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Trump: GOP Delegate Selection Process Rigged Against Me; Musicians Uniting Against Anti-LGBT Legislation; Interview with Chely Wright. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 13, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But I know that it's stacked against me by the establishment.

We had a lot of delegates and they were not heard because the Republican Party out there was 100 percent probably controlled by RNC. And they changed the rules a number of months ago. The people --

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: About eight months.

TRUMP: Well that's not very long ago.

COOPER: But you had a lot of time to prepare a general organization --

TRUMP: You know why they changed the rules? Because they saw how I was doing and they didn't like it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Here are the big questions. Is the system rigged? Is it rigged specifically against Trump? Is this talk going to help him or hurt him? Discuss. We're going to do that right now. Former New York Congressman Rick Lazio; he ran for Senate, lost to Hillary Clinton in 2000. Good to see you sir.

RICK LAZIO (R), FMR. NEW YORK CONGRESSMAN: Good to see you, Chris.

CUOMO: Always.

LAZIO: Same here.

CUOMO: When you hear Donald Trump saying they don't want me to win, they did this because of me, do you know of any proof to back up that suggestion that any rules were changed in any state to stop him?

LAZIO: No, of course not. These rules have mostly been in place for over a year. The states themselves create most of the rules. The convention rules will be created at the convention. Donald Trump knew this when he announced for president, and the issue is he just has to execute on a plan to be able to get those delegates. I mean, I know what it's like. I was in a convention where I had my state party chairman oppose me and have the operation of the party oppose me. And you just go to work. You know the rules. You work within the system and you win. That's what Donald Trump needs do.

CUOMO: So he's wrong about it being designed to him, and yet he winds up being right because people are so angry at the system. The rules are weird. They're especially weird on your side. Colorado winds up being the ugly example of how it seems to be taken from the people. So does this help Trump even if he's not right in his core assessment?

LAZIO: It does and it doesn't, Chris. To some extent he's playing to the sense of I've lost faith in the institutions. The party faithful, many of them, have felt as though the party has not delivered on its promises and so they are questioning their credibility in many ways.

So in terms of reaching out to the grassroots and amplifying his message that I'm the anti-establishment candidate, it plays. The problem for Trump is that he now goes into another phase, which is to appeal to delegates potentially at the convention, at a contested convention, that aren't already pledged to him. He's got to persuade people that are long-time party stalwarts that somehow --

CUOMO: They like the party, and he keeping saying the party stinks.

LAZIO: He's saying that they're illegitimate, OK? So he's got to overcome that somehow and build some trust to be able to get there. You know, and the question is, OK, the party's actually changed the rules so that the voting has become much more proportional in many states. You an argue that that's much more fair. And you could argue that, in fact, the electoral college in itself is not, because be don't elect presidents by direct vote. I mean, if he were to win but -- the electoral college in a general election but not get the popular vote, would he say the system is rigged and give it up?

[08:35:03] CUOMO: The electoral college has an advantage that this delegate system doesn't. The electoral college -- and you know all this -- but the electoral college gives smaller states proportional representation, makes them relevant. We don't really know what the goal of these delegate deals are sometimes other than to empower that party.

Now Reince Priebus, the head of the RNC, hHe made no bones about this. In the past, they've been cautious when dealing with Trump, especially once he became the frontrunner. But in this tweet he said, look, read it for yourself. "It's been known for a year plus, beyond. It's the responsibility of the campaigns to understand it. Complaints now? Give us all a break."

You just said, Mr. Lazio, this is about having your team win on the ground. When you were opposed, you're a grinder, you put your team in there and you went against it. I've been with you on the basketball court, I've watched your playing in the political game as well. You get your elbows ready and you go after it. He's not succeeding at that on the ground. He's winning the popular vote, he's winning delegates. Is his organization not where it needs to be?

LAZIO: It's not where it needs to be. He's not executing on an effective plan to win these delegates and to play within these rules and to focus on the details. He's done a great job of amplifying his message to a certain segment of the Republican base. Now he goes to another phase where he has to build an organization and he has to execute and deliver to be able to get these delegates in place to win a majority of the delegates. Those are the rules of the game when he joined the contest. And he's got to be able to execute on this.

