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Trump and Ryan Meeting; Civil War in Syria; Money Raised for Vets; Trump Attacks Evangelical Leader. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 10, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:30:03] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Presumptive nominee for the GOP, Donald Trump, preparing for a big meeting Thursday with House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Republican leaders. What is the situation going in? What do we hope for coming out if we're Donald Trump's perspective? Wisconsin Congressman Sean Duffy, Trump supporter, joins us now.

Congressman, always a pleasure.

REP. SEAN DUFFY (R), WISCONSIN: Chris, good to see you. Thank you.

CUOMO: You know Paul Ryan. Where do you believe his head is right now? Is it fairly reported that he doesn't know if he's ready for Donald Trump or not?

DUFFY: Well, Paul Ryan is an honest guy and I think he shoots straight with everybody. I think what he says, he means. But you have to understand, you know, Paul Ryan has been in Congress since he's been 28 years old. Almost 20 years on the Hill working on policy to fix our country, grow our economy, keep us strong overseas. I think Paul Ryan wants to make sure that Donald Trump buys into the - to the issues and the policies that we've been working on in the House. And I don't know that he feels secure with that yet.

And so this is a great opportunity for the two of them to sit down, have a face-to-face meeting, have a conversation about where Paul Ryan and the House Republicans want to take the country, where does Donald Trump want to take the country, and can they come to some agreement and some vision for where they want to go. And I think if that happens, I think you'll see Paul Ryan get on board.

CUOMO: Why do you think Speaker Ryan said, hey, if he wants me to step down from the convention, I will. It sounds very fatalistic.

DUFFY: I don't think so. I - you know, listen, Paul Ryan, this is - this is not the dream job to be the chair of the convention. He's the speaker. He understands, as a former vice presidential nominee, that - that our nominee gets to make that decision. He's not going to fight to keep the gavel at the convention and says if Donald Trump wants to make that choice, so be it. I thought it was the right call on his part. Why fight about the convention gavel?

I think what - I think this is more about policy. And in the end, I think after this meeting, I - listen, I haven't talked to Paul about this and what he expects, but I think that in the end there will be a unifying moment coming out of that meeting and you'll start to see more conservatives rally around Donald -

CUOMO: You don't think it will be incremental? You think this is going to be an occasion?

DUFFY: I think with - with Paul Ryan, I think it will be on Thursday. I think it's going to be a good meeting.

CUOMO: But do you think this is going to matter, this meeting? It won't be like, oh, we have to talk more. You think they'll come out of there with something to say?

DUFFY: I - yes, I think the meeting will matter. Now, there's been some who have written on the conservative side that a loss in November is a win for the conservative movement. Listen, I disagree with that. I think if you look at how Barack Obama has subverted the Constitution, how he has skirted the Congress, and Hillary Clinton has learned from that over the last eight years, if she actually has learned from Obama and - and does what he's done, you're going to have a neutered Congress, number one, and a -

CUOMO: But just to make it (INAUDIBLE) to you, is that your concern -

DUFFY: And a - and a liberal court. And so I don't think it's a win. I think this election is important for conservatives, especially if Donald Trump is (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: Understood. The court we don't know. We don't know which way he'll say I'm going to appoint conservative judges, but that's a little bit of an unknown with him.

DUFFY: I'll take him on face value on that.

CUOMO: Fine. That - the fiscal policy side, we don't like that Obama has gone around the Congress is what you say.

DUFFY: Right.

CUOMO: Do you have any concerns about Trump on that? When he talks about trade deals, he said I'll negotiate better ones. And what are you going to do to companies if they won't return the jobs. I'm going to put a tariff or a tax on them. That's your job. Are you worried about when he says things like that and now what he just said about debt as a fiscal conservative?

DUFFY: So -

CUOMO: We don't have to worry about defaulting, we print the money.

DUFFY: But when you - when you - when you look at the negotiations, we oftentimes give the power to the president to negotiate, but the Congress confirms those agreements that are negotiated by the president. I think this might be a little bit of a misunderstanding on the part of Donald Trump. Again, he's been a developer here in New York. He hasn't spent his time in Congress. So I think how the process works, he may be a little naive to that. But when you talk about growing the economy, putting - putting people back to work, he has been masterful at talking to the middle class, growing - growing voters in the Republican side, growing people on our movement.

CUOMO: Most votes ever in the primary.

DUFFY: Which is amazing. And so I think, in the end, he would - he would be a partner with us. I don't think he's going to skirt us.

