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Trump Blasts 'Rigged' GOP Delegate System; Kasich Participates in First of 3 GOP Town Halls; Clinton, Sanders Sharpen Attacks Ahead of Debate. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 12, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[07:00:04] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a rigged, disgusting, dirty system.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Donald Trump sounding off.

TRUMP: It's a fix. They said they're going to do it by delegate. Oh, isn't that nice?

MATTINGLY: Criticizing the primary system in Colorado after losing all 34 state delegates to Ted Cruz over the weekend. RNC Chairman Reince Priebus taking to Twitter to defend the process, writing, "The rules were set last year. Nothing mysterious. Nothing new. The rules have not changed."

Ted Cruz also responding to Trump's frustration at a rally in California.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He yells, and screams, and stamps his foot. Look, as we know in the state of California, wine is something best served with cheese.

MATTINGLY: And blaming the frontrunner's losses on the failures of Trump's own campaign.

CRUZ (via phone): Their team is not remotely organizing on the ground. It's not based on the people. Donald is about Donald.

MATTINGLY: John Kasich acknowledging the complex delegate rules in a CNN town hall last night.

KASICH: It's a bizarre process. I'm not really in the middle of it.

MATTINGLY: Colorado just the latest state where Trump has been out- maneuvered by Cruz in key delegate fights.

TRUMP: When everything is done, I find out I get less delegates than this guy that got his ass kicked, OK? Give me a break.

MATTINGLY: Trump looking to New York to shift the tide back in his favor.

TRUMP: He's Lyin' Ted Cruz, folks. Remember that. And he does not like the people of New York. And that came out loud and clear.

MATTINGLY: Even though his own children missed the registration deadline and won't be able to vote for their father in his home state.

TRUMP (via phone): They were, you know, unaware of the rules. I think they have to register a year in advance, and they didn't. So Eric and Ivanka, I guess, won't be voting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: The delegates system, Ted Cruz. But don't forget Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump also going in on the potential Democratic candidate last night, calling her life a big, fat, beautiful lie, a potential window into what we may see, should Trump win the Republican nomination.

But guys, the first thing he has to do is actually get there. And clearly, there are some problems on that front going forward -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Such an interesting turn of phrase. All right, Phil, thanks so much.

In the meantime, Ohio Governor John Kasich lagging behind in the delegate count, way behind, now says he is stepping up his game. Kasich and his family appealing to New York voters in a CNN town hall last night, vowing to go all the way to the convention.

Our White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski, is live on set with us, now with more.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: In this format, your opponent is completely out of it. Nobody yelling at you. Nobody calling you a liar or a loser. No fights breaking out. It's just you and your entire family. What could possibly go wrong, right?

But when you think about it, the audience could ask anybody a question, including your teenage kids, who may or may not be on their best behavior at any given time. So there's definitely a potential for some headlines there.

But what this format does is it gives you an unusually personal look at the candidate and also a much different framework for looking at the issues. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAREN KASICH, WIFE OF JOHN KASICH: I'm the grill master in the family.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Governor, can you cook at all?

K. KASICH: No.

KOSINSKI (voice-over): The entire Kasich family center stage at a CNN town hall. J. KASICH: I'm not that great. OK? Honestly. I'm doing the best I

can.

K. KASICH: You're pretty good at respecting us.

J. KASICH: Well, yes. I surrendered to you long ago.

KOSINSKI: The Republican presidential candidate joined by his wife Karen and twin daughters Emma and Reese, giving voters an intimate look at their life together.

REESE KASICH, JOHN KASICH'S DAUGHTER: He is just really godly and really, really fun. And sometimes a little silly. He's really loving. He's always checking up on us.

KOSINSKI: And speaking glowingly about him and his bid for president.

K. KASICH: I'm super proud of the way he has run this campaign and the way he's behaved. And I'm proud of the way people react to that.

KOSINSKI: Kasich taking the opportunity to reiterate his confidence that he'll win the nomination at a contested convention in July.

J. KASICH: I'm the only one that consistently beats Hillary in the fall. And also, they're going to try to figure out who has the record and the experience to be president. So it will become a very serious, heavy matter when we get into that convention, and it's all about the delegates.

KOSINSKI: And rejecting talk that he could be tapped for Donald Trump's V.P.

J. KASICH: I would be the worst vice president the country ever saw. You know why? Because I'm not like a vice president. I'm a president.

KOSINSKI: The Ohio governor explaining his position on the so-called religious freedom bills making their way across the South.

J. KASICH: I may not appreciate a certain lifestyle or even approve of it. But I can -- it doesn't mean I've got to go write a law and try to figure out how to have another wedge issue.

