Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Trump Claims RNC Doesn't Want Him to Win; Paul Ryan Nixes Presidential Bid; Sanders Attacks Clinton's Credibility Gap. Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired April 13, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that it's stacked against me by the establishment.

[05:59:05] SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald is a very sore loser.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It could drive America into a ditch and not make us great again.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: If you want to be the president, you should actually run for it.

CRUZ: Donald is panicked.

TRUMP: Our Republican system is rigged.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If talking about equal pay is playing the gender card, then deal me in.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You cannot take millions of dollars and then claim to be an agent of change.

CLINTON: Our records are very clear.

SANDERS: I have challenged Secretary Clinton to say whether she is prepared.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New developments in the shooting death of former Saints player Will Smith.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A fully loaded 9 millimeter handgun was found inside Smith's SUV.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may have gotten out with a big mouth, but he did not get out with a gun.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Enough discussing sinus remedies. Good morning to you. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, April 13, 6 a.m. in the East.

Donald Trump has a new obsession: Losing. In the CNN town hall last night, Trump kept bashing the GOP for stacking the deck against him, accusing the Republican Party of conspiring to stop him from becoming the nominee. The party's chairman firing back, not mincing words. The question is: why would Trump alienate the party he needs to be the nominee now?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We'll explore that.

And over on the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders battling it out for New York. The rivals set to face off in a CNN debate in Brooklyn tomorrow night ahead of the big primary.

So we have this election covered the way only CNN can. Let's begin with White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski, who joins us right here.

Hi, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Yes, at this town hall last night, we had Donald Trump repeatedly kicking things off by saying that things are stacked against him. And we heard him utter the words "make America great again" and so presidential, as well.

That said, though, I mean, this was a Donald Trump that was calm, collected, not yelling, not using any hair-raising words. And we heard his children refer to him as selfless.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You don't think the RNC wants you to get the nomination?

TRUMP: No, I don't think so.

COOPER: Republican front-runner Donald Trump calling out the Republican National Committee during CNN's town hall Tuesday night, accusing them of conspiring to keep him from clinching the GOP nomination by denying him delegates.

TRUMP: I won Louisiana. I won it easily.

COOPER: Won the popular vote. You got more delegates.

TRUMP: The popular vote. Because of all the shenanigans that goes on. And...

COOPER: You call them shenanigans. They are the rules. Didn't you know the rules?

TRUMP: I know the rules very well. But I know that it's stacked against me by the establishment. KOSINSKI (voice-over): Trump alleging the Republican Party is, quote,

"100 percent controlled by the RNC" and that rules were changed to stop him.

TRUMP: They changed the rules a number of months ago. The people...

COOPER: About eight months ago.

TRUMP: Well, that's not very long ago.

COOPER: But you had a lot of time to prepare and get organization.

TRUMP: You know why they changed the rules? Because they saw how I was doing, and they didn't like it.

KOSINSKI: The Trump family later joining the candidate on stage. Trump's daughters taking on critics who say their father is disrespectful to women.

IVANKA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: He always taught me that there wasn't anything that I couldn't do. And I don't think that's the message a father would relay to a daughter who he didn't believe had the potential to accomplish exactly what her brothers could.

KOSINSKI: Both pointing to their upbringing as evidence of an equal opportunity father and business mogul.

TIFFANY TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: My father, since I've been a little girl, has always inspired me and had so much faith in me to just be the best person I can be, the best woman I can be.

KOSINSKI: Trump admitting that, when it comes to debates, his family sometimes wishes he would lighten up.

D. TRUMP SR.: They're always saying, "Be nicer on the debates."

I said, "Wait a minute. They're coming at me from all these different angles. How can I be nice?"

But Melania in particular would say be nicer in the debates. I said, "I can't do that. I have to win first."

KOSINSKI: Donald Trump Jr. agrees.

DONALD TRUMP JR., SON OF DONALD TRUMP: Everyone talks about that at tone, but there also comes a time where you actually have to put the hammer down, right? There comes a time where, you know, being nice, trying to do all this stuff. When people are laughing in your face, you have to actually fight back. And that's what's so important about what he does.

