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Trump & Cruz Battle Over Wisconsin; Clinton & Sanders Spar Over Debates; Two Dead, Dozens Injured in Amtrak Crash. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 04, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm very glad that the secretary has accepted the challenge to debate in New York.

[07:00:06] HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My campaign has been really trying to get a time that Senator Sanders's campaign would agree with.

SANDERS: I don't think that we are distorting reality. That's the symptom (ph) of reality.

CLINTON: They've been after me a really long time. It drives them crazy, but I'm still standing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's explosions, a loud bang.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A frightening moment on board this Amtrak train.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The windows bursted [SIC] out. And some people were cut up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was kind of a frightening few seconds. We didn't know what to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, April 4, now 7 a.m. in the east. Alisyn is off.

PEREIRA: Alisyn is so handsome.

CUOMO: J.B.

CUOMO: Alisyn, you shaved today. Very nice of you.

We begin with Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, making their final push for tomorrow's crucial Wisconsin primary. Cruz is holding a double-digit lead in the polls in a state that could decide whether the Republican convention is contested or not this summer. Forty-two delegates up for grabs tomorrow. Cruz's victory, if that's what happens, would make the delegate threshold very hard to reach for Donald Trump, that magic number: 1,237.

And let's not forget: Donald Trump coming off a tough week.

BERMAN: Both are Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, they are crisscrossing Wisconsin today. Both candidates they want this now to be a two-man race with the other. And both candidates demanding John Kasich drop out of the race. For Donald Trump, that's new.

Now Ted Cruz is also running an attack ad, a new ad, and sending out mailers blasting John Kasich.

Let's begin with Jason Carroll in LaCrosse, Wisconsin.

Good morning, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, John. Trump saying that Kasich is, quote, "littering up the process." He says it's time for him to drop out. He called it a disgrace.

And as for that rough week, he says he's had rough weeks before and he's come out on top. And he says he will come out on top again tomorrow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): GOP candidates making their final sprint to Wisconsin's primary tomorrow, barnstorming the battleground state. Trump admitting to having a rough week leading up to primary day after a slew of missteps in his campaign.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I took that answer. And I -- I didn't like it, because I think a lot of people didn't understand it.

CARROLL: At a town hall Sunday, the front-runner still struggling to articulate his shifting stance on abortion, after saying that, if abortion were outlawed, women who get the procedure should be punished.

TRUMP: Women go through a lot. They go through a tremendous punishment of themselves. And I didn't like it, because I wasn't sure people would understand it. So I clarified it, but it was just a clarification. And I think it was well-accepted.

CARROLL: In a move to stem disapproval from women voters, Trump also saying he regrets retweeting a mean-spirited photo of Ted Cruz's wife. But Cruz, who leads Trump in Wisconsin, says he's over it.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's gotten to the point where I could not care less about Donald Trump.

CARROLL: Fueling the firestorm, Trump still standing by his campaign manager, facing battery charges for an alleged assault on a reporter. The billionaire fighting to make last-minute gains, state with an aggressive anti-Trump movement. Trump taking aim at rivals Cruz...

TRUMP: He's a cheater. He's a cheater. He's a dirty, rotten cheat. Remember that. CARROLL: ... and John Kasich.

TRUMP: Everyone says he's such a nice guy. He's not a nice guy. He's a nasty guy, if you want to know the truth.

CARROLL: Trump doubling down on calls for the Ohio governor to leave the race, arguing that Kasich is taking his votes and has no chance of winning the nomination.

TRUMP: The problem is he's in the way of me. Not Cruz. He hurts me more than he hurts Cruz.

CARROLL: Another lingering issues: controversy over Trump's suggestion Japan and South Korea develop nuclear arms to protect themselves.

KASICH: You don't go running around talking about using nuclear weapons, period, end of story.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And Trump also coming under fire for those controversial statements he made about the U.S. economy, saying that the U.S. is headed for a recession and also talking about the stock market, saying that it's a terrible time to invest in the stock market.

