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Could Both Parties Have Contested Conventions?; RNC Rules Committee to Meet Next Week Before Convention; Cruz Doubles Down on New York Values Comment; GOP Rivals Battle for Delegate-Rich New York; Cruz Campaigns in The Bronx; FBI Terrorist Screening Center Director Worried Our Partners Don't Use All of Our Data; Could U.S. Watch List Prevent Brussels-Like Attack? Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 07, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: So, there's been a lot of talk recently about the possibility of a contested convention for the Republican nomination this summer. What exactly is that and how would it work? We turn to our Tom Foreman, who takes a close look for us it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN JOURNALIST: Take a look at the delegate count as these three candidates try to close in on that magic number to clinch the nomination. If anyone gets there before the convention, that's it. That's the winner. But if not, then we head into July and a huge floor fight over the nomination, in which it could really matter who has been sent here as delegates.

Let me explain why by walking over to Tennessee. Tennessee has 58 delegates and based on the popular vote, 33 of them should go to Donald Trump, 16 to Cruz, and nine to Marco Rubio. They have to vote that way for the first two ballots based on their state Republican Party rules, but after that they become free agents.

They can vote for whomever they wish and maybe some of the people holding Trump signs over here are actually Cruz supporters. Suddenly you could see what would happen. Donald Trump could lose a state that he actually won.

What about Louisiana over here? In Louisiana, Trump and Cruz basically split a lot of the vote, getting 18 delegates a piece. A few went to Marco Rubio and a few remain undecided. But in this case, they can change after the first vote. They're all unbound, making Louisiana a huge question mark.

So, after each vote more people become unbound in all sorts of states, and as that happens you can see the result. You could wind up with many people here voting in different ways than what they heard back home and it would be really a case of voodoo voting far beyond the bayou state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right, our thanks to Tom Foreman there. It is not simple, what's going on. It's not technically simple, it's not politically simple. So, let's get into it on both sides. David Chalian, CNN's political director and Matt Schlapp, the former political director for George W. Bush and the chairman of the American Conservative Union. He also attended a meeting between the RNC and GOP campaigns about convention rules. Matt, you like me and Chalian, right?

MATT SCHLAPP, FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, I do. I'm not on the other side.

CUOMO: No, I'm saying I want to look at it politically and technically. And thank you for drawing that distinction because if you like us so much tell us what happened in the meeting. What was the tone in there? What's it going to be like in trying to get these parties to accept a set of rules?

SCHLAPP: Like everything in Washington, that was an off-the-record meeting, Chris, and here we are on T.V. talking about it. But it's been reported about -- and I don't mind sharing with you what the RNC intended.

CUOMO: Here we go. What have you got? Come on, Schlapp, what do you got?

SCHLAPP: Basically, the RNC has got to field all these questions from people. There's a lot of myths out there about what can happen and they want to be fair brokers in this process. So all the presidential campaigns were there and a lot of other people and their desire is to say look, the fact is is this.

There are no rules going into this convention, Chris, because the rules that we have on the books were for the last convention and there's a whole new slate of delegates, and those delegates are the ones who determine what the rules are for this convention. So when people say oh, they're going to change the rules, they have to change the rules. There's really, in a sense -- in essence, no rules yet until they make them.

CUOMO: Well, they have to go through the promulgation again. The question is what do they keep the same and what do they change?

SCHLAPP: That's right.

CUOMO: David, let's try to get Schlapp to give us some more by implication here because rule 40(b) keeps getting all this attention. That was brought in, Rand Paul (sic) would say, just to keep him at a disadvantage. But essentially it says --

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Ron Paul.

CUOMO: Ron Paul, sorry. It says you need to win a certain number of states -- I believe it was eight -- and then they made them eight certain states. And now you have Cruz and Trump saying well good, then Kasich can't come, right? And that's where what Matt Schlapp just said comes in about rules are only good for one convention. What's your take? CHALIAN: Well, that rule specifically, Chris, I think you're right. The two front-runners, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump -- they like that rule because it keeps Kasich out of the way right now. So, when the two front-runners, who are going to have the most delegates going into this, are going to get to dictate a lot of how the rules take shape, that one very well may stay and get carried over to this convention.

