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Trump Lashes Out at Rigged Primary System; Two Former Taliban Commanders Speak Out After Defecting From ISIS; Study: Aspirin A Day Keeps Doctor Away; Presidential Candidates Focus on New York. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 12, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:32:00]

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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm millions of votes ahead, which they don't even talk about. They never even mention it. They talk about delegates, and I'm hundreds of delegates ahead. But the system, folks, is rigged. It's a rigged, disgusting, dirty system. It's a dirty system.

(END VIDEO CLIP

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, that was Donald Trump lashing out at the rigged, disgusting, dirty primary system. The New York primary is one week away and polls show Donald Trump with a big lead over his GOP rivals. But they also show him losing to Hillary Clinton in a general election match-up if the election were today.

So let's discuss all of this with our CNN political commentator and former Reagan White House political director, Jeffrey Lord. He's a Trump supporter. And CNN's political commentator, Ana Navarro. Good morning to both of you.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Ali.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, is Donald Trump right that the primary system is rigged and dirty and disgusting?

LORD: Well, I don't really know what happened there in Colorado but, clearly, when you see, as I think we've probably all seen with this viral video of a Coloradoan burning his Republican registration -- clearly there was something afoot. What I think is going on here is Donald Trump is --

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean -- wait, wait, wait, hold on a second, Jeffrey. You mean something afoot, something untoward, something outside of the system that was dirty?

LORD: Clearly, clearly.

CAMEROTA: Like what?

LORD: Clearly, this particular Coloradoan felt that was the case. That his vote was not counted. That he was not allowed to have a voice in the determination of the Colorado delegation. I would say this. I think Donald Trump, through Paul Manafort, is getting a handle on all of this.

They had a victory -- I don't know if you've noticed in Michigan where they banded together, interestingly, with the Kasich people to keep the Cruz folks off the rules committee. In other words, you get one man and one woman on the rules committee from each state. In Michigan, a victory was won for Donald Trump and there is a Trump delegate now on the rules committee.

CAMEROTA: OK.

LORD: So, that's the work of Paul Manafort and I think this is now proceeding a pace as it should.

CAMEROTA: Ana, is something fishy happening in the system in Colorado or elsewhere that makes this dirty and rigged?

NAVARRO: No, this is our system. Live with it. Look, I come from Nicaragua. I fight a Communist revolution. I live in Miami. Ninety miles away there's another Communist revolution that has lasted 56 years. This is called democracy.

Every single state party gets to make its rules the way they want to. Some people have early primaries, some have them later. Some have caucuses. Some have the convention. Some have open primaries, some have closed primaries. It is all about knowing what the rules of that particular state are.

[07:35:00] Now listen, if you were one month pregnant when the Colorado rules happened last August, that baby would be born by now. He had eight long months to figure out how to do it and what to do. He just didn't put the resources into it. You need to know when to file. You need to meet the ballot deadlines. You need to meet the requirements, the numbers of signatures.

It is a quirky process. It is a complicated process. It is a legalistic process. But it is our process and it is called democracy. Live with it and stop being an infantile 5-year-old and saying every time that you don't win, the rules don't work. But when you do win, oh low and behold, then the rules really work.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, how about that revelation that seems to suggest that Donald Trump really doesn't know how the rules work, in that his children are going to be unable to vote for him in the New York primary because they didn't make the deadline?

Let me read to you what they said. His children put out a statement yesterday. "New York is one of the most onerous states in terms of timeframe to change party affiliation for a closed primary, and the deadline unfortunately passed in October of 2015." Jeffrey, does this not suggest that the Trump campaign didn't really have a handle on the rules?

LORD: No, I think all that means is that his children were too busy and didn't realize it. I mean, I don't think you can blame dad for that or dad's campaign. No, I think that's perfectly their business.

I really do believe here that things are changing on the ground here with the arrival of Paul Manafort. This is somebody who's been through this twice with President Ford and President Reagan. He knows exactly how to do this. He knows who these people are. He knows what their responsibilities are. He knows the deals to make.

I understand that Sen. Cruz's campaign is upset about what happened in Michigan, so I think he's having an effect and I think it's time to get on with it. The campaign has evolved. This is where we are and it's a good thing.

CAMEROTA: Of course it shows a deficient campaign. Listen, these children -- it's not like they don't have enough help to be able to remind them of a deadline. A campaign should have said OK, is everybody named Trump of legal age who lives in New York registered to vote by this deadline? Have the pets registered?

