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European Authorities Tracking Terror Fugitives; Trump Has Dirt on FOX? Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 05, 2016 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:30:48] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: New developments and chilling new questions about the terror network behind the Brussels and Paris attacks. A large number of radical Islamists from Europe linked to the attacks are still at large. Investigators underestimated the scope of this terror network.

CNN's Alexandra Field is live in Brussels with more for us -- Alexandra.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Michaela.

You know, it isn't always a question of not knowing you're looking for but not knowing where to find them. That's what we saw with the Bakraoui brothers, the Brussels brothers who authorities were looking for before the Brussels attacks. They were in Brussels and they still couldn't be found by authorities.

So, when we talk about a growing number of people that authorities are looking for, that is often the case. We know that there are at least a dozen people who were tried in absentia in Belgium in jihadist related cases. They remain at large. So, now, investigators are trying to determine where those people are and what links they could have to the cells that carried out the Brussels and Paris terror attacks.

Even more closely to those attacks, we know that authorities are looking for an additional eight suspects who they believe have connections to either Abaaoud, who is considered to be the ringleader of the Paris attacks, or Salah Abdeslam. That was the Paris suspect who remained at large for some four and a half months. He was found in Brussels just last month, Michaela.

And while the searches across Europe continue, there is a manhunt much closer to home here in Brussels. Still, trying to track down the third airport bomber and the second possible suspects involves in the bombing at that metro station -- Michaela.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. I'll take it. Thank you very much for reporting on this. We're going to stay on it and we'll check back with you later in the show.

Right now, we'll take a quick break. The question is, can authorities in Europe track down all the suspects connected to the Paris and Brussels attacks? More and more they believe this is about one group of bad guys. How extensive, how numerous is this cell? We'll discuss next.

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[06:36:41] PEREIRA: It has been two weeks since the Brussels terror attacks. As we just heard in our last segment, we're learning now more about a large number of Islamic radicals with ties to the Brussels and Paris attacks who are still at large.

Just how big is this terror network?

I want to discuss this with "Politico" senior E.U. correspondent Ryan Heath. Daveed Gartenstein-Ross is here as well, a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, and, of course, a counterterrorism expert.

Gentlemen, two weeks ago today, we were in this live coverage of this horrifying event. We are still discussing this now because the tentacles of this are just now starting to be shown.

Daveed, this article in "The Wall Street Journal" says that they are chasing dozens of these Islamic radicals linked to the Brussels terror network. They know there are many of them are people who have returned from fighting abroad. What does this say to you about the breadth of this network?

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, SENIOR FELLOW, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: The breadth of this network is tremendous. It's the first time you have had a jihadist network in Europe that was able to carry out a major attack, that being the Paris attack, and then bear the full brunt of law enforcement resources being dropped down upon it and carry out another attack, the Brussels attack.

And even after that attack, which was four months after the first one, authorities have said they only now are getting their heads wrapped around this network. That speaks to quite a bit. The fact that you still have dozens, including seemingly, according to French reports, the senior bomb maker, still at large, means it has the capacity to attack again. It shows just how much authorities are overstretched and lack information.

PEREIRA: Lacking information, overstretched, only now, Ryan, understanding how big this could be. You're there. Give us an idea how you think Belgium authorities are reacting to this. Are they behaving as though they understand that they have got to get to the bottom of it?

RYAN HEATH, SENIOR EU CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Yes. But the truth is they're in over their heads. And I think the reality, Michaela, is that they have known for quite a long time it was this big. They were perhaps not aware at how skilled the bomb-making capacities were or how advanced some of the plans were. But the authorities we have been speaking to in the aftermath of the Paris attacks is and one week before the Paris attacks said they expected a roundabout 40 of 117 known radicals to have returned to Belgium, that they thought 40 of them were ready to cause major damage either in Belgium or elsewhere.

So if anything, I'm a little surprised that the number of 22 -- I think it could possibly be larger. And I think the Belgian authorities haven't had the manpower and haven't been able to benefit from enough of the information sharing across different European authorities to really get on top of this. And that's a very hard thing to turn around quickly. It's not something you can click your fingers and get another 100 agents doing surveillance overnight.

