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Will #NeverTrump Republicans Back Trump?; Inside America's Attack Submarines Defending The Deep; Young Girl's Letter To Obama Prompts Visit To Flint. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired May 05, 2016 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:33:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The "Stop Trump" movement, it turns out, couldn't stop Trump. The Republican outsider ran roughshod over his campaign opponents who also did not believe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that Donald Trump will not be the nominee.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump will never be the nominee of the party of Lincoln and Reagan.
JEB BUSH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump, I don't believe, is going to be the party's nominee.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump will not be the nominee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's leading right now.
CRUZ: Donald Trump will not be the nominee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just looked into that camera and said he's a coward. Will you support him as the nominee?
CRUZ: Donald Trump will not be the nominee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Looks like yes, he will. So, where does the #NeverTrump movement go from here? Let's bring in contributing editor of RedState.com, Ben Howe, and conservative radio talk show host, Charlie Sykes. Gentlemen, you actually have different views on what to do going forward.
Ben, yours may be the most radical in some Republican and conservative circles, that you say you're just going to vote for Hillary. Actually, not only vote for Hillary, you're going to work, more or less, to get Hillary Clinton elected, Ben. Explain.
BEN HOWE, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, REDSTATE.COM: Well, we'll definitely have aligned interests. I'm going to be working to stop Trump. I mean, you just said a moment ago we didn't stop Trump. In my opinion, it's not over yet. We can still stop him and I would like to. Bill Kristol was just talking about the cost of him being the nominee and how great a cost it is. If he had the bully pulpit for your years defining conservatism, I don't how we'd recover from that. So it's not that I want Hillary Clinton to be president, it's that I just can't sit by and watch somebody coopt conservatism and destroy its credibility.
BERMAN: And to be clear, you don't think that a third party candidate -- you know, Bill Kristol wants Ben Sasse and Ben Sasse says he won't. But, if someone were to emerge and say hey, you know, I'm going to run, you don't think that would be an effective way to stop Trump? You wouldn't support that?
HOWE: Oh, I would support that. I just haven't seen anything that makes me believe that it's going to happen. I haven't seen anybody who wants to step up in this disaster of an election and be the one who also didn't stop Trump as a third party candidate.
If somebody can step up and show that they can do it, then absolutely, I support that. I would much rather have somebody I can like and support in office rather than just voting for somebody that I really, really disagree with.
[07:35:00] BERMAN: Charlie Sykes, your take on this? You were a big Ted Cruz guy in Wisconsin and you, actually, were very effective in stopping Donald Trump in that state. It didn't last much past Wisconsin. What do you plan to do now?
CHARLES SYKES, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, we turned out to be -- I thought we would be a firewall. We turned out to be a speed bump. I wasn't a big Ted Cruz guy, I was an anti-Trump guy. Look, this is a choice between drinking arsenic and drinking battery acid for most conservatives.
And so, I'm still #NeverTrump as in never Trump. I can't bring myself to jump into the dumpster fire of the Hillary campaign quite yet, but I would strongly caution Republicans who are getting on board. Understand who Donald Trump is, what he represents. He is a serial liar, he is a misogynist, he's a race baiter, he's a xenophobe who embraces these whacky conspiracy theories.
If you endorse Donald Trump you own all of that. Between now and November, every slur, every insult, every outrage, every falsehood, every conspiracy theory, you will either have to defend, rationalize or avoid.
And I think this is where, I think, #NeverTrump is going to play a significant role. To say to people Trumpism is not conservatism, that we're not part of this. And we will have the creditability to pick up the pieces because right now Ben is absolutely right.
The disaster that Donald Trump represents for the Republican Party and, more importantly, for the conservative movement, is an existential challenge because he will dismantle everything. He is the cartoon caricature of everything the left has said about conservatives. BERMAN: Charlie, how do you reconcile the fact that he won the Republican primaries, then? You know, going away early, you know. How can you reconcile that he got over 10 million votes and counting? More votes already than Mitt Romney ever got.
You say he doesn't represent conservatism but doesn't he, by definition, since he just won the Republican race, represent now where the Republican Party is?
SYKES: Well, there's a distinction between the mathematics of the votes and actual ideas and principles. And, you know, there is a dichotomy. More people voted in those primaries for somebody other than Donald Trump.
But the reality is that winning elections in this country does not necessarily mean that you are the right guy, and Donald Trump is just fundamentally unsuited to be the President of the United States. He is erratic, he is reckless, he is a man without principles whatsoever, and I think it is absolutely crucial for principle conservatives to point that out because otherwise --
Look, a lot of these folks are going to be saying you know what? No, we're not anti-women, we're not anti-minorities, we are not tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists. But you know what? If you spend the next six months arguing that Donald Trump should be president, it's all true.
