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New Day

The Delegate Race; Ohio Family Murders: Is A Mexican Drug Cartel Behind It?; Trump Accuses "Desperate" Rivals of "Collusion. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 26, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:33:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Voters in five states already hitting the polls this morning. Donald Trump making his final pitch just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I just hope everybody goes out and votes because this is really something special. It's a movement. It's really a movement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, Trump and Clinton looking to build on their delegate lead. How will it all play out? CNN political analyst and magic wall wizard, David Gregory, back with us to look at the delegate map.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That is my official title.

CAMEROTA: Well, I'm glad because this is going to get a little complicated --

GREGORY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- so fasten your seatbelt, David. Let's look at where we are today on the Republican side. We all know the magic number of 1,237. How do you see this playing out?

GREGORY: Well, again, I think the key thing, 1,237 -- 172 are at stake today. There's some loopholes in that, which we'll get to. But a big night for Donald Trump, which is expected gets him over a thousand. Gets him within, perhaps, a couple of hundred delegates of where he needs to be.

CAMEROTA: OK, so let's look at the specific races -- the five that we're going to be seeing today.

GREGORY: Right.

CAMEROTA: Obviously, Pennsylvania is the big prize. What do you see here?

GREGORY: Well, Pennsylvania, big prize. We'll talk about how that works. If you look at all of these states, first of all, it's near his home territory of New York. We expect him to have a big night. We're talking about Donald Trump here. These are also states that are Democratic states in the fall on the electoral map. That's important -- that's where Trump has had particular strength.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about Pennsylvania. There's a lot of delegate up for grabs, 71.

GREGORY: Right.

CAMEROTA: How does it play out?

GREGORY: Well, if you win this state you get the 17 that are up for grabs. There's a huge loophole here, which is what they call it, a loophole primary, where 54 of the delegates are unbound. So, he could win the state and they could still say hey, we're voting for whoever we want to vote for at the convention, which means that all of the campaigns can be in the business of trying to woo them. Trying to get their delegates who will vote for them committed at this point, at least --

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump doesn't like that.

GREGORY: He doesn't like that.

CAMEROTA: This is why he thinks it's rigged because if you win the state, you should win all the delegates.

GREGORY: Right.

CAMEROTA: This is his argument.

GREGORY: It's a strange system and it becomes important when you're talking about being so close to getting to the magic number.

CAMEROTA: You think that's complicated? Let me show you Connecticut. What's happening here?

GREGORY: This is just a lot of verbiage. There's really no need. The bottom line is if you win this state you get a small number of delegates. In other districts you have to get at least 20 percent to get the winner-take-all. Some is not even winner-take-all, it's a hybrid. What you're looking for here if you're Cruz or Kasich -- capture a few of the districts, try to get some delegates by winning some congressional districts. That's what they're looking for.

CAMEROTA: You lost me at hybrid. Here is what we're looking at on the Democratic side. The number here is bigger -- 2,383. What do you see?

GREGORY: Obviously, this is a big distinction about 700 delegates here because it includes the superdelegates who could flip, theoretically. I don't think they're going to. Even the raw delegate number here -- over 200 delegates for a lead for Hillary Clinton, very difficult to make up. Nearly impossible for Bernie Sanders to make up at this point. CAMEROTA: Well, that's interesting because Chris just talked to Bernie Sanders --

GREGORY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- and he was saying that he, basically, thinks it's premature to try to encourage his supporters at some future date to support Hillary Clinton. He said that he's certainly in through California. So, let's look at what's happening -- we'll talk about that -- but here's what happening today. So, how does this break out?

[07:35:00] GREGORY: Well remember, on the Democratic side these are states that are proportional, so if you're Bernie Sanders you're trying to win some delegates. She's, obviously, trying to have a very big night. A state, again, like Connecticut, that's complicated. A lot around gun control, gun violence in Connecticut. He hopes to do well.

Look at New Haven, for example -- could be a district there with younger people that could be helpful because of Yale University. So, there's room here for him to get some delegates, but you still expect her to have a very big night. Gets her ever closer. Makes it just that much more difficult for him to do anything to catch up to her.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's look at the future.

GREGORY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: All eyes on Indiana. This is happening May 3rd, and this, for the Republicans, as you know, has now been this point where the Kasich-Cruz alliance has decided how they're going to do. What's happening in Indiana?

GREGORY: Well, a few things to point out. Conservative state, it's a red state in the fall in the general election. Conservative Republican governor, so this is a red state. Fifty-seven delegates. This is a state that should favor a conservative like Ted Cruz. He's close there in the polling to Donald Trump. It's not great polling out of there.

If Trump wins here, not only is it 57 delegates -- gets him that much closer. It just shows you that he can win all over the map. If Cruz can win here, it becomes a big move to stop Donald Trump from getting to the magic number.

