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Turmoil in GOP Over Donald Trump; Legal Showdown Over Transgender Rights; Tornadoes Kill 2 in Oklahoma. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired May 10, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CUOMO: ... big issue in the news. We'll be telling you about it this morning. There's some big changes to the election, as well. So let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[07:00:08] REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We just need to get to know each other.

DR. BEN CARSON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think you're going to find a lot more harmony than you think.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I hate to say it, but we have to leave it the way it is.

I think people have to get more.

(via phone): I put in the biggest tax decrease of anybody running for office by far. OK?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm accused of playing the gender card and all that. It's a real problem.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't let anybody tell you this campaign is over.

CLINTON: It's a real catch-22 that we're caught in. We've got to do a better job.

SANDERS: This campaign will fight for every remaining vote.

GOV. PAT MCCRORY (R), NORTH CAROLINA: I do not agree with their interpretation of federal law.

LORETTA LYNCH, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We will do everything we can to protect you. Please know that history is on your side.

MCCRORY: This is not just a North Carolina issue. This is now a national issue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (CHANTING)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota. CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. It's

primary day in West Virginia and Nebraska, but the civil war within the Republican Party dominating the headlines. You've got House Speaker Paul Ryan saying he'll step aside as chairman of the GOP convention if Donald Trump asks him to.

All this as Trump is trying to mend fences with Ryan and party leaders. Is he uniting?

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, Trump also trying to clean up some confusing comments about tax hikes and the economy. We will press his campaign about his plans and discuss their implications.

We also have new polls out this morning. In key battleground states, how do Trump and Hillary Clinton stack up against each other? We have it covered the way only CNN can, so let's begin with our Phil Mattingly.

Hi, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Alisyn.

Well, could there be a de-escalation in the Republican Party? Donald Trump facing a series of very difficult days inside his party with top officials, all looking towards that Thursday meeting with House Speaker Paul Ryan.

Now, there is no question that Republican officials are still struggling with the fact that Donald Trump is their nominee, both on the donor side and on the political side. But he is the nominee. And that means acceptance, even if they don't like it, needs to come fast if they want to win in November.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): An offer from House Speaker Paul Ryan, saying he'll step down as chairman of the Republican National Convention if Donald Trump asks him to.

RYAN: He's the nominee. I'll do whatever he wants, with respect to the convention.

MATTINGLY: Ryan, striking a conciliatory tone after a bombshell announcement last week that he wasn't ready to support Trump as the presumptive nominee.

RYAN (via phone): First, I want to get to know him and understand him better, because I really don't know him.

MATTINGLY: The two men still set to meet on Thursday, along with RNC Chairman Reince Priebus. Trump will also meet with Republican Senate leaders on the Hill. Former presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson reaching out to Ryan for a private meeting to help soothe tensions before Trump meets with him.

RYAN: Basically the kind of conversation I'm hoping we all can have is how we can actually unify our party.

MATTINGLY: Trump also making a big appointment, announcing New Jersey Chris Christie will serve as the chairman for his transition team, should he become the next president.

But party leaders, still weary of Trump's conservative principles. Trump fending off backlash over his economic proposals, accusing the media of mischaracterizing him in several interviews on Monday.

TRUMP: So it was totally misrepresented just now by you, and it was misrepresented, frankly, by NBC.

CUOMO: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa.

TRUMP: They go there to talk about like I'm giving a tax increase for the wealthy. I'm not.

CUOMO: Explaining his proposal with lower taxes for all.

TRUMP: If I increase on the wealthy, that means they're still going to be paying less than they pay now. I'm not talking about increasing from this point. I'm talking about increasing from my tax proposal.

MATTINGLY: Trump also on the defensive over his plan to repay the national debt, insisting he never said the U.S. should default or attempt to renegotiate with creditors as reported.

