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Ted Cruz and John Kasich Campaigns Announce Joint Effort to Block Donald Trump from Getting GOP Presidential Nomination; Interview with Trump Policy Adviser Sam Clovis; Bernie Sanders Continues Campaign; Obama To Send 250 Special Ops Forces To Syria; Sanders Admits He Has "Narrow Path To Victory"; Rosario Dawson: "I'm With Lewinsky, Bullying Is Bad". Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 25, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We've got plenty of breaking news for you. A stunning twist in the Republican race. Listen to this -- Ted Cruz and John Kasich, remember how they keep going at each other? Not so much anymore. They're teaming up to stop Donald Trump. They've agreed to be "frenemies," divvying up different primary states. Why? To deny the frontrunner the delegates he needs to clinch the nomination. What does Trump say? Take a guess. "A horrible act of desperation" is one of the nicer quotes.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton also taking aim at Donald Trump. This is a mega Republican donor suggests Clinton could be a better president than the GOP nominee. All this unfolding as voters in five northeast states head to the polls tomorrow.

So we have the 2016 race covered the way only CNN can. Let's begin with Phil Mattingly. Hi, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. There has been no love lost between Ted Cruz and John Kasich on the campaign trail attacking one another. Their aides going after one another on Twitter. But behind the scenes, something else was happening. Phone calls between their top two advisers, a secret meeting between the campaign manager of one and the chief strategist of another just last week. It turns out they have something in common. They desperately need to stop Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to ask each and every one of you to come back and vote for me 10 times.

MATTINGLY: Ted Cruz betting big on Indiana, announcing he's joining forces with John Kasich in an unprecedented last-ditch effort to Donald Trump. The divide and conquer agreement, Cruz's campaign will, quote, "focus its time and resources in Indiana" to, quote, "clear the path for Kasich in Oregon and New Mexico." Kasich confirming the campaign collusion in a statement, writing that, quote, "Keeping Trump from plurality in Indiana is critical to keeping him from the nomination."

Recent polling shows Cruz trailing Trump by single digits in the Hoosier state. The strategy shift coming despite the fact that Kasich and Cruz continue to attack each other on the campaign.

GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A vote for Cruz or Trump frankly is a vote for Hillary Clinton.

CRUZ: John Kasich has no path whatsoever to the nomination.

MATTINGLY: Trump lashing out on Twitter, issuing a lengthy statement, writing, "Collusion is often illegal in many other industries, and yet these two Washington insiders have had to revert to collusion in order to stay alive. They are mathematically dead, and this act only shows as puppets of donors and special interest how truly weak they and their campaigns are."

The latest GOP bombshell coming ahead of Tuesday's primaries in Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island, states where Trump appears poised to perform well. The Republican frontrunner continuing his own attack dog strategy on the trail this weekend.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Cruz is working really hard to -- I don't want to use the word "bribe," but to bribe the delegates.

MATTINGLY: Accusing Cruz of illegal activity and rejecting calls to appear more presidential.

TRUMP: It's so much easier to be presidential because I don't have to use any energy. I can just walk out. You think this is easy ranting and raving, I have entertain 18,000, whatever the hell number of people we have here?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: There are no shortage of questions about what happens next, not the least of which is, is it too late? In talking with campaign advisers last night, it is clear they have one goal. As one texted me, it's just three words that matter -- get to Cleveland. Chris, it's all about that contested convention in July.

CUOMO: To Cleveland. Some of the only math in this election, that makes sense. Appreciate it very much, Phil.

Let's bring in Sam Clovis, co-chairman and policy adviser for the Trump campaign. Sam, what do you think about it, and will it work? Do you think they're going to stop Donald Trump?

SAM CLOVIS, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIRMAN AND POLICY ADVISER: No, I don't think so. I'm reminded of -- I'm a basketball fan and this is playoff season right now. Nolan Richardson used to be the coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks, wonderful guy. And he always said, you know, I remember a reporter asking one time how he was going to adjust to a particular team, and he responded and said I don't think we adjust to anybody. We play our game and make them adjust to us.

