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War of Words Intensifies Ahead of N.Y. Primary; Trump's New Convention Manager Talks Strategy; Pope Francis Issues Document on Marriage & Family. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 08, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL DE BLASIO (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: -- humanity is the New York City subway.

CAMEROTA: I totally agree with you. It is a melting pot that you've never seen before until you ride the New York subway. Everybody interacting.

DE BLASIO: You want to meet thousands of people really quickly? Just get on the subway.

CAMEROTA: There you go. And have an intimate exchange with them.

Mr. Mayor, thanks so much for coming into NEW DAY. Great to have you on.

We're following a lot of news this morning, including a big announcement from Pope Francis. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The American people might wonder about your qualifications.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's keep our eye on what's really at stake in this election.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When a politician's lips are moving, we know they're lying.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a dirty business, politics.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are in crisis, and help is on the way.

PEREIRA: Pope Francis on love, marriage, and the modern family.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You are welcome into the church. We are opening the doors to you.

CUOMO: This is about contextualizing the faith, not changing the faith.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are worried about protecting people's rights. People of faith have rights.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The battle over religious freedom laws in the south.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do we follow the law or do we follow the code of ethics?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY.

Democrats sounding more like Republicans, engaging in mudslinging this week. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders resorting to personal attacks in a fight over who is qualified or less qualified to be president. Is the negative tone of the campaign going to stick around?

CUOMO: So on the other side of the ball, you've got Donald Trump beefing up his campaign team, hiring a new convention manager. We're going to speak with him exclusively in a moment.

This is happening as Ted Cruz is standing by his controversial New York values comments. In fact, you can say he's even going deeper on it.

Plus, we also have breaking news out of the Vatican. Pope Francis just issued an historic document on marriage and the family. Will he call for change?

Let's begin with the 2016 race. We've got Phil Mattingly joining us here with more. Good morning, phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

Well, 95 delegates at stake in New York. And it looks like, at least according to yesterday, every candidate is trying to out-New York one other. There were subway rides. There were visits to an Italian deli in the Bronx. There was, of course, a visit to a matzo brakery [SIC] 0-- bakery.

The tension underlying both of these races is not going anywhere and both campaigns really roiled.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): 2016 presidential hopefuls hitting the streets of the Big Apple, courting voters ahead of New York's primary. Ted Cruz in Brooklyn making matzo. Secretary Clinton attempting to drum up support among subway riders.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How are you?

MATTINGLY: And fending off Senator Bernie Sanders' attacks. SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Are you qualified to be president of the United States when you're raising millions of dollars from Wall Street, an entity whose greed, recklessness and illegal behavior helped destroy our economy?

MATTINGLY: Sanders refusing to back down Thursday.

SANDERS: I'm not going to get beaten up. I'm not going to get lied about. We will fight back.

MATTINGLY: Clinton trying to take the high road in a stop in front of Yankee Stadium.

CLINTON: I don't know why he's saying that, but I would take Bernie Sanders over Donald Trump or Ted Cruz any time.

MATTINGLY: Tensions in both races ratcheting up, with Ted Cruz continuing to defend his New York values comments, slamming New York's politicians. And Donald Trump.

CRUZ: Our friends in the media tell us that Donald Trump is unstoppable in New York state. And they really want to see a general election between two New York liberals who agree on Washington being the center of the universe.

MATTINGLY: John Kasich looking to capitalize on the backlash, touring a deli in the Bronx.

KASICH: How about a little cheese on the top of this? Mama mia.

MATTINGLY: Both his campaign and super PAC launching full-scale attack ads aimed at Cruz.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ted Cruz sneered at our New York values.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New Yorkers aren't stupid, Ted.

MATTINGLY: Donald Trump seizing on his home court advantage.

TRUMP: This is home. It's great to be home.

MATTINGLY: Backing out of scheduled stops in California and Colorado to take closed-door meetings with his staff.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Guys, all eyes really on the Trump campaign. Most notably how their staffing adds up right now, one man in particular, Paul Manafort, the new convention manager. I have a feeling Chris Cuomo has some interesting insight into that right now.

CUOMO: Phil Mattingly with excellent execution of the alley oop. I will grab that ball and slam-dunk it.

Let's talk now with Donald Trump's newly-minted convention manager, Paul Manafort. This is not Manafort's first rodeo. He is a veteran political strategist. He protected Ford; he worked with Bush. He knows what's going on. He's been in contested convention. I won't say when because he looks like he's 30 years old.

Paul Manafort joins us now.

