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New Day

Democratic Presidential Candidates Debate in New York; Interview with Trump Campaign Manager Corey Lewandowski; Trump Slams GOP Establishment in New Op-Ed. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 15, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Happy Friday.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: You, too.

CUOMO: Happy Friday.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: You, too.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your post-debate edition of NEW DAY. It is Friday, April 15th, 8:00 in the east. We begin with the brawl in Brooklyn. Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, battering each other like never before at last night's CNN Democratic debate. Clinton challenging Sanders on gun control and foreign affairs. Sanders questioning the former secretary of state's Wall Street ties, and fitness to lead. Who came out on top? New Yorkers make the final judgment when they head to the polls in just four days.

CAMEROTA: So while the Democrats debated, the Republicans dined. Donald Trump, Ted Cruz and John Kasich all attending a GOP gala, outside of which hundreds of anti-Trump protesters showing up. Trump penning a new op-ed poses one big question to voters. Let's begin with John Berman with the highlights of last night's fiery debate. Hi, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Alisyn. Bright lights, big city, big debate, big, bruising debate, probably the most contentious yet, with each candidate trying to land decisive blows.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: You want contrast?

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do question her judgment.

BERMAN: You want contentious?

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Describing the problem is a lot easier than trying to solve it.

BERMAN: You got Brooklyn -- a high-tension, high-drama debate befitting the high stakes of the moment. From the start, Bernie Sanders blasted Hillary Clinton's judgment.

SANDERS: I question a judgment which voted for the war in Iraq. And I question her judgment about running super PACs.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: This is a phony attack that is designed to raise questions when there is no evidence or support to undergird the insinuations that he is putting forward in these attacks.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, secretary.

BERMAN: But nearly every Sanders salvo was met by a Clinton call for specifics, including his suggestion that she is in the pocket of big banks.

SANDERS: When millions of people lost their jobs and their homes and their life savings, the obvious response to that is that you got a bunch of fraudulent operators, and that they have got to be broken up. That was my view way back, and I introduced legislation to do that. Now, Secretary Clinton was busy giving speeches to Goldman Sachs for $225,000 a speech.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: We cannot come up with any example because there is no example.

(APPLAUSE)

And it's always important, it may be inconvenient but always important to get the facts straight. I stood up against the behaviors of the banks when I was a senator. I called them out on their mortgage behavior.

SANDERS: Secretary Clinton called them out. Oh, my goodness. They must have been really crushed by this. And was that before or after you received huge sums of money by giving speaking engagements?

(APPLAUSE)

BERMAN: Speeches for which Hillary Clinton still says she will not release the transcripts.

CLINTON: Let's set the same standard for everybody, when everybody does it, OK, I will do it.

BERMAN: The Brooklyn brawl ran so hot at times the fighters needed to be separated by the ref.

SANDERS: I am sure a lot of people are very surprised to learn that you supported raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

(APPLAUSE) CLINTON: You know, wait a minute, wait, wait -- come on. I have

stood on the debate stage with Senator Sanders eight prior times.

SANDERS: Excuse me --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secretary, senator, please.

CLINTON: We can raise it to $15 in New York or Los Angeles --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, Secretary, if you're both screaming at each other, the viewers won't be able to hear either of you.

CLINTON: I have said from the very beginning that I supported the fight for $15. I supported those on the front line of the fight for -- it happens to be true.

BERMAN: Well, I think the secretary has confused a lot of people. I don't know how you're there for the fight for $15 when you say you wanted $12 an hour national minimum wage.

(APPLAUSE)

BERMAN: Then there were decisions about contrition. Clinton offering an apology of sorts for the 1994 crime bill her husband signed into law.

CLINTON: I'm sorry for the consequences that were unintended and that have had a very unfortunate impact on people's lives.

BERMAN: But Sanders, when pushed, with no apology for his positions on gun control.

SANDERS: I don't believe it is appropriate that a gun shop owner who just sold a legal weapon to be held accountable and be sued.

BERMAN: Including no apology to families of victims of Sandy Hook who have criticized his opposition to have lawsuits against some gun sellers.

