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RNC Braces For Contested Convention; Interview with Sean Spicer; Trump Calls For Kasich To Drop Out; Cruz & Sanders Lead In Wisconsin Polls; Cruz Launches First Attack Ad Against Kasich. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 04, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:33:00] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Federal investigators are now at the scene of that deadly Amtrak train crash and derailment near Philadelphia. The train collided with a backhoe on the tracks, killing two Amtrak construction workers, injuring dozens on the train. Investigators say they have recovered the event data recorder, along with forward-facing and inward-facing video from the train. They are now beginning to piece together what exactly when wrong.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: A U.S. coalition airstrike has taken out a prominent leader of an al Qaeda splinter group in Syria. Abo Fares served as a spokesman for the Al-Nusra Front, which has gone after Rebel groups in Northern Syrian in recent months for their close connections with the U.S. It is believed that this man once worked with Osama bin Laden. Twenty other militants were also killed in Sunday's strike.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New calls this morning from battled Alabama Governor Robert Bentley to step down. A bill for a voter-led recall is expected to be drafted as soon as today. State lawmakers are back in session there. The Republican governor has been under fire after phone recordings surfaced last week revealing sexually explicit conversations between the governor and a political adviser. That adviser has since resigned but questions remain over whether state funds were used to conceal this relationship.

CUOMO: All right, so Ted Cruz is heading into tomorrow's Wisconsin primary with a double-digit lead in some polls. A Cruz victory could be a game-changer as party leaders brace for the possibility of a contested convention.

Joining us now is Sean Spicer, chief strategist and communications director for the RNC. Brother Spicer, good to have you on this morning.

SEAN SPICER, CHIEF STRATEGIST & COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, RNC: Good morning. Thank you, good morning. Happy opening day for the Sox. Berman's excited, I know.

CUOMO: That's right. The Yankees, the most storied franchise in baseball history, does take the field today. Thank you for recognizing their greatness. Stop shaking your head, Spicer.

SPICER: I -- that's the problem. CUOMO: All right, so check some boxes for us. We hear that the Trump campaign said to the RNC, you've got to push Kasich out. He's hurting me. It's time for him to go. He can't win. He doesn't meet the 40(b) rule. Get him out. Is that true, and if so, what is the Party's response?

SPICER: Well, I'm not going to get into the details of a private conversation between the chairman and any of the candidates, but I will say that the RNC has never and will never tell any candidate to get in or out of the race. That's always going to be a decision up to them and to their team, depending on the level of support and resources they have to continue.

CUOMO: 40(b), 40(b), 40(b), you keep hearing it. This is something that the rules committee can or cannot extend into the next convention. What's your take?

SPICER: Well, I think there's a lot of conversation about 40(b), but if you keep going down the list you get to 42, which 42 says all of the rules of this convention are for this convention and are temporary. When the rules committee of this convention -- of these delegates that are elected -- sit down, they will craft the rules for this convention.

[07:35:00] The 2012 delegates, that were largely made up of Mitt Romney, crafted the delegates for that. The McCain delegates in 2008 crafted a rules package for that. And so the delegates of this, which are largely going to be Cruz and Trump delegates, will sit down, elect members to be on the rules committee, and then craft rules for this convention as it's always been since the 1800's.

CUOMO: All right, you know what the pushback is. Ron Paul is celebrating, running around saying the chickens are coming home to roost, to the GOP. That this was what the party wanted -- to keep him out, and now that it may work against someone that the party wants to keep in, John Kasich.

They want to remove this rule which essentially says you need to have a certain number of delegates and a certain selection of eight states, and Kasich won't meet that rule so he should be exempted from the convention. And now, Ron Paul and others are saying the convention committee, the GOP, they want Kasich in so they're going to change the rules in their favor. Is that fair criticism?

SPICER: No, it's not, because there's two issues at stake here. One is that no matter how you slice it you need 1,237 delegates to become the nominee of this party. Plain and simple, no exceptions. Whoever gets the majority of the delegates wins.

The second thing, the party doesn't want anything. The party's job is to administer a fair and transparent process. These delegates have been elected at the grassroots level throughout the country in states and congressional districts. It is their job to go in on behalf of the candidates that were selected by them and argue for what they want as a rules package and, ultimately, come out with a nominee of our party. But it is those people -- those delegates that have been elected by Republican voters that will decide. The party is simply the arbiter -- the people that have put on the show to ensure that these delegates have a system to vote.

CUOMO: Two "is it trues" for you. Is it true that the conversations between Reince Priebus and the Trump campaign, Donald Trump specifically, were left with an understanding that he will support the GOP nominee coming out of the convention?

