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Cruz and Kasich Form Alliance to Stop Trump; Interview with George Pataki; Sanders Discusses Path Forward; Interview with Senator Chris Coons. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 26, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Sanders begs to differ, a case he made right here on NEW DAY just a few minutes ago. So we'll check in again with our panel of northeast voters about the issues that matter most to them. We have super Tuesday number four covered the way only CNN can. Let's begin with Jim Acosta live in Philadelphia. Hi, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Donald Trump appears to be on the fast track to win these Amtrak primaries as they're called today. The GOP frontrunner is heavily favored to pull off a big sweep of all of the states that are up for grabs. But an alliance between Ted Cruz and John Kasich has formed to slow his momentum. Trump has responded by pouring on the insults, a lot like pancake syrup.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Lyin' Ted.

ACOSTA: Sensing an opportunity in the new alliance between Ted Cruz and John Kasich, Donald Trump isn't just smelling blood, he is going in for the kill with a double barreled attack on both Cruz --

TRUMP: You know he is a joker. He cannot do it. So he said let me form a partnership, which I call, what do we call it, it's called collusion, folks.

ACOSTA: -- and Kasich.

TRUMP: He's like a spoiled guy, Kasich. I'm not getting out, mom. I'm not getting out.

ACOSTA: Trump even ridiculed Kasich's eating habits as un- presidential.

TRUMP: You see him eating in the morning. I have never seen. He is stuffing pancakes in his mouth like this.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He has no answer. How do you bring jobs back to America beyond just printing it on a baseball cap.

ACOSTA: With a few one-liners of his own, Cruz is arguing to his supporters the name of the game is denying Trump the magic number of delegates needed to clinch the nomination, which is why Cruz is planning to focus on Indiana where he is stronger while yielding New Mexico and Oregon to the Ohio governor.

CRUZ: What that means is that Indiana gets a straight and direct choice between our campaign and Donald Trump.

ACOSTA: But by Monday afternoon, the Cruz/Kasich alliance was already showing signs of strain, with Kasich refusing to explicitly tell his Indiana supporters to vote for Cruz over him.

GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't tell voters anything. I'm not there campaigning and it speaks for itself.

ACOSTA: Stressing that he has his own strategy to see through, to stay alive until the party meets for its convention this summer.

KASICH: I would like to see an open convention. Ted Cruz would like to see an open convention. And I think Trump would not because he is afraid if he goes to an open convention, he has got no chance of winning.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Now, there is a fresh tweet from Donald Trump this morning, responding to this Cruz/Kasich pact, saying, we'll put it on up screen, "The Cruz/Kasich pact is under great strain. The joke of a deal is falling apart," Trump says, "not being honored and almost dead. Very dumb."

Now, a Trump advisor does tell me that they believe that this Cruz/Kasich plan could have an impact on Indiana, but the campaign does not believe it will stop Trump from getting to that magic number of 1,237 delegates.

One thing we should point out, Kasich is still scheduled to attend a fundraiser in Indiana later on today, and I talked to a Cruz campaign source who told me that they don't mind that Kasich is making that trip, saying, quote, "We are look at this agreement," talking about the pact, "as our best opportunity to beat Hillary Clinton." But Chris and Alisyn, no question about it, the odds are stacked against them, a bit like a short stack. Chris and Alisyn?

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: I like the metaphor that we are running with. He also delivered a fresh tweet. We like those. They're tastier than the still ones. Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: Maybe I'm just hungry.

CAMEROTA: It is breakfast time.

Let's bring in now former New York governor George Pataki. He has endorsed Governor John Kasich. Governor, thanks so much for being here.

GEORGE PATAKI, FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Good being with you.

CAMEROTA: What do you think is going to happen today? Do you think Donald Trump is going to sweep these five states?

PATAKI: I think he's going to have a good day today, but it doesn't mean he's the inevitable nominee. And I think the idea that senator -- or Governor Kasich is going to concentrate on certain states and Senator Cruz on other states is a positive thing for the Republican Party.

CAMEROTA: I mean, they are not -- they don't seem to be as positive as it as you do. It seemed as though they announced it, but they didn't seem to be all in and they seem to have a lot of ambivalence about this alliance.

