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Cruz & Sanders Win Big in Wisconsin; Deciding Factors in Wisconsin Primary Explained. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 06, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New York City especially is the sort of place where this can become a real problem.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Yes. John Nichols, Dylan Barr (Ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I would just...

CAMEROTA: Sorry, Dylan, we're out of time, but thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No worries.

CAMEROTA: Appreciate you being here on NEW DAY. Talk to you guys again soon.

We're following a lot of news, including the results from the Wisconsin primaries, so let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted Cruz can't win. No way.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What an incredible victory tonight.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We won in Wisconsin.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We won some. He's won some. But I have 2.5 million more votes than he does.

TRUMP: This is a dirty business, this politics.

SANDERS: The facts are pretty clear. We have a path toward victory.

CLINTON: Trump may be the most outrageous. He is saying what all of them believe.

CRUZ: Let me just say, Hillary, get ready. Here we come.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. We begin with Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders winning big in Wisconsin and resetting the 2016 race. Both candidates dealing blows to their party's front-runners last night. Cruz calling it a turning point in his battle with Donald Trump. Trump's path to the nomination now not as certain as the delegate math is not adding up.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: On a Democratic side, big night, as well. Bernie Sanders decisively winning six of the last seven states now. But can he catch Hillary Clinton in terms of delegates? Does this mean it has to come down to super delegates? His now campaign line is this could go to a convention. That's something no one was talking about even a month ago.

So CNN has this covered the way only we can. Let's again with Christine Romans with a look at where the race stands right now. It is all about the numbers, my friend. Who better than you?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: It's all about the math, you're right. Wisconsin was a must-win for Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders. They both did just that. The state proving to be unfriendly territory for Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Let's look at the numbers.

Cruz's decisive victory in Wisconsin shaking up the Republican race. He won more than 48 percent of the vote. With 42 delegates up for grabs, Cruz will take 36 of those. Donald Trump will get 3 delegates for his second-place finish, which means he is still at the top of the board here on the delegate count.

But as we get into the home stretch, the math isn't adding up for him to clinch the nomination before the convention. This, of course, sets the stage for a delegate fight at an open convention with 16 primaries and caucuses to go. Sixteen to go. Trump will need to win 60 percent of the remaining pledged delegates to reach the magic number of 1,237. Not impossible but unlikely.

Turning now to the Democratic race, Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders coming in on top with 56 percent of that vote. That brings his number of pledged delegates to 1,066. A little more than 200 behind Hillary Clinton's pledged delegate total.

However, Clinton leads Sanders by a very, very wide margin among Democratic establishment super delegates. Now, assuming all of those super delegates remain committed to Hillary Clinton, she will need to win 36 percent of the remaining delegates, pledged delegates to clinch the nomination. But super delegates, they don't count until they vote on the convention floor.

The Sanders campaign hoping some of those super delegates jump ship. Both parties now facing the real possibility, the real possibility of not having a nominee before the start of their convention. When you thought it couldn't get any more interesting.

OK, Alisyn.

PEREIRA: I was just going to say, and then the intrigue builds. All right, Christine. Thanks so much for that. So Ted Cruz crushing Donald Trump in Wisconsin, making a contested

convention a real possibility. You know Trump is not going to go quietly. Phil Mattingly joins us live with more.

Hey, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Hey, Michaela.

Well, no chance at all he's going quietly. One thing we did know over the last week and a half was Ted Cruz really went all in in Wisconsin, an extensive team on the ground, the support of a very popular governor, and a series of conservative talk radio hosts who were constantly hammering home a pro-Cruz message.

Actually, it looked a lot like what he did in Iowa. And the results were similar.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary, get ready. Here we come.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Ted Cruz pulling off a big win in Wisconsin's Republican primary. The victory for Cruz narrowing Donald Trump's path to the nomination and moving the party ever closer to a contested convention.

CRUZ: Tonight is a turning point. It is a rallying cry.

MATTINGLY: Cruz's win the most substantial since his defeat of Trump in Iowa.

