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Why Trump Dominated In Indiana; Trump Wins Indiana, Cruz Drops Out Of Race; Anti-Trump Republicans Ready to Embrace Him?; Sanders Defeats Clinton In Indiana; Clinton Pivots To A General Election Fight Against Trump; Road to 270: The New Election Map. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired May 04, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:32:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Indiana voters giving us a little snapshot of why Donald Trump dominated the GOP primary last night, and which Democrat do you think has the best chance of beating him in the general election?

CNN's Christine Romans joins us now with more on the deciding factors in Indiana. What are you seeing, Christine?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. A lot of talk of the woman card from Donald Trump in the week leading up to that Indiana primary. Trump still won 47 percent of women voters in Indiana. Ted Cruz not far behind with 41 percent. But compare that with men. A much bigger share here. Fifty-nine percent of Republican male primary voters siding with Donald Trump.

Looking ahead to the general election voters warming to the possibility of a President Trump. We asked how Republican voters would feel if Trump became president. More than half would be excited or optimistic. Eighteen percent concerned, 24 percent scared. That's come down significantly since earlier primaries.

Same question but much different results on the Democratic side. How do voters feel about a Hillary Clinton presidency? Only 16 percent would be excited. Fifty-two percent optimistic, 22 percent concerned. A smaller percentage would be scared.

What about Bernie Sanders in the White House? More excitement than Clinton, 31 percent. Forty-one percent optimistic, 22 percent concerned. Just 4 percent scared. But an interesting twist here. We asked who has a better chance of beating Trump in November. Fifty- four percent choose Clinton, 43 percent Sanders. Sanders win the state but Clinton gets the vote of confidence for the general election, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you so much, Christine Romans. In case you didn't hear, Donald Trump won Indiana. Ted Cruz -- he lost, he's out. And John Kasich is John Kasich. What's he doing?

Let's bring in CNN political commentator and host of the "BEN FERGUSON SHOW", Ben Ferguson. He's a Ted Cruz supporter. I suppose we should say he was a Ted Cruz supporter. Also joining us CNN political commentator and Republican consultant, Margaret Hoover, who worked in the Bush White House. Also on several presidential campaigns.

Margaret, let's start with the Kasich question. What's he doing?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: What is John Kasich doing? Look, John Kasich should have run stronger in New York. That would have helped keep Trump's numbers down. He should have run stronger a lot of places.

So my question is, does the #NeverTrump movement become a pro-John Kasich movement? Do they put their money where the mouth is? Are they really #NeverTrump or have they run out of steam?

BERMAN: Well, answer that question. What do you think is the most likely --

HOOVER: They've totally run out of steam and they sort of rolled over. I mean, what you've seen is this acquiesce among establishment Republicans, among conservative intelligentsia and conservative elites that maybe the best thing to do is to fall in line.

We say Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. Maybe we just have to disprove the theory that running like Donald Trump can actually win a general election.

[07:35:00] BERMAN: You going to fall in line?

HOOVER: Is this about me? I mean, I have a very hard time -- I personally have a very hard time imagining myself voting for Donald Trump and I think there are a lot of Republican women that look exactly asI do.

BERMAN: Ben Ferguson --

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BERMAN: -- let me just follow up on that question. You going to vote for Donald Trump?

FERGUSON: I said this from the very beginning and some people are going to be shocked by this. I said I would support the nominee. Donald Trump is going to be the nominee. John Kasich is in fourth place, not even in third place. He's still behind Rubio.

This is over. The presumptive nominee is going to be Donald Trump and I will support Donald Trump, if for no other reason on the issue of national security. I think he's going to be better on that issue than Hillary Clinton.

The big problem that Donald Trump has now is his supporters. Donald Trump has got to get his supporters to understand that you can't go out there and trash every person that didn't get on the Trump train early on.

If you look last night at Twitter and Facebook, Trump supporters were just nailing Ted Cruz supporters, trash talking them, ripping on them, saying how do you like us now? We're going all the way. You cannot win a nomination, if you're Donald Trump, without bringing other people in, and there were more than 5 million people that vote against you instead of for you.