SANDERS: I don't think I owe them an apology. They have the right to sue, and I support them and anyone else who wants the right to sue.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:05:00] BERMAN: Hillary Clinton kept repeating a line last night that shows the dividing line in the Democratic Party right now. She said it's easy to diagnose a problem. It's harder to do something about the problem, and that's the division between dreaming and doing that you see, really, between Sanders supporters and some Clinton supporters. Chris?

CUOMO: J.B., Sanders taking a lot of issues with things Hillary Clinton has and has not done last night as well. So let's discuss the ramifications and repercussions what went

down in Brooklyn at the Democratic debate. We have New York congressman and Hillary Clinton supporter Representative Eliot Engel and New York City council speaker also supporting Clinton, Melissa Mark-Viverito. So, two Clintons sitting next to each other, you will both have to justify what happened last night. First for you, congressman, release the transcripts. That's what Bernie Sanders is saying. If you don't have anything to hide when you talked to the banks, release the transcripts. This has been dogging the secretary for months, this issue. Why hasn't she released them?

REP. ELIOT ENGEL, (D) NEW YORK: I don't know why she hasn't released. Probably the same reason why he hasn't released his income taxes. You can always take one thing and run with it. The bottom line is people support Hillary Clinton because she has a proven track record. She is effective, she gets things done. She represents the heart of the Democratic Party. Look, I served 16 years in the House with Bernie Sanders. He's a very nice guy. I like him a lot. When it comes to experience, when it comes to people you know will do foreign policy right, we really don't want someone with on the job training. We want a steady hand like Hillary Clinton.

CUOMO: Speaker, Bernie Sanders says he is releasing his taxes. He has released them before. He says he is releasing some today, some more next week. What does that have to do with the speeches? Secretary Clinton said to me and other, I'll release them when everybody else does. Don't leaders lead? If I asked you for something, would you say I'm going to do it when everybody else does?

MELISSA MARK-VIVERITO, (D) SPEAKER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: I think this is, again, another tactic that the Sanders campaign has demonstrated, these diversions and distractions. Really the standard procedure in these kinds of race is that you will release your tax returns. The request to release the speeches is something new that has not been requested in the past. So I think that, again, it's a distraction, the releasing of tax returns and the fact that nothing has happened. He said last night, might release one today. We'll see when she has released eight years that are fully online and transparent. I think that speaks to leadership.

So that's what this is about. This is about a proven track record as the congressman said. She was our senator here in the state of New York, and she delivered at a time we really needed her to deliver, one, when it was post-9/11, obviously, and also on immigration reform, where she stood with our communities when Sanders did not.

So there's very clear, a record of distinction that the senator has. We know her. She's not new to us. She's not learning. She doesn't have a learning curve when she goes into the White House, and that is why she will win New York state on Tuesday.

CUOMO: Is Bernie Sanders right to say, I should have been standing next to Cuomo and everybody else celebrating $15 an hour. This is my issue. Hillary Clinton's for $12, not $15. MARK-VIVERITO: She did not waver. She has stood in California

with the workers. She has proven herself in standing with us here in New York state. She supports the state efforts to go to $15. She has said she will support federally $12 an hour, but as a step. We're stepping it up here in New York state, and so she's saying, let's do $12, and any state that wants to raise it further I will support them, and she has demonstrated that consistently.

ENGEL: Might I say that's a semantical argument. Hillary is for $15, she is just saying that the tactic in some states would be to first go to $12, then raise it to $15.

CUOMO: But that's Sanders argument, which is incremental change, not enough. And $15, as you both know, I've heard both of you argue, isn't enough either if you do the math $15 times 40, times 50 gets you, that's not something most people would want to live on, but they're forced to anyway, and that's if things get done at the best that's being proposed. So Sanders is saying go bigger than that. Don't do the little step because it's politically salable. Do what matters.

MARK-VIVERITO: And you need support of the Congress to get there. You need to be able to build a coalition that is bipartisan to get there. That is what Hillary Clinton is talking about, being pragmatic as well in a situation that, yes, aspirationally we want to get to $15 and beyond. How do we get there? And so I think that is really what sets her apart, and that is why I support her strongly.