PATAKI: They're running national campaign, and I saw the clip from Governor Kasich. He is not going to tell people, you know even though you like me, vote for this one. It's just a focus of effort, and I think it's the right decision.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Gov, let's take a step down this road. Why do you think it's the right decision? Would you have ever done this in any of your campaigns, where you couldn't -- you weren't catching the person, the man or woman in front of you, and you would go to the other one and say let's get together to try to stop them?

PATAKI: This is very different. An overwhelming majority of Republicans do not want Donald Trump to be the nominee. About 60 percent of Republican voters say we don't want Trump, but because it is a three way race, he gets 40 percent, the rest get 30 percent, and he wins.

[08:05:00] CUOMO: But that's the people deciding, though, Gov.

PATAKI: Well, ultimately it's a loser for the party because almost two-thirds of Americans have a negative impression of Donald Trump. On the other hand, over 55 percent of Americans have a negative impression of Hillary Clinton. So if the Republicans nominate someone who actually has solutions that make sense and some experience in government, and certainly Governor Kasich has that, then we're going to win the election.

CUOMO: Have you ever heard of this even happening at this level, where the second and third guys decide, we can't win, the third guy really can't even --

PATAKI: Chris, I've never heard anything like this happening before. You have somebody who is a celebrity out there spewing nonsense who is the frontrunner.

CUOMO: He has got millions more votes. He has got 45 percent of the electorate. Your party wants him in terms of how the process is going.

PATAKI: Not a majority of the party. A majority of the party does not want him. CUOMO: But more than the other two guys combined.

PATAKI: And a majority of Americans don't want Hillary either, which is why I think this is the right decision to have an open convention where Republicans can say we want to win this election, we want to bring Americans together. Donald Trump is not the person. Let's find out who is.

CAMEROTA: But let's talk about how that works. So he doesn't make it to 1,237, let's say. But he is the closest one, let's say he is 100 delegates short. Doesn't he get the first vote, doesn't he get second vote?

PATAKI: That means a majority of the delegates were chosen by people other than Donald Trump. He is a minority candidate. And they can go for whoever they think will best lead this country and win the election. And I think it could be a very exciting convention. I think it could be a great convention. You look at conventions in the past, and they've produced people like Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt, and on the democratic side, FDR. It is not a bad thing.

CAMEROTA: That is certainly the positive outlook on how this is all going to go. I mean, you know, Donald Trump says that if that -- it would be rigged. If he were deprived, it would be a rigged system.

PATAKI: So he has a majority of the delegates whose are against him, a majority of the voters --

CAMEROTA: But more delegates than anybody else has.

PATAKI: Because it has been split among delegates. Suppose there were still 17 candidates and he had 21 percent, does that mean everybody else should step aside?

CUOMO: Yes, that's exactly what it means, governor. You win the - field --

PATAKI: Democrats would love that, you know, to see us nominate Donald Trump.

CUOMO: Why would the Democrats love it? You believe those polls are predictive right now when Kasich may or may not have name recognition, Cruz on the national side --

PATAKI: I think things will change, on the other hand, I find it hard to believe Donald Trump is going to change. And I think for him to be able to bring Americans together and win this election, he cannot be the candidate. We just saw in those clips where he is demonizing everybody else and not trying to inspire the American people.

CUOMO: The style points aside, and this may be a statement against personal interests, but in 1994, OK, that was a mood election. George Pataki comes from state government, runs against Mario Cuomo who is this big name.

CAMEROTA: I have heard of him. PATAKI: The mood of the country was against the incumbents, against

what was going on in New York state, against the economy, and people were upset about it and they wanted change. This is a mood election, and even more magnified, and Donald Trump has capture that in your party like nobody else has, by your own admission. He tore through 150 candidates to get where he is right now, and now it seems like your party, even you as a party, you know, as one of the statesmen of your party is discounting that.

PATAKI: No, I totally agree. I think your analysis is exactly right. It is a mood election. People are anti-Washington, anti-incumbents. But it is not simply enough to nominate someone who captures the mood at the moment. Ultimately people are going to look and say can this person lead? Can this person bring us together? Do they have the vision what we need to do as a country to re-grow our economy, to strengthen ourselves globally? And I don't think Donald Trump is the answer to that. I know Hillary Clinton is not the answer to that, which is why with an open convention the Republican Party could come up with someone who captures that mood, yes. You have to do that. But also is capable of governing and has a vision for the future of America.

