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Interview with Carly Fiorina; Can Cruz-Fiorina Ticket Win In Indiana?; Fiorina On Her HP Record; Trump Lays Out "America First" Foreign Policy; Clinton Vs. Trump On Foreign Policy. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 28, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Indiana is the next battleground for the Republican presidential candidates and Ted Cruz will be campaigning there with his new running mate, Carly Fiorina. Cruz making his choice earlier than any other candidate in recent memory, so what's behind the timing and the surprising move? Let's ask Carly Fiorina, who joins us now. Good morning, Mrs. Fiorina, great to see you.

CARLY FIORINA, TED CRUZ'S RUNNING MATE: Good morning, Alisyn. How are you doing?

CAMEROTA: Doing well.

So, before we get to Ted Cruz's motivation for the timing and for the choice of you, I want to ask about your motivation in agreeing to this role. As you know, after Tuesday's primaries, it is mathematically impossible for Ted Cruz to clinch this nomination. So why did you want to take this on?

FIORINA: Well, first, of course, Donald Trump needs 1,237 delegates and he doesn't have them yet. And I think it's really important that Donald Trump isn't our nominee and then I think it's really important that we beat Hillary Clinton.

I took on this challenge for the same reason I voted for Ted Cruz before I'd ever had a conversation with him about endorsing him, for the same reason I've been out on the trail with him for the last seven weeks. There's a lot at stake. I think the soul of our party is at stake. I think the future of our nation is at stake.

And as I said, when Donald Trump announced his candidacy in June of 2015, he doesn't represent me, he doesn't represent my party. Ted Cruz does represent me. He does represent conservative principles that I believe in and he's also a fighter. And the reason I ran for president is I think we need a conservative in the White House who understands we have too much power concentrated in the hands of few people, both Rs and Ds.

And we need a fighter who's going to actually fight that system. That's what Ted Cruz is, that's what I am. And I'm proud and honored to join him in this fight for the soul of our party and the future of our nation. CAMEROTA: So let's talk about Senator Cruz's motivation and the timing. This is the earliest announcement of a V.P. pick in four decades. I believe the last time we saw something like this was Ronald Reagan in 1976. It didn't work out back then.

But the point is that in the past -- less than 24 hours, people have been saying that they see it as an attention grabbing stunt of Ted Cruz, or you know, a diversionary tactic to sort of pull attention away from Donald Trump's wins. How much of that do you think went into this timing?

FIORINA: None, but let me just say, everything about this election has been unprecedented. So wow, could anyone have predicted the election this cycle? No, I don't think so and most -- many predictions have been wrong. Look, anyone who knows Ted Cruz knows that he is a thoughtful, deliberative man. He doesn't do anything in a rush. And he doesn't do anything in a panic.

And so, this process has been going on within his team, the vetting process, the conversations, for quite a long time. And as I say, we've gotten to know each other very well over the last seven weeks. But I also think the fundamental here is that Ted Cruz wants to make it clear to the voters of this nation and the voters of Indiana and those states that have not yet had a chance to make their choice, that the choice is really clear.

On the one hand, you have Cruz and Fiorina. And on the other hand, you have Trump and Clinton and I put them in the same category because they are two sides of the same coin. Neither one of them will ever fight the system because they are the system.

Hillary Clinton has made her millions selling access and influence and Donald Trump has made his billions buying people like Hillary Clinton off. They will not fight the system. Although they claim to do so, to win a job that they aspire to. They are the system.

CAMEROTA: When you were running for president you, as you know, said some critical things about Ted Cruz. You said that he says one thing in Manhattan, he says another thing when he's in Iowa. You wondered why he didn't renounce his Canadian citizenship sooner. But maybe there was nothing more damning about his efforts -- this was in 2013 -- at the government shutdown. So let me play those for everyone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: I think Ted Cruz's tactics were wrong. There's no honor in charging a hill that you know you can't take, only casualties. Although Ted Cruz maybe got name recognition and money along the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Mrs. Fiorina, is there a parallel to what is happening now? Is he charging another hill, in terms of casualties along the way, for the GOP party now?

FIORINA: Well, you know, I don't agree with my husband about everything. And Ted Cruz and I have differed on tactics. I thought that it probably wasn't going to work to repeal Obamacare when we didn't have a majority in the Senate.

[07:35:00] On the other hand, I think that fight, frankly, forced the Republican Party when they did have a majority, to vote to repeal Obamacare. And I can assure your listeners and your viewers that with President Cruz, Obamacare will be repealed which is what has to happen.

