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Voters Head to Polls in Wisconsin; Clinton, Sanders Agree to CNN Debate Next Week; Villanova Wins National Title with Buzzer- Beater. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired April 05, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to have a very, very big victory. Very, very big.

[05:58:27] SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is not the time for circus side shows.

TRUMP: Let me be unpresidential just for a little while longer.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think they're becoming hysterical.

TRUMP: He ought to get the hell out.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm very confident that I will be the nominee.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the secretary is getting very nervous.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than a dozen suspected jihadists who officials are now looking for across Europe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're looking for a needle in a haystack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities are trying to get their arms around exactly how large this network could be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That shot will go down as one of the best game winners in basketball history.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Was that to win it? North Carolina?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

CUOMO: What a game last night. We'll talk about it. But there is a lot of news. A lot of news. Good morning to you. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, April 5, 6 a.m. in the east. Alisyn off. J.B. here with Mick and I.

Here's what we know. Wisconsin voters are getting ready to change the race. Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, big tests heading into tonight. But the drama is weighted more toward the GOP side. The big question: can Senator Ted Cruz change the delegate calculus with a big win?

Seems the one thing that Cruz and Trump agree on is that Governor John Kasich should drop out. But that ain't happening.

BERMAN: No, all right. This as Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders battle it out in Wisconsin. Razor-tight race for the Democratic side, the rivals. They have agreed to debate next week, ahead of the New York primary. A debate, by the way, that will air right here on CNN.

Could Wisconsin, though, could it spell trouble for both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump? CNN all over this key primary day.

I want to begin with CNN's Phil Mattingly, right here in New York with us -- Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. It has been a week for Donald Trump. A damaging week, a week that could set his campaign back. Or a week that could mark a comeback, of sorts, all depending on what happens tonight.

Trump' advisers acknowledging that he is in trouble in Wisconsin over the last couple of days. But Trump still willing to predict that this could be a big comeback story. Ted Cruz not trying to dampen expectations at all. Both vying for those huge 42 delegates at stake in Wisconsin tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: Thank you, Wisconsin. I love you. Go out and vote. I love you.

MATTINGLY: The final 24-hour blitz. The Republican candidates exchanges insults and fighting for votes ahead of a primary that could reshape the Republican race.

TRUMP: I've never, ever met anybody that lied like him.

CRUZ: His security blanket is to insult people.

KASICH: I think they're becoming hysterical.

MATTINGLY: Donald Trump on damage control after the worst week of his campaign.

TRUMP: Every week, "Tt's the end of Trump." Then they walk in, "Sir, I don't know what happened, but your poll numbers just went through the roof."

MATTINGLY: Rolling out female supporters and his wife Melania in a desperate bid to improve his standing with women.

MELANIA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE: No matter who you are, a man or a woman, he treats everyone equal.

MATTINGLY: Senator Ted Cruz looking to capitalize on Trump's weakness.

CRUZ: I know that Donald, it makes him feel really tough. It makes him feel like a very, very big man to threaten people. In particular, he seems to have a problem with strong women.

MATTINGLY: And once again denying tabloid reports accusing him of cheating on his wife.

CRUZ: That attack was complete and utter garbage. It was complete lies. And it came from Donald Trump and his henchmen.

MATTINGLY: Trump and Cruz both calling for Republican rival John Kasich to drop out of the race.

TRUMP: He's 1 in 30. He ought to get the hell out. Honestly.

CRUZ: If you lose 49 states, you ain't going to be the Republican nominee.

MATTINGLY: A proposal that Kasich flat-out rejected.

KASICH: He said, "He needs to get out because he's getting my votes. And I want to have my votes. He's -- this is not fair!" I thought we got out of the sandbox years ago.

MATTINGLY: The Ohio governor returning fire, accusing Ted Cruz of playing dirty politics in response to a series of attack ads that the Cruz campaign rolled out this weekend.

KASICH: He smeared Ben Carson. He smeared Marco Rubio. He smeared Donald Trump. And now he's smearing me. Don't push me around. If you think you can push me around and get away with it, you're wrong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: The reality of tonight is this. Up to this point, Donald Trump's advisers have said that they do have a pathway to that 1,237 number, the number of delegates needed for Trump to secure the nomination before the convention in Cleveland. Now, if Ted Cruz has a big night tonight, sweeping all 42 delegates or even a good number of them, that will go a long way to blocking Trump to that number.

And guys, that at this point is really kind of the biggest in-game of what happens tonight in Wisconsin.