CAMEROTA: Governor George Pataki, great to get your perspective. Thanks so much for being here on NEW DAY.

CUOMO: It seems so convincing when the governor is saying it. Why is there so much confusion in the electorate? Governor, thank you very much.

On the Democratic side, it's a pivotal day for both contenders. You've got frontrunner Hillary Clinton hoping for a big win tonight to say, look, I'm almost there. This is all but over. And Bernie Sanders is saying not even close. We have a big mission here and it's not even close to being over. We spoke to the Vermont senator about what victory means, what happens if today doesn't go his own way? What would make him merge these two different candidacies? Here's his answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a narrow path, but we do have a path. And the idea that we should not contest in California, our largest state, let the people of California determine what the agenda of the Democratic Party is and who the candidate for the president should be is pretty crazy. So we're in this until the end.

[08:10:00] And I think that when you look at national polling, where in virtually every national poll and every statewide poll, Bernie Sanders runs a lot better against Donald Trump and other Republican candidates than does Hillary Clinton, I think you got some super delegates there who say, you know what, we need a strong candidate. We need a candidate who can beat Trump. Maybe Bernie Sanders is that candidate.

CUOMO: It's not about what you do I think so much people in your party are talking about, but how. You just said we need a strong candidate. At what point do you start saying that Hillary Clinton is a strong candidate? At what point do you start merging into a party first mentality, or do you never do that?

SANDERS: Well, we're in this race to win. And we're in it by running an issue oriented campaign, something that I've tried to do from day one. There are differences of opinion between Hillary Clinton and myself. And I think when you argue out those differences of opinion -- I believe we should raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. She believes it should be $12 an hour. I am against -- I'm for a ban on national fracking. That is not her position. I have opposed all of these disastrous trade agreements. She has supported most of them.

I think, Chris, that debate is a good thing for democracy, for the Democratic Party, gets more people into the process. It results in a higher voter turnout, and Democrats win when there is a high voter turnout. We lose when the turnout is low.

CUOMO: Understood. I want to ask you who has been turning out and what it's meant to your candidacy in one second. But first, Secretary Clinton says, look, Sanders should run his race, stay in as long as he likes, but when I got out, I did so without conditions. I told my people in 2008, you have to be for Barack Obama, we must be one. There were no conditions. Would you support Hillary Clinton as the nominee without conditions?

SANDERS: Well, I think what the democratic process is about, Chris, is going to the convention and arguing about what the platform should be. I happen to believe the United States should join the rest of the industrialized world and guarantee health care to all people --

CUOMO: But if that's not where the party comes out, senator, would you still support her?

SANDERS: Chris, Chris, Chris, media spends too much time speculating. Let's see what happens.

CUOMO: But it is not a --

SANDERS: Chris, the way --

CUOMO: It is not a reach to say that the party won't come out single payer, that they won't come out to ban fracking across the board, that they won't come out to say free college across the board. That's why I'm asking.

SANDERS: Well, then, we'll see what happens. We are going to have, if we don't win this thing, we're going to have a lot of delegates in Philadelphia fighting the fight. And I'm not convinced. And you don't know what the delegates will do. If you do, please tell me. But you don't.

So we are going to go to the American people and say this is the agenda for the working people. Yes, the billionaire class has got to pay more in taxes. Yes, we've got to do away with these corporate loopholes that enable large, multinational corporations not to pay a nickel in federal taxes. And I think that we can win some of these platform fights. The winner, whether it is Secretary Clinton or myself, our job is then to go out to the American people on a platform that makes sense to the working families of this country, and then we win with a large voter turnout.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Very important point of distinction between this race and 2008, Clinton and Sanders. This is a movement that he has. There are issues that are going to matter beyond the man, the message beyond the man. This is different than it was in 2008.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: So that's what is resonating for him.

CAMEROTA: That's such a good point, because it's true with Trump as well. We hear the parallels all the time. What happens is, even if the candidate goes away, the message doesn't go away, and then what?