TRUMP: This is the United States government. First of all, you never have to default, because you print the money. I said, if we can buy back government debt at a discount. In other words, if interest rates go up and we can buy bonds back at a discount, in other words, if interest rates go up and we can buy bonds back at a discount, if we are liquid enough as a country, we should do that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And a full day yesterday, really, of Donald Trump explaining, trying to clarify, on some cases trying to backtrack on his economic proposals. It's not necessarily something we saw a lot during the primary, guys. And that's very interesting.

You talk to Hillary Clinton's advisers, that is what they want to do in the days, weeks and months ahead in this general election campaign. Tie him up day after day on policy issues. We'll see if that sticks going forward. Donald Trump for his part, I think, safe to say, looking towards Thursday and meeting with Republican officials in Washington.

BERMAN: The Paul Ryan primary. West Virginia today and Paul Ryan on Thursday. Phil Mattingly, thanks so much.

On the Democratic side, polls opened in West Virginia 30 minutes ago. Eight years ago, Hillary Clinton dominated then challenger Barack Obama there, but Clinton faces a different contest this time around.

[07:05:05] CNN's Jean Casarez is live in Charleston this morning with more. Good morning, Jean.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. You know, the polls opened, just as you said, at 6:30. And there's been a steady stream of voters. And state officials believe this could be a record-setting day for primary votes cast, if the early voting has any indication.

We just spoke to one voter that just came out. And it's very interesting. As you said, this is coal country. I mean, this is the heart of coal country, and the people of this state still remember, they say, Hillary Clinton saying to CNN's town hall in March that she would shut down the mines and coal miners would be out of jobs.

Now, she said that she misspoke, and that what she really is proponent of is bringing new industry to West Virginia, but the voter I just spoke with said that people cannot forget that statement. And I said, well, is it veering people to vote for Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump?

And he said, Donald Trump. That even though that he is the lone Republican candidate standing now, people are going to vote today and come out for him.

Let's look at these early voting totals, though. You'll see it's record breaking for the state. 2016, already almost 101,000 early votes were cast. In 2012, the last presidential election year, 57,000, a little over that, and then in 2008, almost 69,000. So you can see how many more this year.

And the question is, Bernie Sanders. He has supported the coal industry, although also saying that new industry comes into the state, and that's what he supports. Will that be reflective on the Democratic side --Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Jean, you'll be watching it all day. Thanks so much.

We do have some new Quinnipiac polls to show you. This is in key battleground states. Look at Ohio. This is where Donald Trump is beating Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical general election matchup.

Look at this. Things are razor-tight in Florida and Pennsylvania, as well. Let's discuss this and so much more with Trump's national campaign co-chairman and policy adviser Sam Clovis.

Good morning, Sam.

SAM CLOVIS, NATIONAL CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN AND POLICY ADVISOR, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Good morning. How are you?

Doing well. How do you explain the strength that you're seeing there and the numbers showing Donald Trump in these key battleground states? CLOVIS: Well, I think you know, we've talked about this before,

Alisyn. The dust starts to settle. We're going to start to see more coalescing here. I think this is an important meeting we have coming up Thursday, and coming down to Washington. Mr. Trump's coming down to Washington to talk to Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and others.

I think this is an important step forward for us. I think it's --it's going to work very well in our favor. I think we're going to start to see more and more people when they start to compare. This is the thing that I've asked all of the policy people to look at, and all of the things I think is important for our campaign is to make sure that we have a way to compare and contrast Donald Trump's positions on issues with those of Hillary Clinton.

Ask the question that is always asked: are you better off today than you were eight years ago? And do you want for want four more years of this? And I think those are the questions going forward. People are going to find it easy to answer.

CAMEROTA: Well, you're right about that. Because we've been reading the internals of these polls, and it shows that voters do believe the economy is their No. 1 concern, and they believe that Donald Trump is strong on the economy.

Now, this poll was taken before Trump said some of the confusing things about his economic policies that he said yesterday. So we're glad you're here so that you can help clarify some of these things that confused people. Let's start with the debt, the national debt. And let's remind people some of the things that Donald Trump said about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP (via phone): First of all, you never have to default, because you print the money, I hate to tell you.

