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Wisconsin Primary; Brussels Terror Attacks; Jobless Rate; Wisconsin Primary Effect. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 06, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That she's taken from Wall Street, the speeches that she made. I think that's a fair attack. I think on issues like climate change, the notion that she is somehow a pawn of the oil industry because she has taken some money from people who work for oil companies or that one guy gave her a contribution and she is suddenly taking money from the - that is a very classic, political game. I'm not saying he's doing anything that politicians don't do, but don't hold yourself out as someone who is - who is kind of holier than thou when you're playing the game down and dirty just like everyone else.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: David Axelrod, great to have you on NEW DAY.

AXELROD: Good to be with you guys.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: There's no question that there are real questions coming out of last night. Who better to answer for the Clinton campaign than the secretary herself. And at 11:15 Eastern this morning, I will speak with Hillary Clinton live during "At This Hour." Don't miss it.

So, you've got Clinton and Sanders certainly going to be up against it when it comes to this next big primary in New York. So when better to have a big debate, Camerota, I ask you that? No better time.

CAMEROTA: I'd say Thursday.

CUOMO: Would you say Thursday? What time?

CAMEROTA: I say next - I say 9:00 p.m.

CUOMO: And where?

CAMEROTA: In Brooklyn.

CUOMO: Well done.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: Well done, indeed.

CAMEROTA: I mean that's if I were running this network.

CUOMO: Which you basically are. MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: You are.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PEREIRA: That's why you're sending me home to California because you know I need to be there. See, I like how you're doing it.

CUOMO: Oh.

CAMEROTA: Yes, you have to go there.

PEREIRA: I have to go there. I'm trying to get you guys used to it.

CUOMO: No.

CAMEROTA: (INAUDIBLE).

PEREIRA: All right, 8:31 in the East. Wisconsin voters choosing the two sitting senators as their pick for president. What effect will the vote in Wisconsin have on the 2016 race? Ron Johnson is here. The senator will discuss that with us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:35:38] CUOMO: Wisconsin mattered and that makes New York matter even more. Delegate rich, certainly the next big prize in the presidential election. What happens? Let's discuss with somebody who knows all too well the impact a state can make. Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson. He's the chairman of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.

Very good to have you with us, sir, as always. Want to discuss what's going on in Brussels and the implications back here at home, but, first, let's start with the exigency of politics. How do you read the play of what last night means to the candidates and to your party?

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R), CHAIRMAN, CMTE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVT. AFFAIRS: Well, good morning, Chris.

Well, you know, one thing that's being lost is we had a really important election for the Wisconsin Supreme Court and Justice Rebecca Bradley won - won that one running away. There were almost a hundred thousand more Republican voters voting for that election - or for the primary. I don't have the vote totals on - on the judges' justice race. But that was an incredibly important race. So, from my standpoint, what the primary shows is that the Republican base is energized, we're activated and we're going to, I think, coming out in droves in November.

CUOMO: Well, that's the concern, right? I mean, you know, you're up for your race and it's about what reflection will the nominee of your party for president make on all of these different elections. How concerned are you that if Donald Trump becomes the nominee, it's bad for senators named Ron Johnson?

JOHNSON: Well, quite honestly, I'm not even thinking about it all that much because I've got my own race to run and, you know, I'm responsible for my own actions, my own words. And no matter who the candidate is, and we have a long process that has to play out here yet, nobody can predict it, whoever's our candidate, I intend to support that nominee. And I think when - once we have that nominee selected, I think Republicans are going to start focusing on the fact that the - the general election is going to be a comparison between Bernie Sanders the socialist or Hillary Clinton, who, let's face it, has more baggage than an airport claim area, and a Republican nominee. So I think that also will energize Republican voters in Wisconsin.

CUOMO: Do you think the race is a toss-up? Do you believe that Donald Trump's not going to get to the magic number of 1,237, or at least be able to keep that number when he gets to convention?

JOHNSON: Yes, again, I'm no political pundit. I'm just a manufacturer from Oshkosh, Wisconsin. I'm a U.S. senator now, but I'm leave the punditry to others. I'm going to concentrate on my own job as the chairman of homeland security and on my own election.

CUOMO: Right. Right, you are - you are not just the manufacturer from Oshkosh. You do have a very important job as the chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. So tell us, what is your takeaway of this confused effort to get their hands around, in Brussels and in France, the nature and size and condition of that terrorist cell, and how does that reflect back here at home?