Sir, welcome to NEW DAY.

PAUL MANAFORT, DONALD TRUMP'S CONVENTION MANAGER: Thank you.

CUOMO: Let's talk about first what you need in this campaign. Eyebrows went up: "Paul Manafort. Uh-oh. This is a shakeup. Everything's going to change now. This is the man."

A statement comes out and says, "No, Corey Lewandowski is the man. They're going to work closely together." What's the deal?

MANAFORT: This is an example of Donald Trump managing and the kind of leadership he'll bring to the presidency after November.

Campaigns have different phases. Trump has done a historic thing in this campaign: with message and with social media become the first modern presidential candidate and showing how it can work.

But because the campaigns come in stages, he also understood that there becomes a time when winning isn't enough. But it's how you win and how much you win. And he recognized this was the time. And he reached out to some people who suggested me. We got together. I've known Donald since the 1980s. And we talked about it. He felt I could help him, as I felt. And he made the changes.

CUOMO: Are you the boss's boss now?

MANAFORT: I work directly with the boss.

CUOMO: So that's it. You only have one guy you listen to and it's Trump?

MANAFORT: Well, I listen to everybody. But I have one man whose voice is louder than anybody else's.

CUOMO: The one guy you have to listen to is Trump.

All right. So that gives us a little better handle on this situation. Now you've got the immediate challenge, which is what do you do if it goes to a convention? Yes, you know the convention from '76. Not like what's going on right now.

I want to play for you about what Senator Cruz just said about where he sees his path going forward even before a convention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: We have a clear path forward to get to 1,237 delegates. It's difficult. We've got to win. And we've got to win consistently. But I'll point out in the last three weeks, we've won in four states in a row. We won a landslide in Utah. Nearly 70 percent of the vote. We got all of the delegates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: What do you say?

MANAFORT: Well, he's right. He has to win. He hasn't won. And that and New York are both two different states. And Utah's vote total and New York's vote total are two different totals.

The reality is, Ted Cruz has seen his best day. The reality is, this convention process will be over with sometime in June. Probably June 7. And it will be apparent to the world that Trump is over the 1,237 number. And at that point in time, when it is apparent, everything is going to come together.

CUOMO: You think Trump gets to 1,237?

MANAFORT: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Before the convention?

MANAFORT: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Why the confidence?

MANAFORT: Because I know the votes.

CUOMO: But he has to win a very high percentage of the remaining delegates.

MANAFORT: Well, you've got to look at where the winning has to happen. And where the winning has to happen is where he's the strongest. We're not talking about winning 30 votes in New York or whatever it was in Utah. We're talking about winning over 80 votes in one day in New York. That sets a lot of ships straight, as an example.

And there's Pennsylvania. There's New Jersey. There's Maryland. There's Connecticut. These are his wheelhouse.

Yes, California is going to be important. But by the time we get to California, the momentum is going to be very clear. And Ted Cruz's path to victory is going to be in shambles.

CUOMO: Well, he's using -- Cruz is using momentum right now to his favor, right? You have to win the delegates. You also have to keep them.

Put up the graphic of what's been happening later. Colorado, Cruz has gone back; he's picked up six delegates. You know what he's doing in Arizona. He is trying to recruit his own pro-Cruz delegates. Smart thinking, obviously. Louisiana, he's now going after Rubio's pledged delegates.

And a lot of the concern about this, to our understanding, is what fueled bringing you in. This guy's beating us at the game. Is that true?

MANAFORT: You've got to understand what the game is. If the game is a second, third, fourth ballot, then what he's doing is clever. But if there's only one ballot, what he's doing is meaningless. Because these stolen delegates, as he calls them -- we're going to be able to do as well in the next couple weeks -- these stolen delegates, they still have to vote for Trump on the first ballot. And if it's clear in June that Trump is over the 1,237, these are Republicans. They're not going to vote to kill the party. They're going to come behind, and maybe Cruz will have a chance on the convention floor to give a speech. And -- but they're going to be -- the convention is going to be united.

CUOMO: How do you separate winning with how you win, in terms of who you're dealing with in Trump. Now that you've come in, Trump is unlike anybody that you've worked with before, at least in running for president. And when you look at the numbers, just if you put up just the straight FOX News, which you would have used to say was the home team. Now I don't know with you guys. But 65 unfavorable, 31 favorable. This goes hand in hand with his ability to win. How do you change Trump to get away from this ratio of 65/35? I don't like it.