SPICER: I think Mr. Trump clearly talked about the fact that we need to be unified as a party and go out and win. He understands, like all the candidates, that only a unified Republican Party is going to defeat the Democrats. So again, as I said earlier, I'm not going to get into the discussion but I think every one of these candidates understands that anything less than a unified Republican Party would give the Democrats a huge hand up going into November.

CUOMO: Is it true that party officials are planning extensively for a contested convention and that that is certainly the momentum of the party right now?

SPICER: Well, as we get closer through some of these more contests. Today is Wisconsin. We've got 42 delegates, then you've got 95 up in New York. As we go through them and it's clear that someone may not get to 1,237, of course we're going to continue to take additional steps to prepare for this open convention.

Look, I think I said it to you before Chris, we're a party that's had a two hurricanes the last two conventions. We prepare for everything. We're going to ensure that we're ready for this and that it's an open, fair, and transparent process that if we go into this open convention that all of the intensity and enthusiasm that we've in our party is going to be there for the world to watch and that we come out as a party ready to win.

CUOMO: Well, to extend your metaphor, there are certainly clouds gathering over the site of where the convention will be. This will certainly be a very watched convention process. We all know that. Sean Spicer, thank you very much for coming on NEW DAY to make the case for us this morning.

SPICER: You bet, go Sox.

PEREIRA: Well played. He did that at the very end. Well played, Mr. Spicer.

CUOMO: Sean Spicer grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory after that interview right there.

PEREIRA: I might have to start doing that.

BERMAN: Go, Sox.

PEREIRA: That was a strong move. That was a strong move.

CUOMO: Look at John Berman's tie -- with the little Red Sox tie on.

PEREIRA: If you want to see something really great go to Facebook and see what he did with his beard over the vacation time.

All right, ahead here on NEW DAY, former presidential candidate Steve Forbes was on that packed Amtrak train when it suddenly crashed and derailed. What was going through his mind when it all happened? You'll hear his account when he joins us live, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:43:00] BERMAN: Twenty-four hours until a big moment in this campaign where there could be big changes and surprise. The Wisconsin primary is tomorrow with Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders leading in the polls, so what will happen and why? One man who knows the answer, Washington bureau chief of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Craig Gilbert. Craig, thanks so much for joining us.

Let's look at the Democratic race, first of all, where the polls do show Bernie Sanders with a slight lead right now over Hillary Clinton. The question is why? Why is this the case in Wisconsin where Hillary Clinton was able to prevail in Illinois, she was able to win in Ohio. What's going on here?

CRAIG GILBERT, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL: Well, for one thing it's an open primary, so independents can vote and Bernie Sanders has consistently done a lot better with independents than Hillary Clinton. It's also a state that doesn't have a big African-American vote, which is not good for Hillary Clinton.

And it's a state where there's always been an audience within the Democratic Party for the kind of candidate that Bernie Sanders is with a really, really progressive message. And he's obviously appealing to both independents and young voters who also have a history of turning out in Wisconsin.

BERMAN: You know, it's interesting. You look at Wisconsin -- I know it sounds simplistic but the Republicans are really, really Republican and the Democrats are really, really Democrat. It's a heavily polarized state, so if you look at the Republican race right now where Ted Cruz is leading Donald Trump, the question is why is this happening? It's not just the Donald Trump stumbles, is it?

GILBERT: No. Donald Trump has had chronically below average numbers in Wisconsin for months, and if you look at this poll that CBS just did, when Republican voters were asked what should the Republican Party do if Donald Trump keeps winning primaries, and 50 percent of them said try to deny him the nomination at the convention. And only 30 percent said kind of get behind Donald Trump.

So, that's one indication of how this state is kind of soft for Donald Trump. And I think one of the wildcards in this race is it's really all been about Trump but you've got both Kasich and Cruz hanging out there. And the Kasich vote is going to really have an impact statewide and it's also going to have an impact at the congressional district level. Yesterday, you had both the Cruz and Trump camps saying Kasich's

presence in the race was hurting them. He should get out of the race. And it's hard to imagine that both those things can be true at the same time.

[07:45:00] BERMAN: Well, it's funny. They both can't be right, so who's more right here? Who does Kasich hurt more, Trump or Cruz?

GILBERT: Well, he will have a much better clue, obviously, after the election. It's going to be really interesting to look at that. You could argue that in one sense Kasich is competing with Trump for more moderate voters. The polling suggests that Ted Cruz is in command among the most conservative voters in the race.

On the other hand, I think we can assume that both Kasich voters and Cruz voters have one thing in common, which is that they don't like Donald Trump.

