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Donald Trump Live On New Day, "We Are Going To Win In Indiana"; The Donald Trump Interview Reaction. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired May 02, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now on the phone the Republican man in command, front-runner Donald Trump. Mr. Trump, can you hear us?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): I can. How are you, Chris?

CUOMO: Good. Good to have you this morning. A big day tomorrow, Indiana. Let me ask you. If it goes your way and you win the state, what is your best pitch to Sen. Ted Cruz to get out of the race?

TRUMP: Well, it's really the unity of the party. I think it's very important. We are going to win. Polls are just now coming out where I'm tied with Hillary. One just came out where I'm ahead of Hillary, and I haven't started on Hillary yet. So, we're starting to do really well, but I haven't focused on Hillary at all and yet, you know, we're really doing well.

I think it will be, you know -- look, they said her record, based on what she's done -- I think it should very interesting but it should be a Republican win and it may be an easy one. But we really have to get together and unify. I think it's very important.

CUOMO: He says this guy is only going to be in it at the convention for one vote, if that. That he believes he'll stop you from getting to 1,237, and even if he doesn't look at Arizona, he says. I went in there with my organization and we got the lion's share of delegates.

Even though the state went for Trump, these delegates are going to be with me at the convention because they want me at the GOP, not Donald Trump. Your response?

TRUMP: Well, the voters don't want him. I'm leading by millions of votes. I'm also leading by hundreds of delegates. But, I'm leading by just literally millions of votes, as you know, and by the time it ends in California we'll have -- probably be leading by five million votes. I've already broken the record, or very close to breaking the record -- the all-time vote record.

The bosses are trying to run it. You know, it's a rigged party. It's a whole rigged situation. The bosses, like in Arizona -- the bosses -- I win Arizona in a landslide. I beat Cruz so badly it's almost ridiculous, and then the bosses have delegates -- they have a delegate -- a crooked delegate system where they go in and they try and get delegates so they play games.

But, I'll you what, the voters wouldn't stand for it. You know, when you win by millions of votes -- and that's what I've been saying. It's a rigged system. The bosses want to pick whoever they want to pick. What's the purpose of going through the primary? So, we have a lot of strength in that situation, also.

You know, we've been winning a lot also. But, honestly, it really should be about the votes. And if you look at delegates I'm leading by hundreds of delegates also.

CUOMO: Understood. At some point we'll put up that chart for people we can see. The challenge for you seems to not solidify your base. You have a solid 40-plus percent of the party that is with you, as you like to joke. You say I could say anything, these people would be with me. But it's the others. It's the people you're calling the party bosses.

A lot of part of the faithful of your party and then expanding beyond that if you become the nominee into the general election. And that's why there's so much talk about the words. The language that you choose and the harshness of the messages that often come across, whether it's the woman card or it's saying China's raping the United States. This is the type of language that gives people pause. Are you evolving at all in your thinking about what comes out of you on the trail?

TRUMP: Well, I think that, you know -- I haven't heard anything negative really recently. Frankly, as far as China's concerned, everyone knows that's true and it gets the point across. You know, Hillary was talking about she controls or handles men that get off the reservation when actually she doesn't do a very good job with men that get off the reservation if you look at her record.

CUOMO: What does that mean? How does she not do a good job? Explain that to me.

TRUMP: I think I'm saying what people want to hear. I think I'm saying, you know, obviously, I have a message out there that's getting through loud and clear. I'm doing very well with the voters. I'm winning by a lot and if you look at New York, where you come from, I got almost 62 percent of the vote.

We have to remember there's three candidates here. I mean, you know, I'm running against three. When you get 62 percent of the vote against one candidate that's a lot.

CUOMO: Right.

TRUMP: But, you know, we have three people here and for me to be breaking 50 percent all the time -- so, I think you're numbers are wrong. I think what's happening is now that we're down to a smaller number of candidates, I'm getting 50, 60, 70. If you look at Maryland. If you look at all of these states that I won last week, and I won five of them, including Delaware, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Connecticut. CUOMO: Right. No, I understand your point.

TRUMP: You look at the numbers. I'm breaking 60 percent all the time and we have -- you know, I'm competing against two other people.