KOSINSKI: Trump's wife Melania pushing her husband to act more presidential.

COOPER: How would you like him to be different?

MELANIA TRUMP, WIFE OF DONALD TRUMP: Just to use nice language sometimes.

COOPER: Better language?

M. TRUMP: Better language.

COOPER: I know you were...

M. TRUMP: Not all the time.

COOPER: You were upset...

M. TRUMP: Sometimes I agree.

COOPER: Somebody yelled out something at one of his rallies...

M. TRUMP: And he repeated it.

COOPER: You were upset with that?

M. TRUMP: Yes, and I was thinking just don't repeat it. Because next day the press all that they will talk about is the word, inappropriate word. And that was correct.

KOSINSKI: And on changing his tone, Trump says he can switch it up any time.

D. TRUMP SR.: It's easy to do it. I mean, it's easier to do it than the way I behave right now. But...

COOPER: So why not?

D. TRUMP SR.: Because I have two -- I have two more people I have to take out.

KOSINSKI: But when it comes to the retweeting that sparked Trump's recent war of wives last month with Ted Cruz, Trump says, yes, it's the retweets that usually get him in hot water; and that it's all his own doing.

D. TRUMP SR.: During the evenings, after 7 p.m. or so, I will always do it by myself.

COOPER: Do you ever want to say to him, put the mobile device down? Like, it's 2 a.m., and you're still tweeting.

M. TRUMP: If he would only listen. I did many times. And I just say, OK, do whatever you want. He's an adult. He knows the consequences.

KOSINSKI: But it's the special bond they say they all have with their father that trumps it all.

ERIC TRUMP, SON OF DONALD TRUMP: He's just always had so much love for us and his whole family. He's an amazing guy. One of my best friends in the entire world. Maybe my best friend in the entire world. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: I think one burning question many people had was is Trump's family mortified ever by some of those tweets, by some of the things that he said? And you hear the -- they pretty much laughed it off. You heard Melania say that she's given up at this point trying to change things. His son said, "Look, this is what makes Donald Trump, Donald Trump. He doesn't hold back. He's a fighter. He puts it all out there."

[06:05:10] And they describe that as refreshing compared to some of the other more studied responses to things.

But as to a response for his accusations that the RNC is stacking things against him, the RNC's Reince Priebus tweeted, "Nomination process known for a year and beyond. It's the responsibility of the campaigns to understand it. Complaints now?" -- question mark -- "Give us all a break."

CAMEROTA: There you go. Michelle, thanks so much for giving us all of that background. They don't seem mortified. They don't seem to like all the tweeting always.

KOSINSKI: I don't know. I think they're all for it.

CAMEROTA: All right. Maybe that's the new -- maybe that's their new line. But at times...

CUOMO: The new mortification is acceptance.

CAMEROTA: That's it. Thanks for that.

PEREIRA: All right. In the meantime, House Speaker Paul Ryan trying to end speculation that he has White House ambitions. He says he doesn't want, nor will he accept the GOP nomination if he's pushed forward during a contested convention.

But do his actions leave any wiggle room? Senior political reporter Manu Raju live in Washington with more on that -- Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

Now, Paul Ryan was forced to make this announcement because the chatter surrounding the possibility that delegates at a deadlocked Republican convention could choose him as the nominee had started undermine his two main jobs this year. His one job: raising money for House Republicans and keeping the House majority; and creating a policy agenda that is distinctive from what we're seeing on the presidential race.

His other job, as chairman of the convention, with the role of ironing out disputes between heated campaigns. And yesterday he made clear there is absolutely no circumstance in which he'd be the nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RYAN: If no candidate has a majority on the first ballot, I believe that you should only choose from a person who has actually participated in the primary. Count me out. I simply believe that, if you want to be the nominee for our party to be the president, you should actually run for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, the GOP convention that Ryan is chairing could certainly be a messy one. Already, a number of Republicans are telling me they won't intend, including senators in tough reelections, and even Jeb Bush.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: But Ryan wants delegates to write a rule saying only people who have run for president can be the nominee. So we'll see if they listen to him and do just that -- Chris and Alisyn.

