Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Clinton Wins 4 States, Sanders Wins 1; Can Trump Clinch Nomination Before Convention?; Is Indiana Do-Or-Die For Ted Cruz?; Is Cruz-Kasich Alliance A Threat to Trump?; Sanders: Despite Losses "We Are Going Forward". Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 27, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] BRAD WOODHOUSE, PRESIDENT, AMERICANS UNITED FOR CHANGE: Senator Sanders can play such a big role in making sure that we deny Donald Trump the presidency by getting his supporters, eventually, when it's ready, when it's time, when he feels it's ready -- to get his supporters behind Hillary Clinton, and I think those numbers, too, you'll see turn around.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Brad Woodhouse, thank you.

WOODHOUSE: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thanks for being on NEW DAY. Michaela --

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Numbers are sort of the word of the day, right? Donald Trump may be calling himself the presumptive nominee but he doesn't yet have the delegate numbers to back that up. Can he get to 1,237 before the convention? Those numbers -- well, they will be broken down on NEW DAY next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:34:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: A clean sweep for Donald Trump this Super Tuesday. The big question now is is he going to get to the 1,237, that magic number, and avoid a convention battle? CNN political analyst David Gregory here to break down the path and significance.

My brother -- all right, let's look at the picture. Here we have it -- 988, big night for him. Close to 1,000, as he said this morning. And as close as he is, is it dot, dot, dot yet so far?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, he's got more work to do but I think this idea of a contested convention is losing steam. Obviously, you look at this number over here, if I can get right up into your space, 1,237. He's about 250 shy of getting to that so he actually has -- he's the only one who can get there and he's actually got a pretty decent chance.

[07:35:00] Here's what's remaining if you look at the map. In particular, you look at states that are good for Trump, right? California, Indiana, must win. We'll come back to that. West Virginia, and of course, New Jersey. We'll come back to this in terms of the others, but you look at the actual -- CUOMO: What are you trying to do?

GREGORY: All right, I'll do it. I'll do it. OK, here we look at the actual numbers. So, 57 hybrid state in Indiana. That's why it's so important for Cruz to stop Trump there. But if he gets some of those delegates there -- he piles up 51, likely to get all of those in New Jersey. One-hundred and seventy-two in California for Trump. He may not get them all but he's polling well there. That, ultimately, gets him farther along.

CUOMO: Do you think he wins all 51 in New Jersey? The yellow ones, obviously -- what it says on the screen -- they're winner-take-all.

GREGORY: Right.

CUOMO: South Dakota's supposed to be good for Cruz.

GREGORY: Right.

CUOMO: Nebraska's a little bit of a toss-up. New Jersey should be Trump, right, based on what we've seen in the northeast?

GREGORY: Exactly.

CUOMO: Montana should be Cruz, as well.

GREGORY: All right, so if you're Cruz here, right -- let me do this in green since this is red. If you're Cruz you're looking at Washington State, you're looking at Montana, you're looking at the Plains. And, again, you've really got to look at Indiana. Again, the news this morning, Trump doesn't think Mike Pence, the governor there, is going to endorse at all. Cruz would really like him to endorse. What have you got there?

CUOMO: What happens if Cruz takes a beatdown in Indiana?

GREGORY: I think it's just incredibly -- this is really the firewall. If this coalition between Kasich and Cruz is going to work this is the firewall. A socially conservative state. If Trump can get many of those 57 delegates it just puts him in a stronger position because if we go back to what's remaining and you add these numbers, even in places like Oregon, 28, it could be good for Kasich but maybe Donald Trump gets some of them.

CUOMO: It's not winner-take-all.

GREGORY: Right. So, our politics team looking at the possibility of him getting some. Maybe 14 delegates, especially if he can get -- in New Jersey, get all of those. And then you go back to West Virginia where he's polling well, too, at 34. Maybe he gets the lion's share of those delegates.

What does it all mean? John King -- the great John King on the magic wall and the CNN politics team looks at a scenario based on the polling and looked at some of the delegates. Getting Trump to 1,241 that, of course, is over the top at 1,237. To say nothing of the idea of him getting close and being able to negotiate a little bit.

CUOMO: All right, now we do know the good news is the exit polls are uniform and that Republican voters say if you win the primary you should get the nomination. They're not even saying only if you get 1,237, or if you're within 100, or four or five -- they're saying period.

GREGORY: Right.