Here's the thing. Donald Trump doesn't have 1,237 deletes. That number represents the majority of the Republican Party. And what has been clear over the course of this election is that the majority of Republicans don't want Donald Trump as their nominee. Neither do I. I think we need a conservative.

See, for some of us, principles matter, policies matter, values matter, character matters. I know that matters to Hoosiers. And so we're going to go fight for principles and policies, and values and character that represent our party and that will make the future of this nation bright instead of dim.

CAMEROTA: I do want to get to Indiana in one second. But first, I just want to ask you one more question about that number 1,237. Because what you're saying, your logic about somebody has to hit 1,237 echoes exactly the sentiment we heard yesterday from Speaker Paul Ryan who was on NEW DAY and said rules are rules.

If somebody doesn't hit 1,237 then, you know, it's an open convention. But in exit poll after exit poll on Tuesday, in many states we saw that voters said that they believe if someone gets close enough they should be the nominee. They were less tethered to the 1,237.

You can see. Just look at this. They believe that whoever got the most votes - this one is in Pennsylvania -- 70 percent of the voters in exit polls, Republicans, thought that that person should be the nominee. So, if you fought that you would be going against the will of the voters.

FIORINA: Well, you know, the delegate system has been in place a long time. And contested conventions haven't happened in a while. But there's nothing untoward about them and nothing unprecedented about them. We're a republic, actually and although maybe Donald Trump is just figuring that out.

You know, if the Steelers -- I know the people of Pennsylvania, my husband's from Pennsylvania -- the beloved Steelers. If the Steelers are on the five-yard line, it's close but it's not a touchdown. So Donald Trump can get close, but it's not a touchdown until you have 1,237 delegates.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about Indiana. That's where it seems that all the Cruz campaign's eggs are in the Indiana basket. Jobs are the number one issue in Indiana. You've been very honest about the jobs that you outsource when you were the head of Hewlett-Packard at the time, to Congress, in 2004. You said there is no job that is America's God-given right anymore. We have to compete for jobs. You were talking about the outsourcing that happened then. Do you fear that your take back then and the outsourcing will come back to haunt you in Indiana?

FIORINA: Well, that's your characterization of how I described it. Look, we have to compete for jobs. We can't just assume jobs grow on trees. We can't assume that the federal government creates jobs. They don't. The private sector does.

And it's true that many jobs that I outsourced from California went where? Texas. Why Texas? Because Texas created an environment where jobs could be created. And you see, that's the problem. In America today with Obamacare, with the EPA, with the tax rates that's the highest in the world, we are crushing job creation.

And in particular, we are crushing small businesses who create two- thirds of the new jobs. So actually, it's important to know where jobs come from. I do. And it's important to understand that you do have to compete for jobs. And it's important, as well, to understand that if the federal government is the only one creating jobs, then the problem is fewer and fewer Americans are paying for those jobs.

That's the problem we've got today. And it's why record numbers of men are out of work. Record numbers of women are living in poverty and record numbers of young people think the American dream is a figment of someone else's imagination and doesn't apply to them.

CAMEROTA: It's not just my characterization that this could be a challenge for you in Indiana. There are many people who are saying this, including conservative radio talk host Laura Ingraham, who said that it could be a real albatross. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAHAM, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Indiana, which I assume Trump is going to hit the globalization as failure theme that he struck today in his foreign policy speech -- the outsourcing issue is a disaster. That is just -- that's not going to be a positive one.

And fairly or unfairly, you know, Fiorina, HP, that outsourcing issue, which was discussed, obviously during her run against Barbara Boxer in 2010, which she lost by about a million votes in California, that became, really, an albatross around her neck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Do you worry it will be a vulnerability in Indiana?

FIORINA: I don't, actually. Because I think far better than Donald Trump, who's outsourced all of his tie manufacturing to China and who hires foreign workers at Mar-a-Lago instead of Americans who want the jobs, I understand exactly why Carrier left Indiana.

Carrier left Indiana because the climate that has been created in America is destroying jobs. And it's interesting that of course, Barbara Boxer, yes, she played an ad in California in 2010. So it was Barbara Boxer's characterization of my record. I'll stand on my record. I'll run on my record. And I can explain in great detail why jobs leave California and go to Texas, and it has to do with policies.

CAMEROTA: OK.

FIORINA: And tax rates.

CAMEROTA: Mrs. Fiorina, you did something unusual on the campaign trail yesterday in accepting the nod for the running mate. You sang. So let's play a little portion of this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: I know two girls that I just adore.

