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Punished After Reporting Rape at BYU; Bin Laden Raid Special; Women Voters React to Trump. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired May 02, 2016 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:31:32] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Controversy surrounding Utah's Brigham Young University after multiple young women say they were punished after reporting being raped or sexually assaulted. It's the school's honor code and students are demanding change there. Two of those young women, Madi Barney and Madeline MacDonald, join us now.
Ladies, thanks so much for being here. Your stories are pretty incredible. And I -- I want to have you walk us through them.
Madi, let's start with you. You say that you were raped in September.
MADI BARNEY, BRIGHAM YOUNG STUDENT AND RAPE VICTIM: Yes.
CAMEROTA: It happened off campus and at the hands of someone who was not a student at BYU. So you did the right thing. You went to police and you reported the rape. Then what did you hear from your school?
BARNEY: So, I reported my rape in the end of September and I reported directly to Provo Police. And about a month -- like two months later I received an e-mail from the BYU Honor Code Office. And it just simply said something along the lines of, we need to meet.
BARNEY: And I called them and I was trying to understand what the problem was and they would not tell me.
BARNEY: So I met with them. I actually met with the Title IX Office, not the Honor Code Office. And when I came in, they told me that they had received a police report of my rape and they refused to tell me how they had obtained it.
CAMEROTA: OK. I also have a portion of the note that they sent you, that your school said, "we have received information that you have been a victim of behavior that is addressed in the university's sexual misconduct policy. We have also received information that you have engaged in behavior that violates the BYU Honor Code." You, by being a victim of a rape, violated their honor code? How does that work?
BARNEY: Well, all of their honor code allegations come directly from the 20-page police report that they received, which had details of my rape, it had statements from the nurse who performed by rape exam. And we actually had to subpoena BYU in order to find out how they got this police report. And through that we found out that my rapist had received a physical copy of the police report and he had given it to his friend who was a sheriff's deputy, named Edwin Randolph (ph). Randolph thought that I deserved punishment for telling people that his friend had raped me and so he took it directly to the Honor Code Office.
CAMEROTA: And, so, Madi, I mean, when -- and Madeline, I want to get to your story in one second, but when this safe haven, this place that you have gone to as your university that is supposed to be educating you, when you heard from them that you were the subject of sort of this honor code investigation, how did you feel?
BARNEY: I still feel incredibly betrayed and re-victimized because, I mean, I don't know how many BYU officials have read my police report. And instead of offering me help and services, like they're supposed to, they only said we need to investigate you. And the man who raped me is not a student. So I'm the only one under investigation.
CAMEROTA: Madeline, your story is similar, yet different from Madi's. You say that you were sexually assaulted in 2014 when you were a freshman. Did you report it to your school, to BYU?
[08:35:03] MADELINE MACDONALD, BRIGHAM YOUNG STUDENT AND SEXUAL ASSAULT VICTIM: Yes. So, I started off by going to the women's resources office, because I wasn't sure like what police department I would go to or how I would even go about reporting anything. So I figured, OK, like I'll talk to them. And they were the ones who said, you have to go to Title IX, and they walked with me down the hallway and had me report there. So I did report to my school.
CAMEROTA: And then what happened? What was the response that you got from the Title IX office? And Title IX is the place designated to investigate sexual assault on campus.
MACDONALD: So at first everything seemed really great. They were listening to my story. I was like really excited that they were going to be helpful. And they did offer me some services. And, you know, I went to counseling there and it was really good. But then they stopped answering my questions and they wouldn't tell me what they were doing or if they had contacted the guy who assaulted me. And there was sort of this silence. And then I finally got ahold of their policies to like start reading through and see what was actually going on and what rules they were following. And it was really hard to get answers to my questions about those policies. Nobody wanted to tell me things, nobody wanted to talk to me.
CAMEROTA: So, Madi, do you feel that you got justice by taking the route that you did by reporting it to your school?
BARNEY: Me? Me or Madeline?