BERMAN: The other interesting thing about Wisconsin is that the establishment, as it were, may not be as much as of a bad thing as it is in other states that we saw in this election cycle? Why? Because the national Republican establishment is from Wisconsin. You have the RNC chair, Reince Priebus. You have Paul Ryan, who's the Speaker of House --

GILBERT: Yes.

BERMAN: -- who's from Wisconsin. You also have Scott Walker who's more of a national figure who remains somewhat popular among Republican voters.

GILBERT: Yes, and there's definitely a lot of anti-establishment feeling here. I don't think Wisconsin is immune to that. But not only are all these national Republican figures from Wisconsin, but Republicans have been having their way in Wisconsin. So, I don't think there's as much frustration, maybe, as there is in some other states. They've been dominant. They've had a stranglehold on the state legislature. Obviously, Scott Walker was elected in 2010 and won those three elections in 2010, 2012, and 2014.

So, there may not be the same level of frustration in Wisconsin. You noted how polarized the state is and I think that creates some solidarity among Republican elites and Republican voters because of just the sheer level of conflict with Democrats the state has just been ward over perennially for many years.

BERMAN: You're based in Washington. You cover the nation, as well, so does what happen in Wisconsin tomorrow -- does it stay in Wisconsin? Or, if Sanders is able to win there, if Ted Cruz is able to win there, will that by a jumping off point for both those campaigns to perhaps shake things up going forward?

GILBERT: Yes, I think that's a great question in both contests. There, obviously, is going to be some sort of psychological momentum effects coming out of Wisconsin because it's all by itself there on the calendar. We've had this big run-up and we also have a two-week period before New York coming out of Wisconsin, so it does have an impact.

But you also, I think, have to keep in mind that there's local factors -- there's the kind of Wisconsin factors at work here. It's a very distinctive political culture. We've talked about some of that, and so I think it's certainly a different political culture than New York. Donald Trump is going to, certainly, have an easier time in New York than he had in Wisconsin.

Obviously, New York has a lot of distinctive characteristics for the Democratic race with Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton both being from New York, so I think New York is going to look different than Wisconsin. But certainly the stop Trump people are looking to Wisconsin, which is a great opportunity for them, to really change the storyline about Donald Trump, coming out of here.

BERMAN: Craig Gilbert, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

GILBERT: Great to be with you.

BERMAN: We want to know what your take is. Tweet us @NewDay or post your comment on facebook.com/NewDay.

PEREIRA: All right, so will Ted Cruz come out with a win in Wisconsin tomorrow? Why does the Texas senator seem more concerned about John Kasich? We'll try to get some answers from the Cruz campaign, next, for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:53:00] CUOMO: Senator Ted Cruz is betting big on a Wisconsin primary win tomorrow. The polls are on his side. Most have Cruz leading Donald Trump by double digits. Now, if he does win in Wisconsin, what does that mean for a Cruz path to the nomination? Let's ask the national spokesperson for the Ted Cruz campaign, Ron Nehring.

Now, Ron, you can say well, that's obvious mitigation but the Trump camp is saying so what, we never thought we were going to win Wisconsin. Even if Cruz wins he can't get to 1,237. This is much ado about nothing. Your response, sir?

RON NEHRING, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON FOR TED CRUZ CAMPAIGN: Well, if it's so much to do about nothing then why is Donald Trump spending so much time campaigning in Wisconsin? Why did he up his advertising budget in Wisconsin? Why did he add three additional campaign stops to Wisconsin?

This is just more of the expectations game that the Donald Trump campaign is trying to deal with as their campaign has so much of the air coming out of the balloon. Donald Trump has had a really, really bad two weeks.

We're closing that delegate gap with our win in Utah, with great results in Colorado and North Dakota from conventions over the course of the last couple of days, while Donald Trump looks forward to not having a very good night in Wisconsin and having his path to 1,237 become much, much more complicated as a result of these Cruz victories.

CUOMO: They say no, it's all about the northeast. We're coming to New York. There's a chance that we're going to get over that 50 percent, and even on a district-by-district basis we may get all 95 in New York. We can get Rhode Island, we can get the other New Englanders, and then we're going to be right on the precipice of 1,237. What does Ted Cruz do in New York where that New York values thing may be hanging over his head?

NEHRING: I'm born and raised in New York. Everybody knows what Sen. Cruz was referring to with respect to New York values, and he's referring to New York City liberals who elected a very deeply unpopular mayor who moved this city in the wrong direction, both in terms of economic policy, security policy, and the like. That, of course, is what Sen. Cruz was referring to there.

And since New York is awarded on a delegate-by-delegate basis by congressional district, Long Island politics and Upstate New York politics are very different than New York City politics.

CUOMO: No, true, true, true.