JOHNSON: Well, it shows that the threat from Islamic terrorist, you know, especially in - coming out of the Middle East in Syria and Iraq is growing. The migrant flow certainly contains some of those operatives, but just the lack of assimilation within those European cities has also created a huge problem. And the fact that ISIS continues to exist, that they have that territory, that caliphate, they will continue to inspire and most recently now direct some of those terrorist attacks. And so it's going to have a spill effect. Let's face it, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, we had a terrorist plot that was foiled in the Messianic Temple. So these threats are real, they're growing and until we really take out ISIS is really our first step in that - in that battle, that long term battle, the threats will continue to grow.

CUOMO: So, you had a big hearing yesterday. These - this is what you're competing with. Back here at home they say, well, we're not Belgium, we're not France. We don't have this insurgent population of Muslims that may or may not be mishandled by the countries that they go to. We're different. We're isolated geographically and we don't deal with these kinds of things like Brussels here. Is there concern in that complacency?

JOHNSON: There is. It's - it is also true. There's been far more assimilation here in terms of the Muslim population in the United States and that's a good thing.

CUOMO: Yes.

JOHNSON: I mean we are a nation of immigrants. We're really pretty unique in the world that way. So that provides us some measure of protection. But as we saw in San Bernardino, California, as we saw the foiled plot in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, these threats are real and they're growing. You know, there's a - there's a report the State Department puts out and the - I know the numbers are not totally accurate, but it gives you some indication, prior to 9/11, there are about 5,000 fatalities per year due to terrorist attacks around the world. In 2012, that number would increase to 15,000. In 2014, there was almost 43,000 individuals. So, again, those aren't - it's hard to calculate these things, but it gives you some indication about the growth of terrorism around the world and, obviously, most of it's sparked by Islamic terror.

[08:40:18] CUOMO: Do you think that the tone of this campaign, in terms of how we deal with Muslims and what they mean to our country and whether they should be allowed in or not, do you think that affects the security profile of this country?

JOHNSON: I don't think some of those discussions are particularly helpful. Again, what we want to do is we want to have positive engagement with, you know, really any community in America, but particularly in Muslim communities when it comes to Islamic terror. We want to continue to assimilate.

We've got to secure our border. We have to defeat ISIS. There are a number of things we have to do. We have to stop hollowing out our military. We have to become stronger economically. There are a host of problems, a host of challenges facing this nation, which is why November 2016 is so important.

CUOMO: Senator Ron Johnson, thank you so much for talking to us about the race and the state of security here in the homeland. Appreciate it.

JOHNSON: Have a good day.

CUOMO: You too, sir.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris.

Ted Cruz's victory in Wisconsin again raising questions about a contested Republican convention. We'll sort through all of the delegate math for you. Which one the delegates are - oh, with one of the delegates, we should say, who is actually supporting Donald Trump. We'll break it down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:45:15] PEREIRA: All right, it's time for "CNN Money Now." Chief business correspondent Christine Romans here with what the candidates are saying about unemployment.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi there.

You know you've heard Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders claim that America's unemployment rate is higher than 5 percent. Now a Wall Street bank agrees with them, but the theory is more math than politics. A brand new report from Bank of America pegs the jobless rate, quote, "more like 6 percent." The bank thinks more than 10 million people want a job and can't find one. That's 2 million more than the official reading from the government at 8 million. Factor in those extra people and it boosts the unemployment rate a bit.

Now, we've seen signs of this recently in official data. Participation in the labor market has been rising since September. People are coming into the workforce as hiring picks up. More people are encouraged to start looking for jobs again. Bank of America says 6 percent unemployment. Still way below Donald Trump's various claims of anything from 20 to 42 percent unemployment.

Chris.

CUOMO: Christine Romans, there's nothing like your numbers with my morning coffee.

So, what impact will the Ted Cruz victory in Wisconsin have on the Republican Convention in Cleveland? It's getting more likely. So we need to know the numbers. And we'll give them to you next.

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[08:50:26] CUOMO: All right. So once you get passed the headline that Ted Cruz beat Donald Trump in Wisconsin, the next question, the one that matters most, what does it mean? What does it mean? What about these delegates now? What if it does leads to a convention? What do the delegates do?

Well, let's talk to somebody who's got keen insight and concerns about this, RNC committeewoman from the state of Nevada, who's also a delegate and also supporting Donald Trump, Diana Orrock.

Very good to have you with us, Diana. What is your concern?

DIANA ORROCK, RNC COMMITTEEWOMAN FOR NEVADA: Good morning, Chris.