And, by the way, if you have two people who are going to skirt Congress, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, I don't think Donald will do it. I'd rather have a Donald Trump there, who is at least a right of center guy, as opposed to a far left liberal (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: No concern that he comes to you and you're at a meeting and he says, you know what, this debt thing, I'm getting beaten over the head with it, I'm tired of it, let's tell China we're not paying - we're not paying.

DUFFY: No, that's not (INAUDIBLE) -

CUOMO: And - and we'll push back and I'll get it at a discount. I do this all the time. Trust me, Duffy.

DUFFY: Well, listen, you know that's not - that's not going happen. I mean -

CUOMO: He just said, I think we can get creditors to take less.

DUFFY: But I - but I think he - he clarified that and was saying, listen, if - if interest rates rise and then prices of bonds fall, could we rebuy that debt? I mean I think he - he reclassified what he was saying. I mean he's not going to default on the American debt. He was very clear on that. I think he understands what that would do to the American economy.

CUOMO: He says you can't default because you print the money.

DUFFY: Well, he -

CUOMO: I'm just saying, these are things - I get it. I get where his head is. I get the business rationale for them (ph) very well.

DUFFY: Right.

CUOMO: But I'm wondering, to a conservative, that's anathema, those types of things. When someone says we'll print more money, you guys hate that idea.

DUFFY: Well, listen - absolutely. But he said they can print more money, not that they will print more money.

CUOMO: Right.

DUFFY: I mean I think you've got to be clear on what he's saying. You don't want - we don't want - we don't -

CUOMO: So you see it as suggestions, not mandates.

DUFFY: No, it's a - it's a reality. You would - and if he was saying, you won't default, you would print money. He's not saying that's what we should do.

[08:35:04] I think the main point is, if you lower taxes - he had a great conversation over the weekend with taxes - but if you grow the economy, you put more people back to work, you have more tax revenue coming in and you can address your debt. And that's a big part of the plan.

CUOMO: Quickly -

DUFFY: Yes.

CUOMO: You care about Puerto Rico and what's going on with debt there. Tell us why.

DUFFY: I do because Puerto Rico, they're having a humanitarian crisis. They can't pay their debts. So what we want do is in Congress, we want to drop a bill this week that will put in a control board that can help the island manage their finances, number one. Number two, a form in which the bondholders in the island can restructure their debt, which is important. But the key to a lot of your viewers is, this will not be a taxpayer bailout for Puerto Rico. We're going to make sure that we can implement policies that can help the island grow, more investment come to the island, and have more opportunity on the island for the Puerto Rican people. Forty-five percent of Puerto Ricans live in poverty. We've got to - we've got to help them by restructuring how the island works, not by taxpayer money.

CUOMO: Keep us in the loop on that. And, congressman, as always -

DUFFY: Chris.

CUOMO: Thank you for dealing with the concerns of conservatives about what's been coming out of Trump recently and making the case for him.

DUFFY: Thank you, Chris. Good job (ph).

CUOMO: Appreciate it. I'll see you soon.

JB.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris, thanks so much.

So remember when you heard that Russia was pulling out of Syria? Remember when Russia said that was going to happen? Forget it. Our cameras capture a much different story on the ground. A dramatic CNN exclusive report. That's next.

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[08:4018] BERMAN: This morning, CNN has an exclusive inside look at the civil war raging in Syria. Now Russia announced in March that it would withdraw its troops from that war-torn country. CNN's senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen found a very different picture on the ground.

Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi. Good morning, John.

Yes, no, it was really interesting to see. It seems as though the Russians have indeed taken some of their combat jets out of Syria, but at the same time it also appears as though they've moved a lot of hardware in. They have a lot of troops on the ground. They have fighting vehicles on the ground and even anti-aircraft weapons. Here's what we saw.

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PLEITGEN (voice-over): This is the Russian intervention the world has come to know, but Russia's footprint in Syria seems to be far bigger than just combat jets. There are thousands of troops stationed at its main air base, disciplined and highly motivated.

We caught up with this first lieutenant during his boxing practice. "I'm glad to serve my country here," he says, "and I'm not afraid. What is there to be afraid of in Syria?"

The west has criticized Russia, saying its air strikes target mostly moderate anti-Assad rebels. The Russians claiming they bomb only ISIS and other terrorists groups. But while Moscow says it's withdrawn most forces from Syria, on an imbed we saw what appeared to be several basis in western and central Syria with a variety of attack helicopters. Also, a brand new base in Palmyra for its demining crews, with dozens of fighting vehicles and even anti-aircraft missile systems.

On top of its own assets, the military spokesman says his forces closely cooperate with Bashar al Assad's troops. "We receive a great deal of information from the Syrian general staff," he says. "They are on the ground and close to the rebels. As for the military technical cooperation, of course we help them as well."

