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New Day
Ted Cruz Wins Wisconsin Republican Primary; Bernie Sanders Wins Wisconsin Democratic Primary; Possibility of Contested Republican Convention Examined; Delegate Math Still a Problem for Sanders Campaign. Aired 8-8:30a ET
Aired April 06, 2016 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: It's great to have you on NEW DAY. Welcome to the family. There's tons to talk to you about. We're going to have you on plenty. Thanks for setting us straight on how the delegates work.
MIKE SHIELDS, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN ACTION NETWORK: Thank you.
CUOMO: That is a big issue. You are going to hear a lot about the numbers this morning because of what happened in Wisconsin. So let's get to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have now won seven out of eight of the last caucuses and primaries.
(APPLAUSE)
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tonight is a turning point. It is a rallying cry.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, if I lose, I lose. I wouldn't feel good about it.
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Believe me, the world is listening to our presidential election.
SANDERS: Yes, we can change the status quo.
TRUMP: I've won millions of votes. Everybody likes Trump.
CLINTON: We've run a campaign on the issues compared to insults.
CRUZ: We once again have hope for the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Wednesday, April 6, now 8:00 in the east. The election for president is different today than it was yesterday. Underdogs Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders are now more in the hunt than ever. Both posting double digit wins in the critical Wisconsin primary, Cruz calling it a turning point in his campaign. Trump's path to the nomination more complicated as the delegate fight will likely go to a contested convention.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: On the other side, Bernie Sanders is riding a hot streak, winning seven of the last eight contests, easily defeating Hillary Clinton in Wisconsin. Next up, delegate rich New York. Can Clinton stop Sanders' momentum? And will Democrats also face a contested convention?
We have this election covered the way only CNN can, so let's begin with Christine Romans breaking down where the race stands now. Hi, Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, you guys. Wisconsin was a must win for Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders and they both did just that. The state proving to be unfriendly territory for Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Let's look on these numbers. Cruz's decisive victory in Wisconsin shaking up the Republican race here. He won more than 48 percent with 42 delegates up for grabs. Cruz will take 36 of those. Donald Trump will get three delegates for his second place finish, which means he is still on top of the delegate pile here. But as we get into the home stretch the math isn't adding up for him to clinch the nomination before the convention. This of course sets the stage for a delegate fight at an open convention. With 16 primaries and caucuses to go, 16 to go, Trump will need to win 60 percent of the remaining pledged delegates to reach that magic number of 1,247, not impossible, but unlikely.
Turning now to the Democratic side, in that race Bernie Sanders with a sweeping victory with more than 56 percent of the vote. That brings his number of pledged delegates to 1,066, a little more than 200 behind Hillary Clinton's pledged delegate total. However, Clinton leads Sanders by a very wide margin among Democratic establishment super delegates. Assuming all the super delegates stay committed to their candidates, Hillary Clinton needs only abo 36 percent of the remaining delegates to clinch the nomination. But super delegates don't count until they vote on the convention floor. The Sanders campaign hoping some of those super delegates will jump ship. Both parties now facing the real possibility of not having a nominee before the start of their convention. It's so interesting, Michaela.
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: It really is. So we'll pick up there, Christine. Cruz has won over Trump, making an open convention more likely. But you think Trump will give up without a fight, right? Said no one, ever. Phil Mattingly is here now with more on that.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Michaela. Well, Ted Cruz and his campaign made no secret of the fact that Wisconsin was a huge state for them. They had a very big operation on the ground. They had the support of a very popular Republican governor in Scott Walker, and they had a series of conservative talk radio hosts who were constantly hammering home a pro Cruz message. As a matter of fact it looked an awful lot like what Ted Cruz and his campaign did in Iowa, and so are the results.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary, get ready. Here we come.
(APPLAUSE)
MATTINGLY: Ted Cruz pulling off a big win in Wisconsin's Republican primary, the victory for Cruz narrowing Trump's path to the in nomination and moving the party ever closer to a contested convention.
CRUZ: Tonight is a turning point. It is a rallying cry.
MATTINGLY: Cruz's win the most substantial since his defeat of Trump in Iowa.