MANAFORT: This is a contested primary number. Clinton's numbers are just as high. They're at levels that would be unsustainable in historical terms. Cruz's numbers are not much better.

And it's -- so it doesn't really matter today. If he was at that number in September, I'd be concerned. He's not going to be at that number in September.

CUOMO: Why not? Because they don't seem to move that much.

MANAFORT: Well, they will, because we're in a competitive situation where he's out in the boxing ring every day for the last nine months.

[07:10:11] Once the convention process moves towards unifying, which it will, and after the convention, when he is the nominee of the party, then we'll have the summer to put the campaign together. The Democrats are not going to have the summer to put the campaign together. They've got a convention that's going to be fractured.

CUOMO: You think they're the ones with the fractured convention? Not you?

MANAFORT: By the time summer comes, absolutely.

CUOMO: Where does the optimism come from? I mean, you are the guys who are head and head. Maybe you don't -- the math doesn't look good for you right now. Certainly not the way it does for Clinton.

MANAFORT: Because I've done this a lot. And I've been through these. I mean, I can go back to '76 when everybody was saying Ford can never unite the party. We came down to Florida winning that election. I mean, Hawaii to win. Three o'clock in the morning when I shut off the lights and we got the final numbers. That's how close it was. But if you'd talked to people in June, Ford didn't have a chance. He

wasn't even going to be the nominee. Same thing with Reagan in 1980. Carter was wishing for Reagan in 1980. Reagan's numbers were not very good. He united the party and went on to a landslide.

CUOMO: All right. So then the other aspect of the surprise coming in this is Trump picks Manafort to work on his team. Trump, who says, "I'm not playing that insider game. I'm not about the establishment. I know what it is. I'm the opposite of that."

You are as connected to the insider game of what you've even said on record yourself, influence peddling, as anybody. How can you be the antidote or anything to help Trump when you seem to go against his main message?

MANAFORT: Basically, he talked to you about part of the establishment and anti-establishment. But the point is, that I understand this stuff. I've run campaigns. That doesn't make you the establishment. It's the establishment if you buy into -- I'm not a lobbyist. I haven't been involved in lobbying in 20 years. I don't spend much time in Washington.

Am I involved in politics? Yes. Do I have relationships that go back to the system? Yes. Some of those relationships see me as a bridge to Trump now. They want to be for Trump; they didn't have a way in. They're now talking to me for finding a way in.

CUOMO: But the perception is shady. When you look at the history, what happened in HUD is shady. These hearings on Congress, they're like this kind of influence peddling shouldn't happen. Ukraine, is shady.

(CROSSTALK)

MANAFORT: ... politics.

CUOMO: You were on, like, the wrong side of the people's revolution the United States was trying to support.

MANAFORT: In the country, I was the guy who negotiated the deal that brought the Ukraine to Europe.

CUOMO: But you were with the guy that people wanted to throw out who has connections to Russia, and then you've got Trump, who's saying nice things about Putin. And he brings in a guy who was helping someone who was connected to Russian bad guys?

MANAFORT: We can talk foreign policy any time, because it's a very complex thing. But at the end of the day, the agreement that the current president, who I also helped get into power, signed was an agreement that I negotiated with Ukraine for the European Union. That's the reason that there was a document for Poroshenko to sign.

CUOMO: You're not concerned that, if you want to help Trump, that you will see compromise and being able to stand up and say, "We won't play any dirty insider games. That's not who we're about. We're different," like Trump promises?

MANAFORT: Absolutely. I'm inheriting a great situation. All I've got to do is steer the ship in a little bit in a bit of a different direction.

CUOMO: Well, the question becomes are you the right captain? Right? Because if Trump's point wants to be, "Look, this is not a character judgment. That's for other people." And you know they've done plenty of that when you're involved. But to say, "I'm different." That's what Trump says. "I'm different. I don't play this game."

That's what you've done your entire professional life. Is that the right guy to captain a ship that's supposed to be heading into better waters?

MANAFORT: Well, Donald Trump thought it was.

CUOMO: And what do you think's going to happen now with people digesting you're hear and that it's you and your past? What do you think it's going to mean for the campaign?

MANAFORT: They're going to do what's happening now. They're coming to me to find ways to get involved in the Trump campaign.

CUOMO: You see more people want to get involved?

MANAFORT: People that I know who want to get involved.

CUOMO: Do you think...

MANAFORT: Who wanted to before but didn't have a way in.

CUOMO: What does that mean, didn't have a way in?