BERMAN: Let me get a question in to Ben, here. Ben, how far are you willing to take this? What's your view going to be going forward to people who do support Donald Trump, or don't stand in his way? Will you refuse to back anyone in the future? You know, 2020, for the presidential race, if there is one who supports Donald Trump now?
HOWE: I've been struggling with this because the whole issue here is the credibility of people's words. And if they come out and say that he's a pathological liar, which I think he is. In fact, I've called him a maniac, which I think he is.
If they think all these things about him and then they turn around and say that he's our best chance and that we need to vote for him, I think that they're going to have a serious problem every time they try to run for anything, accomplish anything, convince anybody of anything.
We need to reach new voters. We can't do that if we're supporting a known liar that we've called a liar. We just can't do that.
BERMAN: All right, Ben Howe, Charlie Sykes, great to have you with us this morning. Thanks so much, gentlemen.
HOWE: Thanks.
BERMAN: Alisyn.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, John, we have a CNN exclusive for everyone. Onboard a U.S. nuclear sub as Cold War-like tensions between the U.S. and Russia resurface. CNN's Jim Sciutto speaks with the submarine's commander about the mission, and we'll show you that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:42:00] CAMEROTA: On the surface the Cold War ended back in the 1980's, but under the sea old rivals, America and Russia, are engaged in a new kind of cat and mouse game. Both sides keeping a wary eye on each other with some of the most advanced fighting machines in the world.
Chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, had an exclusive firsthand look at one of them. Tell us about this visit to a sub.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you. So, we've seen this conflict between the U.S. and Russia. We've seen it in the sky with these flybys. We've seen it in places like Ukraine and Syria, but it's also taking place out at sea and under the sea. It's known as the silent service because they do this in secret by design. But we got a rare look inside and it was truly amazing to experience.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: The USS Missouri nuclear attack submarine, sailing to exercises in a deep dive off Florida. The Atlantic is on the frontlines of a new Cold War. We joined for an exclusive embark.
The USS Missouri is an attack submarine. It launched torpedoes at other submarines and surface vessels. It can launch missiles at ground targets. It gathers intelligence. It could also deploy Navy SEAL units for special operations. It is the most advanced submarine in the world.
And it is facing the most advanced threats to U.S. submarine forces in decades. Russia is deploying attack submarines in numbers and with aggressiveness and advances in technology not seen since the Cold War. And now China, North Korea, Vietnam, India, and others are joining a new arms race under the sea.
Commodore Ollie Lewis commands a squadron of 10 Atlantic-based subs, including the Missouri.
COMMODORE OLLIE LEWIS, COMMANDER, SUBMARINE SQUADRON 12: We are operating places where we didn't have to rely on an adversary being there to challenge us. Now, that's changing. We're back to the point now where we have to consider that there's an adversary ready to challenge us in the undersea domain and that undersea superiority is not guaranteed.
SCIUTTO: New threats require a new state of readiness, which we witnessed at every turn. Missouri's 135-crew repeatedly trained for anti-submarine warfare.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire, two, two.
SCIUTTO: They simulate firing cruise missiles from depth at targets on land.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Torpedo course, three, three, seven. Unit running, wire good.
SCIUTTO: And they're constantly the sub's enormous speed and maneuverability.
We're in the midst of another steep ascent. You're hearing that alarm as we approach 20 degrees. We're going to get to a 25-degree angle. Keep in mind, I'm standing up straight now, but as I'm leaning forward that's keeping me vertical in relation to the ground as the angle ascend gets sharper.
[07:45:00] These are just exercises, but the Missouri, the "Mighty Mo" to its crew, has repeatedly come nose-to-nose with real world threats. When Russia annexed Crimea and launched military action in Syria, the Missouri was deployed nearby. And when a Russian sub turned up off the coast of Florida in 2012 it was the USS Missouri called into action to track it.
That's just showing hey -- showing where they can go?
COMMANDER FRASER HUDSON, USS MISSOURI: Honestly, I think it's operational experience. If anything were to ever happen they have experience. They know those waters. I don't think it's a political statement on their part, at all.
SCIUTTO: The Missouri's greatest asset may be its silence, invisible to satellites, virtually inaudible to other ships and subs, giving the U.S. the element of surprise.
HUDSON: Whether there is a submarine in there or not, they don't know. A potential adversary has to take that into their calculus when they make decisions to do bad things.
SCIUTTO: And so, underwater is where these boats and their crew spend 90 percent of their time deployed.