So, he's got a lot of work to do to get his supporters to actually understand. You've got to be friends with people that you just ran against. You cannot continue to trash them.

BERMAN: Why can't we be friends is the question we're all asking this morning, Ben Ferguson. One of the things I'm curious about, to both of you, but Ben, I'll put it to you first. There's a lot of chattering and angst this morning among some people in the party. You heard from Steve Dease, who I know you know, Ben --

FERGUSON: Yes.

BERMAN: -- and Mark Salter, as well. And they make it seem like something's happening in the party that they're not connected to. Donald Trump won the Republican primaries. He is the presumptive nominee, or will be the presumptive nominee. He won the Republican Party primary process. This is your party that has decided --

FERGUSON: Yes.

BERMAN: -- on Donald Trump. It just --

FERGUSON: Well, I --

BERMAN: Go ahead.

FERGUSON: I think there's one thing here and Donald Trump needs to understand this, and his campaign probably needs to understand this more than Donald Trump does. He's a very weak primary candidate. He said that Mitt Romney and John McCain were both losers, in his words. They had this thing wrapped up well before now.

He has a lot of work to do to be able to turn this around in the general election. And this idea, and Ithink part of it's just the overall media coverage of this race, has made it seem like Donald Trump is somehow bigger than he actually is. He's a very weak candidate going into the general election. He is going to have to do more to bring people together. And, again, I do understand why he didn't say that last night.

BERMAN: Margaret?

HOOVER: Here -- you know what? But, here's my question for Ben. Here's my question for every Cruz supporter. Here's my question for everybody who calls themselves a Republican. Donald Trump -- you're right John, has won the Republican Party nomination.

BERMAN: By a lot.

HOOVER: Well, he has won it by a lot in a very fractured field. I mean, you still have these other competitors. If you add up all of their points they have about 900 delegates right now. But he did win -- well, has -- is leading the process and will likely get to the 1,237 by believing absolutely nothing that Republicans have believed and run on in the last 30 years.

He is a nativist, isolationist, protectionist candidate. He does not represent the -- as governing establishment in Washington, the Paul Ryan's. He has disproved the notion that true conservatism can win. That you just haveto vote to defund Obamacare one more time -- or, overturn Obamacare one more time or defund Planned Parenthood one more time.He's literally -- there is nothing about what he stands for that represents the Republican Party.

BERMAN: But that's something --

HOOVER: So then, how do people --

BERMAN: But how can that be true, Margaret? How can it be true if he just won the Republican primary process?

HOOVER: Right, which means the party is fractured. It means the party is broken. It means the party has a reckoning. What does the Republican Party platform look like under Donald Trump? Does it say that we believe in a personhood amendment?

Does it say that we believe in traditional marriage and we still should have "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"?Does it modernize in terms of social freedom? What does it say about economics? Does it continue to -- is it -- does it have a protectionist economic agenda? Does it --

FERGUSON: And, John?

HOOVER: -- begin to espouse some of these nativist ideas? Is for building a wall? This is not what we know the Republican Party -- so, people like me who identify with the Republican Party and not the principles that Donald Trump has espoused, have a real reckoning and have a real crisis to confront.

BERMAN: Ben, we've got about 10 seconds left.

FERGUSON: Well John, what Margaret just said wraps up the entire conversation this morning perfectly. Donald Trump has a lot of work to do and his supporters have got to learn to play nice with others. And also, if he continues to go down this path of quoting the National Enquirer as a legitimate source and attacking people that have not been with him, or attacking someone's father saying he's connected to JFK's assassination, he will lose a general election.

He has got to stop the insanity and become a serious candidate. And people keep saying act more presidential. Just don't quote the National Enquirer. Just don't go out there with your supporters and beat up everyone that doesn't agree with you. You're going to have to bring everybody together.