CUOMO: All right, Phil, appreciate it. Let's discuss all the goings on. We have CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston. We have Jackie Kucinich. We have senior politics editor for "The Daily Beast," Jackie, as well. Good. Got that intro. Nailed it. Should have wrote it a little bit more carefully, perhaps. Good thing we have two more hours to get it right.

All right. So they only have one chance to get it right tonight, and when we're looking at this, let's play a piece of sound. Because the radio cabal, the conservative thinkers in Wisconsin, have united against Trump. And they have created a theme about why he's unelectable. And I want to play this piece of sound that is really resonating with them. They say this is their theory of the case against Trump.

Let's play the Trump presidential boring as hell side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I could be presidential. But if I was presidential, we'd only have 20 percent of you people would be here, because it would be boring as hell, I would say. No, let me be unpresidential just for a little while longer. And maybe I'll be a little bit unpresidential as I beat Hillary, because we'll beat Hillary so badly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Jackie, this crowd and crowds all across the country do the same thing: they cheer wildly. I know that they're Trump crowds. But they're growing and growing. Yet, in Wisconsin, these conservative radio hosts are saying, "Did you hear everything he just said there? This is why he can't be president."

What are they hearing?

JACKIE KUCINICH, SENIOR POLITICS EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, they've been hearing from these talk radio folks that you just discussed, someone like a Charlie Sykes, who Trump had a very embarrassing interview with last week, that Trump is just unfit to be president.

And they've all -- a lot of them are big Cruz backers. So Wisconsin conservatives have been hearing this over and over again about Trump.

It was interesting. They're kind of killing him with kindness in a way. He's had a couple rallies in Wisconsin. They haven't been the sort of giant blowouts that we've seen in other parts of the country.

[06:05:10] But there weren't really protesters. No one's really angry about it. You know, last night was opening night at the ballpark there in Milwaukee. It seems like they're more interested in sports than supporting Trump.

BERMAN: you know, Maeve, there is serious peril in the Wisconsin results for Donald Trump. Yes, he's way ahead in the delegate race right now. But Ted Cruz could win every delegate in Wisconsin, or near every delegate there. And then the math for Donald Trump to get the clear majority on the first ballot, that goes away. And we could be in for two weeks, the next two weeks leading up to New York being just this frenzy. Trump has to know that.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He does. And, you know, you're hearing that, certainly, from this adviser that they -- they said this was never going to be, you know, the best territory for them. But this was the moment where the anti-Trump forces wanted to -- to

stop him. They believed they could boost Ted Cruz far enough up so that, you know, they would deprive Donald Trump of that 1,237 number.

And so tonight is a huge night for that, too. You know, will the money keep coming in for the anti-Trump forces? Will -- will it prove their case that he is, you know, able to be defeated?

And so that's why tonight's results are just going to be huge on the Republican side. Ted Cruz obviously has such a strong ground game. He's been really working it in Wisconsin. And he could run away with it tonight.

CUOMO: Jackie, who do you want to be, Ted Cruz or John Kasich if this "stop Trump" phenomenon that's going on within the party there and some of these conservative radio elites, if this works and he doesn't get to 1,237, who do you want to be, going into that convention?

KUCINICH: I just want to be me, Chris, at the end of the day.

CUOMO: Doesn't work, Jackie. You're good looking; you're too smart. Can't be elected. So who do you want?

KUCINICH: OK, so I do think Ted Cruz definitely, he's going to different states and talking -- and securing delegates so that on the second or third ballot he has -- I want to be Ted Cruz. Because he's going to have a ground game on that convention floor that the others don't have right now.

In particular, somewhere like Louisiana, somewhere like Wyoming in these -- these caucuses where they're electing delegates. Ted Cruz seems to really have the advantage, because they thought six steps ahead of these other Republican candidates right now.

BERMAN: I have to say, I think we heard from Ted Cruz one of the seminal sound bites of this campaign yesterday, explaining where he thinks things are going and who he's fighting. He's not just fighting Donald Trump and John Kasich. He's also fighting for his space at the convention, saying, "It's got to be me. It's got to be only me. And if it's not me, you, the establishment, you're all in trouble." Listen to what he said yesterday, and he used the word "revolt."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: This fever pipe dream in Washington that at the convention they will parachute in some white knight who will save the Washington establishment, it is nothing less than a pipe dream. It ain't going to happen. If it did, the people would quite rightly revolt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: People would quit rightly revolt. Now Donald Trump got in trouble for language that was a little bit harsher than that. But I would say on the same spectrum right there, the idea that people would riot at the convention. Ted Cruz just saying revolt right there. But he's talking about the idea that John Kasich would somehow end up the nominee or, Maeve, someone like Paul Ryan or Mitt Romney at the last minute.