But remember, we are talking about that magic number, 1,237, all the time about getting the nomination. Getting 1,237 before Cleveland. When you get to Cleveland everything is going to require a 1,237, not just the nomination. The majority of the delegates -- that's 50 percent, plus one. That's that 1,237 number. They have to vote on the rules. They vote on who gets seated at the convention. They vote on how they govern themselves at the convention. They vote on the vice presidential nominee.

[07:35:00] So 1,237 is this number that you're going to need to hit over and over and over again, even before you get to the roll call of who's the nominee.

CUOMO: Now, how are you dealing right now, Matt Schlapp, on an insider level, with people trying to get and sway delegates? Jeff DeWitt was just on here from team Trump, right, and he made an interesting point. I said, well you're not stealing delegates if you get them to change their mind. He said, well, but what about what the voters expected?

If they voted in a certain percentage for a certain candidate and they thought that those delegates were going to be apportioned as a reflection of what they wanted, then that person changes their mind? How do you deal with that because it could breed an animosity at your convention?

SCHLAPP: Well, you've said it exactly right. The fact is we're in a republic and not a democracy. We have electors that elect a president. We have delegates in both major parties and the Democrats have superdelegates who determine who the nominee is. So, what Trump, and what Cruz, and what anybody else who wants to be the nominee has to do is be working with these delegates. They're getting selected as the days go by. Names are public and you have to work them.

Not only do you have -- it's like having two campaigns. You have to win in these states. Trump has to focus on New York. Cruz has to focus on New York. But at the same time, you have this quieter and more internal campaign working those delegates. Make sure your delegates that have signed up to be with you stay with you. It takes charm and it takes organization,

And I think the Trump campaign and the Cruz campaign -- these delegates -- 80 percent of them are bound to them in the first vote. If they start to lose them it's partly their own fault for not having a process to hold onto them.

CUOMO: All right, let's flip to the other party for a second. Now, you know, you'll get a very hearty laugh from Sec. Clinton if you suggest that there's going to be a contested convention on the Democratic side. But, David Chalian, what happens here if she doesn't get the magic number? She'd be in the same situation as Donald Trump would be on the front-runner on that side. What do you think is the chance of that actually happening on the Democratic side?

CHALIAN: I think it's really slim, Chris. I think she needs about 35 percent or so of the remaining delegates in the process to hit that number. Now, yes, I'm including superdelegates in that count because --

CUOMO: Sanders says that's dirty pool, Chalian.

CHALIAN: Sanders does say it's dirty pool --

CUOMO: Dirty pool, his team says.

CHALIAN: -- but it is the rules. Now, where Sanders is right is those superdelegates don't cast their ballots until they're on the floor of the convention in Philadelphia and yes, they can change. But the motivation for a superdelegate to change is usually the pledged delegate count. Would the will of the voters represented through those pledged delegates.

If Bernie Sanders can't upend Hillary Clinton's lead among pledged delegates he loses his strongest arguments to superdelegates saying hey, come on over to our side. So I don't think you can discount them because they are part of the rules for the party about how you collect delegates going into the convention.

CUOMO: What's your take, Schlapp? Do you think that the superdelegate issue plays as well, really there just a function of the pledged, or do you think it plays as a little bit of that insider elitism that this campaign has been really set up as a for and against position?

SCHLAPP: Yes, well let me play my roles. The Republican's got a big grin on his face watching the other side in this regard which is they actually have superdelegates. They have people that are not bound by the will of the voters, which as a Republican, you look at that and you say that's a lot of votes. So if Sanders -- he's right in the zone of having actually more regular delegates or having equal regular delegates as Hillary Clinton.

This is a delicious talking point for Republicans that there's a chance that the Democrats would actually nominate somebody who after all the primaries and caucuses did not have as many delegates or didn't have a lead over Bernie Sanders, who's is a socialist. Let me tell you. This is a great diversion for us.

CUOMO: Matt Schlapp, thank you very much for almost being a friend and telling us something that was valuable about what happened in the meeting. We'll just have to wait and see. Chalian, as always, thank you for making us better -- Alisyn.