Look, Ivanka is to raise (ph), OK? I know she's busy. I love the woman's shoes. She's a classy lady. All these kids are busy as hell, but they also got a lot of people dealing with them. They've got a lot of assistants that can remind them. Nowadays, all you need is a little thing that pings on your iPad and says you've got to get this done by then.

Let me tell you, I don't know what would have happened if a Cuomo had not registered on time, but it would not have been good in that household.

CAMEROTA: I think he concurs with that. I see --

NAVARRO: What would have happened, Chris Cuomo? What would have happened if a Cuomo had not registered by the deadline?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: I don't want to think about it. It makes my hair curl.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, last, the irony of all of this is that the very system that Donald Trump rails against as being rigged seems to have worked and continues to be working in his favor. He has, thus far, gotten 37 percent of the popular vote -- the raw vote in this country. Yet, he has 43 percent of the delegate count. So he may not like how the delegate system works but it appears to be working for him.

LORD: Yes, isn't that cool? I mean, I think it's great. And, again, campaigns evolve. When you get to this stage of a campaign this is where you have to be and it is entirely possible that they were a little behind the eight ball here but they are no longer, and they're making up lost ground and I think they're going to do just fine.

CAMEROTA: All right, we shall see. Jeffrey Lord, Ana Navarro, thank you very much for all of that. Great to see both of you.

NAVARRO: Thank you.

LORD: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: What's your take on this system? Is it rigged? You can tweet us @NewDay or you can post your comment on facebook.com/NewDay. We will read those shortly -- Chris.

CUOMO: The resounding answer so far on my feed is yes.

Coming up, a CNN exclusive. Two former Taliban commanders speak out after defecting from ISIS. Why did they leave, next.

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[07:43:00] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: ISIS is expanding across Afghanistan, gaining support from Taliban fighters and children disillusioned after years of war. But, two lifelong Taliban fighters confessed to CNN the group's brutality is too much for even them. They've not joined the fight against ISIS.

Nick Paton Walsh is live in Kabul with that exclusive and fascinating interview -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ISIS tried hard since early last year to get roots in eastern Afghanistan, but frankly their brutality, some say, exported from across the border in Pakistan, appealed initially to some Taliban. They've been fighting amongst themselves and some wanted to get the upper hand, but as we saw here their savagery at the end of the day actually revolted many of those insurgents and they've turned against them.

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WALSH: Looking for ISIS FM in Afghanistan's east ISIS's radio broadcast of hate was bombed off of air recently by the U.S. But here, it's been coming back in the past week. It was there three days ago and it's gone again, says one man. They were talking nonsense says another. They were asking people to pledge allegiance and march on Kabul, he answers. This is one broadcast they recorded earlier.

ISIS is trying to put down roots here but every day more Afghans want to tear them up, and that starts here with Arabistan and Zaitoun. Two months ago we wouldn't have been sat like this. Then there were commanders in ISIS.

ZAITOUN, FORMER ISIS COMMANDER (through translator): They just like beheadings. Think they are good to do.

[07:45:00] WALSH: ISIS, they say, came from Pakistan, not Iraq, and promised guns and money to their struggling group of Taliban. Their agenda? Black flags, killing and looting, which they did go along with at first.

ARABISTAN, FORMER ISIS COMMANDER (through translator): They knew who were rich to take their money. The poor, they would arm to fight for them or kill them.

WALSH: It went south fast and they both remember the moment when.

ZAITOUN, FORMER ISIS COMMANDER (through translator): I remember when they beheaded seven people in the bazaar, including government workers and Pakistani Taliban. I saw the long strip of wood they did it on covered in blood. They just threw the bodies away and buried. It was very un-Islamic.

ARABISTAN, FORMER ISIS COMMANDER (through translator): My worst memory was if you were killed fighting for them they wouldn't hand your wife and children to your relative, but put them in a camp.

WALSH: ISIS recruit children here. Their own videos show another reason the two men worked with Afghan intelligence to set up our interview to get other locals to join an uprising program against ISIS. But they say they've lacked government protection and money, and that's put potential defectors off. The fight is now just left to American drones, they say.

ARABISTAN, FORMER ISIS COMMANDER (through translator): Drones are doing a good job killing ISIS. They target them as they leave their houses.

ZAITOUN, FORMER ISIS COMMANDER (through translator): The government hasn't made any progress in those areas. It's only the bombing that's effective.

WALSH: You were in the Taliban, then you were in ISIS, and now American drones are bombing your own village but you're pleased about it because they're killing ISIS. Is that not a strange feeling for you?