RESTON: Well, I think this is such a great example of what Ted Cruz has done so well in this race, which is that whole drafting strategy. Just behind Donald Trump. Not going quite as far as Donald Trump. But, you know, making the same case that he's the guy that can really take it to the establishment.

This is a great argument for him to be talking about. There are a lot of Republicans who would certainly be angry if there was some last- minute move to put up a Mitt Romney or a Paul Ryan on the convention floor. And for Ted Cruz to sort of marshal his forces in and make himself, you know, part of that anti-establishment anger is a very smart move at this point.

I think it's more likely that Ted Cruz's people would be able to pull off a really successful floor fight. As Jackie was saying, we've seen them so organized in all of these states, including some of the ones coming up, like Colorado this weekend, where there will be a lot of unbound delegates. His strategy has been so strong on the ground from the beginning, and that's really going to help him if Trump can't get to that 1,237 number.

CUOMO: There's no question that Cruz made some good hires. He has some big, strong names in his camp right now. But the big question is going to be for him if he gets pulled into a convention. Do they like him enough? I know that sounds juvenile.

But, you know, very often that's what it comes down to. Do you have enough people in the party superstructure who like you enough to go out and work those delegates? Your team can't do it alone. You need the party big shots to come behind you at some point. This is a partisan system. And I think it's a very interesting question. I get why the Ohio governor is not getting out of this race, even if he goes 1 in 49. You know?

BERMAN: And you heard him. You heard him -- you heard him using harsh language there yesterday.

All right. Maeve Reston, Jackie Kucinich, thanks so much for being with us.

RESTON: Thank you.

PEREIRA: All right. We turn to the Democrats now. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are locked in a dead heat in Wisconsin, as the two rivals finally put the debate debacle to rest. Chris Frates live in Green Bay, where polls open in less than two hours' time, a big day there. And we have a date for this debate.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey. Good morning, Michaela. Yes, that's right. And Bernie Sanders is really hoping to take all that time and energy that he spent in Wisconsin, especially in the last week, and translate into votes.

And he's leading Hillary Clinton in the polls. But he's really looking to run up the score today and take as many of the state's 86 delegates as possible. And that margin may hinge a lot on can he get independents to the poll in this open primary in Wisconsin, independents favoring Hillary Clinton -- excuse me, favoring Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton by a wide margin.

Now, the Clinton campaign, they've been downplaying expectations all week long here, reminding reporters that she lost to then-Senator Obama eight years ago by double digits. And pointing out that the state's majority white population really favors Sanders. So perhaps it's not surprising that Bernie Sanders is sounding downright bullish on the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: I don't want to get Hillary Clinton more nervous than she already is. She's already under a lot of pressure. So don't tell her this. But I think we win here, we win in New York state, we're on our way to the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: Winning in New York state is going to be a tall order for Bernie Sanders. Hillary Clinton leading him there by double digits. In fact, she campaigned in her home state yesterday to help solidify that lead. And there's no surprise as to why: 250 delegates thereabouts up for grabs on April 19 in New York. That's second only to California.

And remember, Bernie Sanders is lagging Hillary Clinton by about 240 delegates. And he needs -- there's no winner-take-all primaries. So he 75 percent of the pledge delegates remaining to clinch that nomination. Hillary Clinton needs just 35 percent.

But Sanders is not giving up on winning in New York. In fact, just yesterday, Sanders and Clinton agreeing to debate right here on CNN April 14. That's the first time those two are going to go head to head in over a month, Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris.

Yes, as he just said, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders squaring off in that CNN debate. It is scheduled for New York, next Thursday, April 14, which is five days before the New York primary.

BERMAN: All right. Growing fallout this morning from the explosive Panama papers. Protesters jamming the streets of Iceland's capital there, declaring the prime minister step down. He is one of many world leaders, businesses, executives, and celebrities named in this huge document leak for allegedly using offshore accounts to evade taxes and hide wealth. The current leaders of Argentina, Ukraine, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia also implicated.

CUOMO: Republican Senator Grassley will meet with President Obama Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland, but he's not making any promises. Grassley, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, plans to explain to Judge Garland why he will not consider granting any nominee a hearing until a new president is in office. Meantime, Garland will meet with two other Republicans today, senators Susan Collins and John Boozman.

PEREIRA: Well, it is already being called the greatest buzzer beater in NCAA history -- tournament history. Andy Scholes is in Houston this morning, not bleary-eyed at all. Look at how smiley he is. Talking about this unbelievable win by Villanova. What a game. What a game.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: Unbelievable, Michaela.

