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Hillary Clinton Criticizes Bernie Sanders on Economic Policy and Gun Control; Interview with Bernie Sanders Surrogate Nina Turner; Trump Looks to Rebound in NY; RNC Briefs Campaigns About Contested Convention Rules. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 07, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- Hillary Clinton was unqualified. And this was red meat to his supporters. About 10,000 of them at Temple University, they were just eating this up. Bernie Sanders clearly not taking kindly to the Clinton campaign's new strategy to go after him more aggressively.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't believe that she is qualified --

KEILAR: Bernie Sanders lashing out at Hillary Clinton.

SANDERS: I don't think that you are qualified if you get $15 million from Wall Street through your super PAC. I don't think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in Iraq.

KEILAR: The war of words between the two Democratic presidential candidates escalating. Sanders claiming --

SANDERS: She has been saying lately that she thinks that I am, quote/unquote, "not qualified to be president."

KEILAR: But Clinton's campaign denies she ever said he wasn't qualified.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The presidents who are successful know what they want to do and they know how to do it.

KEILAR: Clinton is pointing to an interview Sanders did with "The New York Daily News" where he struggled to identify how his administration would break up the big banks, elaborating in an interview with CNN's Chris Cuomo.

CLINTON: I was I think a little bit surprised that there didn't seem to be a lot of substance to what he was saying.

KEILAR: Clinton now taking this line of attack on the campaign trail, painting Sanders as unprepared to be president and even questioning whether he's a Democrat.

CLINTON: He himself has said he never was. He never ran at the Democrat until he started running for president. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Now Clinton campaign spokesman Brian Fallon tweeting after Sanders' comments "Bernie Sanders, take back your words about Hillary Clinton." So all of this ratcheting up, Chris. And perhaps no surprise, both sides are fundraising off of this back and forth.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Oh yes, you've got it straight there, Brianna. We've seen it change in the state of play. We're seeing it on both sides. Despite Sanders streak we have Hillary Clinton in the chair, as you saw. She said to us for the first time, "I know I'm going to win before this convention happens. I'll get there. I'll get the delegates." So we're seeing more things come out on more different levels. Here's more of the interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is just ludicrous on the face of it. You know, I have been campaigning for Democrats, fundraising for Democrats, recruiting Democrats to run and win for a really long time, I think about 40 years. And Senator Sanders by his own admission has never even been a Democrat.

So, look, I understand they are getting anxious. I get that. But they need to be thoughtful about what they do say because at the end of the day we need a Democratic president to succeed President Obama and to protect and further the progress that we've made under his eight years in office.

CUOMO: Exit polls do show those Democrat whose want to see President Obama's policies extended, continued, certainly favor you. And this is done somewhat in the context of what you just said about Senator Sanders about being a real Democrat. I read in a recent interview where you said you're not even sure he is a Democrat. Is that how you feel?

CLINTON: Well, he himself has said that he never was. He never ran as the Democrat until he started running for president. But look, he's in the race. I'm in the race. And I believe strongly that it is not only critical to nominate someone who will win in November but also to elect more Democrats. I'm already helping other Democrats who are running. I'm helping raise money for them. I'm supporting them, because I think it is important to have a Democratic Senate. I think it's important to have a very clear mission to elect Democrats. And that is something that I not only have done in the past but I intend to do in the future.

CUOMO: Two policy questions for you. First of all, you have pointed out recent interview with the editorial board of "The Daily News" that Senator Sanders said -- you said it raises real questions about his firm grasp of how the system works with regard to regulating banks and to how we fight the war on terror. How so?

CLINTON: Well, he's been campaigning now for a year on his core message of inequality, which I absolutely agree with. And I've put forth my own plans. And in the interview it seemed unclear as to whether he understood how Dodd-Frank works, how we would go about breaking up banks that were posing risks to our economy. I think I and many other people were surprised because that has been the center piece of his campaign.

I've been saying for many months that it is not enough to just have Dodd-Frank on the books. My plan goes much further, and independent experts who have analyzed say as the top to bottom effort to try to reign in the risks in the economy. So I've given a lot of thought to this.

[08:05:00] I've worked hard to come up with plans that will build on Dodd-Frank. I'm committed to using the tools in Dodd-frank as they are described in the legislation if that arises as a crisis that requires response. So I was I think a little bit, you know, surprised that there didn't seem to be a lot of substance to what he was saying.

CUOMO: How much more substance does he need other than I want to break up the banks, we'll figure out how. I want to go after ISIS, I'll figure out when I interrogate them.