(LAUGHTER)

I'm so happy I can see them more. Cause we travel on the bus all day. We get to play, we get to play.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. That was adorable, first of all. And you have -- you admirably kept a tune. Will there be more singing in the Cruz campaign going forward?

FIORINA: Well, on the bus, for sure. You know, look, Alisyn, this is a -- campaigning is tough. But campaigning can be joyful as well. And I think every day should be a joyful experience. And for me, singing to little girls, or singing to my granddaughters, or singing to my dogs is a source of joy.

CAMEROTA: That is great. Carly Fiorina, thanks so much for joining us on NEW DAY. We appreciate it.

FIORINA: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz on the attack. Is their nasty primary battle hurting the GOPs and jeopardizing control of Congress? A former Republican senator weighs in next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:46:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump swept up here in the northeast and he got closer to that 1,237 magic number. And then he debuted his "America First" policy speech about foreign policy. How did it work? Let's talk with former Republican senator from Oklahoma, Dr. Tom Coburn. Doc, Senator, it's good to see you again.

DR. TOM COBURN (R), FORMER OKLAHOMA SENATOR: Good morning. How are you? CUOMO: I'm doing well. So, what do you think about the state of play in your party? Do you believe that Donald Trump is the right man to bring your party together?

COBURN: Well, I think he's going to be the nominee. It seems obvious to me at this time. It's going to be pretty hard to stop him. What I would say is he's probably wearing on people where they're starting to see something besides superlatives and starting to see some substance. And so, I think it's something that we're going to see over time. Don't know.

CUOMO: Would he get your vote?

COBURN: Not yet. I've got hear -- you know, he's said a lot of things but he's not told the how of a lot of things, and I want to hear the how's. Politicians routinely claim a whole lot but is there any meat behind it, and that's what I'm waiting to hear. Part of what he said yesterday in terms of his foreign policy speech -- part of it was very good.

CUOMO: Which part?

COBURN: Well, we've been subsidizing NATO for years under agreements that they, otherwise, are supposed to actually carry their load. Every time we do that we lessen our capability to be there in the future, and so I like that. I like talking to our friends. If you have a friend that uses you and never carries their load, they're really not your friend.

And so, I think the very fact that if we're going to have a pact, and I think we need a pact, then it ought to be on a participatory basis and everybody ought to carry their fair share. And for too long we've carried the fair share.

CUOMO: It hits close to home for me, Senator. It's how my wife describes me. She says I'm asking for things all the time and I don't carry my load. So I'm going to immediately move on to a different subject. What do you think of Ted Cruz picking Carly Fiorina? Do you think that this is just a political gamble to distract or do you think that this is a good pairing?

COBURN: Well, I can't answer that because I don't know what their motivations are. I have the utmost respect for Carly Fiorina. She's a brilliant woman. I knew her well during her Senate race. She's quality, she loves this country, she's willing to compromise and make things work, so I think she's a wonderful pick.

I can't answer the question of whether this is a fourth quarter defense position or it's an offensive position that says hey, wake up America. We have a very talented female here that could actually do a good job for our country.

CUOMO: You seem to have a higher estimate of her than what I've heard you say about Sen. Cruz in the past. Do you believe she's the stronger part of that pair? COBURN: No, Ted Cruz -- look, Ted has done everything he's told the people of Texas he would do. It's how he does it -- how he stepped on toes is his problem. Ted's a nice guy. I don't have any personal problems with Ted, but strategies and tactics matter and how you get to where you want to get to matters.

And so, I applaud that he's done this. I think she's a fine fit for him and we'll see what happens. But the numbers are getting pretty tight now that it's going to be hard to have anybody but Trump, probably, as the nominee.

CUOMO: Now, you had come out for Marco Rubio. He, of course, is no longer in the race but having suspended his campaign he gets to keep his delegates -- more than John Kasich has right now, about 170 or so. What do you think should happen with those delegates?

[07:50:00] COBURN: Well, I think if they're pledged to Marco and he has any influence, he has the right to say here's what I think, but maybe he releases them. Again, Ihaven't had that conversation with Marco.

I think Marco would have made a great presidential candidate and I assure you, Marco would have won. Nobody could've beaten him and it's because he appeals to cross-sections of America in a way that touches people heart, not just their mind.

CUOMO: Senator, doctor, Tom Coburn. Always great to have you on NEW DAY. Look forward to having you again, sir.

COBURN: Great to be with you. God bless you.