CUOMO: And you heard him say, we are taking this through to California.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, five states up for grabs in the northeast, a bundle of delegates up for grabs, voting underway in states like Connecticut. Our Brynn Gingras is live in Hartford with more. How are things feeling and looking there?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Michaela. We actually just ran into the secretary of state, Denise Merrill just after she voted this morning. She says the polls, the polling station, everything is going smoothly will polls opened for just over two hours no. We sort of got the same sentiment from people as they were leaving this polling station in Hartford, that it went pretty well.

And we also are getting a little bit of an echo of what we've heard from other voters in late primary states like New York, and that is they actually feel like their vote counts. I talked to one woman who said she grew up in a very conservative area of Connecticut. She said she is a registered Republican, but she came here today, and she kept her Republican status, and voted against the candidate she actually wants to win. So there a little bit of strategy there. And we talked to the secretary of state's office to kind of ask about that. And they said roughly 25,000 people have switched their affiliation since the deadline in January 1.

[08:15:00] So certainly it speaks to a lot of excitement about this particular primary, and we're going to see sort of how that all unfolds later on tonight. Michaela?

PEREIRA: All right, Brynn. Thank you.

Stay with CNN all day for coverage of Super Tuesday primaries today.

CAMEROTA: Here is a CNN exclusive to tell you about. CNN has obtained a list of racially offensive texts allegedly sent by a former San Francisco police officer who is now at the center of an ongoing scandal. Jason Lai's messages were discovered as a part of a probe into sex assault allegations against him.

The texts were homophobic and racist. Lai's attorney says there is no tweets, though, impacted his job. This is the second texting scandal within the department. Fourteen other officers are part of a federal probe into racial bias.

PEREIRA: Staying with news out of California, because you guys are sort of getting me ready for when I go to California.

CAMEROTA: Stop reminding.

PEREIRA: Reminding you.

(ROSSTALK)

CUOMO: This is terrible.

PEREIRA: It's a bear. I had to change the whole flow. Bear on the loose in southern California. It was a cub, spotted on the college campus in Sylmar, which is very close to the Angeles National Forest. That's where the bear came from --

CUOMO: I have sent that bear to where you're going to be living.

PEREIRA: Quite an adventure, running through the streets. Helicopters, police overhead, front yards, backyards, scaled walls, fences. Two hours that bear was on the loose before animal control used a tranquilizer gun on him. It all ends well. He was loaded on to a pickup truck, sent back out into the wild.

They try to tag them so they can find if it is a repeat customer. There was one known as Meatball in the Glendale for years.

CUOMO: That's how they see us, by the way. Meatballs.

What do you see as the motto -- the moral of the story?

PEREIRA: The moral of the story, I'm heading to the land where bears are big news.

CAMEROTA: Roaming on sidewalks. You can't go there. That's dangerous.

PEREIRA: You're worried about my safety.

CUOMO: See, I'm not. Here is what I'm worried about. The moral of the story is you don't leave where you are, where you are supposed to be. The bear was nice in the forest, goes to the city, gets shot.

PEREIRA: Would say to me.

CUOMO: Right here. That's your chair. It's got your name in the back of it. It spelled wrong but --

CAMEROTA: This is one of the five stages of grief.

CUOMO: This is terrible.

PEREIRA: Carry on with the show.

CUOMO: All right. (INAUDIBLE) control room.

Hillary Clinton, hoping sweep in the Northeast primary also make it this close to her all but sealing the nomination. But Bernie Sanders supporters are about a message. What has to happen, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:21:05] CUOMO: If pre-election polls are correct, today is likely to be a Super Tuesday for Hillary Clinton. She could win all five primaries in the Northeast by healthy margins. But that doesn't mean she'll shake the challenge from Bernie Sanders for the Democratic nomination. It doesn't mean it statistically, and it doesn't mean it theoretically.

So, let's discuss with Delaware Senator Chris Coons, endorsed Hillary Clinton.

It's good to have you, Senator.

Let's put up the mathematical part of our discussion. The delegates up for grabs today in these five Northeastern states. Basically 385 delegates at stake. Here's the state of play there.