(LAUGHTER)

CLINTON: Well, that's going to be up to --

CUOMO: But a lot of people would say, secretary, it is about what you want to do. You will figure out how later.

CLINTON: Yes, well, that is not the way I've seen it work over a lot of years and a lot of reading of history. I think the presidents who are successful know what they want to do and they know how to do it. And they hit the ground running, able to do every aspect of the job both as president and as commander in chief.

But voters can make up their own minds. I've also laid out a plan about defeating ISIS that I think takes into account what we need to do around the world, building coalitions, something I'm experienced in doing, and keeping us safe at home. So I'm going to keep talking about the issues that I think are on the minds of Americans and in these next two weeks, the minds of New Yorkers. And I'll let Senator Sanders speak for himself.

CUOMO: On the same cover of the same newspaper where he did the interview, "The Daily News," today they are going after Senator Sanders about Sandy Hook. Not easy to say. Not easy to read either secretary. I mean, this is so emotional, so difficult. And the core issue comes down to, should gun manufacturers be liable for their products being used illegally? You essentially say yes. The senator says, well, you would have to show me something more than that, that there is some reason they should be liable. I get the emotion, but where is the reason behind holding these gun manufacturers liable in a way that no other corporation would be?

CLINTON: Well, that is just not true, Chris. In fact under this legislation that Senator Sanders supported, they are the only industry in America that is not liable and accountable for what they do or fail to do. And let's remember why the NRA called this piece of legislation the most important gun vote in years. It's because cities like New York and states and other groups were coming together around legal challenges to the behavior of gun makers and sellers, trying to stem the epidemic of gun violence. And the NRA wanted to stop it in its tracks. And they are able to get people like Senator Sanders to do their bidding.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right, what do you say we get to the bottom of some of this back and forth, OK? We just heard from Hillary Clinton what she says is going on both in a political and policy sense. Now let's hear from the Bernie Sanders campaign. Former Ohio state senator and Sanders surrogate Nina Turner, one of the best names in the business. Good to have you with us this morning. I'll give you the option. What do you want to deal with first, the politics or the policy? Your choice.

NINA TURNER, FORMER OHIO STATE SENATOR: Well, the politics is very clear. The Clinton campaign did not think that they were going to have a big challenge. You know, many folks, Chris, as you know when Senator Sanders started this journey thought he was a fringe candidate. He was at three percent in the polls. He was a federal senator from the great state of Vermont. Very few people across the country had even heard of him. And here he is in April of 2016 having one seven out of the last eight contests. Can you feel me now, is pretty much what Senator Sanders is saying to the pundits and people who did not believe that he would be where he is today.

CUOMO: Yesterday I was quoting Phife Dawg from A Tribe Called Quest saying that Bernie Sanders is asking the voters "Can I kick it?" And they keep answering "Yes, you can."

TURNER: Amen.

CUOMO: Let me ask you something about how this started, this back and forth about who is qualified and who isn't. Let me play something from Senator Sanders which I think gets us a bit of the way.

TURNER: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: She has been saying lately that she thinks that I am, quote-unquote, "not qualified to be president." Let me just say in response to Secretary Clinton, I don't believe that she is qualified.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, I play that piece of sound because there is a suggestion that Senator Sanders started by saying "Hillary Clinton is not qualified to be president." Do you believe that that's what Bernie Sanders believes? Or do you believe he was responding in kind to the idea of what makes you qualified?

TURNER: Well, Chris, certainly yes, he was responding in kind. And let us not forget that the Clinton campaign is in full frontal attack against Senator Sanders. They drew first blood. They started this entire fight when they talked about how he wanted to dismantle the Affordable Care Act and stop children from having the CHIP program which they know good and well was a lie, that he has fought his entire life for people who don't have, and that a man who wants universal healthcare in this country for every man, woman and child would even dare think about doing anything that would negatively impact folks ability to have healthcare.

[08:10:20] It started when her campaign sent droves of folks out to question whether or not Senator Sanders has the civil rights credentials, him putting his body on the line as a young 22- year-old at the University of Chicago fighting against discrimination and dissipation.

And then, Chris, here we are today, they are questioning whether or not he's qualified. The secretary said in a very veiled way, but Senator Sanders answered the question very clearly yesterday at his rally. This is the fact of the matter.

And then trying to disparage him whether or not he is a Democrat. Shakespeare once said that a rose by any other name smells just as sweet. This man had been working all of his life, all of his conscious life to help the downtrodden and oppressed in this country, and that is what being a Democrat is supposed to be about, Chris. And by the way, the Democrat Party is a big tent party, and the question of whether or not he's one just baffles my mind.