And there's going to be a whole other group of issues that I hope he'll begin to engage on, and the other candidates. You know, we're going to have a debate, for example, very soon with the Democrats in Brooklyn. You know, there are a number of issues that haven't come up yet, Chris. I want to hear about affordable housing. Thirty percent of --

CUOMO: I know you do.

LAZIO: -- New Yorkers who are spending more than 50 percent of their income on housing. Fifty percent on housing! And we have yet to have a single question in a debate from either party about an issue like that.

CUOMO: So that takes us to what's it going to be like when they get together. Let's remind people, when you were in 2000 (ph), running against Hillary ,Clinton you had a moment on the stage with her which wound up coming back to bite you. Let's just remind people of what it was. You're up there debating with Hillary Clinton. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would be happy to when you give me the signed letters. When you give me --

LAZIO: Right here. Right here. Sign it right now.

CLINTON: We'll shake on.

LAZIO: NO, no, I want your signature. I think everybody wants to see you signing something that you said you were for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now this became a study in the politics of the confrontation and the dynamic between a man and a woman on the stage. What did you learn from that experience? What's your lesson to Donald Trump?

LAZIO: Yes, stay at the podium. That's the number one thing.

(LAUGHTER)

LAZIO: Well, in this case, I mean the background of this, this is about campaign finance reform. Mrs. Clinton had made a pledge. I didn't think she was fulfilling it. I thought this was an opportunity. And she said show me the -- shoe me the signed pledge. OK, here it is. You asked for it. Here it is. And ironically the way the next morning, Chris, a majority of the journalists in New York when polled about who won the debate had me winning it. But when they saw the clip people thought, wow, this is a sense of invading --

CUOMO: Too aggressive.

LAZIO: Too aggressive. Yes, and if I look at it, I said -- that's not -- that wasn't me. I shouldn't have gone there. So I regret that. I think --

CUOMO: What's the lesson for Trump? Because he say he's going to give Hillary Clinton beat down on a very personal level.

LAZIO: It's a different era. I think actually Donald Trump would get away with more than I could possibly get away with. Part of it is his persona and how people define him and see him, and they expect a certain behavior from him and they expected a certain behavior from me probably. And so I think there is a difference there.

But there is a line to be crossed. I think he needs to be tough; I think he needs to hold -- if it's Mrs. Clinton as the opponent and the nominee, and he's the nominee of the Republican Party -- he needs to hold her accountable. Nobody goes into a presidential debate or Senate debate, for that matter, and they shouldn't expect that it is going to be softballs. They should expect that this is going to be a hard fought, hard argued debate, and that there are things that are totally within bounds on issues and character and hypocrisy. But there are other -- there's other language and other things that are probably out of bounds. He needs to be careful that he doesn't cross is that.

CUOMO: You learned from that. You're living a great life. You're building affordable housing. You look great. You look younger now than you did then.

LAZIO: Oh, thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: It's amazing what happens when you get out of the game. Rick Lazio, thanks for being with us.

LAZIO: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Hi Chris. Musicians uniting to protest a wave of religious freedom measures in southern states. What impact will their solidarity have? Openly gay country music star Chely Wright joins us to weigh in.

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[08:43:32] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go with the five things to know for you NEW DAY.

Donald Trump accusing the RNC of conspiring to keep him from winning the GOP nomination. He says the rules are stacked against him and that party leaders should be ashamed.

Meanwhile, House Speaker Paul Ryan is trying to end speculation that he has White House ambitions, telling reporters he does not want nor would accept the GOP nomination in a contested convention.

Meanwhile Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are ready to battle it out in Brooklyn, the Democrats squaring off at a high stakes debate tomorrow night right here on CNN. That critical New York primary is just six days away.

North Carolina's governor revising a controversial new anti- discrimination law. It gives LGBT state workers the right to sue over employment discrimination. However, it keeps the transgender restroom provision intact.