Trump telling the crowd last night, Chris, that his daughter Ivanka asked him to be more presidential. And he told the crowd, "I'll start acting more presidential once I have the nomination" -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Let's bring in somebody who can help us make sense of that last statement and a few other ones. Let's discuss with Ed Brookover, senior adviser to Donald Trump's presidential campaign, former campaign manager for Dr. Ben Carson.

Well, you couldn't have joined a team at a better time, Mr. Brookover. Thank you for being on NEW DAY this morning. How much damage do you think Donald Trump did to himself last week?

ED BROOKOVER, SENIOR ADVISER TO TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, good morning, Chris.

Last week we turned a corner and started heading toward the nomination as we continue our march. I believe that Mr. Trump, once again, showed the American people that he is listening to them, and listening to their concerns. And as he continues to make his -- make his positions better well-known to the American public.

[07:05:10] CUOMO: I respect that you did not take the bait in my initial premise of that question. But I most pursue this point a little bit with you, Mr. Brookover. When we talk about galvanizing support and turning the corner, it seemed to be the first time that Donald Trump brought people on, the right and left, together against him, after what he said about punishing women who have abortions. What about that? BROOKOVER: Well, I think he clarified his position and made it clear

what he really meant when he made his first statement. And he's moved on from that as he's -- as he's showed the American public once again who he is and what he'll do.

CUOMO: Can you flip-flop your way through such sensitive issues if you want to be the leader of the United States of America? Should you not have one true course when it comes to your feelings on such an issue?

BROOKOVER: I would hardly call Mr. Trump a flip-flopper on this issue here. He's solidly pro-life, has been saying that this campaign, and that's where he's been; and that's where he'll remain.

CUOMO: So punish, don't punish? "Well, we have to look at it. Well, we know what the law is." What is that, in your estimation?

BROOKOVER: He was clarifying his position as a true pro-life candidate and letting people know that -- what he thought were women were -- what women were going through in this tough situation as they face this issue.

CUOMO: And the criticism about potential proliferation of nuclear activity, war-based activity in the Middle East, Japan, Korea, how are we supposed to take those comments?

BROOKOVER: I think that where he -- what he's trying to say is that we're in a new day when it comes to international politics, international relations, and that everybody needs to take a look. And we need to take a look about how we help other countries defend themselves.

CUOMO: Do you believe that there is any model that makes the word more safe that includes more nuclear weapons in the world?

BROOKOVER: I think that what we need to evaluate along the way is what our position is, what their position is, and how it is we can work together to make the world safer. I think we shouldn't rule anything out.

CUOMO: More nuclear weapons you wouldn't rule out? Most would.

BROOKOVER: Well, most would. But you know, in today's world, most of us have said, "Hey, let's don't attack people in the Middle East before -- because they're minding their own business." We've seen that's not true. We need to evaluate everything and with a new paradigm in mind.

CUOMO: What do you think is going to happen in Wisconsin? Some polls have Cruz up as many as 10. Just about every poll has him up. We've heard from the campaign, "Well, don't forget New Hampshire. You know, people there, we had a big win there. People didn't see it coming." Do you see that in the numbers in Wisconsin, a win for Donald Trump?

BROOKOVER: I think that Mr. Trump will be, the next couple days, making his case. Here's what we know about Wisconsin. The anti- -- the anti-Trump

forces have to sweep it to even have any hope of keeping Mr. Trump from a first ballot victory.

CUOMO: The concern with Wisconsin, you know, with people looking at Donald Trump's ability to get to 1,237. If he doesn't get any of the delegates there, or he doesn't get enough of them, then it becomes a much tighter race for him. How concerned are you there about getting to that number, avoiding a convention?

BROOKOVER: Once again, I question your premise. We have never, never had delegates in Wisconsin as part of our -- our path to getting past 1,237. In fact, the shoe is on the other foot. If the -- if Cruz does not sweep Wisconsin, that's just devastating for him.

CUOMO: Well, that's interesting to know. First of all, it's the first time I've heard that that the Trump team had assumed that it would go blank in Wisconsin. What about New York? How do you see your fates there?

BROOKOVER: We're in a little bit -- little bit different space in New York. Mr. Trump's doing well, been falling over 50 percent. And we expect to do very, very well there on April 19.