CAMEROTA: Oh, sorry, Madeline. I'm sorry, Madeline, do you feel that you got justice? MACDONALD: I feel like I didn't necessarily. Well, the thing was, my
school couldn't really give me justice. The guy who assaulted me wasn't at BYU student in my case. So doing an instigation, I was the only one being investigated. There was not -- there wasn't really any justice to be had through the school.
CAMEROTA: Here's what the school says. Let me read it to both of you. They say, "our goal in every situation is to give students the support that they need and safeguard their educational environment. When a student reports a sexual assault, the primary focus is on the victim's safety and well-being under the Title IX policy. The victim of a sexual assault will never be referred to the Honor Code Office for being a victim of sexual assault. A report of sexual assault would always be referred to the BYU Title IX Office.
Madi, what do you think of that statement?
BARNEY: It's not accurate. You know, it's clear that both Madeline and I were referred to the Honor Code Office for being victims of sexual assault. Any and all allegations that they have against me come from a rape police report. I don't know how much more direct you could get than that.
CAMEROTA: Madi, very quickly, you are not going -- you're not in school right now because of all of this. Why?
BARNEY: So I could not participate in an Honor Code investigation against myself because I have an ongoing criminal trial for my rape. So I'm a primary witness. I can't talk about the details of my rape. And BYU would not accept that. And so they told me that until I come in and participate in the investigation against myself, I can't register or enroll in any future classes.
CAMEROTA: Clearly something is wrong. Madi and Madeline, we appreciate you coming forward and talking about this and we will follow your stories until the completion and figure out how the system can be fixed there. Thank you so much, ladies.
BARNEY: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: Let's get to John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn, thanks so much.
So the stunning raid, it happened five years ago today, U.S. special forces taking out Osama bin Laden in his compound in Pakistan. President Obama is now talking about what it took to make it happen in an exclusive CNN report. That's next.
[08:42:41] BERMAN: Five years now since Osama bin Laden was killed in a raid by U.S. special forces in Pakistan. In a CNN exclusive that airs tonight on "AC 360," President Obama talked to CNN's Peter Bergen about what transpired to kill the world's most wanted terrorist. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we came in here at the point where the helicopters were about to actually land. It's here where we observed, for example, that one of the helicopters got damaged in the landing.
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: And what were you thinking?
OBAMA: I was thinking that this is not an ideal start. Look, we were all worried.
OBAMA: The good news was, it didn't crash. Our guys were able to extract themselves. The bad news was that the helicopter itself had been damaged. And this is an example, though, of the kind of meticulous planning that had been done. Even though we had the best helicopter operators imaginable, despite the fact that they had practiced these landings repeatedly in a mock-up, we couldn't account for temperature and the fact that helicopters start reacting differently in an enclosed compound here heat maybe rising.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: That's remarkable detail that I had not heard before, first of all, about walking in to the room and seeing the helicopter crash almost right away. Second of all, you know, the mock-ups with the helicopter and the training and the fact that heat may have been responsible for that crash.
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, the -- they rehearsed everything completely, but the one thing they didn't rehearse completely was, you know, the compound was surrounded by an 18-foot concrete wall. They could -- didn't have time to build an 18- foot concrete wall, so they had a wire fence in the rehearsals. And so with the temperature of the heat that night and the slightly different kind of setup, this created something called settling with power, where the helicopter basically -- its own rotor wash pushes it -- pushes it downward and essentially you're in a controlled crash if you know what you're doing. I mean you could -- you could actually crash if you don't know what you're doing.
BERMAN: So what if Osama bin Laden hadn't been there?
BERGEN: You know, one option they -- one of the options they had was just to go in, bin Laden's not there, leave. I mean whoever was there was trying to keep a pretty low profile and the Pakistanis weren't going to necessarily make a fuss about the fact that somehow helicopters had got into their country without them noticing. So, you know, if he wasn't there, one option was just to say nothing.