MANAFORT: They didn't know people. They didn't know Donald. And Donald was running the campaign for a certain point in time. But that's changed now.

CUOMO: Do you think that you will be able to maintain friendly to the party power structure that you need to, to get this done? If you're wrong about the 1,237 -- leave it conditionally -- and you go to convention, he's got to have the right people liking him. Do you think you can make that happen?

MANAFORT: I think he has built a career in being successful with people.

CUOMO: And the extra help that he needs. Do you think you can work those connections if it comes down to that?

MANAFORT: Connections? It's making sure the doors are open. People see Donald Trump, they like Donald Trump. When they understand what he wants to do as president, they like him even more. So I don't view my job as molding Donald Trump. I view my job as making sure people get a chance to understand and see and meet Donald Trump. CUOMO: Just so we get one of the headlines out of this. Even though

you're said to come in and help with what happens at the convention, you're saying you think it's over before the convention. You think Donald Trump gets to 1,237 before you're in Cleveland?

MANAFORT: If we run the right campaign, yes.

CUOMO: Paul Manafort, thank you for being on NEW DAY. Good luck to you going forward -- Mick.

PEREIRA: All right. To our breaking news out of the Vatican. This morning, the church releasing a long-awaited papal document spelling out important stances on marriage and the family, and it also addresses same-sex marriage.

[07:15:13] Our Vatican correspondent, Delia Gallagher, is live in Rome with all the breaking details.

You had a chance to go through that document.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Michaela. Let me say, it is a beautiful and actually poetic document. Worth the read if you have time to read the 260 pages that the pope has written.

As to the important points about the document, no major doctrinal changes. That's no major changes to traditional church teachings. So the pope says marriage is between a man and woman. Gay unions are not equivalent to marriage. That falls with traditional teachings.

At the same time he wants to welcome people who are in different family situations into the church. He says over and over again, we do not want discrimination. We do not want harsh judgments on people who are in what the Catholic Church calls irregular family situations.

There was a big issue about divorce and remarried couples, because before this they were not allowed to participate in various activities of the Catholic Church, such as being a godparent, reading at mass, and receiving communion. The pope does not pronounce specifically on receiving communion for divorced and remarried Catholics.

He does say this: "It is important the divorced who have entered into a union should be made to feel part of the church. They are not excommunicated, and they should not be treated as such." He says they remain part of the ecclesial community.

This is the bottom line of this document, is the reiteration of the pope's theme that nobody should be left out. It is a message to Catholics and it is a message to those who have felt excluded from the Catholic Church -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Delia. Thanks so much for explaining all of that.

Well, the Democratic race taking an ugly turn over the last few days. Are these sharp attacks hurting the party?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:21:13] CHARLIE ROSE, PBS: Do you believe Secretary Clinton is unqualified to be president?

SANDERS: Well, does Secretary Clinton believe that I am unqualified?

ROSE: Why can't you simply say yes?

SANDERS: She has years of experience. She is extremely intelligent.

ROSE: So why couldn't you say...

SANDERS: Because she is -- you know, I have some experience, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Bernie Sanders being pressed over his recent claim Hillary Clinton was not qualified to be president. Did he put the issue to rest?

Let's discuss it with New York Congressman and Hillary Clinton supporter, Representative Hakeem Jeffries. Congressman, thanks so much for being here.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D), NEW YORK: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Was that a satisfying answer that Senator Sanders gave?

JEFFRIES: Not at all. I'm not -- I'm not sure why Senator Sanders has chosen to go down this path. Clearly, Hillary Clinton is one of the most qualified Americans ever to seek the presidency, as first lady, secretary of state.

CAMEROTA: He said that he was returning in kind fire. Basically, that he thought she had said he wasn't qualified, so he's just giving it back to her.

JEFFRIES: Well, she's never made that assertion. And so I'm not sure why Senator Sanders is so willing to go down that path. But at the end of the day the debate should be about issues, and hopefully, we'll see Senators Sanders' campaign return to dealing with the issues that New Yorkers care about.

In particular, the communities that I represent are concerned about Senator Sanders' record on gun control, where he's consistently been on the wrong side of the issue, voting with the NRA and against the interests of the people.

CAMEROTA: Is Senator Sanders qualified to be president?

JEFFRIES: Well, I think that he has qualifications that many people have been attracted to. Ultimately people of Democratic Party are going to have to make that determination. But certainly, as Hillary Clinton has said, if the choice is between Senator Sanders and either Donald Trump or Ted Cruz, it's not even a close choice.

CAMEROTA: How do you explain the changing tone?