CUOMO: All right, Manu Raju, thank you very much for the reporting.

A lot to discuss. Let's get to the gurus: CNN political analyst David Gregory; CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic" Ron Brownstein; and Washington bureau chief at "The Daily Beast" Jackie Kucinich.

As the brains in the middle, Jackie, let me start with you. Why would be -- what would be the actual merits of the allegation of Donald Trump? We'll get to why he's saying it, whether it's good or bad. But "they changed the rules, and they did it because they didn't like how I was doing."

What rules could he point to that were changed that lead to that suggestion.

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": There weren't any rules changed.

CUOMO: None? Not one rule?

KUCINICH: Not for the last year or so.

CUOMO: He said eight months ago they changed them.

KUCINICH: Well, OK, fine, last year they changed the rules. But without Donald Trump in mind. No one could have predicted -- I've probably predicted wronglymany times that this is where -- this is where we would be in April of 2016.

So the idea that they changed the rules, somehow predicting that Donald Trump would be in this position, is a little far-fetched, frankly. And, you know, he's upset. This is a very complicated process. It differs state by state. I can see where there's confusion. But the idea that there was some kind of malfeasance going on, it's kind of -- it's not true. CAMEROTA: It's funny that he's upset. He's winning. He's winning in

the polls. He's winning in the delegates. I mean, Colorado notwithstanding in New York, he's running away with it at the moment. So why is he so upset?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This is preemptive rationalization. I mean, you kind of alluded to it before. It's almost as if he is certainly laying the groundwork for a case, if he is denied the nomination, that it was stolen from him.

But you know, the goal is not to be denied the nomination. The goal is to win the nomination. And if you fall short of the pledged delegates before the convention, you're going to need some of the people that you're accusing of participating in a rigged system to be for you. So it is a little mystifying. I mean, it certainly fits with the "us against them" way of framing every issue and it, in that way, may energize his supporters.

But ultimately, you have to say it looks counterproductive if, in fact, he is going to need to persuade some uncommitted delegates to go in.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: This is like a Geico commercial. If this is Donald Trump, this is what you do. I mean, he is playing to type here, playing to type in this way.

He is railing against the system that he is running against. If he is in a contest like this, where it looks like he may not get it on the first ballot of the convention, why not run hard against the rules, against the party, and make, by the way, Ted Cruz look like the ultimate insider in this process? And Trump doubles down on what makes him outside.

So I think there is some method here to what he's doing.

Yes, was he behind on a lot of these rules? And he's also finally belatedly putting in place a team, a very establishment insider team to be able to negotiate if he falls short of 1,237, to win on the first ballot.

[06:10:12] So he is winning. He is still in a very good position to get very close to what he needs. This could still be game over by the first ballot.

CUOMO: And yet, this does seem to be the most crucial moment for Trump. He has created a combination of factors now that could either help him or hurt him.

I've been talking to guys who do a lot of business with him. They want him to win. They like him. They're in his ear. They say, "This was our fear all along. He never had the organization behind him. He's the big sell." And when his businesses have gotten in trouble, it's when he was actually running them. Because he didn't have the infrastructure around to get it done. Is that what's being revealed right now? KUCINICH: Absolutely. He's not a details guy. And we've definitely established this. At the very beginning of this process, the open question was can Donald Trump even get these voters that apparently love him out to the polls? Now, he definitely has had some success there.

However, going forward, this just gets more complicated. This is chess; it's not checkers. And the fact that he has a bunch of guys who didn't know what they were doing, essentially, in states; he was pulling resources from states like Florida and other states instead of having people there to lay the infrastructure to make sure they get the delegates that they need. It just shows -- lays bare the fact that they just didn't know the game that they were playing.