I'm the king of debt. I understand debt better than probably anybody. I know how to -- I know how to deal with debt. If there's a chance to buy back debt at a discount, in other words, interest rates and the bonds go down, you can buy debt, that's what I'm talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. So Sam, historically, the U.S. doesn't make deals about its debt. Would Mr. Trump change that?

CLOVIS: Well, I think what we're talking about is if we reach a point of extremis in this country, where we might have to do that. I don't think we're going to have to do that.

CAMEROTA: What does that mean? What would be scenario be that would require to be negotiated?

CLOVIS: I think this is, again -- I don't think we're going to get to that point, because if we can get the economic growth that we think we're going to get with our tax plan. If we go through all of this process, we're going to be able to raise the GDP past the debt, which is one of the first measures that we have to go. And you can ask any economist out there that's important.

And then once we balance the budget, we'll be able to start paying down the debt.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CLOVIS: This is what happens in circumstances -- look at what's going on in the E.U. Now, let me finish, Alisyn. You asked a question. Let me finish the answer.

CAMEROTA: And I'm waiting for the answer, about what the scenario would be. Go ahead.

CLOVIS: The answer for me is that this is a possibility. Because you can see what tactics have been used by the European Central Bank and by other central banks around the world in dealing with these kind of crises when countries move into those kind of circumstances.

[07:10:05] I don't think we're going to get there. Mr. Trump doesn't think we're going to get there. He's just explaining that that is a technique that is possible if things get that bad. And I don't think we're going to get there, and he doesn't think we're going to there. So this is where we are.

CAMEROTA: Just spell out that circumstance for us. What is that scenario? Hyperinflation?

CLOVIS: Well, no I don't think it's hyperinflation, because I don't think we're going to get there. That is notorious and has been for the last 50 years. You know, the demon under the bed has always been inflation. And this is one of the things we've had the fed fight for and suppress.

So that's the monetary policy that's likely to be in place, but I think what the circumstances are if we continue to spend, you know, outrageously and we continue to move our debt out past our GDP, to the point where we -- the debt servicing them becomes a real issue.

This is the -- this is a real challenge, and this is looming over the horizon. And I think that servicing is going to be a big issue for us, if we don't get the spending under control.

CAMEROTA: So we're $19 trillion in debt.

CLOVIS: Right.

CAMEROTA: So you're saying that if it gets any worse, Mr. Trump would be willing to renegotiate somehow?

CLOVIS: I would say a lot worse. Because we already -- before -- before Mr. Trump takes office, we're likely to see $21 trillion in debt. So we really don't know what ground truth is on January 20th of 2017, and this is one of the things that we have to start talking about.

We have to take a look at all of the consequences of this profligate spending that we have going on in this country and the fact that we're not doing anything about it.

And neither side is doing anything about it. And this is something that has to be addressed, and the Trump administration will.

CAMEROTA: OK, taxes. Does Mr. Trump support higher taxes on the wealthy or not?

CLOVIS: The point is that we have a tax plan that's in place out there. And I think we know that we're not likely to get everything that we want in that tax plan. We're likely to have to give a little bit. So the point of departure is what's in our tax plan or what we enter into negotiation with. It may be considerably lower tax rates than what we have in our tax plans, because we want to be able to establish lower taxes for everyone in this country, particularly those in the middle class and lower middle class, so that they have more money in their pockets.

So the point of departure is what we submit to Congress for consideration. Not what the current tax rates are, which are outrageous, by the way.

CAMEROTA: But Mr. Trump had said he would be willing to raise taxes on the wealthiest, himself included. He had said that. Let me just play it for you, Sam, before you counter it. Let me play what he said about taxes going up for the wealthy. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe in raising taxes on the wealthy?

TRUMP: I do. I do, including myself.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: Do you want taxes on the wealthy to go up or down?