None of this seems to indicate a full Russian withdrawal from Syria any time soon. And for many in the government held part of Damascus, that's just fine. Violence still rages in most of the country. Reconciliation seems nowhere in sight and neither is an end to Russia's involvement in the conflict.

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PLEITGEN: So as you can see there, there's a lot of Russian equipment on the ground. A lot of very sophisticated Russian equipment on the ground. More than most people would have thought. But the thing that also really surprised us was the ease with which the Russians are able to move through Syria. It really doesn't look as though they're a guest here in this country. It looks as though they really are a full- fledged partner on the side of Bashar al Assad.

Chris.

CUOMO: Fred Pleitgen, thank you very much. Syria not in the immediate news cycle right now, but it's going to come back in and it's important to remember the state of play.

OK, so a big part of reporting on the election is, of course, dealing with the war of words, but also following up on what matters. Whether it's Hillary Clinton, with Wall Street speeches and whether they will be released. We stay on that. Donald Trump, now, you remember back when Fox had the debate and he skipped it because he said he was going to raise money for vets, raised over $6 million, vowed to donate it to various groups and there was questions, then and there are questions now about where that money went. CNN investigative correspondent Drew Griffin doing digging for us on this once again, had Trump's campaign manager on recently, asked him if they would help with this. He says the money is accounted for. We've given all that and then some. And it will be delivered over to the media. What did you find?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: I found the same thing that you found, Chris. A lot of promises from the Trump campaign about where this money went, but not a lot of answers. And it just shouldn't be that hard, number one. In the big scheme of things it's not that much money and the accounting is not that difficult to do. Independently, we've tried to go around the Trump campaign, asked these veterans groups what kind of money they got or were promised. Very few of them, though, Chris, have been willing to talk to us at all, let alone confirm what they got.

So here is what we have in terms of accounting for this $6 million, all according to the Trump campaign as of their last accounting. $2.9 million has been distributed, according to Trump's campaign, to 27 different veterans groups, $1 million personally donated, we're told, by Donald Trump himself. But that leaves $3.1 million, or roughly half of the money, yet to be accounted for. And despite those promises, we still don't have an accounting.

CUOMO: Now, let's give benefit of the doubt here. What could unaccounted for mean? Could it mean that people pledged and then didn't put up? Does it mean money was distributed, they're just not sure where? Is there any good explanation?

[08:45:09] GRIFFIN: I don't see a good explanation. And we should say that money has been distributed. And veterans groups that would talk to us were very appreciative of the money that was donated to them. But we've got $6 million, half of it accounted for, half of it not. We've been asking for four months now from this campaign, where did it go? We asked this of charities all across the nation. As you know, Chris, it's not hard to do. So we're just asking again. Trump campaign, please tell us where the money is, where it's going.

CUOMO: Well, it matters. It matters because it involves veterans and it's about the follow-through of a campaign, so we'll stay on it.

Drew Griffin, thank you for doing the work. GRIFFIN: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn, over to you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris.

Donald Trump now publicly fighting with a prominent evangelical leader. That could cost him so votes, or not. We'll talk to the man who is Trump's target, next.

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RUSSELL MOORE, PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN BAPTIST ETHICS & RELIGIOUS LIBERTY COMMISSION: What we have in the Donald Trump phenomenon, as well as in the Hillary Clinton phenomenon, is an embrace of the very kind of moral and cultural decadence that culture - that conservatives have been saying for a long time is the problem. We have this sort of reality television, moral sewage coming through all over our culture.

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CAMEROTA: Well, that's prominent Southern Baptist leader Russell Moore describing how he sees the Trump phenomenon. Trump openly feuding with the evangelical leader on Twitter, calling Moore a quote, "terrible representative of evangelicals and all of the good they stand for. A nasty guy with no heart."

[08:50:12] Russell Moore is the president of the Southern Baptist Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. He joins us now.

Dr. Moore, thanks so much for being here.

RUSSELL MOORE, PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN BAPTIST ETHICS & RELIGIOUS LIBERTY COMMISSION: Great to be with you. Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: When Donald Trump calls you a nasty guy with no heart, how does that make you feel?

MOORE: It didn't bother me at all. I've been called much worse over my life and time in ministry. And - and it didn't bother me at all.

What does kind of bother me is that we have a presidential campaign that's operating at this level. And this is - this is frankly very mild compared to what Donald Trump has done. I mean didn't accuse my dad of participating in the JFK assassination, so I guess that's a win. And I think when we look at this, I told my wife, if my dentist were acting this crazy, I would slip out of the chair and go to the car. And she just has a drill, not the nuclear arsenal. And so I think that there are many people in this country that just look around and see someone who is going to be sitting in the seat potentially of Abraham Lincoln, who is - who is acting in these bizarre and erratic ways. It's amusing at one level but disturbing at another.