GREGORY: He did not want to run a traditional campaign. He wasn't interested in the machinery of politics or of a campaign. This is the King Kong of politics. That's who he wanted to be. Get up on the Empire State Building and scream, "I'm here, and I'm going to win." And he's done it with Twitter, and he's done it on the media generally. And it has worked for him.

Then all of a sudden, he stumbled and realized, you know, "I've got to put some pieces in place to run in a more traditional campaign."

BROWNSTEIN: In a way, though, none of this would have mattered if he would have followed the trajectory of previous frontrunners. The previous frontrunners, by the time they reached this point in the campaign, were ascending toward 50 percent of the vote consistently, as I said before.

John McCain hit 50 percent or more in 11 straight contests at this point in 2008 to drive Mike Huckabee from the race. Trump is -- has the biggest piece of the party, but he's stuck somewhere around 35 to 40 percent. Yes, he'll do better in New York. But he has not reached 50 percent in any state to this point. And if he had grown to that level, they would have been in a much better position to survive these organizational...

GREGORY: And weren't the rules, when they were changed, meant to help a front-runner?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

GREGORY: To consolidate earlier?

BROWNSTEIN: He pointed out about Florida. You know, about how Florida became winner-takes-all.

KUCINICH: Absolutely.

BROWNSTEIN: But he has not been -- I mean, this is really -- this would not be happening if Trump was not stuck as a plurality front- runner instead of a majority front-runner.

CAMEROTA: Jackie, let's talk about his family on stage last night. It was a different style than what we saw with Kasich's daughters, who said, like, "Our dad is embarrassing. He can't dance. He tells corny jokes."

KUCINICH: Teenagers.

CAMEROTA: Teenagers, right, of course. You know, we saw his children, who seemed to be, I think, sticking on message more. He's the best father. He was the best role model. He would make the best president. What does this do for voters? Does that sway anybody?

KUCINICH: I mean, it did show that he has a strong family behind him. It did humanize him. There were some fun moments, particularly between him and Ivanka. She has been his best surrogate over and over and over. Melania, as well. Because they do seem to have a special relationship. And you could really see that.

But there were some campy moments. "What do you guys do for fun?" "Work."

CAMEROTA: Woo-hoo.

BROWNSTEIN: There was a moment at one of the town halls -- it may have been in Ohio -- where a woman got up and said to Donald Trump, "Why can't you be more like your kids?" We're all -- they just seem to be great. And again, last night, I mean, he does seem to -- the family does seem to have a genuine bond of affection, and that speaks...

CUOMO: There's only one risk that comes out. I'm never a fan of exposing families, having been brought up that way, I'm not a fan of exposing families to own what the candidate does.

CAMEROTA: Sure.

CUOMO: But all of this suggestion that this isn't who he is, this isn't who he is, this isn't who he is. I don't know what that means to the voter who's not already in his camp. Saying, "So let me get this right. The worst of him is an act that he's putting on?"

GREGORY: What did he say? He was asked about tone, and he said, "Look, I could have a nicer tone. I could be nicer. I could be" -- a little bit of the arms. "I could be more presidential, but I've got two guys to take out."

So it's almost like this is an act, you know, to win. I think that doesn't ring as true.

CAMEROTA: All right. Panel, stick around. We've got a lot more to talk about.

Also, tonight we should tell you, Senator Ted Cruz and his wife Heidi will be talking to Anderson Cooper. And they will take questions from New York voters in a CNN town hall. So you can join us at 9 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. To the Democrats now. Bernie Sanders sharpening his attacks on Hillary Clinton ahead of tomorrow night's high stakes in a debate in Brooklyn. The rhetoric getting nastier as we're now six days from the New York primary.

Chris Frates is here with more this morning. Hey, Chris.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Michaela.

So the Bernie Sanders campaign continues to hammer away at Hillary Clinton, this time taking a swipe at her credibility after one of her attacks on Sanders was rated mostly false by a fact checker.