[07:35:00] CUOMO: Right, but this isn't about the numbers. Our numbers, as you know, are always spot-on in terms of how we analyze it. I'm talking about getting bigger than that and going into the people who have questions about you within your party and questions about you if you were to be the nominee.

You said Clinton's statement that I know how to deal with men who go off the reservation -- you said two things about that. One, you said, no she doesn't. She doesn't do well with those men. I want you to explain that.

You also said something, that I thought was curious, to FOX yesterday. You said I think Hillary Clinton saying that to me or about me is inappropriate. How can you find her saying that inappropriate, but saying that China's raping the U.S. is -- that's appropriate for you to say that she's playing the woman card. That that's appropriate for you to say, but her saying she knows how to deal with men who go off the reservation, that's inappropriate. How do you see that?

TRUMP: Well, she's taking -- she has been taking a lot of heat for that statement, not from you, obviously, but they do call it the Clinton network. But she has taken, from others, a lot of heat having to do with that statement and I think it's a very harsh statement.

It's basically, you know, like I can handle men. Don't worry about me, I can handle men. If somebody said that -- if I made that statement about women there'd be front-page headlines.

CUOMO: Yes, you basically did.

TRUMP: The way she talks about I can handle men, you know, who get off the reservation.

CUOMO: You said all she's got is that she's a woman.

TRUMP: I think it's a very demeaning statement. Now, I won't even bring up the fact that the Indians have gone wild on that statement. You know that, OK? The Indians have said that that statement is a disastrous statement and they want a retraction. I'm not going to get into that but that has taken place.

CUOMO: Well, you just did get into it. I had not really heard that.

TRUMP: I'm not bringing that up. I'm saying that has been taking place, big league.

CUOMO: You did bring it up. You did just bring it up.

TRUMP: But, I think it's a very -- I think it's a very nasty statement to make and if I made that statement it would be a big, big story. CUOMO: But what I'm saying is maybe it should be, though, right?

When you say she's playing the woman card, that's all she's got is being a woman, that doesn't play well. But it just --

TRUMP: Well, I think she's letting other -- no, I think she's playing -- somebody said I wonder was that good or bad that Trump said that. Let me tell you something. She's playing the -- are you ready? Are you listening? She is playing the woman card, and if she didn't play the woman card she would have no chance whatsoever of winning, and she would have absolutely no chance of winning.

She's playing the woman card. And I watch her speeches, and I watched what she said, and we're right now making a list of many, many times where it's all about her being a woman. And, frankly, she doesn't do very well with women.

And if you look at what happened recently over the weekend and over last week -- over the last two weeks, including New York, I won with women by vast, vast majorities. I mean, I was way, way up with women, far above anybody else in the exit polls of the recent elections. So, you know, I think -- I think we're doing fine.

Look, women want strength, they want security, they want to have strong military, they want to know that our country is being protected. They want to know about women's' issues -- women's health issues. I'm going to do a better job for women than Hillary can do.

CUOMO: What do you make of the protests that were in Los Angeles yesterday where you had all these workers there out in the streets and they were carrying this big balloon with you, like a Thanksgiving day type balloon, of you as an effigy holding a KKK mask?

Those are workers -- a lot of them are Latino. It's in California which is, of course, going to be a really important state. What do you say to those people?

TRUMP: I saw nothing other than -- what I did see is where I was, the other day, where you had some protests, and frankly --

CUOMO: It's on your screen right now.

TRUMP: -- it could have been put down much more easily, and we had 30 -- I'm in Indiana right now and I was here yesterday, too, where we had -- oh, now I see it up on your screen.

CUOMO: Yes.

TRUMP: I did not see that. Gee, I hope I look better than that. I did not -- I did not see that yesterday. I did see --

CUOMO: What's your message to them?

TRUMP: I did see, Chris -- I did see 31,000 people show up to my rally in Costa Mesa. I did see tremendous crowds at every rally I had three days ago, or two days ago, in California. We had 31,000 people. We broke a record. And we brought out the families of people whose children and wives and, you know, husbands were killed by illegal immigrants. Viciously, violently killed by illegal immigrants that came into this country totally illegally without documentation. And we had 31,000 people and it was a lovefest. There was not one hand raised in protest of 31,000 people.