CUOMO: It's always over 60 percent, so that's good for his case at a convention. But here's what I don't get. We were talking about this earlier this morning. Pennsylvania, all right? Trump romps but those delegates are largely unbound in that state and doesn't this feed -- forget about rigged and the hyperbole of the words that he uses -- but, you vote for me and then the delegate that gets to represent your vote that was for me is unbound and goes to this convention.

GREGORY: Right.

CUOMO: You say well, those are the rules. Is that a good enough explanation?

GREGORY: Probably not, and probably for the next go-around those rules can be changed. And the whole idea of a loophole primary -- maybe it's because Pennsylvania could be in a position to be a kingmaker down the road or maybe try to insist upon a vice presidential pick. But the reality is what you saw, and Trump mentioned this to you earlier on in the program, that they had sign-up cards.

CUOMO: Right.

GREGORY: They were trying to get their slate of delegates to get elected on this night, and because he had such a big win in Pennsylvania he makes a persuasive case to those who are wavering. His margins are what really matter. I think the importance of last night was momentum. He's got a chance.

He's winning in Indiana, which would be a tough state for Trump, but he's winning there. Out to California -- if by June you see that Trump is making even more momentum toward the finish line, California could be really big for him and, of course, could put him over the top, which is what we're projecting.

So, West Virginia, Indiana, California, New Jersey -- there's a lot of sweet spots for Trump here. Only Indiana, where Cruz has got to win, is what gives that anti-Trump movement some running room if he's going to do it.

CUOMO: The delegates and also the perception as we know it.

GREGORY: Yes, exactly.

CUOMO: David Gregory, masterful work on the board and with the mind. Well done, sir. Alisyn -- CAMEROTA: All right, as you guys have been talking about, Ted Cruz says Indiana is favorable terrain for him. Well, we have two guys who know Indiana politics better than anyone. They join us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:43:00] CAMEROTA: Donald Trump won five for five in the Super Tuesday primaries but next week Indiana primary looms large, especially for Ted Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is the one man on earth Hillary Clinton can beat in a general election. And so, the media has told us the candidates in this race, the Republican and Democrat, they're both going to be New York liberals. But I got good news for you. Tonight, this campaign moves back to more favorable terrain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Is he right? Joining us now, Tony Cook. He's investigative and political reporter from the Indianapolis Star. And, Eric Berman, political reporter and statehouse bureau chief from WIBC- FM in Indiana. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here. We're delighted to have you guys because you both have more than two decades of reporting and covering Indiana politics, so you guys can really help us understand what we're looking at next week.

Eric, let me start with you. Is Ted Cruz right? Is Indiana rich terrain for him where he can beat Donald Trump?

ERIC BERMAN, POLITICAL REPORTER, WIBC-FM/NETWORK INDIANA: Well, I think he's certainly right that it's better terrain and we'll find out if he can actually beat him. But Donald Trump has dominated this race by dominating in two regions, in the south and in the northeast. Except for New Jersey and West Virginia in a few weeks, we're done with the south and the northeast.

And when you get into the Midwest he's won in Illinois and Michigan. He's lost in Wisconsin and Minnesota, and in Iowa. We'll see what happens in Indiana. It's a state where if you're Republican if you don't put conservative on your billboards or in your campaign ads people wonder what you're doing, and that only works in Ted Cruz's favor.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Tony, how's that so-called alliance between John Kasich and Ted Cruz playing in Indiana?

[07:45:00] TONY COOK, INVESTIGATIVE & POLITICAL REPORTER, "INDIANAPOLIS STAR": I think there are always some questions about this. These two guys have been going head-to-head for a while and competing with each other, so it was an uneasy alliance to begin with. And then you kind of got a mixed message from John Kasich in terms of what he wants voters here to do, at least his supporters. And so, I think there's a question about how effective that alliance is going to be. It's obviously meant to consolidate anti-Trump support behind Ted Cruz here in Indiana, and that's a tricky balance for Cruz because he's got to appeal to Kasich supporters who are a little more moderate. But at the same time, he's, right now in the polls, splitting the evangelical vote with Trump, so he's got to appeal to those people at the same time. So that's a difficult balancing act for him.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we heard how hard it is for someone who's been running for president to then advise voters not to vote for him. I mean, that's completely counterintuitive and against -- said he was -- said John Kasich didn't want to do that.