CHALIAN: Thanks, Chris.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: All right, Ted Cruz's comments criticizing New York values appear to be coming back to haunt him. Fresh off his Wisconsin win Cruz is facing a rather cool reception in the empire state. We'll hear from the Cruz campaign on how they plan to turn that around, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:42:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ted Cruz has no business being in The Bronx. We are one of the poorest congressional districts in the country, and to receive this right-wing bigot is an insult to the whole community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right, that was a protester angry about Ted Cruz's visit to his neighborhood, The Bronx. Both Ted Cruz and Donald Trump talking New York values ahead of the April 19th primary here. Cruz trailing Trump and Kasich in the latest polls. This is a Monmouth University poll here. Cruz, as you can see, has 17 percent. That following his big Wisconsin win. So what is Sen. Cruz's plan for New York?

Let's talk to the national chairman for the Cruz campaign, Chad Sweet. Good morning, Chad.

CHAD SWEET, CRUZ CAMPAIGN NATIONAL CHAIRMAN: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So, New York does not seem to be rolling out the red carpet for Ted Cruz. In fact, if the Daily New's cover is any indication, it's quite the opposite. They're basically telling him where he can go. Do you think the senator is surprised by this reception?

SWEET: Listen, the senator has always been willing to go anywhere, anytime, anyplace to bring his solutions and conservative message to the nation. I think what we're seeing now in New York is what we've seen in other states, where sometimes we start off lower than expectations and then what we consistently do is outperform as we move towards election day.

As you'll note right now, this is Trump's home state. Senator Cruz delivered his home state. Trump has to deliver his home state. He's dangerously close right now to flirting with going below 50 percent. Even in your own there you see that he's only 2 percent above that watermark. New York is a winner-take-all state. If he does not win over 50 percent, that's yet another sign that the Trump campaign is in trouble.

And I think if you look at the trend line you'll notice as well that he was well above that number just a few weeks ago, so he's on a decline right now. Those polls were all taken before he was beaten badly in Wisconsin.

CAMEROTA: But Chad, that's interesting. You're holding him to a different standard. When have we said, prior to now, well he has to hit more than 50 percent. I mean, we just talk about winning and he's winning handily right now.

SWEET: You know, if you look at -- the point here is that this is his home state and it's absolutely the case that he would be expected to outperform Sen. Cruz in his home state. Senator Cruz is going to go back to the state repeatedly, as we're seeing right now, to take his message just like he did in Wisconsin.

[07:45:00] If you'll remember, he was down over 10 points in Wisconsin just two weeks out. He beat Trump, even after Donald Trump doubled-down on Wisconsin. Trump spent an enormous amount of time, personal capital, even rolled out his wife in Wisconsin to try to dig him out of the hole that he dug with women after his atrocious comments on abortion.

And what did we see? We say that Sen. Cruz, even with John Kasich as a spoiler in the race, still walloped Donald Trump by over 13 points. And when you look at -- even on CNN's own election center. I'd encouraged everyone to go to that and look at the exit polls. You'll see that Sen. Cruz didn't just win, he dominated across every demographic, whether it's men, women, urban, rural, suburban --

CAMEROTA: Sure, yes.

SWEET: -- even every income level. So this is --

CAMEROTA: But Wisconsin is not --

SWEET: It's important to understand that.

CAMEROTA: Sure, but Wisconsin is not New York and that's not going to happen by any indication in New York. Ted Cruz was supposed to be appearing at a high school yesterday in The Bronx, but the students respectfully wrote a letter to their principal saying that they had planned to walk out if that were the case. They didn't think that he represented the values that they did and the school canceled that. So, I'm just curious. What did Ted Cruz expect when he talked about New York values in a disparaging way?

SWEET: Well listen, I went to college in New York. I lived in New York for over a decade and I know exactly what he's talking about when he says New York values. And to be fair to the senator, he's not talking about all New Yorkers. What he's talking about are the New York liberal elites and the policies that the represent as they've run that state for over several decades.

