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GOP Rivals Battle For Wisconsin; How Will Wisconsin Primary Change The Race?; What Would A Wisconsin Loss Mean For Clinton; Rep. Ribble Endorses Cruz For President; Cruz Warns Of "Revolt" If GOP Nominates Alternate Candidate. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 05, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:33:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: On the eve of this all-important Wisconsin primary, Donald Trump giving the voters something that they have been asking for. He's going to build that wall, right? What's the big question? The big question has always been how? Out comes a memo from team Trump saying how.

The headline is by blocking remittances -- money that people send from this country to other countries, specifically Mexican aliens that -- in the memo, it says -- cannot show that they are in this country lawfully. What's this going to mean? A lot of controversy, so let's discuss with Haley Bumgarner, senior press representative for the Trump campaign.

You are new, relatively, with the campaign. You are not new to this business, so let's dive right in. It's good to have you on NEW DAY. Sell this proposition of blocking remittances. Why is this the right way to pay for this wall?

HALEY BUMGARNER, SENIOR PRESS REPRESENTATIVE, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Let's look at the situation in totality. Mr. Trump is a tough negotiator. He knows how to get deals done. We see that historically in his businesses, and this is his way to position from strength to build a wall -- a wall that we need in Mexico -- will pay for that wall to be built.

CUOMO: So blocking remittances -- remittances are, basically, usually, money that the workers make here and then send home to their incredibly impoverished families. Is that the right kind of leverage to use or is that abusing the victims?

[07:35:00] BUMGARNER: It's not abusing the victim. We have 47 percent of Americans who are on welfare. We don't have an economy here as it is. It is the responsibility of the President of the United States and the commander in chief to make sure that our economy is sound, and using that type of leverage is exactly what needs to happen in order to get this done.

CUOMO: Haley, how does Trump get it done? It's going to be, probably -- the way it's planned out here if he were to become president, obviously -- a very strong-arm executive action. Something that Donald Trump and many Republicans criticize about President Obama all the time. How does he get something like this through?

BUMGARNER: Just as he stated in the memo. Positioning the deal from strength, negotiating strong-armed, as it needs to be done, in order to make it happen. Those type of actions and executive orders remain in place as a resource for a reason and to be used delicately. But as commander in chief you have to make tough decisions and rebuilding our economy and making America great again is exactly what he'll do when he's elected.

CUOMO: So, this is the big primary, obviously. Many of them seem big but this is a moment right now, right? Ted Cruz is trying to change the delegate calculus. Make it so that the path to 1,237 for your man, Donald Trump, becomes very difficult to do, requiring him to get over 50 percent of the remaining delegates to be sure. What do you think happens in Wisconsin and what do you think it means?

BUMGARNER: I think, historically, Mr. Trump has fared very well in open primaries. The energy in Wisconsin is great. Several weeks ago -- last week Cruz was ahead by 10 points or more and yesterday ARG released a poll and now has us in the lead, so the energy is great. Wisconsin voters can see through the establishment rhetoric in all the lies of the Cruz campaign and they will show up at the polls, get out the vote to make America great again.

CUOMO: How do you think it's going in Wisconsin in repairing the damage, as it's perceived, from last week with the punitive statements about women who have abortions?

BUMGARNER: I think that this is rhetoric that has been overplayed, over-discussed. Mr. Trump has made several statements clarifying his position that he is pro-life with exceptions, the same as Ronald Reagan. This is nothing new. This is just media spin and liberal bias as a way to intimidate women voters and others.

CUOMO: The only problem with that argument, Haley, is that it came out of his mouth, not mine, right? These are his words. We had Steve Forbes on the show the other day. He said a Republican running at this level has to nail that answer 10 times out of 10. It's not a time to clarify. Fair criticism?

BUMGARNER: I don't believe so. I think that he speaks from his heart. He's speaking truthfully and I think that women can see through that. He has great support from women all over the country from all walks of life and I think that his stance is more than fair.

CUOMO: Is losing in Wisconsin something that the campaign is aware of? We had another adviser on the day from the Trump team saying we never thought that Wisconsin was going to be a big deal for us. We never had it in our calculus of how we get to 1,237. That was news to me. What is your take on how important this state is?

