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Axelrod: Trump "Can't Hack It' Under Pressure; Clinton & Sanders Spar Over Debates; Trump Calls for Kasich to Drop Out. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 04, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] KAREN FINNEY, SENIOR SPOKESWOMAN , HILLARY FOR AMERICA: Free to support Secretary Clinton, but it's OK for the people who work in the industry that support Senator Sanders. And, more importantly, what the fact checks have also pointed out that she - the percentage of money that actually she's received from folks in the - who work for oil and fossil the fuels, if you will, it's - it's a very small percentage. So to say - and yet this is someone who has been very strong on climate change issues, as she was in the Senate, as she has put forward a, you know, a strong platform here in the campaign. It's like when he makes these charges about her being beholden to Wall Street and yet she's got ads being run against her by some of the hedge fund guys, by some of the Wall Street guys, and he's got no proof that says here's a place where we can see directly, you know, that they were - that they influenced her in any way, shape or form.

That's the problem, John. And I think that was the frustration that you saw. It's like, just leveling these broad-based charges that fit a certain narrative that you're trying to, you know, put out there. You know that's - no, we've got to stand up to that, push back on that, what's wrong.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, perhaps - perhaps you can do it on a debate stage either the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th or 15th. We're clearing our calendar.

FINNEY: Perhaps. You got it.

BERMAN: Karen Finney, thanks for being with us.

FINNEY: Thanks.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: That's harder than trying to schedule a lunch with you, John Berman. My goodness.

BERMAN: I'm not free any of those days.

PEREIRA: All right, good to know.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Michaela (INAUDIBLE) to pay.

PEREIRA: Oh, that's a good tactic.

All right, 31 minutes past the hour. Donald Trump trying to put a nightmare week in the rear view, but are voters willing to forgive and forget? David Axelrod has his take on Trump's ability to bounce back. That will be next on NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:35:33] CUOMO: The Republican frontrunner remains Donald Trump. And he is very happy today is Monday because he is very much trying to get past last week. This is a new week, but will he be haunted? In a new op-ed, CNN's senior political commentator and former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod, writes the following. "In the last week" - would you like to read this.

BERMAN: "Under a front-runner's scrutiny and pressure, Trump looked like a guy who simply can't hack it." Thus ends the reading.

CUOMO: Oh, that's good.

David joins us now. The Ax.

How do you defend that comment? Donald Trump says a couple of things that you could make the case have helped him in the past. Why is it different this time?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Because I think the tests get harder as you go along. As people begin to focus on you as a potential nominee and a potential president they scrutinize your word differently. Donald Trump did very well speaking his mind, saying whatever he felt like saying at the front end of this campaign. People found that refreshing. I think it exhilarates his supporters.

But, you know, Chris, presidents can't say whatever they want to say. Presidents - when presidents speak they can send army's marching, they can send markets tumbling. And so their words matter. And to be in a position where, for example, on an issue like abortion you have five different renditions of your position in a week, gives people pause. I don't think it does any damage with his core supporters who are deeply, deeply committed, but I think he makes it very difficult for him to grow his support. And you say well Monday's a new week for Donald Trump. Tuesday's another primary for Donald Trump and it may make this another uncomfortable week for him.

BERMAN: You say it's an MRI on the soul, campaigns are, particularly long campaigns, and sometimes it's good for Americans to see how these candidates face challenges. Donald Trump is now facing a challenge. He's had what many people consider to be his worst week of the campaign so far. So, David Axelrod, who's advised many campaigns, what's your advice to Donald Trump? How does he turn this around? Can he?

AXELROD: Well, I think he has to proceed on the notion that he can and that this is a bump in the road, but he has to show some level of stability and some level of maturity and it's difficult to do that and throw - without throwing away that - that appeals to his supporters, which is the sense of spontaneity, the sense of telling it like it is. So I think he has to find that balance. But it's going to be difficult.

I do think presidential campaigns, more than any issues, are really a test of how you deal with pressure. That's what people want. I think back to the 2008 campaign, when I was working for Barack Obama, and he had challenges along the way. The Reverend wright controversy and some others. And the way he dealt with them was the way in which people came to believe that he could handle the pressures of the presidency. Donald Trump looked very unsure last week. He looked very clumsy in his handling of these issues. And I think it gave people, not his core supporters again, but others pause when they thought about him sitting in that office doing the most difficult job on the planet.

CUOMO: So if Wisconsin goes the way that the polls are suggesting, which means Cruz wins handily, how big a deal is that? We just heard from someone this morning, one of the new advisors on the Trump campaign said, they never thought they'd do well in Wisconsin. That was news to the ears on this side of the screen right now. What do you make of the implications?