CAMEROTA: And, with Kasich out of Indiana or not actively campaigning there, doesn't the field really tighten? I mean, Cruz can win here.

GREGORY: He absolutely can win there, but you also see Kasich saying well, if you want to vote for me you should still vote for me, so he's not completely backing out so it may complicate the efforts for Cruz. But again, we're talking, after tonight, in the zone of a couple of hundred that Trump is away. So anyplace on the map -- you look at 57 -- this is winner-take-all, OK? That's what's important, winner-take- all. That's a big number, either way, to stop Trump or for Trump to get closer to 1,237. CAMEROTA: OK, so we were just talking to Bernie Sanders, live, and he was talking about the future. Let's look into the future, shall we?

GREGORY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: These are the primaries left.

GREGORY: So, if you're Bernie Sanders, one of the reasons why you're not conceding anything now is that you realize you may have a tough time tonight. But you look at the map. You look in the Midwest, you look up here where he's done well. These are states with wider populations, a lot of progressives.

Less diverse states where he's proven he can do well. He's not doing as well in diverse states. Oregon, New Mexico -- he could rack up some victories there that gives him a little bit of momentum even if he doesn't have a shot at actually making it on the math.

CAMEROTA: David Gregory, thank you for figuring all of this out. It was a very complicated magic wall.

GREGORY: We did it.

CAMEROTA: Masterful.

GREGORY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. Let's get over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we're going to talk about this community that's on edge after the chilling execution-style murders of eight family members in Ohio. Marijuana grow operations were found on the properties. Their killer-killers are still on the loose. Could a drug cartel be involved? A former DEA agent joins us next.

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[07:42:00] PEREIRA: Police in Ohio are still searching for the killer or killers in these execution-style murders of eight family members at four homes in Ohio last week. They're also trying to determine the motive here. There is some speculation that it could have been drug-related, it could have been gang-related. Perhaps, could it have been revenge-related? Surviving family members have been told to arm themselves.

Joining us now is the former chief of international operations for the DEA, the Drug Enforcement Administration. He's been with us before. Mike Vigil, good to see you. Thanks so much for joining us and lending your expertise to this mystery.

Eight family members dead. Four different residences, three of which we understand they discovered some marijuana grow operations. We understand that county, Pike County in Ohio, has had some drug history before. You hear all those facts, Mike. What does that tell you? What does your instinct say? MICHAEL VIGIL, FORMER DEA CHIEF OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS: Michaela, I worked in Mexico for a total of 13 years and the murders that took place in Ohio have the signature of most Mexican cartels -- the way they carry out extermination, operations, the violence. It was very cold, methodical.

And you're absolutely right. In 2012, there were plantations of marijuana that were being grown in the area and there was a link to a Mexican drug cartel. It's still early to say whether or not that is the case. However, it could be fact that this family, the Rhoden family, were cultivating marijuana, apparently, may have been in competition with somebody's cartel members. The investigation continues but the fact is that it does have the signature of what Mexican cartels do in Mexico.

PEREIRA: It's early on in these investigations and I know authorities generally tend to keep close the vest with details because there's so much that could be at stake here. But we know that they did say that these grow ops were present. They reluctantly said that. Is there any other reason why they may be remaining so tight-lipped about this?

VIGIL: Well, usually when they're conducting homicide investigations they don't want to put out a lot of the evidence or information that they have, particularly when they are going to be interviewing a lot of individuals. So, they want to keep a lot of that to the vest so that they'll see what they can garner from potential suspects.

PEREIRA: Mike, so grisly. I mean, they killed an entire family but they left babies. A 4-day-old baby was alive next to a mother who had been shot. A 3-year-old, a 6-month-old baby -- why that separation? They kill an entire family but leave these infants, thank God mercifully, alive.

[07:45:00] VIGIL: Well, the fact is, too, that when they kill infants -- when they kill children -- in the event that they're captured and they go prison, the convicts within the prison system -- they'll kill individuals who molest children, who kill children. So there may be a reason.

The other factor to consider is that these infants and the 4-day-old baby could not act as witnesses, so they left them. But, still, the killings were execution-style. They were extremely methodical, cold- blooded, and all I can say is it's rare to have something like that happen on U.S. soil.

PEREIRA: Yes, absolutely. Search warrants have been issued to 50 or 60 people. They've gotten hundreds of tips already. They've gotten all sorts of evidence, et cetera. This is something new that we were learning, as well. That one of the young members of the family, 16- year-old Christopher Rhoden, Jr. -- the Ohio attorney general apparently told ABC News that a threat had been made on Facebook against this young man. Anything to the nature of that threat that says anything to you?