BUMGARNER: I think every state is important. Every vote is important. Every American is important in the process of electing a president. We are campaigning, and touching, and talking to every segment of Wisconsin to get out the vote and we will not stop until the election is over. CUOMO: How much a part of the campaign planning now is about what happens if you don't get to the magic number?

BUMGARNER: I think we're focused on the win. I don't think we're focused on the negative. We will get to the magic number. We have states ahead of us where we are way ahead of the other candidates and we're going to continue to campaign hard.

This is overwhelming -- the historical support throughout the country to make America great again. This is a revolution. Americans are sick of the establishment and the government rhetoric -- that they don't work for us and this is the time to make America great again and we're seeing it all across the country from all walks of life.

CUOMO: Haley Bumgarner, thank you. Welcome to NEW DAY. It's good to have you on the show and good luck tonight.

BUMGARNER: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Mic.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: So the question is will Wisconsin be the game-changer? Trump and Clinton's status as clear front-runners now on the line. We will look at how the state's primary could change the race.

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[07:43:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All eyes on Wisconsin this morning. Voters starting to make their way to the polls as we speak. It is a crucial primary for both the Democrats and Republicans, so how will things change after today?

Let's bring in CNN political analyst, David Gregory. David, I'm going to ask you a question. Why is this primary different from all others? In other words, what changes tomorrow?

CUOMO: Right out of the box you ask him that. That's tough.

BERMAN: He'll appreciate it.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right out of the box. Why is this night different from all other nights? Why is this primary so different? I think because this represents an opportunity for this #NeverTrump movement to really take root in a way that it has not taken root before.

That gives the opportunity for Cruz to win something -- a primary that he hasn't won since March 1st in Texas and Oklahoma. An opportunity for Kasich to stay in the race, to keep on going. Maybe pick up some delegates. And it's a real look at whether there is an unraveling going on in the Trump campaign.

How many months did people say oh well, if Trump says this, that's disqualifying, and nothing happened? Now you have a string of a week to two weeks of not only misstatements but a hard look at the Trump campaign and whether he can't win beyond his base of support which tends to be white men without a college education. Can he expand that base of support as he goes into states where you have more moderate voters as he looks to the northeast?

CUOMO: And interesting, one of the guys from the Trump team said to me the other day, you guys in the media always talk about our base is white men without a college education. You know what we call them? Middle-class family men. It was an interesting optic play that certainly is showing why there is such a strong emotional bond with that group and Donald Trump.

[07:45:00] Let's play at the numbers a little bit, David, on both sides. Ted Cruz says if I get a decent showing tonight in Wisconsin, he has to win -- Donald Trump has to win 54 plus percent of the remaining delegates, right?

BERMAN: Actually more if Cruz --

CUOMO: Then it's like 57 percent. OK, so he hasn't done that yet. What does that mean numbers wise? Is that a true statement? Is it a fair statement of the projection of how this race goes, meaning he can't get to 1,237?

GREGORY: Yes, and I think John's right. I think that number actually gets higher depending upon how Trump does today. Remember, there's still an opportunity for him, if he performs well in a couple of the districts where those voters that you just mentioned might come out for him in a couple of the congressional districts in Wisconsin, to get some delegates. And if you're Trump, every delegate counts at this stage.

Otherwise, he needs a very high percentage. It could be 60 plus percent of remaining delegates or maybe closer to two-thirds of what's on the board still in order to get to 1,237. It's even more difficult for Cruz. It's impossible for Kasich. But, nevertheless, if you're Cruz and if you're Kasich you just want to get to an open convention.

That's all you're really concerned about here because you understand that even if Trump doesn't do well in Wisconsin -- if he loses Wisconsin, where do you go? You go to New York, a base of strength for him. And then after that you've got other northeastern states where Trump has an opportunity to really do well.

And one of the things about that base of support. You're right, Chris, about the optics. We look at this trying to be analytical about who are the demographics, what are the demographics, and how you put that together. And the truth is, that base of support that Trump talks about is strong, it's been durable, but can you win a general election based on that? That's the question.

CUOMO: Absolutely.

GREGORY: He's still the odds-on favorite to win the nomination with it. CUOMO: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Or, he is up until today. The question is, is that still the case tomorrow, Wednesday, or Thursday? Let's switch to the Democratic side right now because Hillary Clinton trailing Bernie Sanders in most of the polls heading into the voting today. If Hillary Clinton loses Wisconsin, even if it's close there, David, what does this do to the Clinton team?