BERMAN: Ben Ferguson, Margaret Hoover, thanks for being with us this morning. I appreciate it. Alisyn --

FERGUSON: Thanks. [07:40:00] CAMEROTA: On the Democratic side, Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton in Indiana. Is it all about the independents? We'll hear from a Clinton supporter next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:43:00] CAMEROTA: Bernie Sanders says he feels momentum after beating Hillary Clinton in Indiana last night. His path to the Democratic nomination remains a steep, uphill climb but is there a lesson here for Clinton?

Let's discuss with former DNC communications director, Brad Woodhouse. He's president of Correct the Record and Americans United for Change. He's also a Hillary Clinton supporter. Good morning, Brad.

BRAD WOODHOUSE, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning, how are you?

CAMEROTA: I'm doing well. Are you surprised by Hillary's loss last night?

WOODHOUSE: No, not at all. I'll tell you, Indiana, Alisyn, demographically, looks a lot like Wisconsin. Wisconsin was a state Bernie Sanders won by 14 points. Last night he eked out a small win. I think was three or four points. He spent $2 million on advertising there. She spent, I think, zero or close to zero.

I mean, I think anyone who's watched this campaign over the last few weeks knows that while she's taking nothing for granted in the primaries -- she's already very much in the campaign against Donald Trump. Bernie Sanders has virtually no path now to the nomination.

He said, Alisyn, that he needed to win all of these remaining contests by 65 percent. Last night he fell far short of that and he only changed the delegate math by six delegates.

[07:45:00] CAMEROTA: So Brad, let's talk about what we can glean from the exit polls there and what might be some vulnerabilities for Hillary Clinton that we see. Number one, with young people. Young people, in exit polls in Indiana, age 17 to 44 -- well, here, let's look at 17 and 29. All right, let's look at 17 and 44. Sanders wins them by twice as many as Hillary did.

So, what specifically, Brad, can Hillary Clinton do in the next few weeks to try to appeal to that younger demographic?

WOODHOUSE: Well, first of all, I think she needs to run a very compelling race and I think she will against Donald Trump. Ted Cruz, yesterday, said Donald Trump would lead the country off the cliff. He called him an amoral, pathological liar. And so, I think there's a lot to work with there in terms in attracting voters to Hillary Clinton, including young voters.

Let me say this about Sen. Sanders. Senator Sanders has run a tremendous campaign and he has inspired a lot of people, and Sec. Clinton is going to work very hard to bring those people over. And I think once this is a race against Donald Trump -- we've seen polling. Harvard did a poll that showed that this issue of who the young people support totally flips in a general election to Hillary Clinton and away from Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: OK, another vulnerability, independence. And here, Bernie crushed her 72 percent to 28 percent, Bernie versus Hillary. And then, you look at how Donald Trump does with independents and in Indiana he won. He got 54 percent. So again, twice what Hillary Clinton got with 28 percent. That is a real vulnerability in the general election. She's going to need them.

WOODHOUSE: Well, you know -- Alisyn, in the primary this is really how it is played out and I think if you look at any state coming up on the map, if it's open, if it's largely white -- so if it's open so Democrats and independents can vote, Bernie Sanders tends to do pretty well.

I don't think she's going to apologize for appealing to Democrats to win the Democratic nomination. And then I think once you get into a head-on-head match with Donald Trump, I think we'll see those numbers change.

But look, there's work to do. There's work to do here on both sides, but we're going to be facing Donald Trump and I think that increases the opportunity to talk to the American people, not just independents, Alisyn.

You know, there's a lot of evidence today, as a result of Donald Trump capturing the nomination last night, that there are Republicans that just can't stomach the idea of voting for him. So I think there's going to be a wide range of voters for Hillary to appeal to going forward.

CAMEROTA: Bernie Sanders explained his path last night. Basically, he said that he sees himself being able to siphon away some delegates from Hillary Clinton as he moves forward. What do you want to see Bernie Sanders do now?

WOODHOUSE: Well look, I think Sen. Sanders should run a campaign based on the issues, and the issues that the cares about. And I think, very much, he should stay in the race.