CUOMO: Do you believe -- if the numbers stay here -- you know, you have to look at it district by district. And it gets a little tricky in New York, right? Because you have, let's say, somewhere south of 500,000 Republican voters up for grabs. But the way they're stratified through all these different districts, you've really got to have a very retail operation in New York state, which is counterintuitive for a lot of people.

Are you concerned about your campaign's ability to go that micro in the New York race and make those phone calls sometimes to just dozens of people in a district?

BROOKOVER: Not at all. Part of that is because of Mr. Trump's popularity in New York. People in New York know Mr. Trump. They know him well. And that's why he's doing so well there.

CUOMO: Do you predict that you will get all of the delegates in New York? That would be bold.

BROOKOVER: Well, it would be. And I'll say we'll get very close.

CUOMO: John Kasich has found his way into the Trump crosshairs recently. Why? Isn't it good for Donald Trump to have three people in the race right now on some levels?

BROOKOVER: That's been one of the other parts of this campaign story which has just not been accurate.

CUOMO: How so?

BROOKOVER: As each person has fallen off, everybody says, "Well, now it's time for Mr. Trump, for the anti-Trump forces to show that he won't garner more support. Every time a candidate's dropped out, Mr. Trump's numbers have improved. Governor Kasich has no path to victory now, and he really shouldn't be running. He'll never get the eight states he needs to be even nominated from the floor when we get to Cleveland.

[07:10:13] CUOMO: So as you enter this campaign, do you believe that it is time for Mr. Trump -- he recently said, "As soon as I get the nomination, I'll be more presidential." Do you think it's time for him to be more presidential, more consistent, more thoughtful in what he says right now?

BROOKOVER: I think that Mr. Trump has been listening to the Republican electorate, as angry as they are at Washington, as we move along. And I trust his instincts on when it's time for him to have changed and move on with his message.

CUOMO: So nothing you heard last week gave you any concern -- cause for concern, Mr. Brookover?

BROOKOVER: No. We're on a path to victory with Cleveland. And then we'll turn our sights onto Hillary Clinton and her liberal leanings.

CUOMO: It's good to have you on NEW DAY, sir. Good luck in Wisconsin going forward. Always welcome here to talk about what matters.

BROOKOVER: Thanks for having me, Chris.

CUOMO: All right -- Mick.

PEREIRA: All right. To the Democrats now. A fierce fight is on between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, the rivals sparring over when their debate next will be in New York. All this as Sanders hopes to build on his momentum. Voters head to the polls in Wisconsin tomorrow.

CNN's Chris Frates is live in Wausau, Wisconsin, with more for us.

Good morning, again.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Michaela. D

So this debate over debates exploded on the campaign trail this weekend with the Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton campaigns blaming the other for refusing to lock down a date to debate in the Empire State. I know it's sounds a little Dr. Seussian, so let's break it down here.

The Clinton people said they proposed three different dates to debate Bernie Sanders in New York. Sanders rejected all three of those dates. Now, Sanders' folks said, "Hey, wait a minute here. Those dates don't work." For instance, one of those dates was tonight. Tonight, of course, the NCAA men's basketball final. The Sanders folks saying people want to watch basketball, not a presidential debate.

One of the other dates that was proposed, April 14. The Sanders folks saying, "We're planning a big rally in New York City that night. We're expecting 10 or 20,000 people. So thanks, but no thanks. We're a little busy."

So as the campaigns slugged it out, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, though, they were a little more circumspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm confident we'll work out at a time that's good for both of our schedules and when large numbers of people will be watching.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm confident that there will be. But I'm not -- I'm not the one negotiating it. That's going on between our campaigns. And I do know my campaign has been really trying to get a time that Senator Sanders's campaign would agree with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: So there you have Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton both saying they're confident that a debate will happen. In fact, Bernie Sanders' campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, telling me he thinks this will all be settled pretty soon.