And I think this is exactly what we're seeing here. We're seeing that the Kasich and Cruz campaigns have absolutely no chance on their own to do this. I frankly don't think they have a chance together. I think we're not going to change anything. We're going to continue on. We're going to do great tomorrow in the primaries. And I think then we're going to slam the door on the other candidates.

And I would hope that they would start thinking about maybe instead of coming out here and trying to contest everything, let's all get together here so we can start going after Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders, and let's win this election in November.

CUOMO: There are a couple of points here. The first one is that this type of move that's going on, Donald Trump calls it collusion. In truth, collusion is usually secretive. This is out in the open.

[08:05:04] But how much of this does Donald Trump have to thank himself for in terms of the nature and tone of this campaign and do whatever it takes to win? It's like these guys are following his advice.

CLOVIS: I think really what we've seen here is something -- you know, Chris, you've been in this game a long time. And I've been an observer for over 50 years. I've never seen a campaign like this. And I think that we -- you have got to throw the rule book out here. There's no template for this on either side. We see Bernie Sanders is doing extremely well, and at least is making his statement there. And so I think we've seen some very unconventional things going on here. So I think you're going to see these kinds of adjustments. And collusion is certainly there, but it's not uncommon in politics, in particular for candidates to work against another candidate. We see this all the time and it doesn't matter whether you're running for city council or you're running for president of the United States.

CUOMO: So here is the concern, I would guess, from your side. All right, it doesn't work. But getting the 1,237 isn't easy anyway. You have to win in the upper 50 percent region. Yes, a lot of these states upcoming are winner take all. But it gets complicated. There's all this marginal proportionality in there and delegates that aren't bound. The system is going to matter here and a convention is a very real possibility. Is this combination of Kasich and Cruz an indication to you that you're going to have to work the system to win the election? It's not going to be as simple as reaching the number?

CLOVIS: I think so, but I think that's also why we've brought on some people -- the bandwidth got pretty saturated there. And we brought on some people like Paul Manafort and Rick Wiley and Ed Brookover and Barry Bennett and a bunch of these great professional people who we have out here to help us with all these aspects.

The comment I would make is take a look at your end state is, what your desired end state is and work your way backwards. We've done that. And this is one of the reasons that we're out doing the things that we're doing right now.

And I do think that once we get to the convention, it's going to be very hard after tomorrow -- I think it's going to be very hard for Ted Cruz or John Kasich, either one, to make the case that they should be the nominee because we're going to double them up in delegates. It's going to look very enticing. We're ahead in Indiana. If we do well in Indiana, we slam the door on everybody. And then it's just a race to see what the outcome is going to be in California because eventually that's where this is going to end up and we're going to see the delegate count out there. And I do think there is going to be a sense of inevitability, and Kasich and Cruz, every day, have a harder time making their case.

CUOMO: Right, but it's all -- you say you have to figure out what the end state is. If it's no longer 1,237 and you hear all the people on the RNC side saying that, yes, they love their rules. Every party organization does. But they keep saying the same things to send a very clear message. This doesn't end if you don't 1,237. In their minds if you get to 1,236 it's like the thing never happened, and you go into the convention. And after that first vote, it's anybody's game. Do you think Donald Trump can make it out of a convention?

CLOVIS: I do. I think the number, 1,237, yes, we got that number, Chris. But I also think that there are 150 unbound delegates there that are going to take a look. If Donald Trump comes close, those are the delegates that will essentially put him over the top. The people who comprise the RNC and the people who are part of that unbound delegate cache are going to have to make a decision. Do they want an extended floor fight, do they want an extended open surgery on the floor of the convention, or do they want to get this thing done, get it unified, and let's get on to defeat the Democrats and win the White House in November?

I think the cooler heads will prevail and we'll do that. I think that that's what's going to happen. Even if Mr. Trump comes in close and he's not at 1,237, I think cooler heads will prevail and they're see the big game out in front of them.