I've been to a lot of sporting events, lots of basketball games. I mean, this one was the best by far. What an ending. Just incredible.

If you take a look at how it all went down, you know, Michael Jordan in attendance to cheer on his Tar Heels last night here in Houston. And they were down by three with under 10 seconds to go when senior Marcus Page hit an unbelievable shot to tie the game. But Villanova, they had four seconds left on the clock. They got the ball off the court. And Chris Jenkins knocks down the shot at the buzzer. This one's going to go down as one of the greatest shots in basketball history.

Villanova, who wins the game, 77-74, their first championship since 1985. And I caught up with the hero, Chris Jenkins, moments after his legendary shot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Tell me about what was going through your head when that ball came out of your hands.

CHRIS JENKINS, SCORED WINNING SHOT FOR VILLANOVA: You know, every time I catch the shoot, I'm fortunate enough to get a shot off, I think they're all going in. So when Ryan Ozadiak (ph) fouled me on that shot, that shot was no different. I went two steps and let it go.

SCHOLES: What are you thinking right now? Can you believe what just happened?

JENKINS: I just want to meet Charles Barkley. All the guys up there picked against us, so I just want to say hello.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: And the scene on campus at Villanova when Jenkins made that shot, incredible. Everyone just went into a frenzy, started jumping up and down, high-fiving everyone that was around. And the party may still be being on there right now.

And guys, Jenkins, he's been a great story for us in Houston all week. He was actually adopted by the family of a North Carolina player. Nate Brady is a guard for the Tar Heels. His family brought Jenkins in, they say, when they were in high school. And Brent said after the game, you know, he congratulated him on

making that shot. But since he's his brother, he kind of wishes anyone else would have made that shot, because now Jenkins has bragging rights --

PEREIRA: Yes.

SCHOLES: -- over him pretty much the rest of their lives.

PEREIRA: Yes, oh, that's fantastic. And I love that you brought adoption in. Both Andy and I are adopted. We talk about that a lot, and I love hearing that connection to the story.

Can you imagine? Did you see that crowd?

BERMAN: Look, there's a victory -- victory for the Big East. You know, this is a smaller school going against big guys there. It was good.

CUOMO: And I'll tell you what. I mean, it's just -- that's what makes this tournament so amazing.

PEREIRA: So great.

CUOMO: You start with all 64. You come down. And there's all these analyses of what can happen. I mean, you know, it makes -- it makes politics look like science.

PEREIRA: I know. Right?

CUOMO: And then you get to the end of it, and that one shot. That point guard, he's got to get his due, too.

PEREIRA: Yes, I know.

CUOMO: That was my position. But for him to just know that the guy was going to be there behind him --

PEREIRA: He was going to be there.

CUOMO: -- and give it to him, take the big shot.

PEREIRA: Incredible.

BERMAN: And he drove fast. Right.

Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton neck and neck in Wisconsin. Can one of them pull off a buzzer beater? A Bernie Sanders win could change the dynamic in the Democratic race. How is his jump shot? That's next.

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[06:20:43] BERMAN: All eyes on Wisconsin today. Voters head to the polls on the Democratic side. The Sanders campaign, they want to secure a sixth win tonight. This is in a row, basically, in a small group of voting here. They want that momentum. Will it be enough, though, to break into Hillary Clinton's delegate lead?

We're joined again by Maeve Reston and Jackie Kucinich. Guys, the polls up until today, Jackie, have had Hillary Clinton in trouble in Wisconsin, trailing Bernie Sanders by a little bit. This is a state she wants, but the Clinton campaign at this point concedes is tough for them.

KUCINICH: They've been dialing back expectations for about a week now on how they will perform in Wisconsin. And she has been spending time in places like New York and Pennsylvania, sort of in contests that are a couple weeks away.

But I mean, demographically, Wisconsin favors Bernie Sanders. There's a lot of millennials. It's a predominantly white state. So the real question is how big he wins. You know, should he have a victory here, it's how big he wins, particularly going into New York, which I would say, that is the real battleground here and, you know, where things will really go down in about a week.

CUOMO: All right, so Maeve, let's go with what their big sticks are that we're seeing. Bernie Sanders is saying, "Look, another $44 million I just raised and all from small donations. I have the will of the people."

Hillary Clinton's campaign says, "2.5 million is our number. That's how many more votes we've received from Democrats than Bernie Sanders."

Which is more impressive and why?