But why is it so important? You have to look at the math. In New York there's about 250 delegates up for grabs April 19. That's second only to California. And Bernie Sanders is expected to do well here in Wisconsin tomorrow. He might even win the state. There's only 86 delegates at play here, so he's behind Hillary Clinton by about 240 delegates. He wants to chip into that lead. And he thinks if he can upset Hillary Clinton there, he may be able to do it.

And this debate, when and where it is, that's going to be huge as New York Democrats decide whether to pick Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton, John.

BERMAN: All right. Chris Frates for us in a cold-looking Wisconsin. Thanks so much, Chris.

Amtrak this morning running with delays between Philadelphia and Wilmington, Delaware. This after a deadly crash and derailment. One of its trains slammed into a backhoe on the tracks near Philadelphia. It killed two Amtrak construction workers.

CNN's Sara Ganim is live at the scene in Chester, Pennsylvania.

Sara, what's the latest?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Scheduling and human error among factors that investigators are considering as they continue to investigate this deadly crash that happened here on the tracks behind me.

The question lingers: how did an Amtrak train and Amtrak construction workers both not know they were on a path to collision? (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM (voice-over): A frightening moment on board this Amtrak train just before 8 a.m. Sunday morning when it smashed into a piece of heavy equipment on the tracks, causing the engine to derail. The train was en route from New York to Savannah, Georgia, hitting a backhoe and crashing just south of Philadelphia. Two Amtrak workers were killed and more than 30 people injured in the collision. Passengers describing the harrowing ordeal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I woke up to being thrown into the seat in front of him, and the window got blown out right beside me. And yes, it was -- there was a fireball. It was kind of a frightening few seconds. We didn't know what to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got off track. And then there was a big explosion. Then there was a fire. Then the windows bursted [SIC] out. And some people were cut up.

GANIM: The NTSB is now investigating, looking into whether a scheduling error was a factor.

RYAN FRIGO, NTSB INVESTIGATOR: We will be looking at mechanical operations, signal, track, human performance and survival factors.

GANIM: The derailment was the first of three incidents for Amtrak on Sunday. At about 3 p.m., a train struck a vehicle in Somonauk, Illinois, killing the 28-year-old driver. And then around 7:30 p.m., another accident when a train struck and injured a pedestrian in Bucks County, Pennsylvania.

[07:15:15] The incidents come nearly a year after the deadly derailment in Philadelphia, when eight people were killed and 200 injured due to speed on a curved section of track. As for yesterday's crash outside of Philly, the NTSB says it's still too early to know exactly what happened.

FRIGO: As of now, we have recovered the event data recorder, the forward-facing video and the inward-facing video from the locomotive to send to our laboratory in Washington, D.C.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: Now John, one passenger told CNN he knew something was wrong even before the impact. He could see dust outside the window, and it felt like they were riding on gravel. Of course, those accounts will be part of the investigation.

The good news this morning is that the -- we have seen trains go through here. This is the Northeast Corridor track; 750,000 people arrive between Washington and Boston every day. This is a key section of that here between Wilmington and Philadelphia. And we are seeing trains move through here this morning. Yesterday that was causing significant delays -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Sara Ganim for us in Chester, Pennsylvania. Coming upon NEW DAY, we're going to speak with a passenger who was on

that train. Former presidential candidate Steve Forbes, he was on board. He joins us 8 a.m. Eastern. He was not hurt, but he's got some stories about what went on there amidst the confusion. He will talk about that and also the 2016 presidential race.

CUOMO: All right. Listen up. We have winter weather advisories in effect today from Michigan to southern New England. Some areas could see up to eight inches of snow. This as high winds leave thousands without power in the east. A couple was killed in Massachusetts after a tree crushed their car.

PEREIRA: Some breaking news this morning: a series of electrical fires in a boiler-room ceiling, shutting down Terminal B at Newark Liberty International Airport, forcing hundreds to evacuate. That terminal reopened in the last hour. We're told only one gate remains closed. Airport officials say there should be little to no impact on operations today. Thankfully, there were no injuries reported.