CUOMO: Thank you for teeing up what is a question. I would like to ask it to Trump himself. I don't know what's going on. He hasn't been available here on NEW DAY. But cooler heads will prevail, shouldn't that start with Trump? He Is not going to lose any of his base supporters, Sam, no matter what he does. He says that more than anybody else. Why not start to be the kind of candidate that the people in your party, many of whom you know personally, believe can beat Hillary Clinton? Why not? Why not at least give it a try and see what happens?

CLOVIS: Well, I think that we will be giving it a try as we move further along here. I do think that those are the idea.

But, Chris, you and I have had this discussion months ago, this whole issue that everybody is trying to push Donald Trump into a particular template.

[08:10:01] I think this is what exists inside New York, what exists inside the beltway. But it's not -- how we've been able to bring all these people out, millions of people to come out and vote. This is not the way we brought people to these rallies. This is not the way that we've reenergized the people of this country to want them to take this government back. And I think that we -- it's a very delicate issue. We have to keep up the enthusiasm and all of that other aspects of this to keep people engaged. At the same time we don't want to drift off into the country club aspect of this.

CUOMO: Understood, Sam. But in politics, as Marshall Goldsmith, the noted business consultant, says what got you here doesn't always get you there. And that's the calculation you guys have to make. But Mr. Clovis, always appreciate you being on NEW DAY to take us through the thinking. We'll have you back on again soon, I hope.

CLOVIS: OK, thanks, Chris. It's great to see you today.

CUOMO: Always, always.

Coming up on NEW DAY, Ted Cruz's campaign will give their take -- it's not their take. It's their explanation on why they're doing this now after they said they would never do anything like this. Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton leading across the northeast, hoping she can put Bernie Sanders away this Tuesday. But she appears to be focused more on the general election fight. Sanders, for his part, not giving up, admits it is a narrow path to victory. Our national correspondent Jason Carroll is live in Maryland with more. Hi, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you. The reality is that the enthusiasm is there, the money is there, the message is there for Bernie Sanders. But the path to the nomination simply is not there. Clinton knows that. That's why she is now focusing her attention on the Republican frontrunners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hello, Bridgeport.

CARROLL: Hillary Clinton is gearing up for a five-state primary battle with Bernie Sanders, but it doesn't sound that way on the stump.

CLINTON: What Trump and Cruz say, it's not only offensive, it's dangerous.

CARROLL: The Democratic frontrunners weekend speeches were saturated with attacks against her presumed general election rival, Donald Trump.

Trump says wages are too high in America. Trump says things like, bar all Muslims from coming into the country.

CLINTON: Donald Trump actually says wages are too high in America. Trump says things like bar all Muslims from coming into the country.

CARROLL: Ted Cruz wasn't spared from Clinton's blistering criticism either.

CLINTON: When Ted Cruz says, hey, let's round up all the Muslim- Americans by making sure we have police watching all of them. The commissioner of the NYPD really summed it up when he was asked. He said Ted Cruz doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. CARROLL: With a close lead across the polls in all five states,

Clinton is clearly focusing on moving past Sanders, but the Vermont senator is not budging, continuing to draw a stark contrast between them.

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This campaign, unlike Secretary Clinton's, has not raised $15 million from Wall Street. As secretary of state she pushed the fracking technology.

CARROLL: With nearly 400 delegates on the line this Tuesday, Sanders vows to keep fighting for each vote.

SANDERS: This campaign is doing well and will win.

CARROLL: Sanders promising to wage war against Clinton all the way until June.

SANDERS: We do have a path to victory. I think we have come a very, very long way in the last year, and we're going to fight for every last vote until California and the D.C. primary.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: So what the Sanders camp wants to do moving forward is bring its message, get its message to the convention. The Clinton camp, for its part, wants the Sanders camp to tone down the rhetoric. This after a Sanders surrogate, actress Rosario Dawson, as you know, mentioned Monica Lewinsky during a speech over the weekend. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: We will be talking more about that coming up in our next segment. Jason, thank you for that.