CAMEROTA: Well, you've made your opinion of Donald Trump well-known. You published this op-ed on Friday in "The New York Times." Let me just read a passage from it. "It election has cast light on the darkness of pent-up nativism and bigotry all over the country. There are not so coded messages denouncing African-Americans and immigrants, concern about racial justice and national unity that is ridiculed as, quote, political correctness. Religious minorities are scapegoated for the sins of others, with basic religious freedoms for them called into question."

And I know that you're talking about Donald Trump here, but what are you saying about the millions of people who support him? He's gotten more than 10 million votes. Are you saying that everyone who supported him is giving in to racism and bigotry?

MOORE: Well, what I'm saying is, we have movements that come and go in American history and often many of these movements, when we look back on them, we see a dark and ugly underside to them. I'm not really all that concerned, relatively speaking, about who's up and who's down in terms of the political process. I'm more concerned with the witness of the church of Jesus Christ coming into 2017 and beyond. Are we going to be the people who are going to live up consistently to what we believe that God has revealed about what it means to be a virtuous people, what it means to be people of character. Beyond that, what it means to be people who stand up to the vulnerable, stand up for those who are - who are being mistreated. And we have a presidential election campaign so far this year that has been filled with the most - the most raw misogyny, along with race baiting, along with calls for violations of religious liberty -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MOORE: And so many other things that I think ought to give us a great deal of concern. And that's true on both sides. I mean we have Donald Trump, who is bringing his brand of cartoonish demagogic actions on that side -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MOORE: But we also have Hillary Clinton, who is - who is calling for a radical vision of America that is, in many ways, culturally and socially, at least, to the left of Barack Obama.

CAMEROTA: OK. So, I mean -

MOORE: So as we go into election 2016, we've lost already no matter what the outcome is.

CAMEROTA: Well, let's - but let's talk about that, Dr. Moore. What will evangelicals do who share your feelings? What will they do given - if that's the choice on election day?

MOORE: Well, I think many evangelicals are still in a - a state of shock right now. I hear from lots of evangelicals who are asking, does this mean that God is judging America? That we've been put in a place with only these options in front of us and the potential of these presidencies in front of us? And so I think you're going to have evangelicals doing different things. I think some evangelicals are going to follow the old standard procedures of just picking a lesser of two evils and choosing that person. But even then, I think, with very little enthusiasm.

CAMEROTA: And -

MOORE: And I think you're going to have lots of other evangelicals who are going to consider a third party - party options or write in a candidate -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MOORE: Or simply conscientiously object to that.

CAMEROTA: And -

MOORE: Because we're people who have been taught that you cannot do evil -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MOORE: In order that good may result.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Moore, we only have a few seconds left, but how do you explain the support for Donald Trump from some of your fellow evangelicals, Pastor Robert Jeffress, former governor and pastor Mike Huckabee, Jerry Falwell, Jr.?

MOORE: Well, I think there's one stripe of evangelical that's always been drawn to this sort of character, and I think there's a vein of religious life that is, in many ways, Donald Trump is kind of a 1980s television evangelist just with a pagan sort of tint to him. But beyond that, I think there are a lot of evangelicals who are just really angry with not seeing results in Washington and they want to just shut down the whole process and start all over again.

[08:55:16] CAMEROTA: Dr. Russell Moore, thanks so much for being here and sharing your feelings on this race.

MOORE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: "The Good Stuff," next.

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CUOMO: We need "The Good Stuff." And here it is. Justin Snyder (ph), on a Chicago train. It comes to a sudden halt. He exits. He asks the conductor, what's going on?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN SNYDER: Well, and he had opened up his door and I could see again that he was distraught. He was kind of tearing up a little bit. And I asked him, I said, are you OK, are you OK, and he just kept saying, oh, my God, oh, my God.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: The conductor thought they had a jumper. He was partly right. Someone had fallen into the tracks, trapped under the train.

CAMEROTA: Oh!

CUOMO: So the man on your screen jumped into action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SNYDER: I noticed people out on the platform. They weren't - they were just standing around on their phone.

Could you guys just make sure - just keep this area clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Jumped into action. The 19-year-old woman, rescued thanks to Justin.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh.

[09:00:00] CUOMO: No life-threatening injuries. And some insight here. You know where Justin was headed. Well, put it this way, it helped give him some reason to want to help someone stay alive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SNYDER: I just lost a good friend of mine, Juan (ph). I'm here from Lakeview and I'm actually on the way