The Golden State Warriors going for a record 73rd win tonight. Ticket prices topping $16,000 on the secondary market. It is also the end of an era for the Lakers. Kobe Bryant's final game tonight. Those seats, the best seats offered a record shattering $28,000 each. I think I'll watch on TV. For more on the five things to know, be sure to visit newdaycnn.com.

Chris?

CUOMO: Which would you go to, Mick? Would you go to the Kobe game or the Warriors game?

PEREIRA: Kobe.

CUOMO: Impressive choice. She is an L.A. girl.

First, it was big business, now it is big entertainers pushing states to reject so-called religious freedom laws in the south, arguing they're really just legalized discrimination against LGBT people.

[08:45:09] Country music singer Chely Wright sharing how she's taking a stand next.

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PEREIRA: North Carolina's governor amending a controversial bathroom law after outrage. His executive order now allows LGBT state workers to sue for employment discrimination, but the most controversial provisions requiring transgender people to use restrooms corresponding to birth gender. Well, that remains intact.

Musicians are uniting against these measures, some even canceling performances in the south in response to a wave of so called religious freedom measures. Joining us now, the first openly gay country music recording artist and LGBT activist, Chely Wright.

CHELY WRIGHT, COUNTRY MUSIC RECORDING ARTISTS: Hi.

PEREIRA: What a delight to meet you. Thanks so much for being here.

WRIGHT: So glad to be here with you.

PEREIRA: A girl from Tennessee.

WRIGHT: Yes. Well, I grew up in Kansas and I moved to Tennessee when I was 18, lived there for 20 years and now I reside in New York City. But Nashville will always be home.

PEREIRA: Well, and that's why you take this issue very - very personally. And not just personally, but you also realize the impact it has. and I want to see -- read the statement that you released in reaction to the bills that are - the anti-LGBT bills that are going forward in - in Tennessee.

"As an artist living and working in Nashville for more than twenty years, I know how hard it was to struggle for acceptance as a gay woman. The deck is stacked even higher against transgender students who face dramatically increased rates of bullying.

[08:50:05] This bill will send a devastating message to transgender youth that they are not welcome, included or valued."

Really important for you to say this. Why did you - why did you feel it was so important?

WRIGHT: Well, I came out six years ago and part of my commitment to myself to come out so publicly and such a very coordinated way was I wanted my voice to be a part of the discussion. You know, in country music gay issues aren't being talked about, LGBT issues aren't being discussed, or weren't then. And I just - it's hard to shut me up once I came out. It's just really hard to shut me up.

PEREIRA: Well, and you're not alone. There are other voices. But with this issue, these anti-discrimination bills that are - that are circulating, do you -- or the anti-LGBT bills that are circulating, do you feel that there's enough support? We've noticed that there are voices. For example, Bruce Springsteen, Ryan Adams, Miley Cyrus, some have even chosen to cancel shows.

WRIGHT: Yes.

PEREIRA: But it's not quite as a resounding call from your country music pals, if you will.

WRIGHT: Yes, we are still a little behind in...

PEREIRA: Why do you think that is?

WRIGHT: Well, do you want to talk about it?

PEREIRA: Let's do it.

WRIGHT: Okay, it's scary as a country music artist, it's - it's scary because you - you know that you're -- by and large our fan base is the bedrock of their lives is faith, family and country. What we have to -- what I need to continue to talk about and encourage my contemporaries in country music to discuss is that those are the bedrocks of my life still.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Right.

WRIGHT: I'm a married woman. I have identical twin boys who will be three, God help me, next month.

PEREIRA: We'll send some prayers your way.

WRIGHT: And faith is and always has been a big part of my life. So, I think that -- I know that there are some like-minded artists in country music. I know because I've talked to them privately. And I think their reticence in coming forward and not just saying I love all of my gay fans, I don't judge, I love the sinner, hate the sin, that's so 2010.

PEREIRA: Right. What's 2016 to you?