We do have some more breaking news, though, to get to this morning. President Obama announcing plans to deploy another 250 special operations forces to Syria in what he says will be an advise-and- assist role for Syrian opposition forces. CNN's Michelle Kosinski is live in Germany with all the details. Good morning, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn. There's 250 additional Americans about to deploy to Syria. And it's true, we're not talking about thousands of American troops on the ground. But this is a significant jump, especially when you consider when all is said and done, when these troops deploy in coming weeks, there will then be six times the number in Syria that there is right now.

The White House emphasizing, though, that this is not a combat role for them. Yes, they will be on the ground. Yes, this will be dangerous. And they will be prepared. But their goal here is to advise and assist, words we hear a lot, local troops that are fighting ISIS, to train them, to provide them with weapons, and in this case to try to get more Sunni Arabs into the fight.

Currently, most of it has been done by Kurds, but Arabs would be best equipped to keep areas that are taken from ISIS in Arab areas because focus being in and around Raqqa, which is still ISIS' strong hold. So why now? The president says let's keep up the momentum. ISIS is losing ground. This is not to say that the U.S. wants to continue to do the lion's share of the work on its own. The president again took this opportunity to urge other countries to do more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Europe, including NATO, can still do more. In Syria and Iraq, we need more nations contributing to the air campaign. We need more nations contributing trainers to help build up local forces in Iraq. We need more nations to contribute economic assistance to Iraq so it can stabilize liberated areas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: Total number of U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria after this will be 4,000 -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: I hear you on that point, Michelle. It's 50 here, 250, then it's to thousands and where does it lead? There is no question that's why we're staying on it. Let's take a quick break here.

Family and friends saying their final farewell to music legend Prince. His remains were cremated over the weekend in a small, private ceremony. Now there's the question of how to settle the state.

Under Minnesota law, Prince's sister is going to inherit the estate if he died without a will. Remember this was very sudden. They don't even know what's in the estate yet. There's all this music. What other assets are there? It will be a big deal.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Speaking of music, another loss in the musical world. Singer Billy Paul has died. He's remembered best for his 1972 hit "Me and Mrs. Jones" performed here on "Soul Train."

We've got a thing going on. My goodness, that song. The hit song earned Billy Paul a Grammy. He burst on the scene in jazz clubs back in the late 1960s with the likes of Charlie Parker. He lost his battle with cancer at 81 years old. Forever remembered for that and so many others.

CUOMO: Good life though at 81. That adds to the Prince situation, 57 years young.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely.

Well, is Team Sanders playing dirty? A Sanders surrogate referencing Monica Lewinsky over the weekend. Is that fair? We'll discuss with two Democratic strategists ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:21:15]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that whether you're working hard in a factory or you're working to make a small business successful, you should feel that your country has your back. When I am president, small business people, especially minority and women own small businesses will have that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Well, that was Hillary Clinton, sounding confident ahead of the five northeast primaries tomorrow. Bernie Sanders, though, says he sees a path forward, despite the long odd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Obviously our goal now is, while we have a narrow path to victory, we're going to fight through that path and hope to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So here to discuss is former senior adviser to President Bill Clinton and Democratic strategist, Richard Socarides, and Washington Director of moveon.org and a Bernie Sanders supporter, Ben Wikler. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

Ben, I want to start and I want to ask you about Bernie Sanders' path to victory. What do you think will happen in these five Mid-Atlantic northeast states tomorrow? Is Bernie Sanders going to beat Hillary Clinton in any of these?

BEN WIKLER, WASHINGTON DIRECTOR, MOVEON.ORG: You know, millions of people haven't voted and although the path is narrow the campaign and all of the Sanders allies and supporters across the country will go to the mat to turn out every possible voter.

I'm not going to guarantee that we will win every one of these states. But I will say is that every time someone votes for Bernie Sanders, every time gets involved in this movement for our country that works for everyone not just the billionaires, we get a little bit closer to the country that Bernie Sanders is talking about.

Where we have a $15 minimum wage, health care for all. We've broken up the big banks and the economy is really serving working people and the middle class. I think that will be squarely a focus for this campaign going forward.