ZAITOUN, FORMER ISIS COMMANDER (through translator): It makes up happy. We want them wiped out.

WALSH: The killers, themselves, who know what they're talking. Arabistan holds up his cloak. Holes from an American helicopter attack not long ago when he was Taliban. ISIS has shattered ordinary lives, too. Across town in a luxury village built for rich people who never came are hundreds of families who fled ISIS.

Afghanistan, like many nations inflicted by ISIS, basically has to battle an idea -- a kind of virus that appeals to minds warped after decades of war. Those are the Taliban is radical enough. An idea that no matter how hard you battle or bomb it, it's very difficult to completely extinguish.

Many of their homes are still occupied and much damage is irreversible. They killed this man's brother and then shot in the waist as he helped his family escape. He's left unable to provide for them and ISIS still live in their home.

ISIS savagery was first glimpsed in Afghanistan in this video. They lined up opponents and then detonated a bomb below them. The man who speaks is survived by his nephew, Rustam. RUSTAM, DISPLACED BY ISIS (through translator): My brother called our father to tell him the death was on Facebook. We couldn't bury him, as we didn't have a body. His pieces are probably still lying where he was blown up.

WALSH: Decades of trauma here, yet somehow it gets worse.

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WALSH: You know, one positive note for Afghanistan. They are lacking, frankly, ISIS in sympathy and ground here. They're on their back foot, but unfortunately the fight against them has distracted U.S. and Afghan firepower from the more important fight against Taliban, who are certainly resurging.

But, Chris, just think about this. That man there targeted by U.S. firepower in the past when he was in the Taliban now actually hoping that U.S. drones will attack his own village, his own home, where ISIS are currently living. That's how badly they want them out. A potentially positive moment for Afghanistan, Chris.

CUOMO: The only given is that violence is a part of everyday life. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you -- you and your team for taking the risk to show us what the reality is on the ground. Stay safe, my friend.

Today's NEW DAY, New You. Popping an aspirin a day may help keep the doctor away. Who says that? A new study by the U.S. Preventive Task Force. Researchers found folks between the ages of 50 and 59 who are at high risk for heart disease and low risk of bleeding may benefit most from a daily low-dose aspirin regime.

They said it could reduce the risk for heart attacks, strokes, even colon cancer. But now, there's been a lot of back and forth on the benefits of daily aspirin use. As always, you've got to check with your doctor before you try any of these things -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right. Well, the Republican race looks like it's headed for a contested convention. Donald Trump accusing Ted Cruz of buying delegates, not that he's provided any proof. But let's look at the do's and don'ts of courting the delegates. What are you allowed to do? The answers will surprise you.

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[07:54:00] CUOMO: All right, it's time for us to get inside this battle that we keep teeing up here. What's going to happen beyond next week's New York primary? What's going to happen with this ultimate delegate cull and what happens if it doesn't go to 1,237 before we get to convention?

CAMEROTA: What does happen and how does it all play out in a contested GOP convention?

Here to walk us through all the delegate battle and what's allowed and what isn't allowed is CNN political director, David Chalian. David, great to have you here with us because -- DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: -- you know what? It's a little confusing.

CHALIAN: It is.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the convention. Make heads or tails out of what's going to happen.

CHALIAN: Well, listen, the key numbers you want to see here is this 95 and this 57, right? Because an overwhelming majority of the delegates are bound on the first vote of the convention to have the primary and caucus results turned out. This is Donald Trump's best moment. He's winning those primaries and caucuses in big numbers -- many of them -- and those delegates are bound to him.

CUOMO: What a purist form of Republican democracy, not GOP. I'm saying where people voted for you to be the delegate, you got picked to represent their votes, not to just change based on anything else.

CHALIAN: Right. The problem becomes if you don't hit 1,237 -- 50 percent, plus one -- on that first vote, it goes to a second vote, and there only 57 percent of delegates are unbound. So yet, that is a majority that become unbound. That's where the scramble begins. That is what Ted Cruz and John Kasich are fighting for every day now.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's talk about that. Let me pull up the map. OK, you ready for the map?

CUOMO: Yes.

CAMEROTA: OK, because one place that their fight -- hey, that's not the map.

CUOMO: There you go.

CAMEROTA: No, it's not.

CUOMO: Look what you're doing, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: I know. I'm not touching it.

CUOMO: See what happens? See what happens?

CAMEROTA: All right, can I show you what's going on in North Carolina?

CUOMO: Please.

CHALIAN: South Carolina, yes.