KOSINSKI: While his 16-year-old daughters reveal some of their father's quirkier habits.

EMMA KASICH, DAUGHTER OF JOHN KASICH: He just tries to tell jokes that he thinks are funny. But they're mostly just funny to us because they're dumb.

R. KASICH: And he also thinks he's a really good dancer.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Uh-oh.

[07:05:06] R. KASICH: So North, South...

COOPER: Wait, North, South? That's his move?

J. KASICH: Well, you've got to go north and south. You can't do this, over. You've got to go to the north and south, and I'm really, really good. Just kidding.

What do you think, Reese? I've gotten better.

R. KASICH: Yes. But you're not going to go on "Dancing with the Stars."

KOSINSKI: The Kasichs opening up about issues confronting all families, like bullying.

J. KASICH: I tell my daughters you need to stand up against it. and I think, Reese, there was an occasion where you did, didn't you? This is a big, big deal and a big problem. And we've got to look out for our kids, even when they are not our kids.

KOSINSKI: In an emotional moment, Kasich revealed how his family has changed his life.

J. KASICH: Marrying Karen, she's been just fantastic and such a great supporter. With the girls, you know, I love -- I love all of them so much. And that's where faith has to come in, because you know, they're now driving. And it's every -- and, you know, Reese had a boyfriend. Emma has a boyfriend. Is that a boyfriend that you have? I don't know. OK.

You know, at some point you have to let them go, right? You have to let them lead their own lives, and you have to have the faith that you did it the right way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: There's such a different feel with this format. I mean, you don't have the candidates trying to be combative or trying too hard, trying to sound presidential. It's really more about their personality, their relationship with their family.

And Kasich was able to talk about the big speech that he's giving this morning that he's calling two paths. He's going to contrast what his opponents are putting out there. He says that is fomenting fear with his own path that he says is about unity.

Back to you guys.

CAMEROTA: All right, Michelle. Thanks so much for all of that. So interesting to see him with his family.

Let's bring in now Christine Todd-Whitman, the former New Jersey governor and EPA administrator. She has endorsed John Kasich.

Governor, thanks so much for being here.

CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN, FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: My pleasure. Delighted to be with you.

CAMEROTA: Dads, you know, talking about his teenage daughters dating. I mean, wasn't that interesting to see him with his family?

WHITMAN: It was wonderful, because what gives people is a sense of who the person is as a human being. And that gives you an understanding of how they will approach issues.

And I've endorsed him not because I particularly want to stop anybody else. He's the candidate I believe who can actually make the country work again.

CAMEROTA: But don't you...

WHITMAN: His experience tells you that. He's done it.

CAMEROTA: But don't you want to stop Donald Trump?

WHITMAN: I do. Don't get me wrong. I don't want Donald Trump for president. I don't think he would serve our country well.

But really, it's more about who is going to be able to make the country work and who can bring people together. And John Kasich has done it throughout his career and been very successful. He's got the track record. And you saw last night the kind of person he was with the family and the family support, and I loved the repartee back and forth. His jokes are dumb. And he's not going to be on "Dancing with the Stars".

CAMEROTA: Right. I mean, it's dangerous to have your teenage daughters on to testify about who you are -- right, about your dancing and everything.

So as you say, you've supported Governor Kasich. You endorsed him back in February. He's only won one state. He's won his home state of Ohio. He has 145 delegates as a result. Obviously, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump have many more. So how can he justify staying in the race?

WHITMAN: Because the people are voting for him. Because this is an open contest. This is what allows people to make their choices. And the thing about it is that people don't understand, there are a lot of people who are voting for Ted Cruz right now because they think that's a way to stop Donald Trump.

What you need to do is Ted Cruz or John Kasich. You can vote for John Kasich. That's not going to give Trump an opening. That's actually going -- what you want is a concentrated enough number of delegates away from Trump so that it goes beyond the first ballot.

And right now that's -- I think it's going to be a contested convention, no matter what. And everybody gets -- we in New Jersey have our primary in June. And we deserve to be heard. We have a right to be heard. And if we vote for John Kasich, then we have a right to be at the convention that way. CAMEROTA: John Kasich talked about this last night. I mean, he

basically said that that's what he's banking on. That he's going to make it to the convention, and he's banking on a third vote at the third ballot.

WHITMAN: Right.

CAMEROTA: And that's when he would sort of come to the fourth. So listen to how he justifies his path.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Why would a delegate pick you if the only state you've actually won is Ohio?

KASICH: Well, let's see how many delegates we accumulate. But why would you pick somebody who can't win in the fall?