TRUMP: They will go up a little bit, and they may go up, you know...

STEPHANOPOULOS: But they're going down in your plan?

TRUMP: I don't know. In my plan, they're going down, but by the time it's negotiated, they'll go up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: You can forgive people, Sam, for being confused. Originally...

CLOVIS: I'm not confused. I know exactly what he said.

CAMEROTA: OK. What did he mean when he said to Savannah Guthrie, there -- yes, I support taxes going up including for myself?

CLOVIS: From point of departure to what we submit to Congress. And right now, the highest tax rate's 25 percent on a personal income tax. And that -- that's the point of departure.

We may submit a lower number than that, and then that's what we're going to negotiate from. When we talk to Congress about our tax plan, this is the time. We have the time for fundamental tax reform in this country and this is the point we'll make. It if we have to go a little higher than what we've offered up to Congress, we're likely to do that to negotiate to make sure we get the whole package for everybody.

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, Sam, who is Donald Trump's economic adviser or advisers?

CLOVIS: Well, we have a host of those. I think there are a lot of them that are very prominent in -- around this area, and rather than...

CAMEROTA: Such as?

CLOVIS: Well, I don't want to get into that. You can -- you can sort that out yourself, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: But Sam, why not tell their names? Why is it secret?

CLOVIS: Well, the reason is, because a lot of them have contractual arrangements, provide advice to this campaign. And we don't want to interfere with their private lives or how they make money. So this is where we are.

CAMEROTA: All right. Sam Clovis, all right. Appreciate you being on NEW DAY.

CLOVIS: All right. Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. Programming note. CNN's Jake Tapper will have an exclusive interview this afternoon with Marco Rubio. This is Rubio's first since dropping out of the Republican presidential rate. This is at 4 p.m. Eastern on "THE LEAD" right here on CNN -- Chris.

CUOMO: So the state of North Carolina says your sex is what your birth certificate says it is, period. Not how you identify. That's the bottom line with its transgender bathroom restriction law.

The federal government says transgender is a guaranteed category of equal protection under law. So now both sides are suing. CNN correspondent Martin Savidge live at the CNN Center with more on this.

What is the state of play, my friend?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

You know, what started as a debate over a bathroom is now likely to end up in a federal courtroom, and essentially, North Carolina is not backing down. It's doubling down, suing the federal government.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): An escalating legal battle in North Carolina over the state's controversial so-called bathroom law. North Carolina and the Justice Department filing dueling lawsuits within hours of each other, trading accusations of civil rights violations and government overreach.

[07:15:21] LYNCH: The legislature and the governor placed North Carolina in direct opposition to federal laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sex and gender identity. They created state-sponsored discrimination against transgender individuals.

SAVIDGE: The state's governor responding to a Justice Department demand to drop the law or amend it with a lawsuit of his own.

GOV. PAT MCCRORY (R), NORTH CAROLINA: We believe a court rather than a federal agency should tell our state, our nation and employers across the country what the law requires.

SAVIDGE: The most controversial provision bans transgender people from using public bathrooms that do not correspond with the sex listed on their birth certificate. Attorney General Loretta Lynch, a North Carolina native, comparing the law to segregation.

LYNCH: It was not so very long ago that states including North Carolina had other signs above restrooms, water fountains and on public accommodations, keeping people out based on a distinction without a difference.

SAVIDGE: North Carolina countering, saying the Obama administration is attempting to rewrite the law for public and private employers across the country.

MCCRORY: This is not just a North Carolina issue. This is now a national issue. I think it's time for the U.S. Congress to bring clarity to our national anti-discrimination provisions under Title VII and Title IX.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Among those that are caught up in the middle of all of this is the public university system of North Carolina, including the storied University of North Carolina. It came out with a statement saying it will abide by federal law.

But, of course, the governor of its state is questioning just what is federal law here? And waiting for a court to decide -- John.