CUOMO: The point you were trying to make is that it's a semantic argument because, why? It's a step from one to the other as opposed to different conceptually?

ENGEL: Well, sometimes. Can you go from $7 or $8 right to $15? I don't know. Some places you can't. If you incrementally work your way up to $15, maybe you have to stop at $12. It's silly. She's for $15, she's for it in New York, she's for it in New York City, she for it in states that want it, and to imply that because she believes in some states you need a stepping-stone to get to $15 from $12, to attack her for it is really silly, and that's kind of what the Sanders campaign has been doing. No one can question Hillary Clinton's commitment on these various social issues.

[08:10:01] She was our senator eight year. She was effective. She was elected and re-elected with a great majority, and she's the person that has the experience.

Now, he is trying to make it sound like if you have experience, somehow or other you've sold out. I mean, there is a system there and you have to work in the system. I go to Washington, I'm not happy Republicans control the House and Senate.

CUOMO: People hate the system. People want you to fight the system.

ENGEL: We fight the system, and hopefully will have President Hillary Clinton and a Democratic majority in both the Senate and the House. I think that's possible, and then we'll change a lot of things and we'll do a lot of good things. But to pretend you can do things while Republicans control both chambers is just not true.

Hillary was known as one of the most effective senators in Washington. The New York delegation is wholeheartedly supporting her. I believe every Democrat representing New York is supporting her for president. What does that tell you? That tells you when she was senator she worked closely with us and we know how effective she is.

CUOMO: Congressman, speaker, thank you very much for making the case for Hillary Clinton.

MARK-VIVERITO: Thank you so much.

ENGEL: Thank you.

CUOMO: Appreciate it.

All right, so Donald Trump's campaign manager Corey Lewandowski was on the show, made news here talking about a controversy that directly involved him, revealing, he says, I did try to call the former Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields after that run-in at a Trump rally last month, but claims she did not respond. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, DONALD TRUMP's CAMPAIGN MANAGER: First and foremost I want to thank Mr. Trump for his loyalty and his dedication to his staff and to me specifically, because a lesser person and another politician would have terminated me on the spot. And so I'm so thankful for Mr. Trump and his loyalty to me in standing by me during a difficult time. And I'm thankful for my colleagues and family that went through this. And it should have never gotten to this point, and I'm glad it's over, and I'm glad the Palm Beach County district attorney's office has put this behind us and we're ready to move forward now.

CUOMO: Where is your level of personal regret for the fact this happened in the first place, putting yourself in the position, not giving Fields the apology she says she would have accepted in the beginning and made it all go away? How much is on you?

LEWANDOWSKI: Let me say this. That night, this is never reported, but I called Michelle Fields, because I didn't know what happened honestly. And in the interaction with Michelle Fields lasted a sum total of about three seconds. In my entire life I never met her before and the only time I've ever interacted with her is on that videotape. And three seconds may sound like a long time but it's a brief interaction, and it wasn't memorable to me. I'm sorry about that.

But that evening after I read her boyfriend's Twitter account saying that something had occurred, I made a phone call to Michelle and never heard back, and to this day never heard back from Michelle. So it's not that we didn't try to reach out and get to the bottom of it. It seems to me that she wanted to inject herself into making it a story, and now I'm glad the story's over.

CUOMO: She says never heard from you. She says this apology thing never happened. Is she going to hear from you again?

LEWANDOWSKI: Here's what I said. I have no reason to hate anybody, and what I want to do is bring everybody together and we move on past this. If we want to be successful as a party, and Donald Trump as a campaign we want to bring people together and focus our attention on waning the general election in November. That's what we want to do.

CUOMO: Apologize or not?

LEWANDOWSKI: Again, I reached out to Michelle, and I provided phone records to show that. And never once at any time or since then has she ever contacted the campaign directly. And that's the disappointing part because she had the opportunity to clear this up. And if she wanted to have a conversation she could have reached out to me directly or the office. That never took place.