Let me tell you what the stakes are. I believe that if you pick these other guys, you're not only going to lose the White House you will lose the court; you will lose the United States Senate. And you're going to lose a lot of...

COOPER: Why can't Ted Cruz win?

KASICH: Because they're too divisive. They're too negative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Governor, if he only has a fraction of the delegates going into the convention that Donald Trump or Ted Cruz has, and if it takes till the third ballot, won't voters feel as though their will has been subverted somehow?

WHITMAN: Probably Cruz supporters will, but if it goes some other way, the Kasich supporters will. I mean, every national poll John Kasich beats Hillary Clinton. He's the only one who does that in every poll.

[07:10:06] If you want to win, I mean, put aside you want the right person to be president of the United States who can restore the country's dignity and respect abroad and actually bring people together and govern. And concentrate on do you want to win the election? And how many seats do you want to lose in the House and the Senate? You want someone who's going to have coattails. Kasich is the only one who beats her.

So you know, this is a process in the rules of the Senate a year ago, you can like them; you can not like them. This is where we are. Everybody knew what they were going in. It's confusing. It's frustrating at times. But this is democracy at work.

CAMEROTA: Last night he was asked about another issue that has come to the fore lately, and that is that the Mississippi legislation that is considered anti-LGBT in some corners. Let me play for you what his response to that was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J. KASICH: I read about this thing they did in Mississippi where apparently you can deny somebody service because they're gay? What the hell are we doing in this country?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Strong words. But does that win you a primary?

WHITMAN: You know, the thing about this is, it wins a general election. Because the majority of the American people really are in the center. The Republicans have been captured by the far right, moving farther right for a long time.

The Democrats started this process a while ago. They've not been quite as -- they haven't been at it as long as we have. They don't give as good crazy quotes as we do from time to time.

So it's one of those things: it's not healthy for the country. And what's happened, until this election, people were getting so frustrated and so mad that they just aren't voting. And I was at a restaurant in New York last night and listening to the couple next to us, where they said, "I'm not going to vote. I'm not going to vote, because I don't like my choices.

And you want to say that's exactly the wrong reaction. You've got to register where you are. And even if you think you may be throwing away a vote, you're making a statement. And that's what's important in a democracy.

CAMEROTA: You, of course, were the administrator in the EPA under President Bush. So in terms of environmental issues, what do you say to critics of John Kasich's who think that fracking is dangerous?

WHITMAN: Well, I'm on a board that's trying to make fracking as safe as it can with rules that go beyond regulation and law. This fracking is going to happen. And there are tradeoffs in any kind of energy we choose.

You have problems with windmills. Birds don't look the same when they come out of windmills as they went into them. And you have environmentalists that are upset by them and the big footprint that they take and that solar takes.

Nuclear, I'm a big supporter of nuclear. This is where we can actually produce energy that isn't polluting, that doesn't create greenhouse gases, that provides real jobs.

But you'll find people who are saying, "Oh, my God, that's really dangerous." Even though we have such a wonderfully solid track record here in this country.

So there are trade-offs with everything. I'm not worried about what people are saying. They don't like John Kasich, because fracking is dangerous. You've got to put structure around it. But they like their power, and they all have their iPhones, and they're all now buying their Teslas. They can afford them. They're certainly buying green cars and all four electric cars. And those are only as clean as the power used to produce electricity.

CAMEROTA: There you go. Christine Todd Whitman, thanks so much for coming in and explaining your position on John Kasich and so much more.

WHITMAN: Great pleasure. Good to see you.

CAMEROTA: Tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern, it's Donald Trump's turn. Trump and his wife, Melania, his daughters Ivanka and Tiffany, his sons Eric and Don Jr. will all take questions from New York voters in the next CNN Republican presidential town hall, tomorrow night. It's hosted by Anderson Cooper. And then tomorrow night, Texas Senator Ted Cruz and his wife, Heidi. Tune in tonight, 9 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. Let's turn now to the Democrats. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders sharpening their attacks ahead of Thursday's crucial CNN debate. They aren't blaming the system and calling the other person a terrible person, at least not yet. But hey are throwing haymakers nonetheless. Which blows are landing?

For that, let's go to CNN's Chris Frates, live in Rochester with more.