CAMEROTA: You do think that. I mean, so you think he should stay in even though Hillary Clinton does think it's time for her to start turning her attention to Donald Trump?

WOODHOUSE: Well look, she has turned her attention to Donald Trump. I don't think you've seen her, -- unless it's been in response to a question, I don't think you've seen her even mention Sen. Sanders on the campaign trail in the last couple of weeks. She's spending almost all her time talking about her issues or contrasting those issues with Donald Trump.

The Democratic nomination is essentially over. She could lose every contest between now and California and she would still capture the nomination. I mean, she has a large lead in pledged delegates, a large lead in superdelegates.

What I hope Sen. Sanders will do is, to the extent, like Elizabeth Warren last night and others on the Democratic side, some who have not supported Hillary -- that he'll, to the extent that he wants to contrast his positions with someone else, I hope he'll do it with Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: Brad Woodhouse, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

WOODHOUSE: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to John.

BERMAN: All right, Donald Trump is now the presumptive Republican nominee, just like no one predicted. Now, polls show him losing the general election. Is there a chance that they're wrong, too, and why? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:53:00] BERMAN: Donald Trump now just 184 delegates away from officially clinching the Republican nomination but with Ted Cruz now out of the race he's all but certain the surpass that. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton now focused on the general election fight and the new battle for numbers, this time, 270 electoral votes.

Here to discuss it all with us, Mike Shields, CNN delegate analyst, the former RNC chief of staff and current president of the CongressionalLeadership Fund and The American Action Network. Mike, thanks for being with us.

Delegate analyst -- Mike, we just, you know, do you out of a job here. Why are we even here talking about delegates this morning? Is there anything left to discuss?

MIKE SHIELDS, CNN DELEGATE ANALYST: Well, sure, there's still some delegate issues that matter. First of all, Donald Trump isn't yet the nominee. He is the person we think will likely be the nominee although things point towards that with Ted Cruz dropping out. Donald Trump is now going to get the 1,237 necessary before the convention. He'll lock it up in the remaining states, the last state being June 7th -- the voting.

So he will go on to the convention and be the nominee but it hasn't happened yet. He's still got to campaign in those last few states. And then you're going to get to the convention and he's going to have to start working on bringing the party together.

And he's going to work on things like who's his vice presidential nominee, what's in the platform. And I think what's really important for him is also where's the money going to come from?

BERMAN: Yes.

SHIELDS: A really good way to bring the party together is when you can raise money, not only for your campaign, but for down ticket races, and you can provide that as a party leader. That's a really important way to bring the party together and so he's going to have to start working on those things, starting today.

BERMAN: People like money, Mike Shields. You point out the convention hall. It's going to awkward at Cleveland for a ton of reasons, if for no other reason that a lot of the delegates who have to vote for Donald Trump on the first ballot aren't for him. I mean, Ted Cruz has made certain of that with his delegate operation.

Have we ever seen anything like that on a convention floor where there are going to people there are raising their hand for the nominee they don't really like?

SHIELDS: Well yes, I mean, exactly right. The whole convention hall is going to be full of the local party regulars. I think you'll find that more of them wind up being loyal to the party than you might expect, and they will want to get behind the nominee because they'll want to beat Hillary Clinton.

But look, I mean, you had a Donald Trump supporter that said we're either going to take over the GOP or blow it up. And so, when you come into the party with almost a hostile takeover attitude like that and then you win that party's nomination, it's on you to bring the party together.

[07:55:00] So I think Donald Trump's going to have to give a message to those delegates. He's going to have to talk to them. He's going to have to get in that convention hall and say hey, I am your nominee. I'm one of you. I want to bring you all together.

One of the ways to do that is to start reaching out to those delegates' favorite candidates and get them on board. Get other elected officials on board and show that you want to bring the party together and that's a really big task for him after this primary process.

BERMAN: Maybe we can shift your title from delegate analyst to Electoral College analyst, to keep you employed here, Mike. Donald Trump says he puts states in play that have not been in play for Republican candidates in the past.