CUOMO: The "New York Post" put out an endorsement of you, but an interesting one in there. Put it up the endorsement language that they had up there. Basically it said we're endorsing Trump because we believe that when he gets the general he's going completely change. He's going to change his tone and not just pivot on issues but also in his manner. The post-pivot Trump needs to are more presidential, better informed on policy, more self-disciplined, and less thin- skinned. It's like a totally different guy. That's a weird endorsement to get. Do you think Donald Trump is capable of changing what he is and who he is?

LEWANDOWSKI: I don't think you want anybody to change who they are. I think what you've seen is that the success of Donald Trump in his business career and now in the political realm, which he had never been a part of, is because he goes out and speaks his mind. And that's what people want. They're tired of the political correctness.

Ted Cruz speaks in platitudes all day long about this pie in the sky stuff. He's been a Washington D.C. insider his entire career, whether it was with the Bush administration or now, nothing has changed. That's the problem with our country. No one is looking to change Donald Trump. What they're saying is, be more presidential. I don't agree with that. We need to let Trump be Trump. What that means is when there's a problem, you talk about it. When it's radical Islamic terrorism, you're not shy about saying those words.

CUOMO: Isn't it how you talk about it, also?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, the American people are tough. They're smart. They're sophisticated. They know when we have a problem in the country, they see it. And this notion that we can't say tough things to the American people, that Donald Trump can't point out these problems, is a fallacy. When you say we've got terrorists coming into our country and killing our American citizens in California, and the president won't call it radical Islamic terrorism, that's a shame. The American people can take that. It's time to get tough again. It's time to make sure we put our country first. That's what Donald Trump is going to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:15:02] CUOMO: Very interesting, I have never seen an endorsement like the one the "New York Post" gave today. I've never seen them endorsed a candidate by saying: we're endorsing this person because we believe he will completely change.

CAMEROTA: They're saying you need to pivot, you need to change your method and mode and suggestions for how to do that. It is unconventional.

PEREIRA: Yet endorse him, which is interesting, right?

CUOMO: It's too bad, they couldn't just find that person.

(LAUGHTER)

PEREIRA: All right. We'll stay on the topic of Donald Trump attacking the system he says is rigged and stacked against him in a "Wall Street Journal" op-ed. We're going to talk to a Trump national co-chair, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump writing a new op-ed for "The Wall Street Journal." Again, blasting the delegate selection process and his chief rival. Trump writes, "Let me ask America a question. How has the system been working for you and your family? I, for one, am not interested in defending a system that for decades has served the interests of political parties at the expense of the people."

Here this morning to talk about this and more is Trump's national campaign co-chair and policy adviser Sam Clovis.

Good morning, Sam.

SAM CLOVIS, DONALD TRUMP'S NATIONAL CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIR AND POLICY ADVISER: Good morning, Alisyn. How are you today?

CAMEROTA: Doing very well. Let me read a little more from this "Wall Street Journal" op-ed that Mr. Trump has written. He has a lot of interesting points in here, one of them is, "Just as I he said I will reform our unfair trade, immigration and economic policies, they have also been rigged against Americans, so, too, will I work closely with the chairman of the Republican National Committee and top GOP officials to reform our election policies."

[08:20:12] So, Sam, as we know he's been very disgusted with the RNC. He's called the process disgusting and dirty. He said Reince Priebus should, quote, "be ashamed" of himself for this process. So, how is he going to work closely with these very officials?

CLOVIS: I think what's happened over the course of this campaign cycle, which has been like no other in American history, I think we've seen a lot of the warts and blemishes that come with the particular system that we have right now. Right now, we have 50 independent states, and six territories that essentially determine how they want to go about selecting if they want to have a presidential primary or caucus, and I think what's happened is you see what happens when you have an expanded schedule like this, when you don't have the ability to let the people have their say, and I think this is really coming back, and I think there are going to be a lot of adjustments after this campaign cycle, particularly in the Republican Party.

I think we're going to have a hard look at how we do business, who goes first. What being first means, and whether or not we can find a way to save some money along the way and also at the same time, have a much more deliberate and intentional method of selecting our nominee.

CAMEROTA: Well, Reince Priebus, the head of the RNC, was on another morning show today and he said basically Donald Trump doesn't really understand the process. It's not the RNC that sets the rules. Let me play for you what Reince Priebus said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: It was the same system that elected Abraham Lincoln. It's pretty much the same system that Democrats use. Delegates and voters choose the nominee.