BERMAN: A Chihuahua is waking up in a San Francisco animal shelter after taking police on a wild chase. This actually happened. The dog bolted across the Bay Bridge Sunday, forcing traffic between Oakland and San Francisco to grind to a halt while the California Highway Patrol gave chase. You can see it right there, a somewhat low-speed chase. Eventually, they did catch up to the dog. They found a tag but with no identification. It's not clear where he was coming from.

PEREIRA: He couldn't get the token into the...

CUOMO: You've got nothing on that, J.B.

BERMAN: I've got nothing.

PEREIRA: He couldn't get the token into the subway thing to take BART.

BERMAN: They don't have EZ Pass, apparently.

PEREIRA: Or he didn't have EZ Pass.

CUOMO: Not -- do you want to stir the pot a little?

PEREIRA: OK.

CUOMO: Not the most friendly of breeds, by the way.

BERMAN: Why do you have to go negative on Chihuahuas.

CUOMO: I'll tell you why. The Chee-hu-ah-hu-ah is a greatly misunderstood...

PEREIRA: the Chee-hu-ah-hu-ah?

CUOMO: ... animal. I'll tell you why.

PEREIRA: Who is this man? CUOMO: That's the correct pronunciation, by the way. The Chee-hu-ah- hu-ah, not always the friendliest of dogs. I have a story. Would you like to hear it now or in the break?

PEREIRA: of course you have a story.

CUOMO: So...

BERMAN: Patron's (ph) going...

PEREIRA: Make yourself comfortable.

CUOMO: My kid went to pet, and the lady says it's a very nice dog. The dog had a suit on, OK, first of all. The Chihuahua had a little dog suit on. The kid pets the dog, very nice. I go to pet the dog and it latches onto me like a python. Like a python.

PEREIRA: That might be more about you than the dog.

CUOMO: I'll tell you what. You know what it looked like? It looked like a baby panda, this dog. And that's the only thing that I can account for that kind of violence.

PEREIRA: Oh, lord.

BERMAN: Pandaphobe Chris Cuomo.

CUOMO: Chee-hu-ah-hu-ah, everybody knows that's how you say it.

So another provocative question this morning: what's up with the DDD, the Democratic debate debacle? Who is stalling more? The Clinton campaign says Sanders has snubbed dates leading up to the critical New York primary. Is that true? We're going to ask one of his top aides, next.

Everyone knows not the nicest dog in the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: New developments this morning in the race for president. Just moments ago Hillary Clinton said, yes, she will debate Bernie Sanders. The date she wants to do it, though, is April 15. So will Bernie Sanders agree to that date?

Joining us this morning is Tad Devine, senior adviser for Bernie Sanders, and that campaign.

Tad Devine, what of it? April 15 on "Good Morning America." Will Bernie Sanders be there?

TAD DEVINE, SENIOR ADVISER, BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN: Well, we would prefer to have a primetime debate. And we've offered the 10th, the 11th, the 12th and 13th.

When this whole agreement came about, it was in New Hampshire. Hillary Clinton wanted a debate. She was trailing very badly. We said fine. We'll have a debate. Bernie believes in debates, so he said, "We'll have three more after that." We were supposed to have these debates on -- you know, not on a Friday or Saturday night. That was expressly agreed to. She wants to debate -- you know, they were supposed to be in primetime and, you know, broadcast by networks. That's what we agreed to.

So we've offered four days. They, you know, haven't found a day when they can be there. They have fund-raisers. We have rallies. OK, I know we're both busy. So but hopefully they can debate in primetime with us and let people see the two candidates.

BERMAN: So you pitched four debates. She's pitching three. Let's put that up right now. April 4, which is today. That's not going to happen. April 14. That's at night. That could be in primetime. And then there's April 15. So the 14th and 15th, they're out as far as you're concerned?

DEVINE: Well, listen, on the 14th, we're going to have a rally. We've got a permit. It's the only night, you know, that Washington Square is available in New York. Our campaign is about big rallies. So, you know, we're going to have a big rally that night. We've got a permit for it. That's the only night that that venue is available.

So hopefully we can find time. We've offered four nights that week. I mean, maybe they can move a fund raiser. OK? So I mean, you know, it's a lot of squabble about things. I thought both candidates yesterday were very adult when they talked about this. And hopefully, we can find a way to come to an agreement for a time for a debate so a lot of people, the maximum number of people can hear both candidates.