You have the line of the morning. I hope you're going to repeat it.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Good morning, Chris. I'll tell you, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are fighting like two cats in a bag, slamming each other on guns, Wall Street and their record. Hillary Clinton putting a new spin on an old dig. Saying a lot of guns from Sanders' home state of Vermont getting used in New York crimes. And questioning whether or not Bernie Sanders can handle the famously aggressive New York City press.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I have noticed that, under the bright spotlight and scrutiny here in New York, Senator Sanders has had trouble answering questions. He's had trouble answering questions about his core issues, mainly dealing with the banks. He's had trouble answering foreign policy questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: Now Sanders firing back, slamming Clinton for giving six- figure speeches to Wall Street and questioning her qualifications, including her vote for the Iraq War, a vote Hillary Clinton has since said is a mistake.

But she is leading here in New York by double digits and is again turning her attention to the Republicans, out with an ad slamming Donald Trump yesterday. And I'll tell you, Michaela, he's sounding -- she is sounding more and more like a general election candidate. [07:15:17] PEREIRA: All right, Chris, thanks so much for that. We'll

keep watching it with you.

Some other news now. More than 400 protesters arrested on the steps of the U.S. Capitol. The sit-in was organized by a coalition of more than 100 progressive groups called Democracy Spring. Demonstrators calling on Congress to get money out of politics by limiting big donors, restoring powers in the Voting Rights Act, and ending redistricting. The group plans four more protests next week.

CAMEROTA: Political tensions rising in Brazil as a congressional committee votes in favor of impeaching President Dilma Rousseff. She's accused of breaking budgetary laws, the decision coming after eight hours of a heated debate. If the whole lower house votes in favor of impeachment later this week, the measure moves to the Senate. If it does not get enough votes, it will be shelved.

CUOMO: It's an offer one restaurant chain is hoping the Washington, D.C., hamburglar cannot refuse. Police are looking for a man who broke into a Five Guys restaurant twice last month by following a delivery man inside. Instead of stealing money, he cooked himself some burgers, grabbed a bottle of water, and took off. The president of Five Guys's competitor, Way Back Burgers, is offering the thief a years' worth of free hamburgers...

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh.

CUOMO: ... if he turns himself in.

PEREIRA: Yes. Smells an opportunity to stick it to his competitor.

CAMEROTA: Because really, the guy was just hungry.

PEREIRA: You believe it's a victimless crime?

CAMEROTA: A victimless crime. He was hungry. He helped himself to a few burgers.

PEREIRA: What do you think, America?

CAMEROTA: Haven't you ever just wanted to break in and cook yourself up some burgers?

CUOMO: Says the felon.

PEREIRA: Honestly. Really?

All right. Winning New York's primary comes with a huge prize for Democrats, up to 247 delegates. But the state's primary is closed. That means you have to be a registered Democrat to vote. So who does that favor? Clinton or Sanders?

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) [07:21:13] CLINTON: I have noticed that under the bright spotlight and scrutiny here in New York, Senator Sanders has had trouble answering questions. He's had trouble answering questions about his core issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders trading barbs ahead of next Tuesday's big New York primary. The primary here, important to note, is closed. You've got to be a registered Democrat. And you can't register that day.

Will it make a difference? How about the tone? Bigger difference.

Let's discuss. Howard Wolfson, former New York City deputy mayor under Michael Bloomberg and the former communications director for Hillary Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign. Also with us, New York state senator James Sanders, a Bernie Sanders supporter.

All right. Let's discuss the state of play here. First, let's look at the system. Donald Trump has made it an issue saying Colorado, it's rigged, it's rigged, it's rigged. Everybody knew the rules. Same exists on the Democrat side in a different way. Let's put up the delegate numbers, shall we?

The difference between pledged and super delegates. Who are the super delegates? Friends of the party officials picked. The point that Bernie Sanders made matters, as well. It just makes it feel rigged. Why do you need these super delegates? Make the case for why you believe super delegates should not be?

JAMES SANDERS, NEW YORK STATE SENATOR: If we believe in democracy, shouldn't it be one person, one vote. Shouldn't it be whoever has the momentum to win and take it all the way? Shouldn't that person be the person who has, at the end of the day, the nomination?

CUOMO: Now, Hillary Clinton has a 200-plus delegate lead right now of pledged delegates. But if you look at back at 2008, which you remember very well.

J. SANDERS: I do.

CUOMO: It was neck and neck. Then Obama takes the lead in, like, May. Then Senator Obama. By the time Hillary Clinton decides to get out of the race, he has a 2-1 super delegate lead. And it winds up being, well, the party is going to decide this, not the people. Fair criticism?

HOWARD WOLFSON, FORMER NEW YORK CITY DEPUTY MAYOR: No. Because then- Senator Obama had a lead over then-Senator Clinton in earned delegates by about, I think, 100 to 150. So even without the super delegates, then-Senator Obama would have been the nominee.