CUOMO: And you as well. Alisyn --

CAMEROTA: All right, Donald Trump branding Hillary Clinton's time as Secretary of State as a failure, but do the party front-runners actually have some common ground on foreign policy. We'll look at that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:54:00] CAMEROTA: Donald Trump attempting to look more presidential with a scripted speech outlining his "America First" foreign policy. Trump blasting the Obama-Clinton doctrine which he says "blazed a path of destruction." But, where do Trump and Hillary really differ on foreign policy?Let's dive into that with Aaron David Miller. He's vice president of New Initiatives and a distinguished scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center.

Aaron David, great to have you here with us. Just to remind everybody of your phenomenal credentials, you, of course, have been a Middle East negotiator for lots of different presidential administrations, so it's wonderful to have you walk us through what we heard yesterday. What did you think of Donald Trump's foreign policy speech?

[07:55:00] AARON DAVID MILLER, V.P. & DISTINGUISHED SCHOLAR, WOODROW WILSON INTERNATIONAL CENTER: You know, the good news is, Alisyn, I think that on paper it creates a benchmark and a set of metrics by which to judge whether or not he will remain consistent -- non- contradictory in some of his positions.

But I found the speech, frankly, in many respects, rambling and really incoherent. It was kind of a collection of bromide slogans, unrealizable objectives all tied together --

CAMEROTA: What's that -- what part is unrealizable?

MILLER: I mean --

CAMEROTA: What did he say that's undoable?

MILLER: What Donald trump seems to be saying, and remember, campaigning is like living in a galaxy far, far away. Meanwhile, back on planet earth you have to govern. So it's highly arguable whether or not any of the positions that Trump has advanced during the campaign would survive should he become president and have to deal a very imperfect world.

But, what he essentially is saying is trust me. I'm the world's greatest negotiator. I know how to deal with Putin and I will deal with him. I know how to destroy ISIS. I won't tell you how or why or when, but I have the answers. And I'm the one who understands the economic realities of kind of a populous, protectionist economic policy.

So, nobody was expecting a detailed roadmap but what we got, essentially, again, was a set of bromides and previously expressed campaign positions tied together into well-ordered paragraphs and, frankly, that's not enough. What I find so intriguing, though, is that there really is a common problem. Whether it's an R or a D, or a he or a she who sits in the White House in 2017, they're going to face a world.

Trump or Hillary Clinton -- that's basically divided into migraine headaches and root canals. And the imperfect options that they're going to face, I would argue, on several key issues may well -- I know I don't want to break the bank of credibility here, but it may actually produce responses on several key issues that have Hillary and Donald Trump sharing some common ground.

CAMEROTA: OK, that's interesting. So where do you see their common ground?

MILLER: Well, I think there are three issues. One, of course, is what to do about the Islamic State.

CAMEROTA: OK, let me stop -- sorry, Aaron. Let me stop you right there because I want to juxtapose the things that Hillary and Donald Trump have said about that in just sort of a little nugget for you. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It cannot be an American fight and I think what the president has consistently said, which I agree with, is that we will support those who take the fight to ISIS.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to be unpredictable and we have to be unpredictable starting now, but they're going to be gone. ISIS will be gone if I'm elected president, and they'll be gone quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, Aaron, so we need allies, Hillary Clinton says. We need unpredictability, Donald Trump says. What do you hear?

MILLER: Well, Trump says the same thing about allies. He's threatened to boycott Saudi and Arab oil if the Arab states don't deploy their own ground forces to combat ISIS. And Hillary Clinton seems to be saying not that she's going to boycott Saudi oil, but that the Arab states have to do more.

On the unpredictability factor, that's fine. But, one of Trump's points yesterday was reassurance of allies and to maintain a certain level of consistency, so it was a contradiction. I mean, how unpredictable are you going to be?

So, I don't think there's much that separates them. Both are against nation-building, both are against the deployment of scores of thousands of ground forces. And both, ultimately, I suspect, will see the Islamic State as counterterrorism problem, not as a trillion- dollar social science project in an effort to fix Iraq and Syria and their politics.

CAMEROTA: One last question about ISIS because Donald Trump said something that a lot of people like and respond to. He is uncomfortable with President Obama telegraphing plans to send more troops. Telegraphing plans to send 250 special ops soldiers to Syria. Is that fair? Is it possible to do these things in a more quiet way?

MILLER: I think if you're talking about discreet military actions to kill terrorist leaders, to rescue American hostages, yes, discretion and secrecy is critical. But you cannot sustain a policy in a Democratic polity with an intrusive media and a Congress, frankly, that deserves to be informed about what the executive is doing, by basically acting quietly when it comes to the deployment of thousands of American forces.