CRUZ: Three weeks ago, the media said Wisconsin was a perfect state for Donald Trump. But the hard-working men and women of Wisconsin stood and campaigned tirelessly to make sure that tonight was a victory for every American.

MATTINGLY: Trump now facing a nearly impossible mathematical challenge to amass the 1,237 delegates needed to capture the nomination. A rough week of political blunders, attack ads, and questions about his ability to be presidential loosening the front- runner's grip as the presumptive nominee.

[07:05:11] Former presidential candidate Lindsey Graham, who reluctantly backed Cruz, tweeting, "Well done, Ted Cruz. Hopefully tonight is the turning point to deny Donald Trump 1,237 delegates."

In the hours before polls closed, Trump hit the trail hard. It wasn't enough.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You could have a big surprise tonight, folks. Big surprise.

MATTINGLY: Trump's campaign mostly silent after his loss, only releasing a biting statement against the Cruz campaign, saying in part, "Lying Ted Cruz had the governor of Wisconsin, many conservative talk radio show hosts, and the entire party apparatus behind him," going on to say, "Ted Cruz is worse than a puppet. He's a Trojan horse, being used by the party bosses attempting to steal the nomination from Mr. Trump."

Cruz, meanwhile, celebrating his big win.

CRUZ: My wife Heidi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heidi!

MATTINGLY: Ensuring she shares the spotlight after Trump retweeted an unflattering photo of her, which he later acknowledged was a mistake.

CRUZ: I may be biased, but isn't she going to make an amazing first lady?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Now, the Republican race comes east, coming right here, New York State. Ninety-five delegates will be at stake here. And Donald Trump, obviously from here. His advisors are not trying to hold down expectations at all, some predicting that he could win as many as 90 delegates. That's the type of thing that could happen two weeks from now.

It would maybe help him seize the momentum back. But guys, really no question at all: what happened in Wisconsin sets the stage for a very, very important and interesting convention in Cleveland. Perhaps an open one.

CAMEROTA: Just gets interestinger and interestinger.

PEREIRA: Excellent grammar.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

Thanks, Phil.

All right. As for the Democrats, Bernie Sanders with another victory under his belt, following his decisive win in Wisconsin. He has now beat Hillary Clinton in six of the last seven states. The race now turns to the delegate-rich New York, as you've heard, where both rivals have ties.

So CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny has more. How is it looking, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, guys.

I mean, if you look up in the dictionary, at least on the Democratic side, under winning streak, Bernie Sanders's name would be on that list, at least for now. He is coming off a string of wins here. And that is what he hopes propels him to the New York primary, which is the next stop here in just a couple weeks.

But Bernie Sanders last night was in Wyoming. The caucuses in Wyoming are on Saturday coming up. He believes that will be another win for him that will extend his streak. And he talked a lot about that winning streak last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: With our victory tonight in Wisconsin, we have now won seven out of eight of the last caucuses. And we have won almost all of them with overwhelming landslide numbers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Now, if only the rules allowed for the number of wins, he would be in a better position.

The reality here this morning is that Hillary Clinton still has a strong lead in pledged delegates. And those are the rules. That's why the Clinton campaign is not licking their wounds necessarily but planning ahead. They're going to try and -- and sort of disqualify him in the words of one aide to show that he's not acceptable as the nominee.

But last night, she did not speak at all. She simply sent out a tweet. Let's take a look at this.

She said, "Congrats to Bernie Sanders on winning Wisconsin. To all the voters and volunteers who poured your hearts into this campaign, forward." And forward she is looking to that New York primary, which of course, is her ultimate firewall -- guys.

CUOMO: All right, Jeff, thank you very much.

Wisconsin Democrats and Republicans did more than exercise their franchise in Tuesday's primary. They also told us why they voted the way they did on issues like terrorism and immigration.

Christine Romans is back with the deciding factors in Wisconsin's primary. Christine, I left the one that is at the top of the list for you to announce.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

Ted Cruz winning across the board with basically all voters on all issues here. Terrorism, the top issue for 30 percent of voters. Terrorism. Cruz did very well with those voters, winning 50 percent. Donald Trump far behind in that category.

The temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States widely supported by Wisconsin GOP voters. Near 7 in 10 say they favor it. Ted Cruz narrowly -- narrowly won this group, 49 percent broke for Cruz. Just 43 percent favored Trump. Remember, this is one of Donald Trump's signature policy proposals, but it broke for Cruz. It's a question we wouldn't even be asking if Trump hadn't brought it up.

One wrinkle in Ted Cruz's big night, though, with voters who support deportation for illegal immigrants. Only 34 percent support that measure. And Donald Trump eking out a victory among those who support deportation. Forty-nine percent said Trump is their man, 45 percent who broke for Ted Cruz.

[07:10:03] On the Democratic side, you know, a big win for Bernie Sanders. The Sanders camp say he's gaining momentum, with seven wins in the past eight contests against Hillary Clinton. But the voters in Wisconsin, they told us they think Hillary Clinton is the best candidate to take on Donald Trump. She bests Bernie Sanders by 11 percentage points in the question of who has a better chance to beat Donald Trump in the fall, you guys.

CAMEROTA: OK, Christine. Thanks for breaking all of that down for us. So let's discuss what happened last night. We want to bring in Tim Miller. He's a former Jeb Bush spokesman and an adviser to an anti-Trump super PAC. And CNN's political commentator Jeffrey Lord, former Reagan White House political director and Donald Trump supporter.

Gentleman, great to have you here.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Aly.

CAMEROTA: Good morning. OK, so Jeffrey, I'll start with you. Ted Cruz called last night a turning point. Is that how you would characterize it?

LORD: Not yet. I mean, he won a great victory; there's no question. And congratulations to Senator Cruz and Heidi Cruz. But on we go.

And, you know, I've already heard Chris discussing this this morning. I thought this was a mistake when I heard it the first time in Iowa. But the New York values crack, that's just not going to play well in New York. I mean, I've got a lot of New York relatives. They're not too keen on Ted Cruz, I can tell you, because of that remark. And I'm sure that that clip of Ted Cruz saying that is going to be played over and over and over again in New York media.

CAMEROTA: Tim, how do you characterize what happened with Ted Cruz and Donald Trump last night?

TIM MILLER, ADVISER TO ANTI-TRUMP SUPER PAC: Sure. For starters, I wish Donald Trump was as gracious following defeat as Jeffrey was right there. He sent out a typically childish statement where he made false claims about Ted Cruz last night, again, as usual.

CAMEROTA: We have it. And let me stop you for just a second there, Tim, because I do think that, in case people missed it, I do want to read a portion of it for them. It's an interesting statement. So here's just a portion.

MILLER: "Interesting" is one word of it.

CAMEROTA: Here's just a portion of what he said. In fact, I mean, he sort of refers to you, Tim. I mean, not by name. But in part, so let me read it.

"Not only was Cruz propelled by the anti-Trump super PACs spending countless millions of dollars on false advertising against Mr. Trump, but he was coordinating with his own super PACs, which is illegal, who totally control him. Ted Cruz is worse than a puppet. He is a Trojan horse being used by the party bosses attempting to steal the nomination from Mr. Trump."

So Tim, just take -- and let's just talk about that. He -- he...

MILLER: He sounded like a fifth grader who lost a class election following -- with that statement last night. It's just -- his behavior continues to get lower and lower as the campaign goes on.

But I'd say this in response to the substance of it. You know, with regards to Ted Cruz, we're sitting here in Washington. And I'll tell you, the establishment in Washington hates it. And if you're a Mitch McConnell type or one of the U.S. senators in D.C., they don't like Ted Cruz, because they stood up to the establishment there in D.C.

And if you look at the results from the voters, Donald Trump does the worst not among establishment-friendly voters but among very conservative voters, among weekly churchgoers, among suburban women. Because these voters who have is core values are turned off by Donald Trump. And those are the people standing up to Donald Trump, not the establishment.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Jeffrey, what is Donald Trump's evidence that Ted Cruz is committing a federal crime by coordinating...

MILLER: He has none.

CAMEROTA: Well, Jeffrey, what do you think is...?