CRUZ: Three weeks ago the media said Wisconsin was a perfect state for Donald Trump.
(BOOS)
CRUZ: But the hard working men and women of Wisconsin stood and campaigned tirelessly to make sure tonight was a victory for every American.
(APPLAUSE)
MATTINGLY: Trump now facing a nearly impossible mathematical challenge to amass the 1,237 delegates need to capture the nomination. A rough week of political blunders, attack ads, and questions about his ability to be presidential loosening the frontrunner's grip as the presumptive nominee.
[08:05:05] Former presidential candidate Lindsey Graham who reluctantly backed Cruz, tweeting "Well done, Ted Cruz. Hopefully tonight is the turning point to deny Donald Trump 1,237 delegates."
In the hours before polls closed Trump hit the trail hard. It wasn't enough.
TRUMP: We could have a big surprise tonight, folks, big surprise.
MATTINGLY: Trump's campaign mostly silent after the loss, only releasing a biting statement against the Cruz campaign, saying in part, "Lying Ted Cruz had the governor of Wisconsin, many conservative talk show hosts, and the entire party behind him," going on to say "Ted Cruz is worse than a puppet. He's a Trojan horse being used by the party bosses attempting to steal the nomination from Mr. Trump."
Cruz meanwhile celebrating his big win.
CRUZ: My wife Heidi.
MATTINGLY: Ensuring she shares the spotlight after Trump re-tweeted an unflattering photo of her which he later acknowledged was a mistake.
CRUZ: I may be biased, but isn't she going to make an amazing first lady?
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: All eyes in the Republican primary are turning right here, New York, the next big primary, April 19th, 95 delegates at stake. I talked to one of Trump's advisors who said they believe they could win as many as 90 of them. And the map only gets better for them in the weeks after that, all east coast primaries, places where they feel Ted Cruz doesn't have as good of a shot as they do, places where Donald Trump can hopefully regain that momentum. But, guys, no question about it. Last night a big night for Ted Cruz and a big night for anybody who's a huge fan of a possible contested convention in Cleveland.
PEREIRA: Thanks so much. We appreciate that.
Let's turn to the Democratic race now. Bernard with another decisive win in Wisconsin. He's now defeated Hillary Clinton in six of the last seven states. The race now shifts to New York where both rivals have ties. Jeff Zeleny is here with more.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela. Bernie Sanders is starting to get used to this, and that is winning. You could see the look on his face last night as he was speaking in Wyoming. That's the site of the next contest on Saturday. But all eyes are on New York, that New York primary where he hopes a win could actually stop or slow the momentum of Hillary Clinton for the lead in delegates. But listen to what Bernie Sanders said last night as he talked to supporters there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Please keep this a secret. Do not tell Secretary Clinton. She's getting a little nervous, and I don't want her to get more nervous. But I believe we've got an excellent chance to win New York and a lot of delegates in that state.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: Now, the voters of New York of course will make that final decision there. Bernie Sanders knows he has a much tougher race here in New York. But the reality here is the mood in this Democratic contest has changed. The math remains the same but the mood has changed somewhat. The Clinton campaign I'm told is going to be more aggressively defining and disqualifying him, in the words of one aide, Bernie Sanders. So the next two weeks here so competitive her because Hillary Clinton knows this is her firewall if there ever, ever was one. Alisyn?
CAMEROTA: It is going to be very interesting to be in New York and read all of the New York media and see how these weeks unfold. Jeff, thanks so much for that. We are getting a clearer picture of the mood and the issues on the minds of voters in Wisconsin. Democrats and Republicans concerned with bread and butter. Christine Romans is back with the deciding factors in the Wisconsin primary. What did you find, Christine?
ROMANS: Kitchen table economics. The economy issue number one for voters in Wisconsin. Something we've seen in almost every state so far. And 37 percent of Democratic voters put the economy and jobs at the very top of their list, followed by government spending, terrorism, and immigration.
Of those voters who said the economy and jobs are number one, 54 percent voted for Bernie Sanders, eight points more than Hillary Clinton. On the Republican side, voters say they are fearful, fearful about the future of the U.S. economy. We have seen that play out in every contest so far. And look how frightened they are -- 94 percent say they are worried. And of that 94 percent, voters broke decisively for Cruz.