WRIGHT: 2016 is three big acts in country music. I haven't had a hit on the charts for over a decade. We're talking relevant artists, hit makers, the ones who have the biggest voices in country music. There are a few that I know are on the precipice of saying something. I think they feel uncertain, they don't know exactly what to say, they don't know what the reaction will be, but the change, what we need in 2016 is for them to absolutely 100 percent affirm the LGBT community and condemn these anti -- these very bigoted laws.

PEREIRA: What do you think will take to nudge them over the edge, or what do you think it is that's holding them back?

WRIGHT: My incessant e-mailing and texting them.

PEREIRA: That's going to be what it takes to get them to - to - to say something?

WRIGHT: I think that there's safety in numbers, Michaela. I think if one comes forward, perhaps another one might feel a little safer to do so. And it's also about education. A lot of my peers in country music may not think they know a trans person. I know they know a gay person. I know many of them have gays and lesbians who work for them and they love them. But we need them now to take that very courageous step to affirm and to say, you know, these bills are absolutely ridiculous.

PEREIRA: Well, and it's not just about the bills, but it's about the reality of living as a gay country music star in the south, right? Because that's - that is its own set of challenges and that's not necessarily been an easy road for you.

WRIGHT: It hasn't been, but I moved to New York right before I came out. Perhaps I was a little afraid to face it there in New York.

PEREIRA: Or in Tennessee rather you mean?

WRIGHT: In Tennessee.

PEREIRA: Yes.

WRIGHT: More important than what it's like to live as a gay artist in Tennessee, I - I would ask my peers in the country music industry to imagine what it's like to be a trans student in east Tennessee.

PEREIRA: Right, you make a very good point, because there - you -- as an artist, you live in somewhat of a bubble.

WRIGHT: A bubble, sure.

PEREIRA: But the reality, and this is the point that you've made...

WRIGHT: Yes.

PEREIRA: ... about this is that you're concerned what this means for the youth.

WRIGHT: Yes.

PEREIRA: These laws, how it's going to affect the lives of the transgender LGBT youth that are coming up.

WRIGHT: An already very vulnerable community of people. And I'm -- I'm going to go - I'm going to go one further and say that even if the bill doesn't pass, this damage is being done already because these kids who are harassed and bullied, believe you me, their classmates who have been bullying them are hearing this language being bandied about and it might embolden them to perhaps double down on that harassment.

PEREIRA: You're going to keep banging this drum.

WRIGHT: I am.

PEREIRA: And you are hoping that your friends are going to join you.

WRIGHT: I'm hopeful and I understand that, you know, there's -- it's difficult, it's difficult to speak out and say something that you know a portion of your fan base is not going to like.

[08:55:04] And, you know, at some point these country music artists who are friends of mine, their kids and their grand kids are going to say, papa, did you -- did you say something?

PEREIRA: Yes. Chely Wright, you're something else. You're a force to be reckoned with, girl.

WRIGHT: Thank you, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Keep on doing it.

WRIGHT: So glad to sit down with you and finally meet you in person.

PEREIRA: The pleasure's mine. I'm a big fan of her.

We got your Good Stuff coming next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: It's time for the Good Stuff. Ignore the people laughing at me. Zach Gordon is a nurse in Bering Springs, Michigan. Has two passions in his life: his job and his music. So while helping his patients with Alzheimer's, he came up with an idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZACH GORDON, NURSE: These patients that are rolling around in a wheelchair all day, they should have some sort of music or some sort of stimulation. And that is what started me along the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: So what are you going to do about it? Zach created a device that would provoke memory through listening to music and any message recorded to the device. Listen.

PEREIRA: Fascinating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORDON: With this device, you can record a mental that said, Hey, Grandma, I love you, I'm thinking about you. And because they don't have their own memory, you can help them remember.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIERA: I love that.

CUOMO: Isn't that great? Zach is still working to produce more of the devices to help those who suffer from Alzheimer's, to help them actively remember what they so desperately don't want to forget.

[09:00:08]

PEREIRA: Sealing people's memories.

CAMEROTA: I mean, music is such a trigger of memories. And what a great idea.

Time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.