LORD: I don't know. I saw the statement for the first time last night. So I honestly don't know.

CAMEROTA: You don't know of any coordination?

LORD: No, I don't. I mean, I'm just hearing this, you know, last night for the first time. I don't know.

I will -- I will say that there is -- I don't really think super PACs are a great idea. I think they ought to get rid of them, and candidates ought to be responsible for their campaigns.

But there is always, perpetually, the feeling that super PACs, unrelated to anybody specifically, are somehow, you know, sending winks and nods to the candidate here. And that's not a good thing.

You know, one other thing here, Aly. The Republican establishment hates Ted Cruz. They can't stand him. I notice that the statement from Senator Graham that was put out here in relation to the Wisconsin victory, he congratulated Ted Cruz on stopping Donald Trump. He didn't say anything about Ted Cruz would make a really great president.

CAMEROTA: Oh.

LORD: And so the -- and so the notion here that Donald Trump is saying that Ted Cruz is a Trojan horse, I really do believe that. I mean, I don't think Senator Cruz believes that. But I believe there's all kinds of people there this minute, trying to figure out how to defeat both of them.

CAMEROTA: I think Lindsey Graham has been very clear that he might be holding his nose when it comes...

MILLER: I actually think Jeffrey made my point. That Donald -- that that is not true. I don't know. Maybe Donald Trump doesn't know what a Trojan horse is. But it's absolutely ridiculous to think that Ted Cruz would do the bidding of the establishment in D.C. when he's gotten under their skin every time.

LORD: He would do it.

MILLER: He is a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) conservative. And frankly, a lot of the establishment folks in D.C. would have rather had a different candidate.

But here we are, and Ted Cruz is at least a conservative, someone who we know where he stands, who has conservative values. And unlike Donald Trump...

CAMEROTA: Tim, I want to...

LORD: He wouldn't do it knowingly. He wouldn't do it knowingly. But he'd be used. That's my point.

CAMEROTA: Tim, I want to ask you a question. Because in terms of your anti-Trump super PAC where he says not only was Cruz propelled by the super PAC spending countless millions of dollars on false advertising against Mr. Trump. Obviously you don't think it was false advertising. But how much credit do you take for what happened in Wisconsin with your ads?

MILLER: Look, what we're trying to do is put out a message to voters so they understand the truth about Donald Trump. The ads that we ran in Wisconsin were the furthest thing from false. They were pretty straightforward.

It was Donald Trump and his own words about the women, demeaning remarks he's made about women. And the fact that, in Donald Trump's private-sector life, he hasn't looked out for the regular voter. In fact, at every opportunity, he's outsourced jobs rather than creating jobs in America.

So that's what we were putting forth to the voters.

I think what was telling in Wisconsin was that Republicans and conservatives from talk radio to Scott Walker, to Reid Ribble, stood up and spoke clearly about how Republicans and conservatives need to reject Donald Trump. And I hope that, in future states, more elected officials speak as clearly as Scott Walker and Reid Ribble did, because I think that made a big difference.

CAMEROTA: So Jeffrey, what do you think all of that means moving forward to New York?

LORD: Well, I think in Wisconsin, they had everything. They had a great organization, the Cruz folks. They had the governor, they had everybody on their side.

The ground is now shifting to New York. And beyond New York, I live in Pennsylvania, where Donald Trump is doing fairly well.

I think Governor Kasich, who we're leaving out of this conversation, in essence, who was a native Pennsylvanian, is going to eat into Ted Cruz's situation here.

And, again, Senator Cruz went out of his way to slam New York values, which loosely translated, are northeastern values. The values of people in Pennsylvania, and Delaware, and Connecticut, and Rhode Island. So I think he's going to have a hard sell there.

And I really do think that was a mistake.

MILLER: I'd say, look, for starters, New York is Donald Trump's home state. It's kind of baked in the cake that he's going to win there. We -- we expect that as we look at and game out the delegate strategy, just as Ted Cruz won Texas, John Kasich won Ohio.

And you know, this comment about New York values, here's the thing. Rank and file Republicans, conservative Republican voters know exactly what he means when he's talking about the New York media and how that's out of step with Republican values.