Now, that is a big win for him because that issue has been Trump's calling card. Trump has repeatedly one those voters this election cycle, but this time it went for Cruz. Trade a very important subject for Republicans and Democrats. More than half of all Republican voters say trade with other countries kills U.S. jobs. Donald Trump won those voters. He has the most states. But look at this, Trump's victory over Cruz very slim, 43 percent to 42 percent, very slim. And a big change. Trump usually absolutely dominates, Chris, with that group.
CUOMO: Let's discuss Wisconsin specifically from the Republican perspective.
[08:10:00] Senator Ted Cruz asked the voters there in the historic words of Phife Dawg, "Can I kick it?" The resounding answer, yes you can. Let's discuss with CNN political commentator Ana Navarro as well as Trump surrogate, national political commentator for USA Radio Networks Scottie Nell Hughes and Ted Cruz national spokesperson Ron Nehring. Don't spend your time Googling who I just referenced. Let's just discuss the election. Ana, we have a Cruz person, we have a Trump person, and yet you may be the most important person here this morning not because you are sitting next to me, but because Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush now relevant again. What do you believe to be the state of play in this race?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it is completely up in the air. I think it is getting increasingly unlikely anybody is going to get to 1,237. Open convention is looking more probable. And if we don't have a presumptive nominee, if we don't have somebody that has 1,237 plus one --
CUOMO: Going in.
NAVARRO: We're going into an open convention. It is going to mean that after on the first ballot, nobody wins on the first ballot, then the second ballot it is poaching, it is poaching of delegates. It strategic. It is courting. It is lobbying. You are going to see what we haven't seen in years happen, and it is going to happen in front of live TV with social media for the first time.
CUOMO: It is going to be a real convention. If that happens, it is a real convention, we're talking about John Kasich in his role there because he's in third, but he's not in third. Marco Rubio is in third. And that is going to be a big state of play here. Ron Nehring, let me go to you on this. How big a part of your campaign calculus, even though you got your win last night in Wisconsin, you have momentum presumptively, to use that word in a different context, but Marco Rubio's delegates, Jeb Bush's supporters, people still up for grabs in Arizona, Louisiana. We know you are working them. What is the calculus?
RON NEHRING, TED CRUZ NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: It is the principle that is important, which is that the Republican nominee for president and vice president as well needs to have the support of the majority of the Republican Party as represented through the delegates who were elected and sent to the convention.
At the end of the day the Republican nominee is either going to be Donald Trump, in which case we go onto a disastrous general election the likes of which we have never seen before, or it is going to be Ted Cruz, in which case we can defeat Hillary Clinton and hold control of Congress and win a lot of down ticket offices as well. It is going to be one of those two people. Any notion that it is going to be some candidate who's not appeared on the ballot or dropped out long ago or even that it is going to be John Kasich just isn't realistic. At the end of the day it's going to be one of these two candidates, and last night with a big win in Wisconsin it is dramatically more likely that that is going to be Ted Cruz.
CUOMO: Scottie Nell Hughes, you do not agree with anything that Mr. Nehring just said. Tell us why.
SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TRUMP SURROGATE: I wish I was as optimistic as Mr. Nehring is, but he's absolutely in oblivious if he doesn't believe that these delegates going in are going to be 100 percent behind either Senator Ted Cruz or Mr. Trump.
Listen you look -- it's now about quality, not quantity if we do go into this brokered convention. And we are finding in state like I saw in Tennessee where you had people who openly ran for Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio delegates, replacing those delegate spots that were aimed for Ted Cruz and Donald Trump. There is truly a Trojan horse in the room right now. And like Ana pointed out, it is anybody's game. And it depends on these state Republican laws.
You have to realize, in Wisconsin, the delegates were already elected prior to yesterday. They are just bound until the one-third vote takes place on the first or second ballot. But they have already been chosen, and you know they are probably going to be more favorable towards people like Paul Ryan and governor Scott Walker if given that opportunity over a Ted Cruz or a Donald Trump.