[07:55:00] NEHRING: So, there are opportunities in New York, but at the same time it's Donald Trump's home state. He would be expected to do well there and it's a long ballgame. We're at the bottom of the fifth and we've got a lot more innings to go.

CUOMO: You make an interesting point there. That big, juicy number of 95 does belie a very intricate process and you look about 500,000 GOP voters, give or take. You'll have to see what the registration rolls are like now. What kind of bump there is in enthusiasm and maybe crossovers into the party? Do you have to be Republican to vote?

But it does, potentially, play to the Cruz campaign's strength of retail politicking. Working the phones to get into these discreet districts. How much resource are you putting into this?

NEHRING: I'm not going to raise the curtain on exactly dollar-for- dollar. You'll forgive me if we don't exactly publish all of our campaign plans on CNN. But the reality is that the Cruz campaign has a strong campaign organization that goes down to the congressional district level in the states where we're competing, and we're competing everywhere.

My state of California -- we vote last in this process, so we've been organizing in California since August. The Trump campaign has barely figured out that there's a part of the country west of the Rocky Mountains so that certainly plays to our strength.

But also, what's more important is that the Republican Party is uniting behind Sen. Cruz because of his message. His message of jobs, freedom, and security, which is what we're focused on like a laser beam right now. That's where the heart of the Republican Party is. And so it's not just about anti-Trump or stopping Donald Trump. It's

also about electing a Republican nominee who will put solid Republican ideas into action and that's what the people in Wisconsin are looking for, as well in the northeast and everywhere else that has yet to vote.

CUOMO: Well, it seems it's also about stopping Gov. Kasich. You've got your new attack ad out there going after him, saying that -- the accusation is that the governor basically is guilty of cronyism. Shady financial ties to a company that you say benefited, after he got into office, with a money tie.

The question becomes do you believe -- that's an accusation that came up before, actually, ironically, by Democrats against Gov. Kasich. Didn't work then. Why should it work now? Do you believe that that's the way to campaign?

NEHRING: Well, it's a couple of things. One is that John Kasich is clearly a spoiler in this race. He has no path to victory whatsoever -- none. He's won a total of one state so far and he's barely a presence in many of the states have yet to go. So he's a spoiler. Everybody knows that. And he hasn't been scrutinized in terms of his record as governor. We're providing some of that scrutiny right now so the voters can make an educated choice.

But I think what's most significant about what we see with John Kasich is that he repeatedly would just endlessly say that well, in the Midwest he's going to do great. The Midwest is where he's from, and so on and so forth. He's not doing well there. In one Midwestern state after another, like one state after another in the country, John Kasich doesn't win.

And it's hard to claim that he's the most electable candidate when the voters are not choosing him. When you've lost 27 times it's hard to say that you're the most electable candidate in the Republican Party, so it is time for him to step aside and stop trying to be a spoiler for Donald Trump.

CUOMO: Mr. Nehring, thank you for coming on NEW DAY to make the case, as always.

NEHRING: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. So, there's a lot of news going on right now. We're right on the doorstep of what happens in Wisconsin. That's going to have big implications. There's also this deadly Amtrak train derailment to tell you about, so let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me get rid of the other two and then I'll be presidential, OK?

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I could not care less about Donald Trump.

TRUMP: He's a dirty, rotten cheat. Remember that.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A vote for me is a vote for John Kasich.

TRUMP: It's good if he gets out. I don't want him in.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Secretary Clinton owes us an apology.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we're hearing is truly scary.

SANDERS: You are looking at the strongest Democratic candidate.

CLINTON: It matters who's leading our country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was kind of a frightening few seconds. We didn't know what to do.

BERMAN: Two killed, dozens injured in a new Amtrak derailment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The windows are blown out right beside me.

LINTON HOLMES, AMTRAK PASSENGER: We got off track and then there was like a big explosion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning, welcome to your new day. It Is Monday, April 4th. It is now just before 8:00 in the east. Alisyn is off. J.B. is with us and Michaela, as always. I have to start relishing these --

PEREIRA: I know, the countdown's on. A month left.

CUOMO: I get a little misty, but that could be the cologne that you're wearing.

PEREIRA: No.

BERMAN: Now you're sucking up. Now that she's --

CUOMO: This is real. This real my fugazi (ph) friend. This is real.

BERMAN: Good luck.

CUOMO: Ted Cruz and Donald Trump ready for battle in Wisconsin, hoping to capture the state's 42 delegates tomorrow. Trump does trail Cruz in most polls, many of them by double digits. And if he leaves that state empty-handed tomorrow night, the odds of a contested convention up, up, up my friend.

BERMAN: Donald Trump -- he does face an uphill battle in Wisconsin.