CUOMO: It shouldn't baffle your mind, though, because you are right in terms of you are saying well what is a Democrat supposed to be about? That is one argument. The other is what do you do for the party? What do you do for other Democrats? Very often that is a blood sport between the right and left, the Republicans and the Democrats, and the suggestion would be you're just getting into the fight now. You've been standing on the sidelines. Is that fair criticism?

TURNER: But that is not true. But Chris, that is not true. Senator Sanders has just recently in my own state, him and the secretary both were headliners at the Ohio Democrat party dinner. Do you know what that dinner was about? Raising money for the Ohio Democrat Party. He has done that throughout his career.

And let us not forget. Even in 1988 when the status quo of the Democrat Party at that time turned their back on him when he was giving a speech to talk about why Reverend Jesse Jackson should be the president of the United States of America, that was the status quo of the party.

So, Chris, really my argument is about whether or not the "D" by your name means something or whether or not you stand up to the principles of what it means to be a Democrat. Passing crime bills that eviscerated the African-American community, that was done under a Democratic administration. So let's have the conversation about what it means to live up to the values of being a Democrat, and Senator Bernie Sanders has done that, Chris. CUOMO: Let me get one quick hit on that before I let you go today,

which is on the gun bill. I've heard two different things out of Senator Sanders. In this recording they are playing, I believe it's from "The Daily News" with respect to Sandy Hook and going after gun manufacturers, he says no, I don't believe you should do that. I've also herd him a say, because he voted on that bill that insulated the manufacturers, as a lot of people in your party has said about it and outside the party, but he's also said, hold on a second, I need to see more facts. If you show me that a manufacturer knew that its products were going to people who aren't supposed to have them, well, then there is a liability. I just don't think they should be sued for simply making guns. Which is it, and how do you feel about it?

TURNER: I think the senator has been clear. He is right now one of the co-sponsors of a bill that is pending in the Congress right now to hold gun manufacturers liable?

CUOMO: He said no they don't -- he said no I don't in answer to the questions, do you think manufacturers should be able to be sued. No I don't.

TURNER: He is a co-sponsor. I think his point is this. If that manufacturers knowingly products to folks that we know are going to go out and wreak havoc, then they absolutely should be held liable. He is a co-sponsor on a bill right now.

And Chris, he is a father, he is a grandfather. It just pains me right now that the Clinton campaign is using the Sandy Hook incident for political reasons. There is no way under God's green earth that a man of such integrity like him would not have the compassion and empathy for what happened to those babies in Sandy Hook.

And you know what, Chris, we as a nation have failed. The entire Congress failed because we were not able to get reasonable gun laws in this country all because of the NRA and their influence. So the Congress has failed this country. It is deplorable. But the senator does believe and he is the co-sponsor of a bill right now that will hold gun manufactures liable.

CUOMO: I'm just saying, senator, you can see why people are confused where he is, if he's co-sponsoring the bill and then he says I don't see it. We'll leave that discussion for another day with the senator. We've invited him to come on as we always do to discuss this and other issues that matter. Thanks, Nina Turner, for being on the show. Appreciate it.

TURNER: Thank you.

CUOMO: So one week from tonight this is all going come to a head here in New York. We didn't expect this. New York wasn't supposed to a flash point on the Democratic side or the GOP side, and now it is. And there is going to be a big debate right there next Thursday in Brooklyn between Clinton and Sanders. Alisyn?

[08:15:02] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Donald trump is back in New York after a bumpy road trip through Wisconsin. It did not take long for Trump to blast Ted Cruz, doubling down on Cruz's New York values comments.

CNN's Phil Mattingly joins us with more. Hi, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Hey, Allyson. Well, with one attack line in a January debate, Ted Cruz set the tone for the New York primary. New York values. Cruz calling it an indictment of the state's politicians and their ties to Donald Trump.

Well, for Donald Trump, he's now in New York. And even though his campaign is struggling coming off a devastating loss, Ted Cruz may have put the ball on a tee and he is taking home run swings.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I love these people. These are my people.

MATTINGLY: Less than 24 hours after a devastating Wisconsin defeat, Donald Trump looking to regain his footing in familiar territory, his home state of New York.

TRUMP: You know, Lyin' Ted Cruz came today. He couldn't draw a 100 people, 100 people.

MATTINGLY: Trump making no mention of his bruising Wisconsin loss at a rally in Long Island but wasting little time criticizing Ted Cruz, the Texas senator.

TRUMP: I've got this guy standing over there looking at me, talking about New York values with scorn on his face, with hatred, with hatred of New York. I think you can forget about him.