BERMAN: And that could happen. The question is when? Martin Savidge, thanks so much.

Eight passengers hurt in midair when a JetBlue flight hit some serious turbulence last night. The plane was headed to Orlando from San Juan when it happened. Ambulances were able to take the injured from the tarmac right to the hospital to get checked out.

CAMEROTA: We have an update now on the Hillary Clinton e-mail controversy. The State Department says it cannot locate e-mails sent or received by Brian Pagliano. That's the staffer who set up Hillary Clinton's private server during her years as secretary of state. This according to the Republican National Committee. Pagliano refused to answer questions last year when he appeared before Congress, but he accepted an offer of immunity from the Justice Department in March and has since faced questioning from the FBI.

CUOMO: We're about to show you something you only want to see on your TV screen or computer monitor. Massive tornadoes. Take a look at this. Imagine this being in your path. At least two people lost their lives because of massive twisters in Oklahoma. You can see this going through Oklahoma City. This is where this is. It's a very residential area. A big population.

Let's bring in CNN meteorologist Chad Myers with what you need to know. You know, thank God there weren't more people in that kind of populated area with these multiple twisters coming down. What's the deal?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Something else that storm did, it rolled right across I-35 as a tornado on the ground with people driving right into it. So that's dangerous, and that's why you should have an app on your phone that knows where you are. Turn the GPS on if you're driving through severe weather, and you will get warnings right there.

There were over 20 tornados yesterday, and many of them on the ground for a long time. Eight to 20 miles on the longest tracks. So they were blowing, and they were spinning, and they were going for quite away.

There will be more tornadoes today, not that many but they'll be around.

Let me show you from a different perspective, from a different direction. I mean, we have almost to Roth and then here. This is the storm on the ground churning under that roadway, taking buildings with it. I've seen pictures this morning now with first light where some of the homes only have a foundation left. We'll have to see how big this $, storm was when at its widest. But literally, this thing could have been 130 to 160 miles per hour, guys.

Back to you.

CAMEROTA: Wow. Thank you very much.

CUOMO: All right. So big headline this morning. Clinton and Trump. We know that they're at the top of the polls. Right? We know they may be the best-known man and woman in the world. Right?

But they also share another quality. Lots of haters, and that's why there's been talk about a third-party candidate maybe sneaking in. Often discussed as speculation. But you know what? There's already a third-party candidate running right now, former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson. He's on a Libertarian line. You're going to get to listen to his pitch as to why he should be your choice, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:23:58] CUOMO: All right. When you look at Trump and Clinton, you see people with very high favorables, certainly as celebrities. But also huge, actually unprecedented unfavorables.

So what does that mean? That means you're going to have a pretty locked-up race. And that's why people are talking about a third party and that's why we want to introduce to you former New Mexico governor, who is heading the libertarian ticket. Gary Johnson joining us now.

Governor, thank you for being on.

GOV. GARY JOHNSON (L), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you very much for having me on.

CUOMO: So we're talking about these polls that just came out in Quinnipiac show that in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Clinton and Trump locked up. Trump actually has a four-point lead in Ohio, which is going to be the big headline for people. But it shows margins are very, very close. Shows that there's room, maybe, for an alternative.

You're saying, "Well, maybe if I were included in these polls, I may have a better chance of being that." Make your case.

JOHNSON: Well, that's the key for me, is just being in the polls. I was in a Monmouth poll a month ago and was at 11 percent. I think there's justification for me being in that poll. I'm going to be the only third party, and that's if I'm the nominee, Chris. I've got to get the nomination. That's at the end of this month.

But libertarian nominee is going to be on the ballot in all 50 states. When you have Hillary and when you have Trump I think the two most polarizing figures in hey, where is the 50 percent of Americans that now declare themselves as independent? Which is the phenomenon today. I think the vast majority of Americans are libertarians but don't know it, and speaking with a broad brush, libertarians, fiscally responsible, socially tolerant, liberal.