AXELROD: You know, I used to be a reporter at city hall - I was a city hall bureau chief for "The Tribune" in Chicago and there was a great old reporter there named Harry Golden Jr. (ph), who, when people said stuff like that, he'd just snap his notebook shut and he would say, that's not even true enough to print.

The Trump people had great hopes for Wisconsin, and they should have because it's an industrial state, a blue collar, large blue collar population. He does well with those blue collar voters. It's not the kind of evangelical state that Iowa was where Ted Cruz had a natural constituency.

There were a lot of reasons to believe that Wisconsin was going to be a good state for Donald Trump. And the fact that he's struggling there is an indication of problems. If he doesn't do well tomorrow night, I think what it means is the probability of a contested convention goes up significantly. And that is what all of those who are opposing him, both the conservative movement in the Republican Party and the establishment are working for. They want to stop him from getting that 1,237 and throw that convention open.

[08:40:07] BERMAN: On the Democratic side right now there is a debate over debates. Having been through a few campaigns, David, does anyone ever win these debate over debates? You know, who's better poised to emerge from this discussion right now?

AXELROD: Well, let me just say, to paraphrase a great president, Abraham Lincoln, the world will little note nor long remember what has been spoken about the debate over debates. I don't think anybody really cares. I mean there may be some folks within the two campaigns who care. But I don't think the average voter is sitting there riveted by the debate over debates. And in certain ways, if you're a Democrat, you should take comfort that this is the big issue that is dividing Democrats when you look at what's going on, on the other side of the aisle.

CUOMO: Very interesting. It will be interesting to see what happens when the race does come home here for the Democrats to New York.

Ax, (INAUDIBLE), as well.

AXELROD: I'm sure it will be - I'm sure it will be gentile as New York races always are, Chris.

CUOMO: We see - get to see Bernie from Brooklyn for the first time when he comes here to New York. He'll remind everybody of that, to be sure.

Ax, thank you very much.

AXELROD: All right. Good to see you guys.

CUOMO: The op-ed getting a lot of wattage and deservedly so.

BERMAN: It's good.

CUOMO: Thanks for helping us this morning.

PEREIRA: Mr. Ax to you.

CUOMO: I know. One of the best nicknames in the business.

PEREIRA: I know. It really is.

CUOMO: Yes.

PEREIRA: All right, hey, we've got a big change to tell you about in the friendly skies. An airline merger we're going to tell you about. That's coming up next on NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:45:24] PEREIRA: All right. Here we go with the five things on a Monday. Today is Monday.

Donald Trump and Ted Cruz campaigning across Wisconsin ahead of tomorrow's critical winner-take-all primary. Cruz leads in the polls by ten points.

Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton locked in a bit of a battle over when the New York debate should take place. In the meantime, Sanders is hoping to ride his momentum to victory in Wisconsin as voters there head to the polls tomorrow.

Amtrak will offer limited service today as federal investigators try to work out why an Amtrak train derailed after crashing into a backhoe. That backhoe operator and his supervisor were killed. Dozens on the train were injured.

Alaska Air beating out Jet Blue in a bidding war for Virgin America. The Alaska Air group is set to acquire Richard Branson's U.S. airline in a $2.6 billion takeover.

So it's Villanova and North Carolina battling for the NCAA basketball championship tonight. It's the first appearance in a title game for the Wildcats since '85.

We should also point out, in the world of sports, just into CNN, the New York Yankees postponing Opening Day today because of the weather. They will make up and play that game tomorrow.

For more on the five things, be sure to visit newdayCNN.com.

Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Mick. Please. Donald Trump says he is ready to show John Kasich the door. What does the Ohio governor say about this? We have a member of team Kasich showing up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:27] CUOMO: All right. We are hearing it from Ted Cruz. We are hearing it from Donald Trump. Ohio Governor John Kasich should get out of the race. What does his team think about that?

Let's bring in Tom Ridge, former Homeland Security Director, former Governor of Pennsylvania, national co-chair of Kasich for America.

So Governor, what is your answer to that? Why should John Kasich stay in the race? He can't win, say his opponents.

TOM RIDGE, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: Well, first of all, it's good to be with you again, Chris.

CUOMO: Always.

RIDGE: I think both Ted Cruz and Donald, particularly Donald, he had a really bad week last week. And he's probably having a bad -- Wisconsin tomorrow. I think both of them need to understand it is a competitive engagement here. It isn't over until you get to 1,237. One might say that the convention is actually halftime. So I think both of them ought to man up. There are no short cuts to victory in the Democratic process. John is going to compete up until and through the convention. And frankly, I think there is a subtle concern that they haven't project, but they know very well because they looked at their own internal polls, John Kasich, of the three, is the only one that can trump Hillary in the general election. So I understand their concern and their anxiety, but we ought to let the process play out.