LORD: But Tim...

MILLER: And so I don't think that's going to affect Donald -- excuse me, Ted Cruz at all.

LORD: But Tim, Ronald Reagan carried New York state. How do you expect, if Ted Cruz is the nominee, to carry New York state in a fall election?

MILLER: I'm actually glad you brought up the general election. Recent general election polls show Donald Trump only winning Mississippi by three. Forget New York. He's going to lose New York by 30. He can barely win red states. He's losing Utah in a most recent poll, because Mormons can see right through Donald Trump. And they see that he's a fraud. And they don't trust him in Utah and conservative, you know, faithful church-going voters out in Utah and Idaho, you, my friend, would get killed in the general election.

LORD: These charges are going to be raised against Ted Cruz himself.

CAMEROTA: All right.

LORD: I mean, by the establishment folks. So buckle in.

CAMEROTA: All right, guys. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We'll look towards New York right now. Tim, Jeffrey, thank you very much for being here. MILLER: Thanks.

LORD: Thanks, Aly.

CAMEROTA: Let's get to Michaela.

PEREIRA: Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders is ready to ride the momentum after defeating Hillary Clinton in Wisconsin. But can he win the next big battleground, New York, and catch up to her on delegates? We'll discuss that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:22:45] SANDERS: With our victory tonight in Wisconsin, we have now won seven out of eight of the last caucuses. And we have won almost all of them with overwhelming landslide numbers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: The senator is correct. The question is what does it mean? There's no question that last night Wisconsin a big win, continuing the streak for the Vermont senator. Hillary Clinton, though, still has a big delegate lead.

And a lot of this about math but also momentum, such that we now have the Sanders campaign saying maybe the convention will be contested.

We have CNN political commentator Van Jones; and former press secretary to first lady Hillary Clinton and deputy assistant to President Bill Clinton, Lisa Caputo.

It's good to have you. Caputo, good to have you. Van, so let's start with you. Your man won, Van. You've got all of them this morning, right? We know Caputo is (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

So if this is momentum, what does it really mean? When you look at the math, it does not seem to be an inclusion of a path to victory for Bernie Sanders out right, or is it?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, first of all, he had a great night. He's had a great run. But New York will be the war to settle is the score. Both of them have to do well here. She's got to win. She's got to win big here. But he also has to be able to prove that he can do well in a big state.

And so what you're going to see is last night you got -- so he's trying to wave a little bit of the white flag. He's like, "Hey, listen, let's nice. I'm not going to say anything mean about you."

Hillary Clinton put out a statement: "We are coming for Bernie Sanders."

What you're going to see is a big clash here. Why? Bernie Sanders believes that he is the better general election candidate. He believes that Hillary Clinton is going to be flagging, failing, stumbling, and that he's going to have the momentum going in. He thinks the super delegates will then swing to him, and he will be the best general election candidate. But if he gets destroyed here in New York, that argument goes away.

CUOMO: How far in that direction did "The Daily News" take him? "How would you break up the banks?"

"I don't know."

"How would you deal with ISIS when you capture people?"

"I haven't thought about it."

[07:25:00] JONES: I'll tell you what. Luckily that happened to him on paper and not on camera. Had that happened to him on camera, this campaign would have almost been over. He can recover from that; he can learn from that. But I'll tell you what: New York is the real deal. The New York media is going to vet this guy in a way he's never been vetted. And he's got to get ready for the big game.

CUOMO: So Lisa, Van doing a little bit of your work for you there. But you know, to be fair, the campaign has been saying for a while, "We're not going to win in Wisconsin. Sanders is going to win. Then we're going to move into the Northeast, and everything changes."

They did, if nothing else, a better job managing expectations before Wisconsin than perhaps in earlier states, although I don't think they saw the range being what it was last night. What's your take on why the news is still bright for the secretary?

LISA CAPUTO, FORMER HILLARY CLINTON PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I think a couple of things, Chris. First, you mentioned it earlier, the math. I mean, the math is on her side.