PEREIRA: No, we understand that is not something that can happen quickly. And again, that 22 number is "The Wall Street Journal's" number. CNN hasn't been able to verify that.

Daveed, you have said that this face of the network dates back some 15 years, back to 9/11. Is it -- I hate to even think this -- is just too ingrained in the culture there? A culture they can't seem to penetrate, the Belgium authorities?

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: To be clear, when talking about the breadth of the network and how far it dates back, I'm talking about the connections of various radical elements there. And when Ahmad Shah Massoud was assassinated, he was the leader in the Northern Alliance who fought against the Taliban killed just two days before the 9/11 attacks as a precursor to the attacks. He was killed by Belgians who ho have links to members of this network.

But, you know, the network, itself, the current one that carried out attacks, is in many ways new and related to the rise of ISIS in Syria. But the radicalism and extremism dates back to networks like Sharia for Belgium, which is a very well-known militant, which helped facilitate fighters over to Iraq and Syria.

Look, this is a major problem. What European authorities need to be thinking about is not just getting people for terrorism offenses. Rather, they can take a page from the U.S. did with Al Capone. You know, Al Capone was the U.S.'s first celebrity criminal. He was ultimately arrested, indicted and went to prison not for bootlegging, not for murder, not for being a mobster but income tax evasion. They need to break up these networks. They need to get these guys off the streets.

PEREIRA: Well, but the fact is you've got to be able to track them down, right? That's the biggest challenge. So many of them by this account, over two dozen, are on the run. They don't know where they are. That is going to be the challenge right there, trying to track them down.

Ryan Heath, Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, thank you so much for joining us today.

HEATH: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Let's take a quick break here.

Voters in Wisconsin heading to the polls this morning. The economy clearly one of the biggest concerns. So, which candidate do they think is best suited to bring back thousands of lost jobs. Answer ahead.

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[06:45:49] BERMAN: It's time for CNN Money now. Chief business correspondent Christine Romans in the money center with details on the top issue for voters in Wisconsin today.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: All right. Let me guess, John Berman. The economy and jobs. Issue number one for primary voters.

Wisconsin jobless rate, 4.6 percent below the national average. Median price of a home, around 146 grand. Household income, nearly $53,000 right at the national average.

Biggest industries: insurance, health care, manufacturing, and, of course, dairy farming. Wisconsin, the largest -- the country's largest producer of cheese. It supplies a quarter of all the cheese in the U.S., second biggest dairy producer behind California by the way. It's why immigration and lost factory jobs, those are two issues very important to Wisconsin voters -- Chris.

CUOMO: Thank you very much for that, Christine Romans.

So, there is strong evidence suggesting two Amtrak workers killed in Sunday's train crash near Philadelphia made a colossal mistake by being on the wrong line. That is the word.

According to a source close to the investigation, investigators are now trying to figure out why they were there while using equipment? Remember, this was a backhoe. Experts say work on active rail lines isn't unusual on Sundays but should only involve small or hand-held equipment. Dozens of train passengers had to be treated for minor injuries.

PEREIRA: Investigators are trying to fork out what exactly caused a sightseeing helicopter to crash killing off five aboard in Tennessee. Officials say there is no sign of trouble Monday though when the chopper toured the Pigeon Forge area, that's near Great Smokey Mountains National Park. The crash did cause a tremendous fire. Once it hit the ground, the police chief says there's not much left of that helicopter.

BERMAN: An Alabama lawmaker today expected to file a resolution to start impeachment proceedings against Governor Robert Bentley. He is caught up in bit of a scandal involving his former top aide, Rebekah Mason. Bentley apologized after he was caught making sexual remarks to her. He since said they did not have an affair. Mason resigned last week.

CUOMO: United Airlines this morning trying to figure out what prompted a flight attendant to deploy an emergency slide. A spokesman says the breach happened when the plane taxied to its gate at the airport in Houston. We're told an unidentified woman has been pulled off the job. Officials say no one on board was hurt. PEREIRA: A startling article reveals Donald Trump may have some dirt

on FOX News and its head Roger Ailes. What does he know? We're going to try and get some answers from a person who spent time in Trump's inner circle, next on NEW DAY.