[08:45:08] BERMAN: That's amazing. How sure were they, because we've heard different percentage chances here? BERGEN: Well, you know, 40 percent, 60 percent, 80 percent. But, I mean, you know, in a way these percentages are misleading because he's either there or he's not there.
BERGEN: When you make the decision, you know, you don't have the luxury of saying, well, he's only 40 percent there. You know, you have to just -- you find out when you get there if he's there or not.
BERMAN: What about Pakistan? How concerned were they about the possible blowback from Pakistan?
BERGEN: Well, they're very -- you know, there's a military academy a mile away from bin Laden's house. There's Pakistani police posts around there. They were concerned, you know, as far as the Pakistanis are concerned, there's the invasion of Abbottabad going on and, you know, they don't know who these people are. They would have -- you know, they're very concerned about a firefight with the Pakistanis. You know, SEALs being taken hostage or killed or whatever. Luckily, the Pakistanis, you know, there wasn't -- they didn't -- they didn't have enough time to react.
BERMAN: But would they? Would they have engaged with the Pakistanis?
BERGEN: Well, there was a plan to fight out. I mean, you know, President Obama was pretty clear, we need -- and McRaven, Admiral McRaven, who did the -- you know, was the architect of the raid, they put in enough backup helicopters and a quick reaction force so if it came to a firefight that they would have the ability to, you know, to basically get out and have the firefight at the same time.
BERMAN: I've heard you say they had backup plans to their backup plans to their backup plans.
BERMAN: Well, amazingly, luckily, they did not have to use any of them.
Peter Bergen, thank you so much. A remarkable look inside the situation room and a remarkable special tonight. Join us tonight for a special called "We Got Him: President Obama, bin Laden and the Future of the War on Terror." That's on "AC 360," 8:00 Eastern, only on CNN.
CAMEROTA: All right, so what did our panel of women voters think of Donald Trump's interview on NEW DAY this morning? We'll talk to them, next.
[08:50:24] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): Women want strength. They want security. They want to have strong military. They want to know that our country is being protected. They want to know about women's issues, women's health issues. I'm going to do a better job for women than Hillary can do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: What women want, according to Donald Trump. Is he right about that? Let's bring back our female voter panel.
Ladies, thanks so much for sticking around. Great to talk to all of you.
Edith, you heard him, women want strength, they want national security, they want women's health issues. Is he right about that?
EDITH SUTTLES, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Absolutely. We want -- we want those things. But we also want to give an example of leadership that is respectful, that is kind, that is thoughtful, that is non- bullying.
CAMEROTA: And you don't think he -- so you don't think he provides that?
SUTTLES: Absolutely not. As a teacher, if I had a student behaving in my class the way that I see Donald Trump behave, the name calling, the disrespect, the bloviating, the -- the --
CAMEROTA: Yes. We get it.
SUTTLES: And we go on and on. That that -- that would call for a serious conversation with a parent about a student's behavior.
CAMEROTA: OK, let me ask Maricelly, about that, if you'll pass the microphone to her, because you support Donald Trump. So you don't love his tone, but you support him.
MARICELLY VELEZ-DELGADO, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Absolutely.
CAMEROTA: How does that -- how do you reconcile that?
VELEZ-DELGADO: Well, you know, I have to agree with what he just said, you know, we need strong leadership. And, you know, just because you travel the world as secretary of state, you know, what's -- what's been accomplished? Our country is hurting, Alisyn. We are bringing refugees into this country undocumented. You know, we -- we are -- we're -- it's -- everything is a handout. And I don't agree with the way that things are going now and --
CAMEROTA: So the issues that he touches on speak to you much more than the tone? That you'll take that thought?
VELEZ-DELGADO: Yes. Yes, it will speak to me and all Americans that -- that are hurting right now for change.
CAMEROTA: I want to ask, Katie, you are a Hillary supporter?
KATIE BLAIR, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Yes, I am.
CAMEROTA: It's hard to argue with Donald Trump's logic there. Of course women want security and strength and women's health issues. What did you hear him say?