So I think you're reading the equation wrong, actually. Now, I see right there they're having a pledge, you know --

CUOMO: I'm just asking you about what happened in the street and I'm giving you an opportunity --

TRUMP: But I can have a much -- if I wanted to I could have a much bigger parade than that, believe me. And a lot of these people -- a lot of the people -- I can only tell you the people that showed up because Ididn't see that. The people that showed up -- a lot of the people that showed up to protest the other day, these were thugs and you saw what they did to the police car. And they wear masks.

[07:40:00] And the police told me these are thugs. They show up to different rallies, they wear masks. And anytime they're wearing masks there's a reason for them to wear masks.

CUOMO: There's definitely an element of that. We've been in those crowds before. There are outside agitators and even if they're not outside, anybody who's doing what's happening on our screen right now is a criminal. That's all it is.

TRUMP: Right.

CUOMO: What was taking place in Orange County -- as soon as you do that, whether you were protesting or not before, you're now a criminal. But, I want to give you a chance. What do you say to those people?

TRUMP: Well, I'm getting crowds, Chris -- I'm getting crowds like they've never seen before. You know that. You reported it.

CUOMO: I totally understand.

TRUMP: You had your helicopters flying over the stadium that was packed.

CUOMO: Your popularity is not in question. What I'm saying is, what do you say to those people that aren't in the Trump tent? The people who were in those streets who were workers, who were in this country who had that effigy. What do you say?

TRUMP: Well,I want to get them in -- I do want to get them in my tent. I will tell you, I'm going to create jobs. I'm going to bring jobs back to this country. Our country does not have jobs. We have a phony unemployment rate of 5 percent and it has to do with the fact that they use that statistic in order to make the politicians look good. The rate we really have is close to 20 percent, and maybe over 20 percent, or you wouldn't have the kind of crowds I have. I mean, I'm sure they like my stance on the border and the military and everything else, but it still is about jobs and the economy. And if people look for a job and they have to quit after four or five months -- they stop looking for a job -- and they're considered statistically employed. And it's ridiculous.

No, I think that a lot of these people are going to join my campaign. I think a lot of the Bernie Sanders young people are going to join my campaign, and I see it all the time because --

CUOMO: What can you say to the --

TRUMP: -- nobody's stronger on trade than me. I mean, our country is being ripped off by China --

CUOMO: Why is nobody --

TRUMP: -- and every country on trade.

CUOMO: Mr. Trump, let me just ask you to explain it for a second.

TRUMP: I mean, horribly ripped off. And I think Bernie Sanders' people are going to join my campaign.

CUOMO: Sanders --

TRUMP: Frankly, the Democrats have treated -- they have treated them very, very badly. The Democrats have really treated Bernie Sanders and all of his followers unbelievably badly. It's a rigged system. Just like the Republicans have a rigged system. I have a rigged system. I mean, I'm winning in the votes and every time you win a state you have to go fight for all these different things. It's a rigged system that's run by the bosses.

CUOMO: What do you tell these people, whether they are the Berners or the people who are in the streets out there in Los Angeles, the workers, when you say you want to be with me? Nobody's stronger on trade, nobody's going to bring back jobs here. Just give me two things that you can tell those people as to how and why that's true.

TRUMP: Well, the two things are jobs, OK, because you mentioned jobs. We're going to bring jobs back --

CUOMO: How?

TRUMP: -- and we're going to do something else. We're going to keep jobs in this country.

CUOMO: How?

TRUMP: We're not going to have Carrier air conditioning think they're going to move to Mexico, make air conditioners, send them back here, lose all these jobs, --

CUOMO: How?

TRUMP: -- pay no tax when they're sent, and hurt our country. So that's not going to happen.

CUOMO: How?

TRUMP: So, we're going to do that. But, you know, the other thing -- how? It's very simple. We're going to put -- we're going to make them pay. There's going to be consequences. You're not just going to take your company, move to Mexico, make air conditioners, and now start selling them in our country and not have consequences.