She's locked up a ton of super delegates. And the lead she has over Senator Sanders, from a delegate standpoint, is substantial.

Second, I think you really need to peel back the onion and look at the exit polls last night. She is leading handily among African-Americans and Hispanics. Moreover, it's really important to note that the experience argument for her is very much playing in her favor. Democrats voting for a person they feel is more experienced and much better in a position to lead the country.

And third, Democrats who favor continuing President Obama's policies are in favor of Hillary Clinton.

I do want to talk a little bit about going into New York. New York critical, as Van said. You have New York, New Jersey, and California, all huge delegate-rich states. And I think you're going to see Secretary Clinton, who represented the state for eight years, talking about her record, talking about what she brought home for citizens in the state of New York.

And also don't underestimate that New York media. Senator Sanders didn't do himself any favors in that "New York Daily News" interview. Print or TV, it's out there. It's public record, and it was very damaging.

CUOMO: There was other stuff in the numbers, too, though, last night. First of all, Sanders won Wisconsin. You can say it's over-weighted white. That's fine. But the state is what it is.

And in terms of who voted last night, for Sanders, they think he'd be a better commander in chief. We haven't seen that.

Also, 14 percent of people who voted in Wisconsin said, "I'm excited about Hillary Clinton."

JONES: Yes.

CUOMO: That's a troubling number, no matter what happens. These are Democrats we're talking about.

JONES: Listen, absolutely. Their -- Sanders has strengths that any candidate would want. The enthusiasm for Sanders is just palpable. He has those younger voters.

And also, don't forget: here in New York City, you do have a very strong progressive left voice. Zephyr Teachout, who went after your brother...

CUOMO: Very effectively.

JONES: Very effectively.

CUOMO: And that party machine from the Working Families Party...

JONES: Is no joke.

CUOMO: ... energized in a way I have not seen it.

JONES: Listen, and Danny Cantor, I've known that guy for 20 years. He's one of the best political operatives on earth. And he is going to be all in for Sanders.

So there are traps for her; there are problems for her. And New York City is a place where some of her record, when you talk about whether it's criminal justice, or welfare repeal or NAFTA, is going to get a big, strong look.

And so you're going to -- this is it. New York City is the place that you're going to see -- it's going to be the world of sport (ph). You've got two weeks. Both camps dug in, battling each other. This is going to be the state where you figure out does Hillary Clinton have the ability to take this guy out?

CUOMO: Lisa, add some more hype to the fire for me. I'm really getting into it right now. I may stay in New York for the next two straight weeks.

CAPUTO: You -- you and me both. I think a couple of things. And it is important to look at "The Daily News" interview. The fact of the matter is, when you're running for president, you've got to put forth substantive policy proposals.

And what was damaging, I think, in that interview, just objectively if you look at it, when you have your core bread-and-butter issue being an attack on Wall Street and breaking up the big banks, and then when you're pressed by a member of the media, "What would you do? What would your policy be?" And you can't answer, and you don't know what the regulatory statutes are, what the laws are, what is the power of the Fed, the president and the Congress. Your bread-and-butter issue. That's a problem.

JONES: The good thing about...

CAPUTO: Second, on foreign policy. Well, hang on.

CUOMO: Make your final point, Lisa.

CAPUTO: On foreign policy -- yes, foreign policy, "What would you do on Israel and Palestine?"

Well, he said, "I'm not running to run the government of Israel."

"What would you do if you captured an ISIS commander?"

"I don't know where I'd put him in prison."

Also, the gun issue very important in New York. You know, he again supported immunity for gun manufacturers. So these issues are going to come home to roost in New York, I think, and throughout the rest of the primary.

CUOMO: Final point, Van Jones.

JONES: The good thing is that, on those policy questions, he can get an answer to those questions. He can have them by tonight. Even Donald Trump with his fantasy wall was able to come up with a policy prescription to pay for it. So that's not going to be his problem. He can deal with that.

The challenge is just you're going to be head to head for two weeks in the capital of the world. And there's an opportunity for either side to make a mistake here, and a mistake here will cost you big-time.

CUOMO: Lisa, Van, thank you. And how great is it for you...