NAVARRO: Let me tell you something, Scottie, any Hispanic woman worth her salt will tell you there is nothing better than being courted, and being courted by many people is so much better than being courted by one person.
CUOMO: Is that just a Latino thing, by the way?
NAVARRO: I can only speak from personal experience. I think Italian might be as well. They might be bound on the first ballot. But if nobody wins in that first ballot it is an open game. And you are --
CUOMO: Scottie's point is, let me reframe quickly. Scottie's point is nobody is more loyal than a Trump person. We know in the polls that 70 plus percent of people who vote him, we never see numbers like that, say I'll never vote for anybody else. It doesn't matter what he does. Right or wrong, that's where they are. Why wouldn't the delegates follow suit?
NAVARRO: First of all, because it is nice to be courted. It's nice to be wanted, because we are going to be in uncharted territory. And because I think at that point you are going to have -- you are going to be in pioneering ground. I do think that the Trump delegates, the people that are Trump people are Trump people. They are not going anywhere. But if they don't get to a majority, Ted Cruz has a chance, John Kasich has a chance. Anybody has a chance. And I would not underestimate Ted Cruz's strategic ability. In places he has proven to have the best ground game, the best data mining. They have got a good, good organization. And Donald Trump needs to build up on his.
[08:15:07] CUOMO: So Scottie, Anna appears to be making the Cruz case. So let me skip over Mr. Nehring for a second --
NAVARRO: Oh God, is that what I'm going?
CUOMO: You said you like to be courted and it's happening right here before my eyes.
NEHRING: What's that all about?
CUOMO: So Scottie, how do you deal with the organization advantage that Cruz has? We've seen it work in the past. It could be at work right now.
HUGHES: But you only get courted if you have that option. These state rules, like in Tennessee, the delegates are bound until the third vote. A lot of these states are that same way. So it's not until they reach that third ballot. They still have to stick with their candidate. But what we're finding are even Cruz slots are being replaced by people that are Rubio and others. So even if they -- they are going under the pretension that they are a Cruz support or under the name that they're a Trump supporter and in reality they have openly bashed both candidates and we're finding that in states across the United States.
So nobody right now can be completely -- even Trump people -- I cannot be completely sure are really Trump folks. That is why you are seeing the Trump campaign building up and building up this side and make sure that their delegates are truly Trump supporters and that is hard when you have state parties manipulating rules, allowing people to come in that are not necessarily Trump supporters or Cruz supporters. NEHRING: Oh, here we go with the blaming the rules and blaming the party --
CUOMO: All right so --
HUGHES: It happened, though. It has happened. Cruz is in just as much trouble as Trump people are.
(CROSSTALK)
NEHRING: Blame somebody else. It's always somebody else's fault whenever Donald Trump loses.
HUGHES: It's not -- Really?
NEHRING: It's always somebody else's fault. It's always the party --
HUGHES: Is there is a Cruz --
(CROSSTALK)
NEHRING: -- so on and so forth.
HUGHES: It's not a blame game. It's called the truth.
NEHRING: You know, whenever Donald Trump loses -- Look, whenever Donald Trump loses one of these elections --
HUGHES: This has nothing to do with --
CUOMO: Scottie, let Mr. Nehring talk. Go ahead.
NEHRING: Let's not forget, just two days ago Donald Trump predicted -- in fact yesterday he predicted that there would be a big surprise, that he was going to win in the state of Wisconsin. And then when he loses, the Trump campaign always has to blame somebody else. The rules or somebody is trying to steal something or this or that, it's the weather. Who knows. There is always somebody else to blame.
Look, there's a reason why Wisconsin was an inflection point in this campaign last night. And that is because Wisconsin -- nobody was paying more attention to the candidates in this race for the last two weeks than the voters of the state of Wisconsin. Every candidate was here. Every candidate tried to win. Even John Kasich tried to win here. Donald Trump added three events. He boosted his media buy, he brought his wife in to campaign with him, he did everything that he could to try to win and he got shellacked last night by 13 points.