JEFFRIES: Well, I think Senator Sanders is down, notwithstanding the momentum that he claims to have. Hillary Clinton has gotten more than 9 million votes throughout the democratic process, more than 2.5 million votes more than Senator Sanders has received. We're up by over 200 pledged delegates. I think there is some desperation, actually, in terms of the need for Senator Sanders to do well in New York, as well as the states that will follow in Pennsylvania, in Maryland, and Connecticut, where he's not on friendly demographic territory.

CAMEROTA: You talk about gun policy. And that has become a point of contrast in the race. In fact, Hillary Clinton has suggested that Bernie Sanders might bear some responsibility for the pain of the Sandy Hook families because of his votes in terms of gun manufacturers.

And he countered and said, well, then maybe Senator Clinton bears some responsibility for the pain of fallen U.S. soldiers' families because of her vote on the Iraq War.

And then Senator Sanders' campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, said something we hadn't heard at all before in this election about Hillary Clinton bearing some responsibility for the rise of ISIS. Let me play that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF WEAVER, CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR SANDERS: She supported the war in Iraq. She continues to have a very, very hawkish foreign policy, which has led to the rise and the expansion of ISIS throughout the Middle East.

Her campaign is funded by millions and millions of dollars from Wall Street and other special interests. She's really made a deal with the devil. We all know the devil wants his money in the end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What do you think of those comments?

JEFFRIES: Those are very unfortunate comments. We can take it step by state, first as it relates to Senator Sanders' record on guns. We know he voted five times against background checks. He voted twice to shield gun manufacturers from liability. He voted once to allow guns on Amtrak. That's unfortunate in a country where we've got 5 percent of the world's population, 50 percent of the world's guns, and 10,000 Americans die each and every year as a result of gun violence.

So clearly, that's fair game.

As it relates to Senator Clinton's -- former Senator Clinton's position on ISIS, I mean, she's been strongly a supporter of President Obama's policies, which have made progress. Clearly, we have to do more.

[07:25:14] CAMEROTA: Is it the U.S. foreign policy that is to blame for the rise of ISIS? That almost seemed to be what he was suggesting.

JEFFRIES: It is a very difficult connection for anybody to make. Clearly, there were mistakes that were made by the Bush administration in Iraq that led to the formation of al Qaeda in Iraq. And Al Qaeda in Iraq was a precursor to ISIS.

But to blame Senator Clinton at the time, who was in the Senate, for what has ultimately happened in the Middle East, where there's been centuries of problems that no one has been able to resolve is stretching it.

CAMEROTA: Something else happened on the campaign trail yesterday. That was Bill Clinton was disrupted by Black Lives Matter protesters. They were shouting and taking issue with, I believe, Hillary Clinton's previous use of the term "super predator." Let me just play this moment for you in his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know how you would characterize the gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack and send them out on the street to murder other African-American children. Maybe you thought they were good citizens. She didn't. She didn't. You are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter. Tell the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Do the Black Lives Matter protesters have reason to still be angry?

JEFFRIES: Well, certainly the Black Lives Matter movement has raised very important issues, particularly as it relates to unarmed African- American men being disproportionately killed and victimized by police violence across the country. And often those officers are not held accountable. Those are issues that we're going to have to confront. And America and Black Lives Matter has raised that to a level of debate that's very important for our discourse.

I understand why President Clinton would feel the need to defend the 1994 Crime Bill that he signed into law. There were some good things that were in that bill. And I would also note, I wasn't in Congress at the time, but a majority of the Congressional Black Caucus saw fit at the time to actually support that legislation.

Now in retrospect, hindsight is 20-20. It has led to an exacerbation of the mass incarceration phenomenon that we've got in America. We've got to do a lot to correct that to reform our broken criminal justice system.

But, you know, there are no winners on either side of this debate. Bernie Sanders was actually in the House of Representatives at the time and voted for the 1994 Crime Bill.

And the other thing that we know is Vermont has one of the highest rates of African-American incarceration in the country. And over the last 34 years of public service, Bernie Sanders has managed to do nothing about that particular issue.

So more needs to be done. Senator Sanders clearly has got some issues in that area. I understand why President Clinton felt the need to defend what he signed in 1994.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Jeffries, thank you so much for coming in to NEW DAY.

JEFFRIES: Thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: Good to talk to you.

Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Religious freedom measures are surging in the South. Are they a reaction to the Supreme Court same-sex marriage ruling? Up next, we're going to debate the motive of these measures.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)