[06:15:07] This latest swipe comes after Sanders has spent days questioning Clinton's judgment and qualifications. Just yesterday, Sanders criticized Clinton's vote for the Iraq war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Secretary Clinton was then a United States senator from your state, from New York state. She heard -- she listened to the same arguments from Bush and Cheney. Her judgment was faulty. She voted for that disastrous war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: Now, what's interesting is Clinton's camp tells me they're not concerned that the attack will not hurt her with Democrats. They're worried that Sanders is manufacturing bullets that Republicans will fire at her in the fall. They know Republicans will likely attack her character, but now they can do it using Sanders's own words.

It's another sign that Clinton, who leads Sanders by double digits in some New York polls, is focusing on the general election. She left the campaign trail yesterday to fundraise in Florida as increasing attacking Republicans. She returns to New York today with a fresh endorsement from "The New York Daily News."

Sanders, meanwhile, will announce a new endorsement later this morning and hold what is expected to be a massive rally in New York tonight -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. We are just hours away, Chris, from Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders facing off in a CNN Democratic presidential debate in Brooklyn. It is the first time that they've shared the debate stage in something like five weeks, the last time before the New York primary. That's tomorrow night, 9 Eastern right here on CNN -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Michaela. Paul Ryan says, "Count me out," the House speaker insisting he wants no part of the Republican nomination, even if there is a contested convention. But is anyone buying it? We'll ask the panel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:20:51] RYAN: Let me be clear: I do not want, nor will I accept the nomination for our party. I believe that you should only choose from a person who has actually participated in the primary. Count me out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right. That was House Speaker Paul Ryan, hoping that his words would end all the speculation about him being drafted at a contested convention as the Republican nominee. So how convincing were those words?

Let's bring back our panel: Ron Brownstein, Jackie Kucinich and David Gregory.

But David, to my untrained ears, it sounded like he was rejecting it. You understand Washington's double speak.

GREGORY: Really, he does not want the presidency.

CAMEROTA: It sounded like he does not want it.

GREGORY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: What did you hear? Was there more than met the ear?

GREGORY: No. I don't think so. I think that was, "No and I mean it."

And I think -- you know, Paul Ryan has told people that all along that this is not his year. That was only validated by, you know, the kind of tone of his campaign that we've seen on the Republican side. Look, this not his year. First of all, if he were to come in at any time, such an establishment figure, I think he understands he'd have a hard time winning. Ever more so now. Can you imagine Paul Ryan being dragged in at the last second?

He's 45 years old. It really does -- we were talking about this. He has young kids. Quite mindful of that. Does not want to give up that time. At 45, he has an opportunity to really build, you know, the party, build himself and run later.

He's also in a position, as the speaker of the House, to have a huge role in terms of domestic policy. And I think he wants to try to frame an agenda for House Republicans, even if it's at odds with a nominee who might be Trump.

BROWNSTEIN: He is at odds with Donald Trump on every major issue, just about. I mean, he's pro-immigration, pro-trade. His signature arrival in Washington were his plans to cut entitlements, particularly divert Medicare into a premium support or voucher system. All of which Trump is on the opposite side of.

I think David's right. I mean, who wants to be the person dragged -- if there is a stalemate at the convention, and they're trying to move beyond Trump or Cruz or Kasich, who wants to be that person?

On the other hand, this is probably a pretty good day for Democrats. Because I think a lot of Democrats worry the most about a Paul Ryan not kind of battered by this campaign, being brought in maybe with Nikki Haley as his vice president. That would have seemed a pretty strong ticket. That now does seem to be off the table.

GREGORY: Exactly.

CUOMO: We're talking about July. And in this election, that's like 17 years away, given how rapid the cycle has been with the ups and downs. But who would you rather it be than Paul Ryan? Forget about the fact that everybody's saying, "Oh, you won't consider being our president," when everybody else is a shoulder shrug, like, "I guess this guy's going to be our president."

Plus, no matter who it is, whether it's Cruz or Trump, Jackie, he's the one who's going to be the standard bearer for the party. Cruz isn't going to be able to have a big part of the GOP in Congress, wanting to rally to his side. Trump won't. Who would you rather be?

