really only hurting Donald Trump. For weeks, it's been the Cruz and the Cruz campaign saying that John Kasich is only hurting them. Cruz and Trump both can't be right here. Who does Kasich hurt more?

GREGORY: Yes, right. Well, I mean, I think the reality is that his presence in the race still hurts Cruz more. If you're Donald Trump, I don't quite understand the attack, because a bigger race is still better for him.

But I think he may look at somebody like Kasich or anyone arrayed against him. In Cruz, at least he knows there's a guy who's not popular with the party establishment or even -- certainly the party establishment and a lot of rank and file Republicans. Kasich, who could become more of a safe harbor for the Republican Party with a convention in Cleveland, after all. He could certainly be part of a ticket. So the fact that he's out there. He's such a distinctly different candidate than Donald Trump, that I think he becomes a safe harbor for him for a lot of people in the party. And I think that's what bothers Trump.

But there's another piece of this. And that's more recently, Kasich has just started to go after Trump. You heard it in the Jason Carroll piece, on his views on nuclear proliferation in the Far East. He's talking about his lack of readiness. Kasich has decided it's time to really go after him.

CUOMO: Right. The counterpunch canard, though, I think Trump needs that as cover to go after Kasich. I think it's exactly what David just said, Errol. The same thing we've been hearing, which is Kasich is very high on appeal for a lot of of normal Republicans. I mean, many were saying five months ago, Kasich is the guy you have to look at. Kasich is the guy who can really unite the party. And now we're right on that precipice.

And that's where the rule 40-B that John Berman's been trying to explain to me all morning comes in. How big a deal is this rule going to be? And remind us why it's there in the first place.

LOUIS: Well, let me -- John Kasich, I think, as you suggest, is the kind of a candidate that, if you're a moderate Republican, if you're even a conservative Tea Party Republican, has experience, has the ability to sort of bring people together.

He can go into the convention. He can wait -- he can wait until a second ballot, perhaps even a third ballot, and then become the nominee. This has happened in the past.

So John Kasich has every reason to stay in the race. He has absolutely no reason to walk out of it.

CUOMO: What about 40-B?

LOUIS: I think -- I think Donald Trump is actually right about this. I've got to tell you. I mean, I think Kasich is taking votes away from Donald Trump.

When you go delegate by delegate, let's give him all of New Jersey. Let's give Cruz most of the remaining states after New York. You're going to find that Donald Trump has something like -- a scenario where he comes in with something like 1,200 delegate votes. And somebody like a John Kasich could actually make a huge, huge difference.

[06:10:09] GREGORY: And also, in state -- I think the key there is Trump is saying is, moving forward, that he takes votes from him in the kinds of states where Kasich can be stronger.

And also, let's remember the importance of Wisconsin, is that it will be a test of how much hemorrhaging Trump has experienced of female support, of women voters. Because we may see this in a more pronounced way of him losing these voters because of his comments and because of the organization against him.

CUOMO: All right, David, thank you very much. David Gregory, Errol Louis, appreciate it, as always -- Mick.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Looking to the Democrats now, tensions between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton boiling over. They're sparring over when they'll debate next, ahead of the delegate- rich New York primary. All of this as Sanders hopes that tomorrow he'll clinch his sixth win out of the last seven contests.

Chris Frates is live on Wausau, Wisconsin, with more for us.

Hey, Chris.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Michaela.

So the debate over debates exploded on the campaign trail this weekend with the Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton campaigns blaming each other for refusing to lock down a date to debate in the Empire State. I know that sounds a little Dr. Seussian, so let's break it down.

The Clinton campaign saying they proposed three different dates to debate Bernie Sanders in New York, and Sanders rejected them all. The Sanders folks saying, "Hold on. Wait a minute here. Those dates didn't work. For instance, one of those proposed dates was today, and tonight, of course is the NCAA men's basketball game." The Sanders folks say people want to watch basketball, not a presidential debate.

One of the other dates that was floated was April 14. The Sanders folks say they're planning a huge rally in New York City's Washington Square park that night. They have 10 to 20,000 people expected, so thanks, but no thanks. We're a little busy that night.

Now, the campaigns slugged it out. But take a listen to how Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton talked about it. They're a little more circumspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: I'm confident we'll work out at a time that's good for both of our schedules and when large numbers of people will be watching.

CLINTON: I'm confident that there will be. But I'm not -- I'm not the one negotiating it. That's going on between our campaigns. And I do know my campaign has been really trying to get a time that Senator Sanders's campaign would agree with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: So there you hear Clinton and Sanders using the same word: they're confident that there will be a debate. And the campaign manager for Bernie Sanders, Jeff Weaver telling me he thinks this will be settled soon.

But why is it so important? Look at the math. New York has about 250 delegates at stake. And Bernie Sanders, while he's expected to do well here in Wisconsin tomorrow, there's only 86 delegates here. And he's trailing Hillary Clinton by about 240.

So he wants to upset her in her adopted home state of New York. And when and where that debate happens could have a huge influence on Democrats before they go to the polls, John.