CAMEROTA: Oh, all right, South Carolina. Let's do that one. So, Trump has won the lion's share, as you can see, of all the different districts, OK? But, something sneaky is going on where you can still court delegates away from him.

CHALIAN: Now, you say sneaky --

CAMEROTA: I do.

CHALIAN: -- and Donald Trump would say sneaky. Ted Cruz would say these are how the rules are set up, so it's not potentially sneaky. But, yes, these are the results from the primary back when we were all in South Carolina covering that primary. Donald Trump won nearly every county in the state. He won every delegate in the state that night. It was a huge victory.

But now, during the process of actually assigning the human beings that are going to be the delegates on the convention floor, they do that through local county and state convention processes. And Ted Cruz, this past weekend in South Carolina, was able to make some headway and identify some delegates that will be loyal to him in successive ballots, right?

CUOMO: Once you become unbound --

CHALIAN: Exactly.

CUOMO: How many rounds are they bound for in South Carolina?

CHALIAN: I believe just one.

CUOMO: So just one, all right. You want to use the word sneaky --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: -- and Chalian won't fight you as much? Let's go to Colorado, all right? Colorado, you can use sneaky more. Why? Look, the state party has the right, as it does in every state, to make its own rules. But these rules are unusually divorcing the system from the regular vote of a primary system. Tell us how.

CHALIAN: That's true, Chris. I've got to tell you, I went to a briefing at the RNC last fall -- last October -- and they highlighted Colorado as they were trying to walk us through this whole process. And they said Colorado is a really different animal. There's no primary or caucus that deals with presidential preference, and so you don't have to really worry about Colorado. But, indeed, we do.

And you're right, it is a different process, so it is purely based on these state dimension -- these local gatherings of activists where they get assigned to become delegates --

CUOMO: So it's all insiders?

CHALIAN: -- but it's not based at all on any kind of caucus or primary results at all, and that's why Ted Cruz went in there this weekend and he was organized and he won all 34 delegates available.

CAMEROTA: Aha, this is what I want to get to. What you are allowed to promise delegates and what you're not allowed to because the rules are fuzzy. You can let them have rides on private jets. Hmm, Donald Trump has one of those. You can wine and dine them. You can give them expensive swag bags. Who doesn't like those? You can also give them political deals and platforms.

Then, what you can't give them -- supposedly, you can't have them take money directly. That makes sense. They can't sell their votes, but it does look --

CUOMO: How are those different? How are the first two -- how are those two different?

CAMEROTA: Not only how are these different, how's this different from all these promises you can make them and all of the perks?

CHALIAN: As you can see here, the rules are really lax. These are rules going back -- they were created 40 years ago after the 1976 fight between Reagan and Ford. There are no rules, actually, so the FEC is looking into now how do we start governing this? I think the campaigns are going to have strong arguments to sort of -- they're able to do anything.

One of the things that is also not allowed is no corporations, no labor unions are allowed to actually give money to delegates, so those groups are out. But individual donors can. And remember, back then Super PAC's weren't invented.

All these campaigns have Super PACs now. They've been paying for their advertising. There's nothing that says that they're not going to be able to pay some way for the delegates to -- I don't know -- spend a weekend in Mar-a-Lago or something the weekend before the convention.

CAMEROTA: Right.

CHALIAN: The wooing is going to be real and there are very few rules governing the road. So, I would imagine that there's going to be pretty good swag bags in delegate hands.

CAMEROTA: You've got to get your hands on one of those.

CHALIAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: All right, David, thank you. That is really helpful.

CHALIAN: Sure.

CAMEROTA: Thanks for walking us through all that.

CHALIAN: Sure.

CUOMO: Yes, that was very informative.

CAMEROTA: Indeed.

CUOMO: All right, there's a lot of news this morning including John Kasich's CNN Town Hall. What did his kids say about him? Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to be anybody's vice president.

TRUMP: It's a rigged, disgusting, dirty system.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When people vote against him they're stealing the election. It's a really odd notion.

KASICH: We hear so much negativity. We're losers, we're terrible. That's not our country.

TRUMP: Should we do the pledge?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have noticed that under the bright spotlight, Sen. Sanders has had trouble answering questions.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Secretary Clinton and I have some very strong differences of opinion.

CLINTON: New York values are not just good for New York, they're good for America.

SANDERS: I will be damned if we're going to see the American dream die.

PEREIRA: There are new developments in the shooting death of former NFL star Will Smith.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some guy looked pretty frantic. It looked like things were escalating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a real tragedy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.