BLAIR: Well, I was telling everyone kind of back stage, I really felt like he sounded like a drunk uncle at Thanksgiving.
CAMEROTA: How so?
BLAIR: Just like a constant stream of consciousness, someone you would definitely avoid at your holiday dinner. I found his remarks about Secretary Clinton's time as secretary of state really diminishing. I think it's really offensive that he characterized her as just traveling. It kind of shows that he doesn't even know what it takes to be in the White House.
CAMEROTA: If you could hand it to Kristina. You support Donald Trump. And what's great is that all of you are sitting next to each other.
KRISTINA MINIEAR, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I know.
CAMEROTA: You were all backstage. You're having coffee together, you know, talking about this in such a civilized fashion. But you do support Trump?
MINIEAR: Yes, I do. Yes.
CAMEROTA: And did you hear anything -- you know, I must say, that in the interview today with Chris, he said we have to bring jobs back. Chris asked him no fewer than four times, how, how, how, how? He was reluctant to give many specifics. Are you OK with that, Kristina?
MINIEAR: Yes. Well, again, what we're looking at is he -- he wants to bring out directly what needs to be spoken, even in the area of jobs, dealing even with Hillary. I mean how do you even want -- believe what Hillary is saying and doing with her criminal activity, dealing with everything that she's done with e-mails and everything? Women, we're women here on this panel today. We are like not just soccer moms, you know, or football fans of -- of what's going on. We are women that want that security and want that very issue of that. And Hillary, when she was -- was she silent or was she having that -- that part that we, as women, when somebody is going after your kids, you want to be a lion and roar and do something about it, with the Benghazi issue and that's --
CAMEROTA: So that still sticks with you? That is one of the overarching issues for you?
MINIEAR: Very strong. Very strong. Yes.
CAMEROTA: Let me ask you, Cheryl, because, Cheryl, you're undecided, or you were at least yesterday. How are you feeling this morning?
CHERYL LAUX, LEARNING TOWARDS HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I will tell you, that interview with Chris moved my needle even further into the Hillary camp. I find it --
CAMEROTA: Why is that? LAUX: I found it very degrading to women to say that we are not smart
enough to figure out a candidate on all their merits, whether they're female, male, what kind of job they do. That's insulting to me.
CAMEROTA: I mean Trump didn't say that women aren't smart enough, but that's what you got out of it?
LAUX: No, that's -- that's what I got out of it, if we're -- to say somebody is playing the woman card is saying that, you know, we can't, as women, distinguish between all the aspects of a person -- of a candidate's policies.
[08:55:13] CAMEROTA: Ah, Chris --
LAUX: And I believe that we can.
CAMEROTA: There you go. Christy, you also are undecided. How are you feeling this morning now after hearing that interview?
CHRISTY MURPHY, UNDECIDED REPUBLICAN VOTER: Well, I think it's interesting. I'm a mother of a 10-year-old. Do I want him to grow up and talk and look like Donald Trump? Not exactly. But it's interesting to me, why have no women that have worked for him -- he has to have employed thousands of women, made lots of deals in this country and around the world, nobody's coming out that knows him personally and speaking against him. He's obviously very honoring of his daughter. So that's interesting to me.
And I go back to the issues -- I have to agree with Kristina on that -- that we are in unprecedented times. Our economy is weaker than it's ever been globally. Our military is on that same path. I live in a military town, home of Fort Benning in Columbus, Georgia, and so I see that firsthand. And so, as a small business owner, I'm going to vote based on the economy. As a mother, am I thrilled with the way that he speaks? Not exactly. But as an American, I think our national security is the number one priority. And Hillary's had a lot of influence for the last three decades. And I haven't seen her do a single thing to strengthen our economy or our national security.
CAMEROTA: There you go. To our viewers at home, we'd love to hear how you think. You can find me on Twitter and FaceBook.
Ladies, thanks so much. It was great to get your perspective and to have you here on the program all morning. Thanks for being here.
"NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello begins right after this very quick break. We'll see you tomorrow.