The consequences are a tariff or a tax, and if you don't do that you'll lose all of your businesses because our businesses are moving out of our country and they're moving out fast. You know, Iwon New York State by a landslide. I won everything by a landslide and every single place I go to I almost don't need -- you know, I go, give me the statistics on New York State or give me the statistics on Pennsylvania or Maryland. It's all the same. I don't even need the statistics anymore.

It's -- manufacturing is gone. The percentages aren't even that different. Forty-five, 50 percent of the manufacturing is gone. I almost don't have to ask the people to give me statistics because after looking at 20 of them in a row they're almost all the same, other than some are doing worse than others. In New York State they got clobbered because the jobs have left.

NAFTA has been a disaster for our country. NAFTA has to be totally gotten rid of. Something has to happen with NAFTA. What happened -- NAFTA, signed by Bill Clinton, has been a total disaster for the United States. Like an economic disaster almost like we've never had before. It has wiped out big sections of our manufacturing in this country and moved to other places.

So, all of that will change with me and what I tell people is you're going to have jobs. It's very simple. Now, in addition to that, we're going to have a strong military. We're going to have so many other things. We're going to have strong borders. We're going to stop the drugs from coming across our borders.

These are all things -- we're going to build a wall and Mexico's going to pay for the wall, by the way, just in case you have any questions. But these are things that I will do that nobody else is going to be able to do. No politician is going to be able to do it because they're controlled by people and because they don't have the confidence to do it.

CUOMO: So, let me ask you something else. Not just the wall -- remember, you're going to have to fill in all the tunnels also because the tunnels are far more of a traffic concern in terms of things getting her illegally than any wall.

TRUMP: Do you know how easy -- do you know how easy that is for a person of confidence? I mean, to fill in the tunnels, Chris, in all fairness -- CUOMO: It's really hard.

TRUMP: I can get people to fill in the tunnels so quickly.

[07:45:00] CUOMO: I'm actually heading down there right now to the place where a lot of them originate and I have to tell you, it's a bigger task but that's something that we need leadership for. There's no question. Did you watch any of the White House Correspondents' Dinner? Did you have any take on --

TRUMP: Yes, I did. I did.

CUOMO: -- what the president said about you? Was it funny?

TRUMP: I thought it was fine. I mean, Ithought he was fine. This is his last time and --

CUOMO: Why didn't you tweet about it? I was shocked.

TRUMP: -- I thought he did an OK job.

CUOMO: Why didn't you tweet about it? I don't know if people watched it here. We'll play a small clip of what he said at the dinner and get your response. Here's what the president said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Although I am a little hurt that he's not here tonight. We had so much fun the last time. (LAUGHTER) And it is surprising. You've got a room full of reporters, celebrities, cameras, and he says no. Is this dinner too tacky for the Donald?

They say Donald lacks the foreign policy experience to be president. But in fairness, he has spent years meeting with leaders from around the world. Miss Sweden, Miss Argentina, Miss Azerbaijan (LAUGHTER).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Response?

TRUMP: Well, I thought it was fine. I mean, honestly, I've heard it -- I've heard it before. But I do deal with leaders around the world. I built a great company and I deal around -- right now we have hundreds of deals being negotiated all over the world by my company.

And I deal with presidents, and I deal with prime ministers, I deal with everybody. I probably have more experience than virtually anybody looking at this office and I make money. I've made a lot of money doing it. I've built a tremendous company and made a lot of money.

CUOMO: You think you have more experience dealing with --

TRUMP: But, I know he's having fun and he's joking, and I think it's fine. I thought it was fine. I'll tell you the reason I didn't go, though, if you have a second --

CUOMO: Please.

TRUMP: -- because I've never really expressed this. The time I went where he went after me and then the comedian went after me, I'll tell you what. Honestly, I had a great time.

CUOMO: Great time? You didn't look like you were having a great time.

TRUMP: Here's what I said. The president --

CUOMO: 2011 this was, for you at home.

TRUMP: -- is joking. I had a great time. I told that to the press as I was leaving. Did you like it? I said I had a great time. He did well -- everything -- I had a fantastic time. The next day they said Donald Trump had a miserable time. He felt humiliated. I didn't feel humiliated. I had a great time. So, the press is very dishonest. They don't report the truth and, therefore, it's easier just not to go.