BERMAN: Chris Frates for us in Wisconsin. Thank you so much. Twelve minutes after the hour right now. Amtrak will run limited

service between Philadelphia and Wilmington, Delaware, this morning as investigators start piecing together why a train crashed into a backhoe near Philadelphia, killed two Amtrak construction workers.

CNN's Sara Ganim is live in Chester, Pennsylvania, with the very latest this morning. Good morning, Sara.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENTh: Good morning, John.

Scheduling and human error among the factors that investigators are considering this morning as they continue the investigation of the crash that happened on these tracks behind me.

The main question lingers: How could an Amtrak train and Amtrak construction workers not know they were on a path to collision?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM (voice-over): A frightening moment on board this Amtrak train just before 8 a.m. Sunday morning when it smashed into a piece of heavy equipment on the tracks, causing the engine to derail. The train was in route from New York to Savannah, Georgia, hitting a backhoe and crashing just south of Philadelphia. Two Amtrak workers were killed and more than 30 people injured in the collision. Passengers describing the harrowing ordeal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I woke up to being thrown into the seat in front of him, and the got window blown out beside me. Yes, it was -- there was a fireball. It was kind of a frightening few seconds. We didn't know what to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got off track. Then there was a big explosion. Then it was a fire. Then the windows bursted [SIC] out. And some people were cut up.

GANIM: The NTSB is now investigating, looking into whether a scheduling error was a factor.

RYAN FRIGO, NTSB INVESTIGATOR: We will be looking at mechanical operations, signal, track, human performance and survival factors.

GANIM: The derailment was the first of three incidents for Amtrak on Sunday. At about 3 p.m., a train struck a vehicle in Somonauk, Illinois, killing the 28-year-old driver. And then around 7:30 p.m., another accident when a train struck and injured a pedestrian in Bucks County, Pennsylvania.

The incidents come nearly a year after the deadly derailment in Philadelphia, when eight people were killed and 200 injured due to speed on a curved section of track. As for yesterday's crash outside of Philly, the NTSB says it's still too early to know exactly what happened.

[06:15:07] FRIGO: As of now, we have recovered the event data recorder, the forward-facing video and the inward-facing video from the locomotive to send to our laboratory in Washington, D.C.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: John, train No. 89 was en route to Georgia. But this stretch of track is part of the Northeast Corridor; 750,000 people take trains on that stretch between Washington and Boston every day. This caused significant delays on Sunday, which is a major day of travel for Amtrak. This morning, though, trains are running, though more slowly for this area between Wilmington and Philadelphia -- John.

BERMAN: Sara Ganim for us in Chester.

Coming up on NEW DAY, we're going to speak to a passenger who was on that Amtrak train, former presidential candidate Steve Forbes. He was on board, two cars from the back. He joins us at 8 p.m. Eastern. He was not hurt. But he's got some stories about what it was like on that train you will want to hear. We're also going to get his take on the 2016 presidential race.

CUOMO Frigid, cold temperatures, strong winds, leaving thousands of people without power all across the east. In just Massachusetts, a couple was killed after a tree crushed their car, trapping them as victims inside.

Now we hear in the forecast snow. For that, CNN meteorologist Chad Myers joins us.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes.

CUOMO: There was a lot of shock effect to this, Chad. What was it about this system that came in that caught people?

MYERS: I think it was the wind. And I think it was opening day. I think people expected baseball to be starting. And all of a sudden you don't expect to be winds blowing at 60, and now we have snow coming down.

Light snow coming down into Boston, also into, not Albany but just as light. An inch or two in Albany. There is the low. It goes by, but it keeps us cold. You would expect April, at least the middle of April to start getting up into the 60s and 70s once in a while. But we're not even going to approach normal for the next few days.

Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, all below normal for the next couple days. There goes the cold there. It tries to warm up. But another shot. Not going to use the word "polar" anything, but it's a polar shot of cold air coming down, keeping us well below normal -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: So you won't say the schmolar rhymes with word.

MYERS: No.

CUOMO: He just said it, right after saying he wouldn't say it.

PEREIRA: He did say it. Not trying to be nit-picky. CUOMO: That's what you've got.

BERMAN: Don't trust the media.

PEREIRA: Not trying to be nit-picky.

All right. Thanks so much.

CUOMO: Right after he said it.

PEREIRA: Bernie Sanders narrowing the lead that Hillary Clinton has in Wisconsin, narrowly leading Hillary Clinton in Wisconsin

Both candidates are ready to battle, though, for a bigger prize, the Big Apple. But can they even agree on their next debate date?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:21:57] BERMAN: Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, they both say they really badly want a debate ahead of the New York primaries about two weeks away. The only problem is neither campaign can actually agree on a date or dates. So what's going on here?

CUOMO: That's a problem.

BERMAN: Walk us through the back and forth between the campaigns. Once again, David Gregory and Errol Louis.

Errol, I love process, maybe more than anybody. But when you get into debates over debates, I think voters, they do not care at all, like at all here. So what's going on? Why is it important to both campaigns?

LOUIS: Well, it's important to Hillary Clinton to not give Bernie Sanders the date that he wants, because they've got an opportunity to sort of block them a little bit.