MATTINGLY: The rally coming just hours after Trump huddled behind close doors with one of his top advisors. Frustration over strategy, direction and even staffing, according to sources, all roiling the campaign.

Ted Cruz also campaigning in the Big Apple, doubling down on past criticism of quote "New York values."

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's be clear. The people of New York know exactly what those values are. If you want to know what liberal Democratic values are, follow Donald Trump's checkbook.

MATTINGLY: Cruz trailing badly in early New York polls but predicting a big move in the state, much like in Wisconsin.

CRUZ: Well, you know, the interesting thing about polling is it can change and it can change quickly. We just won a landslide victory winning by 13 points, sweeping the state.

MATTINGLY: John Kasich, hoping to stay alive, coming in second in the latest poll, continuing to fight off calls for him to drop out of the race.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Now, 95 delegates at stake here in New York on April 19th. And there will be no shortage of attention to that race. However, keep an eye on the campaign behind the campaign as we head to the very possible open convention in Cleveland, Ohio.

There are now fights inside all three campaigns for delegates trying to secure commitments before they head into Cleveland. If this vote goes do a second or third ballot on the convention floor, that's the race that these candidates need to win.

Sources in all three campaigns say they have teams working on this. Everybody pointing towards Cleveland now. Michaela.

CAMEROTA: All right, Phil. Intriguing and fascinating. We'll be watching with you.

Some other headlines for you now. Gay rights activists in Tennessee are calling for a veto if state lawmakers push through a bill that would allow therapists to refuse service to LGBT patients.

The state House passed the bill Wednesday. The so-called Religious Freedom Bill is one of several measure advancing in the South.

CHRIS CUOMO, CO-HOST, NEW DAY: Bernie Sanders.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CO-HOST, NEW DAY: Bernie Sanders couldn't escape the -- go ahead.

CUOMO: Can I say it?

PEREIRA: You can.

CUOMO: The graphic threw me.

PEREIRA: You thought I was trying to steal your line.

CUOMO: Oh, OK. You can steal anything. Give me some. I've got to get them in now, because we all know what she's doing to us. All right.

So late night comics have just been having so much fun with this election. So you've got Ted Cruz. You've got Bernie Sanders. What did they do with it last night? Here. Come on give me some more.

PEREIRA: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, THE TONIGHT SHOW: Bernie's win last night marked his sixth straight victory against Hillary Clinton. And when Bernie received a concession call from Hillary, his assistant said, "Bernie, the call is coming from inside the house." I also read that Bernie Sanders has raised more money than Hillary

Clinton for the third month in a row. Bernie Sanders has so much money, now he can't vote for Bernie Sanders.

SETH MEYERS, HOST, LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS: Following his win in Wisconsin, Ted Cruz today campaigned in the Bronx. Said Cruz supporters, none of us live there.

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders have scheduled a debate for next Thursday in Brooklyn, which is about as close as Bernie Sanders can get to Wall Street without spontaneously combusting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: It's been very interesting to see him in Brooklyn.

CUOMO: Bernie is from Brooklyn.

PEREIRA: Yes, you couldn't tell.

CUOMO: Well, the Vermont accent throws you off. And the Clinton operation, the campaign, is in Brooklyn.

PEREIRA: Is in Brooklyn, yes.

CUOMO: It's really the Westside Story (inaudible).

KATE BOLDUAN, CO-HOST, NEW DAY: She is the nucleus of everything, as it will be next week.

Well, the RNC gearing up for a contested convention you've heard so much about after Ted Cruz snagged Wisconsin, defeating Trump. How would all of this play out in July? We're talking to someone who is the most familiar with this process. He'll dumb it down for us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Did Wisconsin reset the Republican race? Now, all eyes are on New York, and Donald Trump is holding a huge lead in the polls here. But is it too late for Trump to prevent a contested convention in July?

Joining us is former New Hampshire governor and former chief of staff for President George H.W. Bush, John Sununu. And of particular relevance, Mr. Sununu chaired the rules committee at the 2012 Republican Convention, so he has a unique perspective on this whole process.

Governor, thanks so much for being here.

JOHN SUNUNU, FORMER NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR: Morning, Allyson.

BOLDUAN: I haven't talked to you since Wisconsin. So how do you assess the state of the race today? Did Wisconsin reshuffle the deck?

SUNUNU: I don't it reshuffled it. It moved it in the direction a lot of people saw it was going in, and that is toward an open convention. And the odds, I think, are about 60, 70 percent at this point.