GREGORY: Again, they can say that they've been anticipating a loss in Wisconsin, a largely white, progressive state with a great progressive tradition for a long time. But there is still a lot of momentum for Bernie Sanders at this point. He's well-funded. He's raising a lot of money.

I spoke to his Democratic consultant who had a great line yesterday. He said hope, especially when well-funded, is hard to extinguish. And that's a base of support for Bernie Sanders that's extremely strong. That mirrors that support that Donald Trump has with his base, as well.

Progressives who don't want Hillary Clinton. Who believe in the message and the character and the characteristics. They trust Bernie Sanders, and I think if we see that play in Wisconsin and there's momentum going into the northeast, he might be able to challenge her in New York. They now have an agreement on a new debate and that gives Sanders more oxygen. It gives him an opportunity to keep fighting.

Here, you have the Clinton campaign that has to start making the argument that there's no way for Sanders to win mathematically. It's not going to extinguish the hope -- the sense of mission that his supporters have and that his campaign has as he moves forward. It makes her seem like a weaker front-runner in the end and I think that's what they're trying to avoid.

CUOMO: The number that they're using -- the Clinton team -- is 2.5 million. Why does the media keep saying that Bernie Sanders has all the momentum when we have 2.5 million votes from Democrats?

GREGORY: Look, I don't think the Clinton campaign can fairly complain about the media not assessing this race accurately. We've been on morning after morning talking about how formidable that math is. That she's in a position that Barack Obama was in back in 2008 with his lead over her. That's the truth. That's absolutely there.

But, we're looking at assessing her strength as a candidate. Where is she vulnerable? She's vulnerable with this very base of support that Sanders has and she's going to need that level of enthusiasm in the fall, no matter who she faces.

BERMAN: Well-funded hope is hard to extinguish.

CUOMO: That's very good. He recovered well from that ambush question that you asked him out of the box.

BERMAN: It was hard.

CUOMO: I thought it was unfair and a little untoward.

BERMAN: David Gregory, thank you so much. What is your take, and by you, I mean other than David Gregory? Tweet us @NewDay or post your comment on facebook.com/NewDay -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Hey, I've got hope. Will you guys fund me?

BERMAN: Absolutely. You bet.

PEREIRA: At least, can I get some lunch?

BERMAN: A little parting gift to take to California.

PEREIRA: I like it. Take with me to California.

CUOMO: I don't want to think about it. I don't like that Mic's --

PEREIRA: Denial is not your friend.

CUOMO: I don't like that Mic has decided to grab the big, shiny star and raise herself --

BERMAN: Turn her back on you.

CUOMO: -- leaving me like something from yesterday's lunch bag.

PEREIRA: You're always in my heart, dear.

All right, 10 minutes before the hour. Donald Trump making a last minute push for votes ahead of today's Wisconsin primary. Will he claim victory again or is his campaign showing signs of cracking? Up next, we're going to speak with a Republican congressman from Wisconsin. He is not a Trump fan.

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[07:54:00] BERMAN: Can Donald Trump reach the magic 1,237 delegates to lock up the Republican nomination before the convention in July? Well, by the end of today we may know a lot more about if it is possible. After Wisconsin votes that delegate math could get much harder.

Joining us to discuss, Wisconsin Republican Congressman Reid Ribble. He has endorsed Sen. Ted Cruz in that state. Congressman, good morning. Thanks for being with us. You know Wisconsin. Let me just start out with a prediction. Give me a prediction about what will happen tonight.

REP. REID RIBBLE (R), WISCONSIN: I think you're going to see Wisconsin and you're going to see the polarity of Wisconsin. You're going to see Ted Cruz win on the Republican side and you're going to see Bernie Sanders win on the Democrat side. You're going to go about as far to the left and as conservative to the right as you can go. It reflects Wisconsin's polarity in politics right now.

BERMAN: Clean sweep for Ted Cruz? Does he get every last delegate there?

[07:55:00] RIBBLE: I wouldn't necessarily predict that, but it wouldn't surprise me if he gets them all. It will be interesting to see how he does in inner-city Milwaukee and in Dane county, near Madison.