But let's look at the latest poll of what's happening in Indiana because it's very interesting. This is a FOX News poll. At the moment, Donald Trump has 41 percent, Cruz has 33 percent. Then there's that John Kasich, 16 percent. So if Kasich bows out, Eric, where do they go?

BERMAN: Well, that's the question and we're going to find out if this is a referendum on Donald Trump or if he can pick up some of that support. I think it's safe to say that he will pick up some of that support. But for all practical purposes this is going to be, for the first time in this campaign, a two-man race between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump in Indiana.

Donald Trump, last night as he has before, said I haven't gotten the majorities until now because there were so many candidates running. Well, the same is true of the other candidates. This is, essentially, going to be head-to-head. Presumably, one of the other of them is going to get over 50. You would assume that most of the Kasich vote would go to Ted Cruz, but it's not just that he has to get the most. He's got to get over 50 percent.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Tony, what do you think the governor, Mike Pence, is going to do? Is he going to endorse anyone?

COOK: We asked him that question yesterday and he said he's still undecided. He did meet with John Kasich yesterday, although there was no photo op associated with that meeting as there was with Trump and Cruz. So, I think he's weighing that still, but increasingly as the clock keeps ticking here, I think it's become less and less likely that he's going to.

CAMEROTA: Obviously, the Democrats are also looking at Indiana. In fact, Hillary Clinton was there yesterday and she met with steelworkers and she talked about one of her top priorities, she said. So let me play that moment for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Steel is crucial to our manufacturing base, crucial to our national security, and I will not let this vital industry disappear. And, as president,I will go to bat for all of our trades. For our steelworkers, our ironworkers, everyone who is absolutely looking for that kind of champion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Eric, how will that go over? Do people believe that Hillary Clinton will be a champion for steelworkers?

BERMAN: Yes, I think they do. And do remember, she was speaking in northwest Indiana, which is not only the steel center of Indiana but also one of the most Democratic regions of Indiana. She can expect to pull a big chunk of the vote out of there and it should serve her well. This is going to be a close race. There are polls there, as well, that show Bernie Sanders in striking distance in Indiana.

But I think the labor vote should be fairly strong in Hillary Clinton's corner, certainly the steel vote. A couple of steelworkers' unions have endorsed Bernie Sanders, including the local that represents Carrier Corporation here in Indianapolis. Something that Donald Trump has made a lot of hay out of on the stump.

But, it's going to be a strong coalition for her. She won the state eight years ago against Barack Obama, although narrowly. We'll see what happens in just six days' time.

CAMEROTA: We sure will. Eric Berman, Tony Cook, thank you.

BERMAN: Alisyn, thanks for having us.

CAMEROTA: Let's get to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Hillary Clinton taking all but one of the northeast primaries, nearly ending Sanders' path to the nomination. How will his campaign change tactics? We'll hear from both sides next on NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:53:00] CUOMO: Did you watch last night? Well, if you didn't, here was a big headline. Hillary Clinton didn't just have a big night last night. It wasn't just that. It's what she said about it. She shifted from just talking about Bernie Sanders as a point of contrast to bringing them together and to looking into the general. Yet, Bernie Sanders say he is still moving forward and he has a plan for the convention.

CNN political contributor and Clinton supporter, Hilary Rosen, is here to discuss. And Ben Wikler, Washington director of MoveOn.org and a Sanders supporter. Ben, let's start with you. What is this path forward for Bernie Sanders after this big victory last night for Hillary Clinton?

BEN WIKLER, WASHINGTON DIRECTOR, MOVEON.ORG: Well, fundamentally, the path forward is about advancing the cause. Advancing the issues that Sanders has fought for throughout his career. He has always been clear that this campaign is about a candidacy and it's also about a movement to change this country. So there are millions of people that have not yet voted. There are

contests from coast to coast and in between. And going forward every vote that's cast for Bernie Sanders helps to advance issues like stopping bad trade deals like the TPP, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, supports the Sanders' movement at the convention, and an effort to change the future of the Democratic Party and the country. That's why it's so crucial to stay in this race.

CUOMO: Hilary Rosen, your take?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I think we know where Sanders is headed. This is a cause, it's not a -- presidentialcampaigns are about two things. They are about math and they are about stories, and the Sanders campaign has now turned into a story which is, frankly, good and helpful. If I were Hillary Clinton I'd be in no rush to start trading insult for insult with Donald Trump.I'd much rather be talking about issues with Bernie Sanders.