CAMEROTA: Richard, Bernie Sanders has the cash to stay in the race. He still is attracting big crowds at rallies, as we've seen over the weekend. Why should Hillary Clinton supporters like you say he should get out of the race?

RICHARD SOCARIDES, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: Well, I don't think anybody is saying he should get out of the race.

CAMEROTA: Some people are. Some people say it's time to coalesce around the frontrunner.

SOCARIDES: Well, what I do think you're seeing -- saw over the weekend and will see going forward is a little bit of a change in tone. I mean, the Democrats have run an issue-based campaign on both sides and I think the Democrats will continue to focus on the issues, especially when compared to the Republicans.

But I think, you know, you're going to see Senator Sanders now talks about a narrow path. I think that's a change in tone. So I think that he has to do what he feels is appropriate.

He's raised important issues. He will continue to raise important issues. I mean, I think that the issues he raised will be an important part of our convention.

You saw Senator Merkley (ph), you know, who's perhaps Senator Sanders most important surrogate earlier on the show today, say that he thinks everybody will be able to come together. So I think we're in a good place as Democrats especially when compared to the Republicans.

Hillary put out an ad this morning called "love and kindness." That's what the Democratic campaign will be about going forward I think.

CAMEROTA: Ben, though, over the weekend one of Bernie Sanders' supporters, actress, Rosario Dawson, invoked the name Monica Lewinsky at a rally and she was talking about how Monica Lewinsky has been bullied and shamed.

And Rosario Dawson is drawing an analogy that she feels that some Sanders' supporters have been as well. Is that out of bounds to talk about Monica Lewinsky?

WIKLER: You know, there's a reason you haven't heard that name in more than a year along the campaign. It has nothing to do with this race. This race is about the issues, fighting for working and middle class Americans, fighting climate change, equal pay.

These are the issues that motivate millions of people to get out of bed in the morning, knock on doors, make phone calls for Bernie Sanders, click those instant donate links, and power this extraordinary insurgent campaign. I think those are the issues we'll be focused on going forward and rightly so.

CAMEROTA: So what should Bernie Sanders, Richard, have said after Rosario Dawson brought up Monica Lewinsky?

SOCARIDES: Well, I think you heard him on Sunday. He didn't sound to me like he wanted anything to do with it and I think, you know, there's not much one could add to what Ben said.

[08:25:07]Again, Senator Merkley earlier on the show said that she was off track. So I don't think it really has any place in the campaign and I don't think we'll see it.

CAMEROTA: I want to talk about breaking news that we are having this morning. That is President Obama overseas has announced that he's sending 250 more U.S. troops to try to quell the terrible civil war that's going on in Syria. How do you think that's going to play on the campaign trail?

WIKLER: You know, I think it reminds people of the decisions of getting involved in wars in the Middle East. It reminds people frankly of the decisions about the Iraq war where Bernie Sanders and Barack Obama had the same view.

It's just vital that the United States never get bogged down into a quagmire where it can ultimately make things worse rather than better. While this is a small step, it's vital that we, as Sanders says, we keep our eye on the ball.

We not make a mistake that could put U.S. lives and lives of people locally at risk by getting involved in something that can spin out of control.

CAMEROTA: Hillary Clinton, as you know, Richard, is seen more hawkish in the race. How should she respond to this?

SOCARIDES: Well, I think the -- with the policy Ben laid out is the policy that most Democrats, I think all Democrats could get behind. I mean, 250 troops, they're not ground troops. We have to fight ISIS. Everybody is committed to defeating ISIS.

So I think that the president's very measured actions today are something that all Democrats can get behind. I don't think it will play much within the Democratic primary process.

But certainly in the general election where you have two people with no foreign policy experience running to be president. Certainly Hillary's experience will stand in stark contrast to that.

CAMEROTA: Ben, Richard, thank you. Great to talk to you. We'll send it over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn, so fans and fellow musicians honoring the legend that is Prince. Ceelo Green will share his memories with us next. Thanks for being with us, Ceelo. Appreciate it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)