Why is that? It's not just because of superior organization on the part of the Cruz campaign or Governor Walker, who's support is very much appreciated and was important, but the ultimate -- at the end of the day, Ted Cruz won here because of the superiority of his message and the fact that he's a better candidate and the Republicans in this state rejected Donald Trump after all of the things that he did.
People in this state got to know all of the candidates equally well. They embraced Ted Cruz, they rejected Donald Trump and that is why this race is a completely new ball going forward.
CUOMO: Ron, Scottie, Ana, thank you very much. That is a very good taste of the state of play and where things are going to go from here.
Mick.
PEREIRA: All right. A couple other headlines to let you know of.
Iceland's prime minister seemingly the first casualty of the so-called "Panama Papers." Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson resigned Tuesday in the face of widening protests accused of concealing millions of dollars in investments in off-shore accounts after being implicated in that massive document leak. And the Panamanian law firm, where the Panama Papers originated, now being linked to more than 1,100 U.S. companies.
Amy Schumer in a battle with "Glamour" magazine. The actress and comedian said she was never told that she'd be featured in "Glamour's" plus-size issue. In an Instagram porsh (ph) -- post, rather -- Schumer says there's nothing wrong with being plus-size, but she's between a size 6 and 8. Plus-size is being 12 and up. She doesn't want young girls looking at her size and thinking that is plus-size. She went on to (inaudible) body labels in general, saying they're only reserved for women. (Inaudible) "Glamour" magazine says it wasn't about Schumer's weight, rather how her message of body positivity inspires women.
CUOMO: Let's hear it.
PEREIRA: Don't even get me started. We only have 40 minutes left in the show. I could go all day with this.
CUOMO: Is Schumer right or is the magazine right?
PEREIRA: She's absolutely right. And it is disingenuous for them to try and label somebody plus-size. Plus-size is above 12. And to be perfectly honest, I think it is time for us to get rid of the word "plus-size" anyway. How about just "size?" Huh?
CAMEROTA: I mean, I thought it was interesting that she said we don't ever categorize men by their sizes. That is interesting. I hadn't thought of that. But it's true.
PEREIRA: Exactly.
CUOMO: I would take muy macho as a size.
PEREIRA: Is that your size?
CAMEROTA: Which you do insist upon.
PEREIRA: (Inaudible) the label of his shirt, actually.
CUOMO: It's a (inaudible) label. Bernie Sanders' momentum after Wisconsin ultimately put a dent in Hillary Clinton's lead. That is a proposition that the Sanders campaign says is true. Is there any substance to it? We can break it down in the numbers. [08:19:52] We will do so, muy macho, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: The Sanders campaign getting a big boost from his win in Wisconsin. He's hoping to carry that momentum into New York. Sanders' decisive victory did not put much of a dent into Hillary Clinton's delegate lead, though. So joining us to discuss the state of the Democratic race is CNN senior political commentator, David Axelrod. He's also a former Obama senior advisor. Hi, David.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, guys. How you doing?
CAMEROTA: We're doing well. So was last night a gamechanger for the Sanders campaign?
AXELROD: No, I don't think it was a gamechanger. It was obviously a good night. It adds to his momentum. But it doesn't change the math that much. That is the nature of the Democratic Party process. You know, everybody goes home with a prize. And even though he won a substantial victory in Wisconsin, he only cut the delegate lead that Hillary Clinton has by about 14 delegates.
He's going to have to start ripping off big margins in big states in order to try and even up this race. And that is what he wants to do. He wants to even it up. Drive it to the convention. Make the case that he's a more electable candidate and get the super delegates to flip. It is a very difficult task he has in front of him.
CUOMO: Is it true that the Ax believes that the most meaningful thing to come out of the last few days wasn't at the ballots in Wisconsin last night, but was in "The Daily News" earlier, the answers that Bernie Sanders gave to the editorial board there. If so, why?
[08:24:57] AXELROD: Well I think it exposed the reality of his -- I think he's run a magnificent campaign in the sense that he has brought to the fore issues that are of deep concern to a lot of people, not just Democrats, about the way our economy functions. But when he was asked specific questions at "The Daily News" about how he would implement his ideas, he was Trumpesque in a way. He had no answer for how he would break up the banks and under what authority.