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[06:51:59] CUOMO: Donald Trump says, partly sarcastically, that being presidential would be boring as hell. Whatever you think about Trump's unorthodox campaign, it is not boring.

Our next guest spent time with Trump's inner circle. The result, a revealing "New York Magazine" cover story that takes you behind the scenes of operation Trump.

Introduce our guest.

BERMAN: The magazine's national affairs editor, Gabriel Sherman. Gabe wrote it. He joins us right now.

Gabe, you were inside the Trump operation. But that means something different than it might for a traditional campaign.

GABRIEL SHERMAN, NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Yes. It's a very different kind of operation, a very small operation. Unlike a traditional candidate who travels with teams of advisers, pollsters, media coaches, Donald Trump is running a campaign as his campaign manager, strategists, and candidate wrapped into one. It is really a one-man show. He has a small tight knit circle of advisers around him who to carry out his wishes. But it is not a big, robust campaign that Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio had been running.

CUOMO: How much time and inclusion do you think you got? And during that time, did you ever hear anyone say, no, no, no --

BERMAN: You're wrong.

CUOMO: Don't do that. You're wrong.

SHERMAN: No. So, I went to Trump Tower headquarters. It's -- the campaign office is buried in the back room, essentially a boiler room on the fifth floor. There's exposed ceiling wires, garbage cans on the floor. It looks like a college newspaper. In fact, college newspapers are better decorated than Trump headquarters.

And I travelled, I saw him in Florida, spent time with him in his executive office. I really got an inside look. And what was fascinating, whatever you think about Donald Trump, he is a political savant. He is running a campaign that has come out of his head. He is not poll testing, focus grouping anything.

And the fact that he's gotten this far whether or not he gets the nomination is kind of a remarkable political story.

CUOMO: So, nobody was checking him when you were with him? SHERMAN: No. I mean, he did not test things. He told me when he did

his announcement speech, the infamous speech where he said Mexico was sending rapists into America, he just -- off the cuff. I mean, he's read from notes, there was a not a prepared remarks. It's a remarkable story.

BERMAN: Great details. The wall of shame. You know, the picture of all the candidates who dropped out and the date they dropped. It's a little vindictive, one might say, right there.

But you also, you know, no one checks it. No one stops them from doing something. But you have some people commenting that there are signs of, I don't know, weakness or trouble in Trump world, right? People say he's tired.

People say they have never seen him so tired. His comments about punishing abortion seekers might have a function of sheer exhaustion.

SHERMAN: Yes. He has been going nonstop. When I saw him in Florida, he started in Hickory, North Carolina, flew to Tampa, at the ended the day in Youngstown, Ohio.

So, he does not like to sleep in hotels. Whenever possible, he flies in New York or Palm Beach, which means landing at 2:00, 3:00 in the morning.

So, he has been going at this, you know, torrid phase from the beginning.

BERMAN: And he is wearing a bullet vest you said.

SHERMAN: Yes, it's very uncomfortable on the stump. It's hot. It's constricting. So, he's just physically exhausted.

[06:55:01] And some people in Trump world say that the gaffes, now this might self-interested, but the gaffes over the last week have partly been induced just for the fact that he's worn out, he's tired.

CUOMO: What isn't a function of exhaustion is his baseline tactic of returning what he sees as attacks ten fold as his wife said just last night? What is your take? Is that narcissism or pragmatism? He's using that tactic?

SHERMAN: I think it is probably a combination of the two. I write about this at the end of the piece. I think it's going to be very hard. A lot of people to talk about, are we going to see a different Donald Trump? Is he going to pivot to be presidential? As you pointed out, he said it would be boring as hell.

I just don't see Donald Trump fundamentally becoming a new person. This is who he is. He's been this way on the public stage.

CUOMO: It's who he is, or he thinks this is what works or both?

SHERMAN: I think it's blended at this point. In public, he has been playing this character 40 years. Long before "The Apprentice", he was a New York City tabloid villain. He was the brash, cocky, young New York real estate scion.