CUOMO: So that's why you didn't go because you felt that it wouldn't be reported accurately?

TRUMP: Well, because I felt that I will have a great time if I go. I would have loved to have gone. I felt that I would have a great time if I go, but not matter how great a time -- I knew they, obviously, would be talking about me. No matter how great a time that I would have, it wouldn't matter. They will say Donald Trump was humiliated. Donald Trump had a miserable time, you know.

That's what they did last time. I had really a great time. Hey look, you had the President of the United States spending much of his speech on me and I even said to my wife, this is sort of amazing. I mean, the president's devoting so much of his time to me, it's really amazing. And I had a good time and he was very respectful. It was good.

But the next day -- and I told that to the press. I had a great time. The next day in every paper -- Washington Post, New York Times, they said Donald Trump felt humiliated. He had a terrible time. And I said they're just lies. They are so dishonest.

I'll tell you, the one thing -- the one group that lies more than lyin' Ted Cruz is the press, the media. They really are bad. They really are dishonest and that's why their poll numbers with people in the public are so low. They are so totally dishonest.

CUOMO: Well, certainly you feel like that when you don't like what they say. When you do like what the media says then you go out of your way to say that you do.

TRUMP: No, no. You know what? You know what? I'm a big boy. When I do something that's off I don't mind being criticized. But, you know, they make things up. They literally make up -- they make up things that you said. They cut you off in half-sentences so it's a totally different meaning from what you said.

CUOMO: Let me give you a chance to clean up one thing before I let you go.

TRUMP: Hey look, the press is extremely dishonest. I've gotten used to it, but the press is so dishonest, especially the political press, like just about nothing I've ever seen can compete with it. It is -- it is a disgrace what's happened.

CUOMO: All right, so let me give you a chance to clean something up here before you hear the reactions to it. You've said in reaction to the president's joke, yes, it's funny but, you know, I actually deal with a lot of people around the world. I have more experience with that than anybody with their eyes on this job right now.

There is going to be immediate pushback from Hillary Clinton saying I was Secretary of State. I traveled more than any Secretary of State in history dealing with world leaders on the highest level. Donald Trump says he has the same experience that I do? You're going to get pushback on that. Do you want to revise the statement or do you believe that --

TRUMP: Now, you're creating -- let me tell you, I'm not getting pushback. What's pushback? Even something I said 10 seconds ago, I'm getting pushback? You're creating the phony pushback. Let me just say something.

CUOMO: No, hold on a second. You said -- I'm saying you think you have more experience than she does.

[07:50:00] TRUMP: I have tremendous security dealing very successfully with other countries. Hillary Clinton dealt with other countries, too. And one thing I give her credit for her, she did a lot of traveling. But, look at the results. Syria, Benghazi -- look at her results. All of those results are terrible.

I've made a fortune going out of this country. I've made tremendous amounts of money dealing outside of this country. Look at what happened with Hillary Clinton. What did she get? With all the traveling she did, look at the deals we have. And then you look at Obama with the Iran deal and all these other terrible deals.

So, you know, don't tell me about that. There's no pushback. I have done a lot of traveling. I've done a lot of deals outside of this country. I deal at the highest level and that's good, and as far as I'm concerned in think I have great experience.

CUOMO: Donald Trump, appreciate having you on the show to make the case to the NEW DAY audience, as always. Good luck in the primary tomorrow, sir.

TRUMP: OK, thank you very much.

CUOMO: Take care. Reaction to the interview, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [07:54:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, you just heard from Republican front-runner Donald Trump. Let's discuss it with CNN political commentator and host of CNN's "SMERCONISH", Michael Smerconish. Hi again, Michael.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: What jumped out at you from Chris' interview?

SMERCONISH: The criticism of the process as being crooked or rigged or the bosses are out to get Donald Trump. I think at this stage it's increasingly likely that he gets to 1,237. I think passing 1,000 delegates on his way to 1,100 and now the poll that you've discussed where he's up by 15 in Indiana, makes it increasingly likely he gets there.