And this is really the great divide between Clinton and Sanders, in that she is a pragmatist. He's speaking in idealistic terms, but not in pragmatic terms. And he knows this. He's been in the Senate for 25 years. He understands the difficulty of getting things done.
Chris, when he was on my podcast a few months ago, we were talking about single payer healthcare. And I said we could not even get, when I was working for the president, a public option in -- which is a modest proposal -- in the healthcare plan. How are you going to get single payer? And he really didn't have an answer to that question. And you saw some of that at "The Daily News" editorial board. So as Bernie Sanders does better, he's also going to get more scrutiny about these ideas and I think he's going to have to do better than he did at "The Daily News."
CAMEROTA: So David, do you think the media has given him a pass, I mean, in terms of pressing him on specifics?
AXELROD: You know, I think that there is a natural inclination not to expose someone to the same kind of scrutiny if you don't believe they are going to be the nominee. And I think there is a supposition on the part of the media, even as we sit here today, that Bernie Sanders is not going to be the nominee of the party. So he hasn't gotten the same scrutiny. But the better he does the more he'll get. And I'll say one thing about New York, you don't go through New York without getting scorched a little by the New York media. I expect that he will be scrutinized more closely in the next couple of weeks.
CUOMO: Van Jones made a good point earlier that Bernie is very lucky, Bernie Sanders, that that was in print, not on television, what happened at "The Daily News." That may have changed the coverage.
CAMEROTA: Yeah. It's harder to replay it over and over.
CUOMO: But there also may be a positive militating in favor of Bernie Sanders being given some presumptions of viability here. 14 percent of people in the exit polls in Wisconsin -- I know the Clinton campaign will say it is overweighted white, it's not really a reflection of the country's demographics in general. But 14 percent, Ax, say they are excited -- Democrats -- if Clinton becomes president. That's real. That's consistent. That number has been the same or growing in terms of favorability for Sanders. What about that?
AXELROD: No, I think that that is a -- There is no doubt that there is more enthusiasm on his side of the equation. But the question is what happens in a general election? And I think that given what's going on on the Republican side, there is going to be plenty of enthusiasm on the Democratic side. It may not be motivated by the candidate, but it will be motivated by the choice.
And so, you know, I wouldn't extrapolate too -- I think the more meaningful data point there is that unlike on the Republican side where there's tremendous jaundice about the two leading candidates, on the Democratic side, Democrats are relatively satisfied with their candidates. They may be more enthusiastic about Sanders. But you don't see a third of the voters saying they would be scared if one of these candidates were nominated, which is what people said about Donald Trump in those exit polls yesterday.
CAMEROTA: David, Hillary Clinton just did an interview with Politico, which they just posted. We have a little portion that I can read you here. She says, "There is a persistent organized effort to misrepresent my record and I don't appreciate that" -- she's talking about Bernie Sanders -- "and I feel sorry for a lot of the young people who are fed this list of misrepresentations. I know that Senator Sanders spends a lot of time attacking my husband, attacking President Obama. I rarely hear him say anything negative about George W. Bush, who I think wrecked our economy." What do you think of those sentiments? AXELROD: Well, look, I understand her frustration. You know, Jeff
Weaver, great guy, doing a great job for Bernie Sanders, who was on last night, and he kind of casually threw out, well, she's taking money from the gun lobby based on one contribution from a Democrat who was -- at one time did some work for the NRA. These kinds of things, I'm sure, irritate her. The notion that she is a pawn of the oil and the fossil fuel industry when she has fought for climate change. It irritates her.
But I will tell you one thing I would stay away from. I would stay away from the insinuation that these young people who are inspired by Bernie Sanders are dupes and that somehow they are being fed misinformation and that is why they are enthusiastic about Bernie Sanders.
CAMEROTA: But are those misrepresentations? I mean, what you're -- what you're citing, is he misrepresenting her record?
AXELROD: I think that he is -- I think that there are legitimate questions about the money that she's taken from Wall Street, the speeches that she made. I think that is a fair attack. I think on issues like climate change, the notion that she is somehow a pawn of the oil industry --