VIGIL: Not really, simply because a barking dog is not usually going to bite. It's the dog that doesn't bark that's going to bite and I don't think that they would want a telegraph what they were doing to do in terms of the homicides.

But let me also make this point, is that a lot of Mexican drug cartels are coming into the United States. They're going in through rural areas. They're going into national forestland, and they're cultivating marijuana for distribution here in the United States. Why? Because it's less risk than cultivating it in Mexico and then having to transport a bulk drug across the 2000-mile U.S.-Mexico border.

PEREIRA: Right, right, yes. Mike Vigil, we always appreciate your voice on these things. Thanks so much for joining us.

VIGIL: Thank you for having me.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn, over to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Michaela, back to politics. Voters heading to the polls in five states today. Donald Trump slamming the Cruz-Kasich alliance. We have the RNC's chief strategist joining us next.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:51:00] TRUMP: We have a rigged system. We have a corrupt system. This whole thing with the delegates is ridiculous and you have to go out and you have to get your beautiful delegate card, and you have to vote for your delegates -- the delegate. It's crazy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump last night, pointing to two things to make a single point. You see these crazy rules? You see my opponents getting together to stop me? The system is rigged. Is that argument going to resonate in today's five contests?

Let's discuss with Sean Spicer, chief strategist and communications director for the RNC. Always good to see you, my friend.

SEAN SPICER, CHIEF STRATEGIST & COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, RNC: Good morning.

CUOMO: So, the word rigged, as it passed through Donald Trump's lips, I watched you wince. You do not like that word. You feel it is inaccurate and wrong because?

SPICER: Because it's a system that we've used since 1856. The delegates of our party, who are elected by the grassroots from coast to coast through all the territories, are chosen. They're able to choose the nominee, the rules that we abide by, the platform, so it may be a complicated system.

But's it's a grassroots system. It's a Democratic system that recognizes the various different states and territories. Can craft a primary, a convention or a caucus, whatever's best to them. It's not a Washington top-down system. The Democrats, frankly, have a much more Washington-based center system. I think that's wrong. I think that the way we do it recognizes the different states and territories have --

CUOMO: But this is a bipartisan blowback, right? You have the Democrats with their superdelegates and who are they, and what do they really do, and is the proportion out of sorts and mitigating the common vote. On your side it's -- even if it's not rigged, even if it's not done by design, specifically, to thwart Trump or anybody else, the rules themselves are so confusing. Just Connecticut --

SPICER: They're not that confusing.

CUOMO: OK, listen to Connecticut. Not to you, you're very smart, but to people like me it could be very confusing. Connecticut primary -- hybrid. Proportional statewide, 20 percent threshold, 50 percent winner-take-all, trigger for 13 statewide delegates. Winner-take-all by district, 15 district delegates. This is a complex system.

SPICER: Sure.

CUOMO: People will point to it and say by design to let the insiders get what they want.

SPICER: OK, fair point. But look at who's leading right now on our side.

CUOMO: Trump.

SPICER: Ted Cruz and Donald Trump. Two folks that you would never call insiders in Washington. Two folks that nobody, at the beginning of this race, said that the establishment was picking. So when you look at the outcome it's exactly the opposite of what's being accused of.

So I would argue that the system is very fair. Right now, the two individuals that have gotten the most votes have the most delegates. You have a guy, like Donald Trump, who's gotten about 35-36 percent of the vote and has about 45-46 percent of the delegates. It actually has worked in his favor.

CUOMO: So --

SPICER: And, by the way, look where we are today. As a guy who grew up from Rhode Island the idea that we're having a primary in Rhode Island that matters on both sides shows you the system, right now, is bringing in more voters, more states than ever before. In 2008, when I voted in Virginia, the race was over. It was a civics lesson to go out and just check the box of who you were voting for.

CUOMO: You were just exercising a franchise.

SPICER: Exactly.

CUOMO: But now it's --

SPICER: But now, you've seen all these states and we're going to go until June 7th. Every state and territory in American is going to participate in the Republican process to help choose our nominee.

CUOMO: Trump and the other insiders, to call them that, argue that's happening despite the system, not because of it. And then he'll point to, specifically, Trump and his supporters, look at this alliance and he'll call it collusion.

By definition, it isn't because collusion is secretive. This is out in the open. And collusion is usually to something that is wrong/illegal and this is not illegal. But do you endorse this combination of Kasich and Cruz for the sole effort of keeping Trump from getting delegates?

SPICER: Well, first of all, we don't -- and I know you've heard me say this before. We don't endorse anything. Our job --

CUOMO: Or suggest that this is being fed through the system.

[07:55:00] SPICER: I understand this, but this is was a system that was set up years ago so the idea that we thought that our that far ahead that we actually --

CUOMO: No, with these two guys combining. Did you want them to do this?