But, his constant criticism of the party role, in the same way that Bernie Sanders, Alisyn, as we discussed, is critical of superdelegates, it raises this fundamental question. If you're a party leader and you think that you're headed to get shellacked in the fall -- that you're headed for a train wreck with your nominee, what are you supposed to do?

Are you supposed to just roll over and go along with the populous movement, or are you supposed to stand up and say what a minute? We've been here before. We want to win this thing so maybe we should reevaluate.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: See Michael, I think Donald Trump keeps on saying that because he thinks it's working, and there is some evidence to that effect. If you look at the poll -- the Wall Street Journal/NBC/Marist poll over the weekend, people hated the John Kasich-Ted Cruz agreement there. They see that as trying to rig the system.

The New York Times had a story where they were talking to people in a Cruz campaign office and they were getting pushback from voters they were calling saying I'm not sure about Ted Cruz. He's trying to rig the system. It's beginning to resonate with voters. I'm not so sure he thinks he can change anything right now. I think he thinks it's a winning argument.

SMERCONISH: The clumsy way in which Kasich and Cruz tried to pull that off played right into Donald Trump's hands. I mean, as he said, they can't even negotiate a deal like that. And to ask each of them, meaning Cruz and Kasich, is to get two different answers as to what, if anything, was even negotiated.

So I agree with you. It's inured to Trump's benefit and I saw the same survey which says, by the way, in Indiana, most likely, Republican voters -- they want the candidate who gets the most votes to end up with the nomination, regardless of whether he's at 1,237.

CUOMO: Every state.

SMERCONISH: I'm just saying that there is -- there is a defensible argument for superdelegates on both sides playing a role.

CUOMO: Every state. Every state where we do the exit I'd never seen one that has an outcome otherwise. They say whoever wins the primary should get the nomination, whether they're close to 1,237 or not. I think that this issue, more than others -- Donald Trump will say it himself. He just said it on out air. I tell people what they want to hear.

Now, you will argue all day whether that's real leadership or not, is a demagoguery or is it -- whatever -- you know, that's going to be part of this general election if he gets the nomination. But, Michael, he's right about the process.

These state laws are weird. I go state-by-state, they're often odd. It seems that at a minimum they're tilted in favor of the party establishment as opposed to the voters who are going to the polls. I mean, is the analysis of it as simple as that?

SMERCONISH: If you, Chris -- if you could have asked, in 1972, Democratic voters do you think that the nominee should be someone for whom you voted, they'd have all said absolutely, of course it should be. And then look what happened to McGovern.

CUOMO: Yes.

SMERCONISH: So, what I'm saying is I get, and it's in his advantage that it exists so that he can say that it's fixed. I'm trying to make a political science argument that there is some rationality for superdelegates on both sides.

But, Donald Trump, to his credit and to your point -- he gives great ear. This guy has a gifted ear. He knows exactly what he's doing. He tests these lines and those things that seem seat-of-the-pants really are not. I've come to realize that.

CAMEROTA: A lot of body parts mentioned during some of this. Chris asked him also about his experience with foreign policy, international relations, and Donald Trump said that he has lots of international deals and that's sort of what gives him the credibility to become the president.

Well, Robert Gates, former Secretary of Defense, was on one of the Sunday shows yesterday and said that those are not the same things. Let me play that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GATES, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Based on the speech, you have somebody who doesn't understand the difference between a business negotiation and a negotiation with sovereign powers. He doesn't appear to listen to people. He believes that he has all the answers, that he's the smartest man in the room.

I've worked for some very different presidents. One of the things they all had in common was a willingness --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. So, Michael, what do you think about that line of argument, it's not the same?

SMERCONISH: Well, I think that Sec. Gates is making the point that there's a difference between going into a sovereign state and turning a profit, which is admirable, and going into a foreign state and negotiating some type of a relationship that we need for our nation's best interest. They're not exactly the same thing.

CUOMO: Right.

SMERCONISH: To Trump's credit, he's got experience around the globe but it's not exactly state department type.

CUOMO: Right. He was teasing me because he was saying I was creating the pushback when he'd only said it 10 seconds ago.

SMERCONISH: Right.