So, the USS Missouri is coming into port now -- Mayport Naval Station in Jacksonville, Florida, and that's not something, if you're a submariner, that you do very often. Their most recent deployment -- they were out for 181 days -- 163 days were at sea. That is a life of a submariner. And that is a call to action the U.S. Navy's 70 submarines are getting more and more often.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: I've got to say --
CAMEROTA: Cool.
BERMAN: What an incredible view inside an amazing piece of technology.
CAMEROTA: Really cool. BERMAN: I've got a million questions, Jim, but first off, you know, you mentioned the Russians are manufacturing and deploying new subs. Does the U.S. still have the advantage here?
SCIUTTO: The U.S. has confidence it has the advantage, but that advantage is shrinking. I spoke to the former NATO supreme allied commander and he says they're ahead, but not by much, and that's because Russia's investing there. The whole new class of submarine that is harder to track. Now, a lot of that stuff is classified but they're very open about the challenge.
CAMEROTA: I'm interested in the arms race. I'm also interested in the creature comforts of submarine living. You're six foot, three inches. Yes, like John.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
CAMEROTA: What it's like to sleep down there and live down there?
SCIUTTO: Sure, sure. Before I went, I actually thought there was a height limit for submarines. There is not. In fact, the commodore I interviewed there, he's got a number of commands. He's six foot, four, so he's even taller than me and there are taller folks who've served in this service.
Of course, the first thing I did when I got inside is I banged my head, but I learned. You're constantly bending down, you know, but space is at such a premium there. Everything has dual uses because that's the way it is. The ward room where the officers eat is also an operating table if they have to do something.
That picture we just showed there, by the way -- my team and I -- we were in a stateroom and I was like oh, a stateroom is going to be great. We're going to be able to kick back. There's going to be a La-Z-Boy. The stateroom had about as much space as an airplane bathroom.
CAMEROTA: Oh.
SCIUTTO: And behind us there were our three bunks stacked up like that. And trust me, the crews -- it's a lot more cramped quarters and they've got to do it for months on end.
BERMAN: A lot's going on between the U.S. and Russia right now. Russia doing these flybys, buzzing U.S. vessels. How do the subs play into that?
SCIUTTO: Well, it's part of it. (Video playing) Of course, we see it in the air, like that. You don't see it underwater, by design. But they've been very open that they have subs that they're -- they're chasing subs. The Russian subs are chasing them.
I'll tell you, this sub came face-to-face -- the USS Missouri, in 2012, last time the Russians put a sub off the U.S. coast. It was during the U.S. elections in 2012 off the coast of Florida. It was the USS Missouri that was called to go and track that Russian sub. CAMEROTA: Jim Sciutto, great reporting.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for sharing it with us.
SCIUTTO: Thanks a lot.
BERMAN: Just playing cool.
CAMEROTA: It was cool to see, yes.
BERMAN: All right, she wrote the president about the water crisis in Flint and not only did this 8-year-old girl get to meet him, she got a hug. So, what was that experience like? Little Miss Flint joins us next, live. That smile.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:53:00] AMARIYANNA COPENY, "LITTLE MISS FLINT" (reading): Mr. President, hello, my name is Mari Copeny and I am eight years old. I live in Flint, Michigan. I am one of the children that is affected by this water and I've been doing my best to march in protest.
CAMEROTA: President Obama visiting Flint, Michigan to try to reassure the people of Flint that the federal government has their back in their water crisis. The president says he was inspired to visit by that letter, read from that 8-year-old, Mari Copeny, also known as "Little Miss Flint".
Mari and her mom, Lulu Brezzell, join us now. Good morning, guys.
LULU BREZZELL, AMARIYANNA'S MOTHER: Good morning.
COPENY: Good morning.
CAMEROTA: Great to see both of you. So, Mari, when you wrote the letter to President Obama, what message were you trying to give him?
COPENY: Um --
CAMEROTA: Were you trying to tell him what your life was like in Flint with the water crisis?
COPENY: Uh-huh.
CAMEROTA: We saw that. We saw that you said that you were one of the children affected by the crisis. You also made a plea to meet him. Did you ever think that the president would respond to your letter and that you would meet him?
COPENY: Uh-uh.
CAMEROTA: Lulu, tell us about this process and why Mari wanted to write the letter to the president and how you tried to say to her -- you tried to inject a little reality that look, the president's a busy man and I don't think he'll have time to meet you.
BREZZELL: Well, she's the type of kid of that -- we were heading to D.C. for the Congressional hearings and she wanted to just ask. You never know what could happen. We thought, literally, nothing would come of it. She knew that, we knew that. But, as we all know, he decided to write back.