SPICER: We don't want anything. What I want is to have the best nominee that's going to win in November. That's it, plain and simple. I want conservative values restored. I want to have a president that tackles the debt, instills a pro-life.

CUOMO: But, two combining against one. Does that sound right?

SPICER: No, that's not what I want. What I want is every candidate to run the best race possible to have a fair, and open, and transparent process where at the end two of the individuals who won't win, because by definition, two of them can't --

CUOMO: Right.

SPICER: -- is that they walk away and say I didn't win but it was fair. That's all I want, and us to be unified of the party and say Iwent in with as much passion for my guy as possible. We lost, it was fair, let's unite and beat Hillary Clinton.

CUOMO: Now, we've known each other a long time, but I remember when I came here we met here with the organizations and you were trying to sell us at the convention. Don't undersell that convention coverage. You know, you guys, you try to skimp during the conventions.

SPICER: Right.

CUOMO: Don't do it. We were like, yeah, yeah, we'll be at the convention. But could you have ever imagined that your convention would be bringing to a head this process in a way that certainly hasn't happened in our lifetime, including 1976? It wasn't like this.

SPICER: I think it is going to be an amazing piece of history, no matter what. Right now you look at -- the eyes of the world, not just the country, are going to be on Cleveland this year and I think we're going to put on a world-class event that people are going to be proud of. I really mean that because it's not just what's going to come out.

The city of Cleveland, which is a largely Democratic city, is so proud to host this convention and put their city on the spot. But more than that, the people that we have there running it are the best in the business. They are going to put on a convention that shows how democracy works. Every vote's going to be seen live on television.

The process -- people are going to learn a lot about how this process work and I think at the end of it they're going to see a united party that has the solutions that are going to move our party into the White House in November.

CUOMO: You think the rules are going to change? That the party's going to suggest at this convention hey, we've got to do things a little bit differently. There's too much disparity among the states. There's too many different layers of voting and how you get delegates.

SPICER: I think what we're going to do is -- the 2016 delegates are going to pass rules for the 2016 convention. I don't know what they're going to do but I don't see some dramatic shift in what's going to happen. Ultimately, it's up to them.

But our party -- look, when you look at what's going on in our party versus theirs, in the state of Rhode Island, which I mentioned today, the Democratic governor, Gina Raimondo, closing 67 percent of the polling places. For all of the heat that our party takes, look what their party's doing.

They're closing polling places and making it harder for people in Rhode Island to vote. I think that's wrong. I think what you're going to see in our party is a party that wants to bring people in. Wants to grow, wants to talk about opportunity, entrepreneurship, how to make families better, how to give people more prosperity.

CUOMO: Sean Spicer, thank you for being on NEW DAY.

SPICER: Thank you.

CUOMO: I know it is tricky for you. Politically, you want it to be fair, you want it to be up and up, but football fan-wise you like to go with Tom Brady and the Patriots --

SPICER: He is America's quarterback.

CUOMO: -- and you're not really known for that.

SPICER: Look, you New Yorkers want to attack America's team, America's quarterback. It's just sad.

CUOMO: Listen, I'm not into attacking. I don't want to deflate your hopes for the football season. Sean Spicer, thank you very much.

SPICER: Let science be your guide.

CUOMO: Wow, I didn't see that coming. All right, so what do you think about this situation. Not the football stuff that you can talk about another time. But, tweet us or go to Facebook and let us know what you think about what's going on right now, all right?

So, coming up we're going to have more coverage, including an interview with the former governor of New York, George Pataki. He has big ideas about what's going on in his party. So let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Cruz and Kasich have just joined forces.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to ask Gov. Kasich's supporters to stand with us.

TRUMP: Lyin' Ted, Kasich -- we call him one for 41.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Trump people are very desperate, fearful.

CRUZ: I understand that Donald will whine. That's what he does.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We stand a very good chance to win. We're in this to the end.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No matter what our differences might be, they pale in comparison to the Republicans.

TRUMP: You look at Kasich, it's disgusting. Do you want that for your president? I don't think so.

PEREIRA: Beyonce's album dropped and speculation has been running wild ever since.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Queen B's new blockbuster the story of a love triangle? Who's Becky with the good hair?

BEYONCE, SINGER-SONGWRITER (singing): He only want me when I'm not there. He better call Becky with the good hair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your new day. It is Tuesday, April 26th, 8:00 in the east. Let's take a look at where the voters are heading this morning. Five northeast states up for grabs. Lots of delegates there to be had. Front-runners Trump, Clinton looking strong, hoping for a sweep tonight.

CAMEROTA: Clinton suggesting that if she wins big tonight it will leave little room for Bernie Sanders to go on. Sanders begs to differ, a case he made right here on NEW DAY just a few minutes ago. So we will check in, again, with our panel of northeast voters about the issues that matter most to them.