If Hillary Clinton gets what optimistic estimates suggest she could get tonight, which is about 200 of those 385, she would certainly move closer. But this is not a done deal, especially as we start to head west. Do you agree with that analysis?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE: Well, Chris, I'm excited for the primary today in Delaware and for the four other states. I would agree that Secretary Clinton will almost certainly have a commanding lead after this evening. She already has a strong lead in the delegates needed to be our party's nominee.

And yesterday, she headlined a rally in Wilmington, Delaware, where she really connected with the crowd and impressed me once again as likely the most season, capable and experienced nominee our party has ever fielded. Senator Sanders will continue, likely to be a challenge. I think Senator Sanders has contributed to the debate, and most of this campaign on the Democratic side has been a positive and policy focused debate, compared with the insult-fest on the other side.

I do think, though, Chris, it's increasingly unlikely that Senator Sanders will be our nominee. I hope he's going to begin to reflect how best he can contribute to our convention, to the fall election and to the direction of our party in the longer term.

CUOMO: Let's question the assumption in a couple of levels. If you take out the super delegates, this is a nail-biter. This is really close. This is something where probably neither candidate will be able to get to the number that they need of pledged delegates. So, that's one level of push back. The other one, this is not just a

man, this isn't even Hillary Clinton in 2008. This is a real movement that is around him. Your party is going through something as close to an existential crisis as it has in our lifetime.

What about those two points?

COONS: Well, Chris, I'll suggest that you're right and you're wrong on the point about an existential crisis.

You're right that Senator Sanders has mobilized a grassroots movement. He has raised a great deal of money. He's brought out a lot of particularly young excited voters. And that's a great contribution.

But the differences between Senator Sanders and Secretary Clinton, while real, are tiny compared with the differences that separate them from every Republican nominee. It's a Grand Canyon of difference between them and the Republican nominees.

And the differences on the Republican side between Trump and Kasich and Cruz are truly foundational. So, I think the existential threat is on the Republican side, where they disagree on virtually major issue between the more mainstream Republican candidates, who have served in government before and Cruz and more and more Trump, who says things that are far outside the mainstream, on everything from national security, to tolerance, to economics.

CUOMO: Well, on the GOP side, you have definitional argument going on, who is conservative, who isn't, who are you. You have something very different on your side, which is how much do you want it. When you say they're not that different, maybe, if this were going to be a written exam, where they come out on most things would be about the same.

But in terms of what is your passion to make it so. How much are you willing to do, how much are you willing to fight, that's really what is engendered a Sanders movement. Don't you agree?

COONS: Well, Bernie Sanders gives great speeches. And I've certainly listened to my share of them of six years of service together in the Senate. I think I have a pretty solid grasp of how he views the world.

[08:25:02] The challenge of our party is can we accept the reality and the need to nominate somebody who has experience with working across the aisle. When she was senator for New York, Secretary Clinton achieved a series of bipartisan legislative victories, and there is almost no likely outcome this fall where Republicans will no longer control the House of Representatives.

Frankly, Chris, I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the last six years of dysfunction, where the Republicans, mostly in the minority in my first four years, blocked President Obama and blocked the Democratic majority in the Senate from making any real or substantial progress.

While Senator Sanders may have a vision that's mobilized millions of young Americans to believe in his hope, I think Secretary Clinton shares many of his core progressive values, but also has the seasoned experience that makes it possible to translate that into actual action here in Congress and with our allies around the world.

I'll give you a simple example. A commitment to raising the minimum wage, something they share -- something most Republicans don't believe in. In fact, several of their candidates think we should abolish the minimum wage. We might disagree, whether it should be $12 an hour, $15 an hour, whether we can get it done this year or next year, but they disagree with whether we should even have a minimum wage and whether we should try to raise it.

I think Secretary Clinton's long experience in legislating and leading at the state level, at the federal level, in the executive branch, and legislative branch makes it much more likely that she'll take progressive values and translate them into concrete action for the working people of America.

CUOMO: Senator Coons, appreciate you being on NEW DAY and making the case, as always. And good luck in the primaries today.

COONS: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Mick?

PEREIRA: So, Chris, "Huffington Post" has made no secret of its disdain for the Donald Trump campaign. Well, we're going to ask "The Huff Post" editor-in-chief, Ariana Huffington, about their Trump coverage and her new book. She will join us live on NEW DAY, next.

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