CUOMO: So where does that put you as compared to Clinton and Trump and Sanders, by the way?

JOHNSON: Well, with regard to Trump, he's saying some things that I just think are ridiculous, and would disqualify any other candidate. I mean, he said 100 different things, but the border, for example.

Look, we should embrace immigration. Immigration is really a good thing.

CUOMO: Terrorism's a threat. You've got over 10 million illegal people here that many feel are draining job, draining resources. That's the fear and that's the concern. JOHNSON: Well, I think that the 11 million illegal immigrants

that are here right now is a great misunderstanding. They're the cream of the crop when it comes to workers. Statistically, they're committing less crime than U.S. citizens. They're not taking jobs that U.S. citizens want. It's not an issue of lower wages, unless it's an issue of language, and they're the first ones that recognize that.

CUOMO: Trump said -- they are sending us their worst. He said.

JOHNSON: Well, and that's just not true, and I am speaking as a border governor. They are the cream of the crop. They're really hard working. We should make it as easy as possible for somebody that wants to come across the border and work to be able to get a work visa.

And a work visa should entail a background check and a Social Security card. Building a fence across the border, really, this is just -- this is crazy. This is something that in the future, if we build a wall at some point in the our future, we're going to take down that wall for what it represents, and what it represents is something that this country is not about.

CUOMO: What about Hillary Clinton? Why are you to the advantage with her?

JOHNSON: Well, I think Hillary is the ultimate technocrat. What changes with Hillary Clinton? I think that government does get bigger. It tries to accomplish more, and I'm smaller government. Really, government tries to do too much.

And because of that, it taxes too much. And when it taxes too much, it takes away from my personal liberty and freedom to do the things that I want to do in my life.

And the drug war. We have the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. We have tens of millions of Americans who are convicted felons that, but for our drug laws, would otherwise are taxpaying, law-abiding citizens. The militarization of police. Black Lives Matter at the heart of all that, is the drug war.

CUOMO: Do you think that your stance on marijuana, that you are an advocate of it, you've been involved in the business of trying to create different uses for marijuana? Do you think that disqualifies you with the culture right now in America that does not believe the same things you might when it comes to drugs?

JOHNSON: Well, I hope not. I took the decision I took, businesswise, to make the world a better place.

On the medicinal side, marijuana products directly compete with legal prescription drugs that statistically kill 100,000 people a year, and on the recreational side, I have always maintained that legalizing marijuana will lead to less overall substance abuse.

CUOMO: We just showed a poll that showed that the numbers have changed. Used to be a third of the country was like, yes, maybe you should legalize. Now it's 58 percent of country. Yet there still does seem to be stigma.

JOHNSON: Well, total disconnect between elected politicians and the public. Sixty percent of Americans now want to legalize marijuana. But the campaign to legalize marijuana in Colorado was a campaign based on marijuana is safer than alcohol. And it is. It's safer than everything else that's out there, starting with alcohol.

CUOMO: And you're a big athlete. So you haven't had any alcohol in almost 30 years. You do lots of triathlons. So this isn't about an unhealthy lifestyle. It's about a healthy one.

Let me ask you this. You got about a million votes last time you ran and we always look at Ross Perot as the gold standard of the third-party candidate. He was 19 percent although leading both of the other candidates at both points in the race.

But how big an impact do you think you could have? What do you think it would take to get there? Because if you're at about 11 percent at best, you're not at that 15 percent threshold that gets you a lot of electoral opportunities?

JOHNSON: Well, there's no way that a third party wins without being in the presidential debates. To be in the presidential debates, you've got to be in the polls.

So right now, Chris, the entire focus is just being in the polls. Granted, if Mickey Mouse were the third name in a poll, Mickey would probably poll at about 30 percent right now, but Mickey's not on the ballot in all 50 states. So where is that voice? Where's the voice of 50 percent of Americans today that are declaring themselves independent?

CUOMO: Does Sanders have more rightful claim to that voice than you do?