So, he has been playing this role. I think at this point, it's just hard to come up with a new script. This is the script he knows how to play.

BERMAN: They say do a few polls, travel a little bit more. Does Trump see any of that?

SHERMAN: You know, I think -- the thing that I got from my interviews is he really wished he won Ohio. He told me at one point, he wished he had two more days of campaigning, because if he did win Ohio, that would have closed the deal.

I think the fact that Kasich won Ohio. He didn't close the deal on Super Tuesday means he is now in this trench warfare. He is going to slog it out for delegates. Trump does not have the infrastructure that Ted Cruz has to maneuver and muscle these delegates.

CUOMO: You get a thought on your piece, that, you know, you don't know -- they seem very well or he seems very well-equipped to fight the fight. But is he ready to win it and do what you need to do if you become the nominee or even president of the United States.

Now, there is a bit of insider intrigue in which we must indulge, Gabe.

BERMAN: Totally.

CUOMO: The FOX stuff. The idea that Donald Trump may have something on FOX honcho Roger Ailes and that somehow -- do you buy this?

SHERMAN: Yes, I do. You know, I was -- I've been covering the FOX- Trump feud since he teed off on Megyn Kelly at the first debate. And I've been trying to understand how is it that Donald Trump has been able to do something that no Republican has done in the 20 years of FOX News' history, which is openly challenge and criticize FOX News.

What I learned in the course of reporting this piece, is that Donald Trump was brought into a secret negotiation that took place back in 2013 with Roger Ailes and his along time PR confidante Brian Lewis who was fired in the months before I published a biography of Roger Ailes. And Brian Lewis knows the deepest, darkest secrets of FOX News. He knows all of the shady, behind the scenes things that Roger Ailes has done, and he was going to go public if he wasn't paid a big severance deal.

And to settle this mess, Roger Ailes called his then-close friend Donald Trump and said, hey, mediate. You can get a deal done. You know Lewis' lawyer. Get these the guys in a room, get it done.

And Donald Trump did this. Negotiations were conducted out of Trump Tower. In the open negotiations, he learned the chips and the cards that Brian Lewis was going to play. That information was worth millions of dollars. FOX News paid Brian Lewis a reported $8 million, decided the nondisclosure, and go away quietly. So, now, Donald Trump is privy to that information. And presumably,

Roger Ailes knows that, which is why you have not seen FOX News devout 24 hours a day of negative coverage to try to destroy Rogers Ailes -- I mean, Donald Trump. It has been a fight, but it has been essentially cold war standoff with two super powers because they know they have mutually assured destruction.

BERMAN: That's a pretty explosive charge, I think two explosive two charges you made there. One is that Donald Trump was kind of a Wolf figure from "Pulp Fiction", Harvey Keitel going in and fixing the situation there.

SHERMAN: Yes. Well, just to be clear, Trump himself told me that. I mean, that was --

CUOMO: But does Ailes -- has Ailes or anyone from FOX confirmed that, that they asked --

SHERMAN: They declined to comment. They're not getting involved.

BERMAN: Does Trump or Ailes say publicly they have some kind of file, that Trump has some kind of file of information on FOX?

SHERMAN: I mean, they did not dispute it. I mean, he was saying, I was brought in. This is a messy negotiation. I don't see any reason why he wouldn't and FOX News hasn't --

CUOMO: Can you imagine Roger Ailes, as sophisticated as this guy is, as well-connected as he is, as battle hardened as he is, calling up Donald Trump and say, will you negotiate with my PR guy's lawyer?

SHERMAN: But this is what is so fascinating. It shows what a master operator Donald Trump is, because back then in 2013, long before Donald Trump was a presidential candidate, he was a close friend of Roger Ailes. He had a weekly call-in slot on "Fox and Friends". He was in the Fox orbit.

He does this favor for Ailes. It's a card he can play. And now, it's useful for him down the line. I mean, this is the way Donald Trump maneuvers.

You know, famously, he said he paid the Clintons to come to his wedding. When it was useful for him on the debate stage, he then said that to attack Hillary Clinton. He said, of course, I paid them.