And if you look at that phrase it actually doesn't come from Ted. It comes from Donald, himself, in an interview with Tim Russert where he acknowledges that in his multi-decades prior history he supported those liberal values with his own checkbook, whether it's to Cuomo, to Spitzer, Rangel, you name it. He has been backing the same liberal politicians that have been overregulating New York people.

And if you're a hardworking man or woman in the state of New York you know exactly what Sen. Cruz is talking about, and he is excited to take his conservative, practical solutions to help get the government off the back of New Yorkers so that they can actually have more take- home pay, better jobs, and a brighter future.

CAMEROTA: Given how poorly it's gone thus far in New York in terms of protests and appearances being canceled, and the front page of the Daily News, should Ted Cruz give up on New York and just focus on other future states?

SWEET: Well, first of all, again, we don't concede that it's gone poorly in New York. And secondly, what I would say is, again, what I said at the beginning which is the senator is willing to anywhere, anytime, anyplace to bring these pragmatic common sense solutions to the people so that they can make their own decision. And if you look at this, what's important --

I know that the media doesn't want to actually look at the record prior to New York but I'll just make an observation, which is if you look at four states prior to New York what have we seen over and over again that the political terrain has shifted.

Not just in Wisconsin, but look at Utah. Senator Cruz beat Trump, won all 40 delegates. Trump got zero. Look at then the next available delegates were six delegates in Colorado. He won six, Trump got zero. Then you go to North Dakota. Of the 19 delegates that have declared support for any candidate, he's won 18, Trump has won one.

And we just saw in Wisconsin Sen. Cruz won 36, Trump won six. So if you actually look at not just Wisconsin, but the trend line that's been going on before New York, what you see is Sen. Cruz has accumulated 100 delegates. Trump has accumulated 7. That's a 94 percent win rate for Sen. Cruz. Let me repeat that -- a 94 percent win rate.

What's going to happen before you even get to New York -- there are going to be another, right now, 18 delegates up for grabs in Wyoming. Senator Cruz is likely to win all of those. And then, of the remaining Colorado delegates, he will disproportionately win the remaining 36 that are available. So, what I'mtelling you is that the trend line that we're seeing across this country is that the Senator -- we've had a turning point. New York is not at the center of the universe and if you look at the broad breadth of the country and where we're going, Sen. Cruz is dominating Donald Trump.

And if you look at how Donald Trump has doubled-down in some of these states, including Wisconsin, the amount of vetting that he did in Wisconsin -- if this was one of his casinos, the pit boss would have had to intervene, take all of his chips, max out his credit line, and kick him out of the casino. That's how badly Donald Trump was beaten over the last four states.

CAMEROTA: Chad Sweet, thank you.

SWEET: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Ted Cruz is going to speak to our Dana Bash tonight. You can see her interview on "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT". That will be 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN. Let's get to Michaela. PEREIRA: A really interesting look ahead here. The man responsible for preventing terrorists from coming into the U.S. speaking out in his first national T.V. interview. The director of the FBI's terrorist screening center speaks exclusively to CNN. You'll see that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Christopher Piehota may just have the most challenging job in America. He is the director of the FBI's terrorist screening center. He's responsible for stopping terrorists from entering the country. He has never done a national television interview before, but he agreed to sit down with our justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, for an exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER PIEHOTA, DIRECTOR, TERRORIST SCREENING CENTER: It's concerning that our partners don't use all of our data. We provide them with tools, we provide them with support, and I would find it concerning that they don't use these tools to help screen for their own aviation security, maritime security, border screening, visas, things like that for travel. We find it concerning.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We've now seen two ISIS terror attacks in Europe, more recently in Paris as well as in Brussels at the airport and the metro station. Would the U.S. watch list have prevented the terrorists identified in those attacks from slipping into the United States?

PIEHOTA: It depends, now, and I say it depends because if they were on our list and they were properly identified, they may have been caught at our borders. They may not have been granted access to our country. So, I can say that I would hope that our screening network would have caught them. Nothing is 100 percent foolproof, I will tell you that.

[07:55:00] BROWN: Did that information make its way into our watch lists? Did they share information prior to those attacks about these people? I'm just trying to get a sense of how that would work.