I - I have very little concern. You know, you have to look at the bigger picture here. Wisconsin is simply a microcosm, one state. And going into Wisconsin, Trump has well over 700 delegates. Mr. Cruz has over 400. John Kasich is kind of in the - in the basement. And going forward, I think Donald Trump maybe has a hill to climb, but Ted Cruz has a mountain to climb. And I just don't think John Kasich is going to get out of the basement. There's a lot of states coming up. A lot more delegates to acquire. And I think Donald Trump is going to do great.

CUOMO: Well, the question becomes, what happens if you don't get to the magic number, if you can't hold on to it at the convention, because you know delegates like yourself only bound for the first vote. And the reason I ask you what your concern is, is because you said absolutely you have one. Quote, "as far as the stealing of the Trump nomination, that's a big concern for everybody," unquote. Diana Orrock, RNC committeewoman, why are you concerned that it will be stolen from Donald Trump? ORROCK: Well, I don't know that it's going to be stolen. If we go into

an open convention -

CUOMO: Right.

ORROCK: We will have several subsequent ballots and I'm staying loyal to my first vote for Donald Trump and all the subsequent ballots. And I think a vast majority of the delegates will be doing the same.

CUOMO: Right, but that's not stealing, right? If I come to you and I'm working for John Kasich or whoever and I say, Diana, think about it, he can't win in the general or I don't like him because of this or I'll give you that, delegates can - delegates can switch. The rules allow for it. That wouldn't be stealing.

ORROCK: They certainly can.

CUOMO: Do you think it's likely?

ORROCK: They certainly can. I don't know that stealing is actually going to be going on. I mean that would kind of amount to an illegal activity, I would think, if people, as delegates, are actually being offered bribes. That would be actual steeling.

CUOMO: Well, offering something to somebody doesn't have to be a bribe, but you get my point. How many Trump delegates do you think will hold firm and not switch?

ORROCK: I think the vast majority of his supporters are very loyal and don't plan on switching.

CUOMO: What do you see in the Trump campaign that suggests he would be able to compete in that type of environment at the convention, his ability to have the ground game at that convention, the machine, to go to other delegates, try to work Rubio delegates, Bush delegates, et cetera?

ORROCK: Well, I think that many of those delegates with candidates that have suspended their campaigns have pretty much made up their minds going forward. And there's going to be some switching after the first ballot. There's no doubt if that occurs. But I think the vast majority of the people who have declared themselves as Trump delegates are not going to be switching their votes. And I think that can be seen in the loyalty that he has in his supporters all across the nation. His message is so powerful and resonates with so Americans, especially those in the Republican Party, that are tired of politics as usual and the false promises that they hear election cycle after election cycle. Donald Trump is refreshing. He's going to do some good things with this country. And I think people really believe in his message. He believes in his message.

CUOMO: As an RNC committeewoman, final question, do you agree with Donald Trump's analysis of the Wisconsin race last night in a statement he put out suggesting that the party, meaning the RNC, made it easier for Cruz to win last night, that he had them in his corner, which would be wrongful. Do you believe the party did that last night? ORROCK: Well, there's no doubt that many people in the higher echelon

of the Republican Party, many of them may very well be from the RNC, are intent on sabotaging Donald Trump's campaign. They've been out in the open about that. And so that could very well come into play in the individual states, certainly in Wisconsin. But whether that hurts or harms Donald Trump, I - I don't see that happening.

[08:55:24] CUOMO: Diana Orrock, thank you very much for your perspective. Appreciate it.

ORROCK: You're welcome.

CUOMO: Up next, "The Good Stuff." Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: This is what happens when you don't have a comb.

CUOMO: Does my hair look funny right now?

CAMEROTA: Not at all.

CUOMO: Did she - did Michaela Mic-iffy (ph) me with my hair?

PEREIRA: I was just giving him a head massage.

CUOMO: Here is "The Good Stuff." In Huntington Beach, California, Police Officer Zach Pricer and Scott Marsh called to check on a suspicious car. When they got there, they found a woman and her 11- year-old daughter living out of that car.

PEREIRA: Really? What happened?

CUOMO: Well, they were homeless. So, watch what they do. They come in. They're making different arrangements for them to have housing. That's their job, to help the homeless.

PEREIRA: OK.

CUOMO: But this is not their job.

PEREIRA: Oh.

CUOMO: On duty officer playing hopscotch with the child. So while Officer Marsh started to make these calls to try and find a shelter for them, his partner, Pricer, instinctively got out of the car to play hopscotch with the girl to connect -

[09:00:06] PEREIRA: Oh.

CAMEROTA: That's awesome.

CUOMO: To let her know that it was all OK.

CAMEROTA: That's awesome. CUOMO: And it's not the first time Pricer has done something like this. He says he wants children to feel comfortable in tough situations.