You know, apparently, a lot of this is pivoting around the 14th, which is a date that Bernie Sanders was planning a great big rally that was going to be sort of, really, the culmination of his campaign here in New York. And he has a lot on the line. He has a lot at stake.

Hillary Clinton's folks are saying, "Well, we're not going to just give that to you. We're going to have to negotiate over that." And, you know, maybe it will happen. Maybe it won't.

So there's a lot at stake for Bernie Sanders. He's within a couple of hundred delegates of actually catching her. And in theory, we know nobody wins 100 percent of any state. And not under the rules the Democrats have.

On the other hand, it's tantalizing to see 247 delegates in New York and to be down by something like 230 delegates. So Bernie Sanders is making a very, very hard, very high-stakes run at Hillary Clinton. And she's going to try and fend him off. And the debate is just one more area where they're going to be contending over the next few weeks. CUOMO: I'll play the Mounds to your Almond Joy. I'm not so much into

the process stuff myself, but I will tell you, we know why they're playing with the dates now. The game has changed in New York, David Gregory. There was a big assumption going into this that Hillary was going to roll. And if we put up the numbers right now, it looks like, well, she may well roll. Right? The numbers are big. What, do they average 54-42.

But it's how those numbers have changed. Bernie Sanders has made up a lot of ground. There's a lot of insider state politics behind that, but there's also some macro issues as well, David. What do you see?

GREGORY: Well, I think it's -- what Errol is talking about is important. He is inching up, and he's closing that gap. We know if we look at the Democratic race, it's very difficult to overcome a lead that he's down by to Hillary Clinton. He'd have to win overwhelmingly in New York, in New Jersey, Pennsylvania. So that may not be as likely.

But there are the super delegates, who he could be in a position to try to persuade to come his way if he continues to rack up victories. And look at his fundraising. For March, that he's up around $44 million. All of this, I think, is for Bernie Sanders to try to build a case to say, "Look, Hillary Clinton is a weak front-runner. She is not putting this thing away. I am still here. He is still pulling her to the left, potentially, and is certainly making the Clinton campaign upset on a couple of different scores. So he has got some momentum left here, a message and a very solid backing behind him. He's not going away.

BERMAN: He's not going away. He has the money to keep on campaigning. And you can start to see the campaign, the Clinton campaign, perhaps, getting a little frustrated by his continued presence. And there are moments that people are pointing to that show that even Hillary Clinton is letting the anger bubble over. Let's watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:25:08] CLINTON: But I have watched how we make progress in America. And once you finish venting your anger, then you've got to elect people who can get things done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wins, we lose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wins, we lose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wins, we lose.

CLINTON: I know the Bernie people came to say that. We're very sorry you're leaving.

I'm telling you, people, we actually have to do something. Not just complain about what is happening.

I do not. I have money from people who work for fossil fuel companies. I am so sick, I am so sick of the Sanders campaign lying about that. I'm sick of it!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: This is why. This is why Hillary Clinton wants to get Bernie Sanders out of the race if she can. But she can't.

LOUIS: That's exactly right. I mean, let's keep in mind she, from Hillary Clinton's point of view, she's done everything she was supposed to do. She lined up all of the money. She campaigned diligently last year. She has a bigger delegate lead. Just regular delegates, not the super delegates. But that's roughly twice the greatest lead that Obama ever had over her in 2008.

She is the last person in the world after what happened in 2008 to be able to say, "Hey, let's -- let's just declare this thing over and done with." So she's got to tolerate Senator Sanders. But, you know, some of her campaign people are starting to say, look, you know, mathematically, unless he's going to win 75 -- 60, 75 percent of all of the remaining delegates, he's not going to be the nominee.

CUOMO: But look at the other side of the race, David Gregory. It's not always about winning. It's about what your influence is, especially once you get into that convention. And you know, to Errol's point, the other side of it, she hasn't done everything she needed to do. She hasn't captured the imagination of her party in a way that blew Bernie out of the water.

And his people are pushing back saying, "Lying about what? What are we lying about? Did these people give you money? Are they connected to this industry? Is that undue influence or is it not?"

So how do you read on it?

GREGORY: Also, let's think about the Republicans here. I mean, Trump has a base of support that is so faithful to him, that's been very diehard. And so does Sanders. He may not get as much credit for that. But there are younger voters in the Democratic Party who are progressive who do not think she's the answer, who do not think that she is the future. And they are behind them in a stalwart way. They're giving money. They're showing up. And so I think that's a big piece of it.

The whole debate over the debates is process, of course. Because Hillary Clinton doesn't want to give Sanders any more oxygen in this race. She doesn't want to allow him to catch any more momentum here. And I think you're going to start to see Clinton supporters, particularly more progressives, try to argue that it's time for him to step down, which is not going to happen.

BERMAN: Errol Louis, David Gregory, thanks so much.

GREGORY: Thanks guys.

BERMAN: Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. We're going to take you now to Greece. Hundreds of migrants are being deported back to Turkey. That controversial plan is sparking global outrage. So will it continue? If it is stopped, what's the next best option?

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