He even lists states like New York, for that matter. Let's leave New York aside because I do not think that is true, but are there states for which is it true, perhaps, in the industrial Midwest?

SHIELDS: Yes, I think that -- well, it remains to be seen. I mean, we've seen a poll that came out on CNN this morning that he's down by 13 or 14 points in the general election already. And so, he's got a big hill to climb. He's got a hill to climb with certain demographic groups, non-whites, especially Hispanics, college-educated women, and so that makes it tough in some of those battleground states.

But we also don't know how Donald Trump is going to be in the general election because we keep hearing there's going to be new Trump and he's going to act differently. I think that he does have an opportunity in the upper Midwest and Ohio

River Valley and western Pennsylvania and western New York to sort of improve himself and to help some of the people running down ticket because his message will do better there. Will do better in states like West Virginia.

But in battleground states like Nevada and Colorado and Florida, where you have a high Hispanic population that really help decide the election, I think there's a lot of work to be done and it starts with bringing the Republicans together.

Our recent candidates have gotten at least 91 percent of Republican voters as a part of their coalition. He's still got to get Republican on board, I think, before he starts looking at those battleground states and how he's going to do a swing vote.

BERMAN: I think he's at 85 in our most recent poll among Republicans, which actually isn't enough in a general election. Mike, quickly, last conspiracy theory I want to stoke right here. The delegates are bound, or will be bound, to Donald Trump when he gets over 1,237 on the presidential ballot.

They're not bound -- delegates are all free agents on the vice presidential ballot. So, Donald Trump can say he wants whoever he wants to be his vice presidential nominee but the delegates don't have to abide by it. Any chance you might see a fight with some of the party regulars? The people who don't like Donald Trump trying to back someone that he may not want?

SHIELDS: I think that's highly unlikely because, in the end, the delegates want to win the general election. They want to beat Hillary Clinton. But look, I think that's partly -- you know, the vice presidential pick is an opportunity for Donald Trump to send a signal to those delegates and to the party of how we wants to bring people together.

Those are the kinds of things that he now has to do that will help bring the party together, so who he chooses can help make that a lot easier and avoid those types of conspiracy theories, as you put it, going into the convention.

BERMAN: Mike, we have just a few seconds left. I want you to level with me because your tone of voice seems somewhat forlorn. Do you think Donald Trump is capable of all these things that you say he needs to do? Do you think he's capable of bringing the party together? Simply, yes or no?

SHIELDS: Look, I think it's a big challenge but he's already defied every single thing of political gravity that we've known. And so, who's to say that he can't do all of these things and then some. I don't think anyone who's an observer of politics would be shocked if Donald Trump won the general election, just because he's done things that none of us predicted.

But certainly, right now as you start out, he's got a hill to climb and he's got to prove that he can do all of these things. There's no reason to say he can't do it but we're going to have to see if he can pull that together.

BERMAN: Mike Shields, delegate analyst extraordinaire, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

SHIELDS: Thank you.

BERMAN: We're following a lot of news. Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We had a tremendous victory.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: We are suspending our campaign.

TRUMP: Well, I guess he's down to one. I don't know. Is there a second?

CRUZ: Donald will betray his supporters. I don't think we deserve that.

TRUMP: Ted Cruz -- I don't know if he likes me, but he is one hell of a competitor.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've got to stay focused. We know how to do this, my friends.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Secretary Clinton thinks that this campaign is over. I've got some bad news for her.

CLINTON: A lot of politicians make a lot of promises to you that they couldn't keep. I'm not going to do that.

SANDERS: I think we can pull off one of the great political upsets in the history of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your new day. It is Wednesday, May 4th, 8:00 in the east. Chris is on assignment this morning and John Berman joins us. Great to have you, John.

So, Donald Trump will be the Republican Party's presumptive nominee after sweeping to victory in Indiana and knocking Ted Cruz out of the race. The chairman of the RNC calling on the party to unite now behind Trump to defeat Hillary Clinton.

On the Democratic side, Bernie Sanders upsetting Clinton in Indiana to keep his White House hopes alive, barely.