KUCINICH: I mean, but we have to remember Paul Ryan is not going back to his job eating grapes and being fanned. He has a very tough job...

CUOMO: Sure.

KUCINICH: ... as speaker of the House. He's supposed to have a budget passed in, what, two days? And that's not going to happen, because there's so much resistance within his party. So while he is -- he has cast himself as the uniter, he has yet to do that, frankly, in the House. And I'm not saying it's an easy job. It is definitely the definition...

CUOMO: You can't do it when you're in a party cataclysm like this.

KUCINICH: Of course. It's sort of he has to get a team. Right? He has to, maybe, recruit some of his people to be -- to be in the Republican Party.

But you're absolutely right. He is, in a lot of ways, in a better position than Donald Trump, than Ted Cruz, who are going to have a very divided convention, frankly, you know, the convention floor as they stand up on that podium.

CAMEROTA: What happens if they, one of them, as it looks like will happen, does become the nominee? I mean, Paul Ryan is running a sort of parallel policy campaign against Donald Trump. Then what happens if he's -- if Trump is the nominee?

GREGORY: Well, you know. There becomes something of a fight. There has to be some melding in terms of policy principles, because the White House will drive that. but, you know, he is something of an independent power base. He does not have to carry the water for the administration all the time on the issues that he disagrees with. He's got his own power base that he can or may not be able to deliver. And he'll be able to say that to the White House, whoever the president is.

CUOMO: The person who's boosting Paul Ryan the most, by implication, is Trump.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CUOMO: Because this -- "they rigged it against me. They won't be -- lose. They're trying" -- That's the only way you factor in Paul Ryan. Because otherwise, the system going the way it would right now, Trump probably winds up being the nominee. So that takes us to the convention. And now there's this other suggestion: "I'm not going."

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, right.

[06:25:12] CUOMO: What do you make of this? These people saying, "I'm not going." Jeb Bush, not going. So what? But these other people who are players. "I'm not going," what does that mean?

BROWNSTEIN: It reflects the larger challenge for Republicans in this election. You have seven Republican Senate seats that are being defended this year in states that voted both times for President Obama.

And what we have seen in modern politics, it has become harder and harder for parties to win Senate seats in states that usually vote the other way for president. Republicans have so many of these, in part because the last time they ran was 2010, an off-year electorate that was older, whiter, and very tilted toward the Republicans.

So you've got Republicans who are trying to distance themselves preemptively, like Kelly Ayotte in New Hampshire from the ticket. Certainly Illinois is another state. Pennsylvania is not going to be easy. But Pat Toomey was constant around (UNINTELLIGIBLE). All of those could be very tough if the Republican at the top of the ticket is weak.

But what I would say is you can run, but you can't hide. Whether you've raised a president for candidate or not, you are now linked to them. Over 85 percent of the people usually in these states vote the same way for Senate as they do for president in a contested race. And that is a reality. All of those candidates, based, whether they're in Cleveland or on the beach in July.

KUCINICH: All politics is local. Right? And...

GREGORY: Not so much anymore.

KUCINICH: Not so much anymore, and especially when you have your party -- no one likes their family to be seen fighting. And this is going to happen on live TV, whether they like it or not. And so not having someone like Kelly on the floor sort of going like this is probably good for her.

GREGORY: Remember, you have to be tied into the party. If, you know, you're Rob Portman out in Ohio, you've got to tie into the party and to the party itself. Trump in Ohio, for example, is a weak, you know, candidate. If he's at 45 percent, it becomes very difficult for the incumbent to win if the top of the ticket is 45 percent. You have to rely on an unprecedented number of tickets. It is very hard to pull off.

CAMEROTA: Going to be a fascinating convention whatever happens. Panel, thank you. Great to see you guys.

Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Alisyn, we have dramatic events in the shooting death of NFL star Will Smith. Investigators now say they found a loaded handgun in the former NFL star's car. And the man accused of killing him insists that it was Smith that was the aggressor. We'll have a live report next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)