BOLDUAN: OK, so as we said, you chaired the rules committee. I can't think of a wonkier title for what you did in 2012. So you're the perfect person to talk about the arcana of how this is all going to work. If nobody gets to that 1,237 number, what is going happen at the convention?

SUNUNU: Well, it took 8.5 hours to prepare the rules that were then sent to the floor for approval last time, so it's going to be interesting.

Look, let's put into context this 40(b) that everybody keeps talking about. First of all, Rule 42 makes it clear that 40(b) is part of those rules that are only applying to last time convention and that the new rules will be developed for this convention.

BOLDUAN: And can you just tell us what 40 -- just remind us of what 4(b) is.

SUNUNU: 40(b), the controversial piece of 40(b) said that in order to be nominated from the floor, in order to be allocated time -- basically to be allocated time in front of the television cameras for a demonstration and then to get, I think it was four speakers to speak to the -- to the television audience on how wonderful you are.

40(b) says that in order to be nominated in the process, you had to have eight states in essence, so the majority of the delegates from eight states --

BOLDUAN: Right.

SUNUNU: -- ask that you be nominated.

BOLDUAN: And will that --

SUNUNU: But Allyson, let me add one --

BOLDUAN: Go ahead.

SUNUNU: -- thing here. It does not say that people cannot vote for people that have not been nominated in that glorious way. And in fact, last time, Romney got a little over -- you know, everybody released their delegates. Mitt got over 2,000 votes from the delegates, but Ron Paul got almost 200 votes. Jon Huntsman got some votes. Rick Santorum got some votes.

BOLDUAN: Right.

SUNUNU: Michelle Bachmann. A whole handful of people got votes, even though they weren't nominated from the floor.

BOLDUAN: OK.

SUNUNU: Those were legitimate, valid votes.

BOLDUAN: OK, so take us -- SUNUNU: All 40(b) applies to is the nominating.

BOLDUAN: I mean, so -- but what that means for July. So --

SUNUNU: OK.

BOLDUAN: -- after the first vote, then are all bets off? And anybody can vote for anyone?

SUNUNU: Even in the first round, many delegates can vote for anyone. And not every delegate is firmly bound.

And the second point that is really crucial is that every convention rewrites its rules to reflect the situation of the delegates coming in and other circumstances. Last time we had to worry about the fact that a hurricane had cutoff one day of the convention. And we were, if you will, very frugal with prime time television and therefore concerned about limiting the number of nominations.

BOLDUAN: Right. I remember that.

SUNUNU: I suspect this will -- this will not be the case this time. And there won't be that time pressure to say you can't nominate two, three, four, five candidates.

BOLDUAN: OK, so what's going to be happen? I mean, I think that you've spelled out that it is a bit of a free for all and that it is commonplace for the rules to be rewritten on the fly. We shouldn't see that as some sort of anomaly. That happens.

SUNUNU: Right.

BOLDUAN: So what is going to happen this time?

SUNUNU: I don't know. The chairman, Chairman Priebus, is going to have to decide. The rules committee is made up of two of the delegates from each of the states and the territories, so it'll be about 110 people.

They'll select a chairman. They'll sit down a day or so before the convention. They'll prepare the rules. Everybody gets a chance to propose changes to all of the rules. They debate those. They take a vote, and they move on.

And then they present the package to the -- to the chairman of the convention, and the chairman of the convention presents it to the delegates. And a majority of the delegates have to approve the rules that come with a recommendation from the rules committee.

BOLDUAN: OK. And that's where Paul Ryan comes in. Do you see anyway by which Paul Ryan, in addition to his role as the head of the convention, then becomes a candidate?

SUNUNU: Well, do I see any way it could happen? Delegates can start voting for Paul Ryan any time, including unbound delegates can vote for him on the first ballot. There's no -- there's nothing that tells delegates what they can and can't do, except the one ballot rule binding some of them from their states.

BOLDUAN: I wanted to ask you, separate and apart from this, another question. Given your role in the Bush White House, are you surprised by how often the name Ronald Reagan is invoked in this 2016 race?

SUNUNU: No, because he invoked it a lot in 1988. It's a -- it's a very important reference point for Republicans.

Unfortunately, a lot of people that invoke it don't really understand the principles of the man they're invoking. But Ronald Reagan is a good touch point for all Republicans and is a good reference point. And I'm not surprised that it's a great place for rhetoric in the Republican primary to go to.

BOLDUAN: You're right. Ronald Reagan is a perennial favorite of candidates and beyond. Governor, thanks so much for walking us through all of that. It does seem chaotic, but you understand it. We appreciate you --