BERMAN: Congressman, you are a long-time #NeverTrump guy.

RIBBLE: Yes.

BERMAN: You started that movement way before others did. You've long said you are not going to vote for Donald Trump. You were a recent addition to the Ted Cruz team, recently endorsing him. You have also questioned his electability in the past. Do you still have concerns that Ted Cruz might have electability issues?

RIBBLE: The one thing I've seen about Ted Cruz is that he's actually improving in the national polls and his numbers against Hillary Clinton are looking better and better every single week, and so some of those concerns have moved away from me. I believe that if Ted Cruz is the Republican nominee in the fall, he is likely the next president of the United States.

BERMAN: Ted Cruz says that when it gets to a convention, even if he doesn't have the majority of delegates on the first ballot, the only two options that Republicans will have at that convention, he says, are Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. And if anyone else, either John Kasich, Paul Ryan, your fellow congressman from Wisconsin -- anyone else tries to come in late and take it on the floor, that would be dishonest and not should be allowed. And he said there would be a revolt. Let's listen.

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SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This fevered pipedream of Washington that at the convention they will parachute in some white knight who will save the Washington establishment, it is nothing less than a pipedream. It ain't going to happen. If it did the people would, quite rightly, revolt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: First of all, do you agree with him that it should be Trump, Cruz, or no one else?

RIBBLE: I certainly think that that's where the delegate count is leading us to. I don't think it's going to be somebody from the outside, and Paul Ryan has been pretty clear himself, saying that listen, our Republican nominee ought to be somebody actually running for president. And so it is likely to be, and I would agree with Sen. Cruz -- it's likely to be -- one of the leading contenders at the convention is likely to be the winner. BERMAN: Likely is different than it must be, which is what Ted Cruz is saying. And he's saying if it's not there will be a revolt, and those are strong words. I don't know what he means by revolt. Does he mean a political revolt where people write strongly-worded letters or does he mean a literal revolt? You know, Donald Trump got into trouble when he suggested there'd be riots in Cleveland.

RIBBLE: I think you'd have to ask Sen. Cruz about that. But I do think that if you look at U.S. history, and I would take a little different tact than Sen. Cruz did, the convention delegates ultimately will be responsible for choosing if, in fact, it becomes contested.

It then becomes the responsibility of Sen. Cruz, and Donald Trump, and John Kasich, and those that have delegates, to convince those delegates at the convention that they should receive the majority of the votes. It's up to them to do the convincing, and the persuading, and the cajoling. And the one thing about Sen. Cruz is he's very, very good at the ground game and at grassroots, and it would not surprise me if he comes out of the convention with the nomination because of it.

BERMAN: Very, very strong organization, but to be clear, you do suggest he maybe went too far saying there'd be a revolt if it went to someone besides Ted Cruz or Donald Trump?

RIBBLE: Well, history would say that that's not the case, but I think you should ask Sen. Cruz about it directly.

BERMAN: And we will as soon as we can. I do have to ask you about something that happened in your state, Wisconsin, known for its cheese. Ted Cruz toured a cheese house, one of the most famous houses of cheese in your state, but he refused to put on a cheesehead. We have a picture of this right now. Was that a mistake, sir? Should he have not donned the cheese hat that his daughter did?

RIBBLE: You know, his daughter's pretty smart. I will tell you this. Up in Wisconsin, Green Bay Packers are the heart of Green Bay and the heart of Wisconsin, and certainly they're willing to take on anything in Texas, so he probably should have put it on but I see it all as good fun.

BERMAN: He says no hats in politics but you, Congressman, say it was a mistake. Congressman Reid Ribble, great to have you with us. Thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

RIBBLE: Good to be with you, John. Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, we are following a lot of news this morning. The polls set to open in Wisconsin in seconds. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to have a very, very big victory. Very, very big.

CRUZ: This is not the time for a circus sideshow. TRUMP: Let me be unpresidential just for a little while longer.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think they're becoming hysterical.

TRUMP: He ought to get the hell out, honestly.

CRUZ: It makes him feel like a very, very big man to threaten people.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're on our way to the White House.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've got a track record of proven results.

SANDERS: So I think the Secretary's getting very nervous.

CLINTON: I'm very confident that I will be the nominee.