So, I think we're going to keep energizing Democrats. I think we're going to go into this convention strong with a fierce determination to keep a campaign about the issues.

[07:55:00] Hopefully, Donald Trump is just going to continue to alienate both Republicans, independents, and we're going to have a strong general election because of it.

CUOMO: You being facetious or do you believe that Hillary Clinton, if she is the nominee and Trump is the nominee -- that's the match-up -- that she will compete on his own level in terms of the personal attacks?

ROSEN: Look, I think it's going to be really hard. I actually think, just from an analytical point of view. This is going to be Hillary Clinton's biggest challenge in this general election and people shouldn't make light of it, which is Donald Trump is going to turn into insult after insult and try and make it funny and do everything he's done over the last several months.

And we in the media are going to be going after her every day. Donald Trump said this about you. What do you think? Donald Trump said that about you. What do you think? So, we're going to be insult parion (ph). The challenge for Democrats and Hillary Clinton, in particular, is going to be to stay above those kinds of daily corrosive insults and try and keep this on the issues that Americans really care about.

CUOMO: OK, so Ben, how do you balance with the Sanders campaign, giving attention to the issues that matter but not weakening the person who could be the nominee coming out the party that you say you support?

ROSEN: Key question.

WIKLER: If you look at the exit polls from Pennsylvania, from Connecticut, the vast majority of Democrats -- I think it was 71 percent in Pennsylvania -- said that this primary has energized them. Fifty-eight percent of Republicans said that it had divided them. So this is a primary that is good for Democrats. It is good for the eventual nominee regardless of who that is.

I think the opportunity now for the Clinton campaign is to fight for the support and enthusiasm of the Sanders' movement the same way that Sanders has been building and growing the enthusiasm for the Sanders' movement all along. And that means taking bold positions on issues that energize people. Give them a reason to turn out to volunteer, to donate, and get involved. I think that's where the focus has to be.

CUOMO: Do you think that Sanders should start helping Hillary more with that instead of saying she's not this, she's not that, she's not this, doing it in a different way? Or do you think that's not what is required?

WIKLER: I think Sanders' focus is going to be on the issues. He issued a release last night saying we're going to fight forward with an issue-based campaign. And the more people see that this election is an opportunity to advance the cause of justice, of breaking up the big banks, of making a country that works for the middle-class, of making public college tuition free, the more those are the stakes of this election I think, the more people get involved.

I think Sanders is absolutely right to keep calling those issues out and making those the central focus of this presidential election year.

CUOMO: Understood. Last question to you, Hilary. Just in terms of fair is fair, in 2008 Hillary Clinton didn't pull out until June and she also fellinto the thrall of winning some late contests, seeing these big crowds, having millions of dollars, still getting a lot of the vote, and she stayed in.

ROSEN: Yes, and she's been very clear about not wanting to try and push Sen. Sanders out for that very reason. I think what you heard from her last night is what she will be saying over the course of the next several weeks and it echoes what Ben said, which is we need to all be in this together. I respect what you're standing for. I respect the people you're bringing into this campaign, and I hope to be able to lead them effectively and we have more in common than we have differences.

CUOMO: Hilary, Ben, thank you very much. Appreciate the perspective on NEW DAY, as always. We're going to have more Super Tuesday coverage ahead, including an interview with the big winner, Donald Trump, last night. So what do you say? Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I consider myself the presumptive nominee.

CRUZ: I've got incredible faith in the common sense of the people of America.

CLINTON: Let's go forward. Let's win the nomination.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to fight this until the last vote is cast. TRUMP: The only card she has is the woman's card. She's got nothing else.

CLINTON: If fighting for women's health care, and paid family leave, and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in.

TRUMP: I call her crooked Hillary. She'll be a horrible president.

CLINTON: There are a lot of negative voices out there, but anger is not a plan.

TRUMP: As far as I'm concerned it's over. These two guys cannot win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Milk, eggs, anything else on the list? Good morning, welcome to your new day. It's Wednesday, April 27th, 8:00 in the east. This is our last Wednesday with the Mic.

PEREIRA: It is. We're always together, it's just that I won't be with you.

CUOMO: Except for when you leave.

CAMEROTA: Yes, because we're not, like next Monday.

PEREIRA: I kind of helped them through this.

CAMEROTA: It's not working.

PEREIRA: They're both very angry.

CUOMO: Enough of that. We can't fix that.