CAMEROTA: Yes. (Video playing) So, Mari, tell us about this moment that we're seeing here where you actually got to meet President Obama.
COPENY: Uh-huh.
BREZZELL: How was it?
COPENY: It was good. It was amazing.
CAMEROTA: What did you like about it?
[07:55:00] COPENY: When he said do your homework. That was at a school.
CAMEROTA: That's a good message. And did you expect that he was going to pick you up and give you a big hug, like we're seeing?
COPENY: Uh-huh.
CAMEROTA: Lulu, what was that moment like to watch with your daughter and the president?
BREZZELL: It was so heartwarming. She ran and jumped right in his arms like they were old best friends. Sweetest thing I've ever seen.
CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. The president wrote back. I mean, you warned Mari that the letter might fall on deaf ears or just be like, you know, put into some pile. The president's a very busy man and might not be able to respond to an 8-year-old's letter, however, he did.
He wrote back and I'll just read a little portion of it because he said that he wanted you guys to be the first to know that he was going to visit Flint yesterday. He announced it to you guys before he did to the public and he said, "Letters from kids like you," Mari, "are what make me so optimistic for the future. I hope to meet you next week, Little Miss Flint."
Lulu, what was her response when you guys got that letter?
BREZZELL: Well, she didn't know when the letter had came and we actually we wanted to surprise here at school and I think she thought she as being pranked. She just first looked at me like I was crazy and then she was really excited.
CAMEROTA: So, Mari, what do you think about the president now?
COPENY: Um, uh --
BREZZELL: Is he super cool? COPENY: Uh-huh.
CAMEROTA: You think he's cool, and can you believe that he actually wrote back to you? Was that a surprise?
COPENY: Uh-huh.
CAMEROTA: Lulu, can you just give us a little glimpse into what it's been like for your family with the Flint water crisis? How has it affected you?
BREZZELL: We can't use our water at all. We found out recently that we have one of the highest levels of chloroform in our showers tested in an entire city for water. So we can't bathe in it, we're not drinking it. Every time the water touches mine or my kid's skin we get rashes that look similar to chemical burns.
CAMEROTA: Oh.
BREZZELL: So, our whole life is now nothing but bottled water.
CAMEROTA: So, when you saw the president there hoist the glass of the filtered water and drink it, did that give you comfort or are you skeptical?
BREZZELL: I was very skeptical because the EPA isn't doing quite enough testing to figure out what's causing the rashes or why exactly our water can smell like bleach and burn your eyes. It burns my eyes. I don't want to ingest it.
CAMEROTA: So Lulu, what's the message here for Mari? What are you hoping she takes away from this whole experience?
BREZZELL: Out of all this, I just want her to know, and I think she knows now, that one girl can change the world.
CAMEROTA: Because it was her letter that inspired the president's visit. Mari and Lulu, thank you. Great to talk to you guys. Thanks so much for waking up early, Mari. Great to see you.
COPENY: OK.
BREZZELL: Wave goodbye.
COPENY: Bye-bye.
CAMEROTA: Bye-bye. We're following a lot of news, including new interviews with Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, so let's get right to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So far, we're off to a good start. I've been able to point out some real weaknesses.
I would be interested in vetting John. I like John. I went for the knockout. Hillary doesn't have a clue.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is a loose cannon and loose cannons tend to misfire.
This is a classic case of a blustering, bullying guy.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is a lot of nervousness that Donald Trump may become president. Aint' going to happen.
CLINTON: I've seen the presidency up close and I think I know what it takes.
WILLIAM MAUZY, ATTORNEY: Set into motion a lifesaving mission to get Prince to a doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Medical at Paisley Park. Person down, not breathing.
MAUZY: One of the staff members heard him screaming. He saw that Prince was unconscious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.
CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your new day. It is Thursday, May 5th, 8:00 in the east. Chris is on assignment this morning. John Berman joins me. Great to have you here, John.
BERMAN: Good morning.
CAMEROTA: So, up first, Donald Trump, taking his first real steps towards the general election. The presumptive Republican nominee knocking out the last of his rivals and now vetting a short list of potential running mates. Trump telling CNN just how shocked even he is at how fast he came out on top.
This morning, though, a GOP senator is calling for a third party candidate to run. So what does this mean for a divided party?
BERMAN: All right, meantime, Hillary Clinton is targeting Donald Trump. She calls him a risky choice, saying the country cannot take a chance on a loose cannon. This, as Bernie Sanders is making clear he is in this race until the last vote is cast. We're six months out now from the general election in November, but the election war is already well underway.
Let's bring in Phil Mattingly in Columbus, Ohio. Good morning, Phil.