BERMAN: All right. So no new news on that this morning. There is news this morning in "The New York Times." A really interesting article about some of the inner discussions that took place in your campaign over the last several months, including perhaps some regrets about what you all did and did not do early on in the race.

[07:25:10] And you're quoted all over this article. Among other things, you say that maybe it would have been better had Bernie Sanders spent more time in Iowa. You got so close there. Instead of spending so much time in New Hampshire, where you won in a blowout. What's your biggest regret, looking back?

DEVINE: Well, John, I learned a long time ago that you never get ahead looking over your shoulder.

BERMAN: OK.

DEVINE: And I know that "The New York Times" was determined to write a story about the end of the campaign, but what's happened in the last couple of weeks, I think, has pushed them to not write the obituary but instead to look back and look back, look back. We're not looking back.

What -- I'm very proud of what this campaign has done. And particularly proud of Bernie Sanders's vision for what this campaign could do. You know, when he got into this thing, the skepticism surrounding his candidacy was almost unbelievable. That he had a vision for where we could take this country and a message that has resounded all through this country. I think we have a real good chance. I think we have a path to victory, and that's what we're going to focus on.

BERMAN: You said in that article, had you been able to win in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada, it would all be different. True?

DEVINE: Well, yes. It's obviously -- I mean, listen, we tried to win those three states. And when we didn't, after Nevada, we decided on a different course. It was a longer, tougher road to the nomination.

But I think we have a path to the nomination, because Bernie Sanders is demonstrating he is the strongest candidate. He is winning general election match-ups decisively against Donald Trump. He's the only one who beats all the Republicans.

I think this is important to Democrats, particularly super delegates. So if we can continue to win, if he has a good day tomorrow, we're going to make this case New York, all the way to California, and then we'll ask the Democratic Party to make a serious decision. Who's the strongest candidate? I think if they look at it in those terms, they're going to pick Bernie Sanders.

BERMAN: You brought up super delegates. Right now Bernie Sanders is getting crushed in the race for super delegates. We have -- you know, we have some math up here right now. Hillary Clinton, 483 super delegates say they're supporting her. Bernie Sanders just has 31. You can see you are losing badly right now in that race. How do you turn it around?

DEVINE: Well, I think we turn it around by winning with voters. You know, the super delegates in 2008, many of them over 120 of them, changed from Hillary Clinton to Barack Obama because then-Senator Obama demonstrated he would be a very strong general election candidate.

I think Bernie Sanders is in the process of making that same case to the super delegates. And if we continue to succeed with voters all the way through California and New Jersey and the other states in the end, I think the super delegates will step back and say, "What's the right thing to do?"

And I think the right thing to do is obvious. We need a candidate who can be strong. Hillary Clinton in her own state of New York in a Quinnipiac poll last week has a net unfavorable -- 45 favorable, 49 unfavorable -- with general election voters in her home state. OK? Bernie Sanders won 71 percent of vote the last time he ran in Vermont.

BERMAN: She's beating you, though.

DEVINE: So people are going to look at that.

BERMAN: She's beating you in her home state, though, right now.

DEVINE: She is. And we're looking forward to campaigning there. We've got a couple of weeks. And we've seen where Bernie is on the ground. We saw this in Michigan. We saw it in Iowa. He closed a 15- point gap in Iowa in just a month.

So, you know, where Bernie gets in there and delivers his message, voters respond. That's because he generates excitement. That's because he brings massive numbers of people together. We had 18,500 people in the Bronx last week, in New York. That's three times as many people as came to Hillary Clinton's announcement in New York.

BERMAN: All right.

DEVINE: So I think that's what we need. I think Bernie is the only guy who can do it.

BERMAN: Tad Devine, thanks so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate it, Tad.

DEVINE: Great to be with you.

BERMAN: Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Could Wisconsin reshape the Republican race? If Ted Cruz defeats Donald Trump, what does that do to the odds of a contested convention? We're going to get answers, or try to, from the RNC.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)