The RNC doesn't write these rules. The states do, and each state -- the system can be changed but it has to be changed at the convention, if people want to change it with the delegates. That's how our rules are written.

I don't write the rules for the Republican Party. The delegates at the convention write the rules for the Republican Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. He's basically saying it's not the RNC. It's the people. Does Donald Trump get it?

CLOVIS: Well, yes, he gets it. That's what I've said. I think I said that earlier, that this is the whole process we've seen in place right now.

And I hate to disagree with Reince on any issue. I mean, he's doing a good job given what he's got to do and I think he's led the party extremely well over a very tumultuous time and has a tougher tank ahead of him. But this system was not in place when Lincoln was elected. This system is relatively new and we see more and more presidential primaries come forward, we see the caucuses here and it is set by the RNC.

The RNC establishes particular rules, but the states are essentially given free rein to conduct their primary process any way they see fit and this, again, goes to the notion that perhaps we need to have a better accountability. We need to have a better opportunity, better opportunities here and we need to save some money.

My God. I mean, how much money have we been spending out here on this process? Why do we not have regional primaries? Why do we not have the processes in place if we have carve outs, early states, there's a particular method and system in place to have a chance to select our nominee and let the people have the right to do that, rather than party insiders. That's essentially what's been going on in many of the states.

CAMEROTA: OK, another interesting piece of publication came out this morning and it's the "New York post" endorsing Donald Trump. Let me read to you a portion of this endorsement. They say, "Should he win the nomination, we expect Trump to pivot not just on the issues but in his manner. The post-pivot Trump needs to be more presidential, better informed on policy, more self-disciplined and less thin skinned.

Is that possible, Sam?

CLOVIS: Well, I think I just saw my boss, Corey Lewandowski, on a little bit earlier. He made the comment. We'll let Mr. Trump be Mr. Trump --

CAMEROTA: But that's not what "The Post" is saying. "The Post" is saying, you have to be something different than Mr. Trump?

CLOVIS: Well, I think "The Post" is one paper and I think the American people are relatively happy what they see in Mr. Trump and we have a process in place and have to let the process play out and we have -- two things we say in the campaign. Let Mr. Trump be Mr. Trump and for the rest of us, do your job. I'm doing my job. Corey's doing his job. Mr. Trump's doing his job.

CAMEROTA: So, you don't see Mr. Trump changing his tone or his sort of manner after whatever happens at the convention?

CLOVIS: Well, let me see. How many more votes that he's received over Ted Cruz? I think maybe 2.5 million? I think perhaps we have a delegate lead in this process. We're probably going to -- you know, in the next three or four weeks scarf up a whole bunch more.

[08:25:00] And I think it's really up to the American people to determine what they want, and not what the pundits and the donor class and establishment and everybody else wants.

There's a particular template. I remember the first interview I gave Anderson Cooper back in September. I made a comment, I said you guys have a template and you're trying to force every candidate into that template.

Mr. Trump will not ever fit into that template and right now, the American people are craving the kind of leadership Donald Trump can provide and that's where this process is leading.

CAMEROTA: I'm sure Anderson Cooper said we do in the have a particular template but enjoy asking you all of the tough questions. Sam Clovis, thanks so much for being on.

CLOVIS: And, Alisyn, you look great today. Just got to say it.

CAMEROTA: You, too, Sam. Thanks so much.

CUOMO: Oh, boy.

CAMEROTA: See you later.

Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: You should hear him over here. Jealous because you've getting a compliment from Sam Clovis.

CAMEROTA: I know. He doesn't like it.

PEREIRA: Oh my!

CUOMO: Clovis, give me a break!

(LAUGHTER)

PEREIRA: Right. We've got a break coming up here. Supreme Court showdown on tap. 26 states challenging President Obama's executive action on immigration. The Texas attorney general leading the charge joins us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: On Monday, the Supreme Court hears arguments on a challenge by Texas and 25 other states to President Obama's executive action on immigration. The states have thus far successfully blocked the president's plan from being implemented, and all eyes will be on the high court with its current roster of only eight justices.