CUOMO: But it is unusual, right? I don't think there is anything subtle about it, Governor, to be honest. I think they both think that there is concern if not against Hillary Clinton, against them within their own party with people like yourself who represent the establishment and the elders of the GOP, they may go to John Kasich during the convention.

But how odd to see all of the races before the convention as somehow irrelevant. Because that is what it would mean for John Kasich. He'd go in only having performed really well in Ohio and then yet he gets a whole fresh start at the convention. Is that fair?

RIDGE: Well I think, again, when you say his experience (ph) (inaudible) starting to sound like Donald Trump, and I know you never want to sound like that. Bottom line is is that the convention is the halfway point in the process and you have got this long, grueling, painful process, individual candidates slugging it out to see if someone can get -- hit the threshold. And when you get to the convention and no one hits the threshold, then they have to rethink who they want as their nominee.

Let's face it, at the convention, Chris, as you know because you've covered them, you got a lot of Congressmen, you got the senators, you got the party chairmen there. A variety of people. You got a lot of worker bees. And the worker bees and all these people involved in the day to day process of governing are worried about local elections, congressional elections, Senate elections, and the presidential election and they want the strongest possible candidate at the top of the ticket. And right now, according to national polls, and remember, Donald Trump favors polls, the person at the top of the ticket that does the best is John Kasich.

CUOMO: How do you make the case that he is the best nominee for the Republican Party when he doesn't win any of the primaries? You look at Wisconsin and New York and you know the governor is trailing well behind Cruz and Trump.

RIDGE: Well, I make the case a couple of different ways, Chris. First of all, I do -- well I realize that polls are just a snapshot. I think their fairly telling snapshot he is the best candidate in the fall. And ultimately isn't that what this process is all about? It's the fall election, not the election and selection in Cleveland.

And secondly, if you take a look at the number of Republicans who have voted in the primaries, while there have been record turnouts, I would dare say you probably still only have about 30 percent of the total registered Republicans showing up in the aggregate in the primaries. It might be a little bit more.

There are a lot of Republicans who haven't spoken, but those who haven't spoken during the course of the primaries clearly want a victory in November and along with the victory in the presidential race, they want to see their Congressmen reelected, their senators reelected, a lot of local and state officials reelected as well. So I think a really strong case could be made for John for the fall election.

CUOMO: Well I hear that the team is very much gearing up for the convention. We probably, at this point, will be seeing you there, Tom Ridge. So thank you for being with us on NEW DAY. Obviously, we look forward to getting your take in the run up with these last races on the way to the convention. But it does seem to be Governor Kasich's best shot right now. So that is where all eyes are. Thank you for joining us this morning.

RIDGE: Nice to join you, Chris. Always.

CUOMO: Always a pleasure, sir.

[08:54:49] All right. We have been talking politics all morning. It is Monday morning. You know what that means. We need some "Good Stuff," and it is coming next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: It's time for "The Good Stuff." Mary Pat Siess is an avid baker with an aggressive form of leukemia. So Oakmont Bakery in Pittsburgh, guess what they asked her to do? They asked her to help make a cake for a child who also has cancer, or so she thought.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY PAT SIESS, BAKER WITH LEUKEMIA: I had no idea. Everybody thought I knew, but I had no idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: What happened? Tell us.

CUOMO: What did she not know? That her brother, Robert, a soldier stationed in North Carolina and being deployed soon, he was the real surprise for Mary Pat at the bakery. He shows up. Isn't that a great "Good Stuff?" But there is more. With the help of a nonprofit called Jamie's Dream Team, Robert was able to plan a trip to Disney World for the two of them before the deployment.

PEREIRA: Now I'm going to cry. Oh, that's so great. Nothing like your big brother.

Hey, we got to show you our "Good Stuff" family -- our good stuff -- our NEW DAY family is growing. Meet the newest baby. This is writer LJ Spade and his wife Karen. They welcomed their second baby, a healthy baby girl named Miriam Delia (ph), 7 pounds, 11 ounces. Everyone is doing great. Karen is doing fine and so is big sister, Abigail.

CUOMO: Good. Then get back to work if everybody is fine.

PEREIRA: Noo. All right. It's time for "NEWSROOM" with Poppy Harlow, who is in for Carol Costello this morning. Hey, Pops.

(CROSSTALK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, guys. Yes, another baby on the way here very, very soon. What a beautiful --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Should you be at work?

HARLOW: Yes.