RESTON: Well, I mean, you think about that number for Bernie Sanders. It's a really good number. But I mean, if he had to run a real race here in California, you could wipe out that $44 million in a couple of weeks.

I think this is such a tough argument for both of them. Because tonight is so crucial for Sanders, because he has to have a huge surge of momentum to get into those states coming up like Pennsylvania, New York, California, New Jersey.

And as Hillary Clinton's campaign manager pointed out in this memo yesterday, you know, he would have to win 60 percent of the delegates in those states, more than that, to really make this a real contest.

So it's going to be fascinating to watch. I think when you're arguing that the math is on your side but the passion's not there, that's not always a great place to be in. But there's a lot riding on this for Sanders tonight. Because if he doesn't do well, this thing could really start to wind down.

BERMAN: If you read that memo, though, from Robby Mook, the Clinton campaign manager, Maeve, what he's arguing is that he has math and passion. That Hillary Clinton has math and passion on her side. That's what the 2.5 million votes that Chris was talking about means right there. And you can see a quote from it right there, where Robby Mook says,

"The Sanders campaign path forward relies on overturning the will of the voters, overturning the will of those 2.5 million more people who have voted for Hillary Clinton and given her those impressive primary wins in these states, Jackie. That's the argument you're hearing from the Clinton campaign.

But perhaps the fact that they're making that argument so strenuously right now and putting up that memo overnight, it shows that if they're not nervous, at least they're annoyed that this is going on the way that it is, Jackie.

KUCINICH: Well, I mean, you saw that annoyance come out a little bit last week with Hillary Clinton and the Greenpeace protester.

Sanders campaign is getting under their skin, because they have no reason to drop out. They're still fund-raising. They're still, if they win Wisconsin, they're still putting points up on the board.

Now, as that memo said, the math isn't really in their favor. But still I mean, what -- if you were the Sanders campaign, why would you drop out at this point?

CUOMO: Well, I don't think anybody is talking about him dropping out. Certainly least of all Bernie Sanders.

KUCINICH: Well, I mean, the Clinton campaign.

BERMAN: But that's the clear implication of what they are saying, isn't it? The idea that the math isn't there. It's not saying he should drop out, but it's saying why is he still running if he can't win?

CUOMO: Right. But I think the Clinton camp understands that saying Bernie should drop out can hurt you as much as it hurts them.

BERMAN: Saying it, not implying it, though.

KUCINICH: They need that passion to vote for them in November.

CUOMO: That's understood. I get that point. But I mean, I think what's getting under her skin is not just the tactics. That's not what Bernie Sanders is about. It's about how he keeps pushing her, pushing her campaign to do more for the part of the party that, you know, Clinton may or may not want to serve.

Look what happened here in New York. Right? My brother's the governor here. He's running around with his $15, you know, minimum wage that he just put in the budget. Hillary Clinton comes out and says, "Great."

Bernie Sanders comes: "Why is she patting him on the back? She not in favor of $15 minimum wage. I am." You can see how that creates tension, Maeve.

[06:25:20] RESTON: Yes, it does. And but I mean, the fact that she's even having to really work as hard as she is in her home state of New York really underscores that passion point.

I mean, you can -- yes, there are huge numbers of voters that have voted for Hillary Clinton, but she -- you feel it at her rallies. There's not the same kind of energy that there is, you know, at the Sanders events. And she's -- that's her huge problem.

CUOMO: Their campaign puts that on us, by the way. They say, "No, you cover them that way. You cover them like he has all the energy. We have big crowds, too."

RESTON: I'm talking about how it feels in the room. That's all I'm talking about.

But I think that, you know, obviously, Sanders has a huge hill to climb coming up tonight. And -- and Hillary Clinton, though, looking very strong heading into the convention. So we'll see.

BERMAN: Maeve Reston, Jackie Kucinich, great to have you both with us. Thanks so much. We'll say it and imply it at the same time.

RESTON: Thank you.

CUOMO: I'm implying it more than say it. You can say it.

BERMAN: I'll say it.

CUOMO: Coming up on NEW DAY, we're going to hear from both Democratic campaign. Who better to make the case?

BERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: In the 8 a.m. hour. Jeff Weaver, of course, the Sanders campaign, and Robby Mook, the man with the memo for the Clinton campaign. They'll both be joining us live.

BERMAN: And of course, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, they will square off in a CNN debate right here in New York City in Brooklyn. It's next Thursday, April 14. It's five days before the New York primary. This is a huge deal, folks.

PEREIRA: All right. It has been two weeks since the terror attacks in Brussels. What do investigators know about the terror cell connected to that plot? We'll bring you up to date in a live report next.

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