And I think that's going to be case this time, as well. The lead is narrow. But because of the way the delegate system works in the Democratic Party, there are no winner-take-all states. It's nearly impossible for someone, once they fall behind, by say, a couple hundred delegates as Senator Sanders now is, to catch up.

CUOMO: Is that good?

WOLFSON: I don't know if it's good or bad, but it's the way the system works.

CUOMO: I know.

J. SANDERS: It's bad. It's bad for democracy. If we are going to get these disaffected voters into it, it's bad. And we need to do something about it.

CUOMO: You know what else is bad for democracy? Saying vote for me; the other guy stinks. That's going on on the right. We know that. What's going on on that party right now. This was -- you know, both candidates are saying let's talk ideas, let's talk ideas, saying, "You're wrong on the war in Iraq, and I wasn't." OK. We got it. What are we going to do now? What are we going to do now? That has been falling by.

And personal barbs, not you stink, you stink but to that effect is now on the rise. Is that what we need?

J. SANDERS: It's not what we need. We can argue where it started. But it's not what we need. And our party has always been -- our position has always been let us speak of the issues. And we want to speak of the issues. The larger issues. The issues that are important to the American people. Not simply whose e-mail and who did all of those things. We said that from the beginning, and we tried to maintain that.

New York is a tough place to do it, though.

CUOMO: Do you believe, does the campaign believe, that Hillary Clinton cannot be president?

J. SANDERS: Hillary Clinton, if chosen -- if chosen by the people, of course, she can be president. And a very worthy president. But is she the president that the people want and the people need? That's the argument we're making.

[07:25:12] WOLFSON: Just one more point about the super delegates.

CUOMO: Go ahead. You've had time to think. I saw the wheels turning. What do you have? I'll give you a second bite at the apple.

WOLFSON: Hillary Clinton will be the nominee without super delegates. She will be the nominee based on the earned delegates chosen in primaries and caucuses in the same way that Barack Obama was the nominee...

J. SANDERS: It's a little too early to make that case, sir. We have -- you haven't spoken of New York. You haven't spoken of Pennsylvania. Let the people decide.

WOLFSON: They are going to decide. And I don't think anybody is suggesting that Senator Sanders should get out of the race. But my prediction is based on my experience in presidential politics. And you have followed this closely, as well.

J. SANDERS: Sure.

WOLFSON: That at the end of the process, Hillary Clinton will be the nominee without the benefit of super delegates in the same way that Barack Obama was the nominee without the benefit of the super delegates in 2008.

CUOMO: Is the core concern of the campaign that Senator Sanders is not up to the job of being president? That's what we seem to be hearing now. That bite that we came in, from the secretary. The harsh lights of New York. All that's metaphor for you can't get it done when the light is on you. That's what it sounds like to me. Is it something else?

WOLFSON: You know, I think we're at the point of the campaign where both sides are feeling a little tired and a little testy. And you're seeing the exchanges back and forth. Some of them are about issues. Some of them are about fitness and readiness for office.

You had this rather silly exchange where last week Senator Sanders suggested that Secretary Clinton was not qualified, which was rather transparently ridiculous. I mean, there's probably no more qualified person to be president in America today than her.

So -- but both sides are beginning this kind of exchange. And you talked about Thursday night. I think you're going to see a lot of barbs going back and forth. I think both candidates are about done with the process,, although the process has a couple more mouths -- couple more months to play out.

CUOMO: Thursday we know that Senator Sanders, when the issue of fracking comes up, is going to use that as a big stick on Hillary Clinton, that she's in favor of it. Bernie Sanders is opposed to it for environmental and other reasons.

On the other side, we're expected to hear the secretary used the gun issue to her advantage. Do you think here in New York state, especially, that's going to be tough for Senator Sanders?

J. SANDERS: Well, no tougher than Senator -- Senator Sanders -- Gillibrand, I'm sorry, had it. She was an NRA member. And yet, when she became a state person, she took -- put that to the side and represented the views of the state. Senator Sanders represented the views of his particular state. He now will be a nationwide person and therefore will have to represent the views of the nation on that issue.

CUOMO: Gentlemen, appreciate it. Can't wait for Thursday. I'm sure you can't as well.

We are just two days away from what is going to be a real pivot point in this election. CNN presidential debate in Brooklyn. Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders face-to-face for the first time in more than five weeks. The last time before the crucial New York primary. When? Thursday, 9 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN -- Mick.

PEREIRA: All right. So Donald Trump is calling the delegate system rigged after losing out on Colorado's delegates. Did he make a mistake overlooking that state? We'll discuss that ahead.

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