PIEHOTA: We were aware of some of those people.

BROWN: We know of at least two bombers who are still on the run, possibly in Europe. How concerning is that to you that these could be people who might want to make it into the U.S. They haven't been publicly identified.

PIEHOTA: It's very concerning and that's where the awareness and the vigilance comes in. We rely on our partners to look for them, conduct investigations and operations that help us identify them.

BROWN: There's so many people leaving Europe to go to Syria to train unbeknownst to European officials, and then just come right back. I mean, what's stopping them from making it into the U.S.? PIEHOTA: We make sure that we know as much as we can, and we take that information and we use it the best we can to minimize threats to our communities. But, we can't know everything all the time.

BROWN: Let's talk about the migrant crisis because the U.S. is expected to take in tens of thousands of people over the next several years. Your job will be to ensure none of those people are terrorists and make it into the United States, in collaboration with other intelligence partners. How sure are you that you will be 100 percent successful?

PIEHOTA: Nothing is 100 percent. We will strive for the best we can. I'm pretty confident in us catching people who would try to come to this country for illicit purposes. But, again, I can't say that we would be batting a thousand.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: Not 100 percent foolproof. What does the director have to say about this perception there is out there that innocent Americans are making it onto that watch list and how on earth would they get off it if they are so unfortunate to get on there, especially if they don't have ties to terrorism?

BROWN: Right. We've been hearing that, Michaela, on the campaign trail a lot. That a majority of people on these terror watch lists are innocent Americans with no ties to terrorism. And Director Piehota said that's simply not true. He said that's an incorrect perception. That less than half a percent of people on the U.S. watch list are Americans, so the rest are foreigners.

So he said also what they do is constantly reevaluate people who are on the terror watch list and people who should be added. In fact, on average Michaela, there are 1,500 changes per day to the terror watch list. So, those that may end up erroneously on the watch list -- he says there's a readdress program. People can contact a federal agency where they're having issues, such as TSA. That information would be shared with the terrorist screening center and then they would try to resolve the issue as quickly as possible -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Interesting to hear. Quite a lot of pressure on that man's shoulders. Thanks so much for bringing that interview to us.

BROWN: Thank you.

PEREIRA: So, we're following a lot of news today. Bernie Sanders calling out Hillary Clinton's qualifications. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Sanders, by his own admission, has never even been a Democrat.

BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't believe that she is qualified.

CLINTON: There didn't seem to be a lot of substance to what he was saying.

SANDERS: Secretary Clinton appears to be getting a little bit nervous.

CLINTON: (Laughing).

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Lyin' Ted. The bible held high, he puts it down and then he lies.

TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald can always be counted on to demonstrate class.

TRUMP: He started lecturing me on New York Values, like we're no good.

CRUZ: The people of New York know exactly what those values are.

TRUMP: Folks, I think you can forget about him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your new day. It's Thursday, April 7th, now 8:00 in the east. Up first, Democratic rivals, one civilized now? Not so much. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton talking tough, escalating this deal into some kind of feud. Sanders claiming you think I'm not qualified, I don't think you're qualified.

There's a back and forth now about special interest money and whether or not Sanders has enough grasp of the issues. That's what's going on right now on the Democratic side as we get going just one week from the big debate here in New York.

CAMEROTA: I love the old, I know you are.

CUOMO: It's kind of like -- what was the movie? I'm out of order? You're out of order. This whole courtroom is out of order.

CAMEROTA: Exactly. Meanwhile, Donald Trump trying to rebound in his home state of New York after a bruising loss in Wisconsin. The GOP rivals readying for a convention floor fight. We have this race covered the way only CNN can, so let's begin with senior political correspondent, Brianna Keilar. She's live for us in Washington. Hi, Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Alisyn. I'll tell you, I was at this rally night where Bernie Sanders said that Hillary Clinton was unqualified, and this was red meat to his supporters -- about 10,000 of them at Temple University. They were just eating this up. Bernie Sanders clearly not taking kindly to the Clinton campaign's new strategy to go after him more aggressively.