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Panetta's Perspective On The Election; 2016: The Social Media Election? Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 13, 2016 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The White House is expected to appeal a ruling from a federal judge putting a key provision of Obamacare in jeopardy. Listen to this.

A judge sided with House Republicans on the so-called cost sharing provision. Now, this allows the government to reimburse insurance companies covering out-of-pocket expenses. The judge says, Congress must approve those appropriations. Now the White House says this suit is purely political.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Two troopers, one from Massachusetts and the other from New Hampshire are now relieved of duty, suspended without pay, after claims of excessive force.

Aerial video showed punches flying after suspect, Richard Simone (ph) was laying on the ground following a high-speed chase from Massachusetts into New Hampshire. The New Hampshire attorney general and Massachusetts State Police opened investigations into this incident.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: The owner of Dallas Mavericks mocking Donald Trump during a Las Vegas hedge fund conference. Mark Cuban compared Trump's candidacy to a season of "Seinfeld" saying, quote, "It's the campaign about nothing."

He even joked around saying that he would be Hillary Clinton's vice president and just throw bombs at Trump. Cuban who says he has a love-hate relationship with Trump did credit him with inspiring voters who have lost faith in the system.

CUOMO: Response, reaction?

BERMAN: He's got a reality show, right? I want to hear more from people with reality shows. I think they are the people that should have more to say about the U.S. political system.

KEILAR: I sense sarcasm there, John Berman.

BERMAN: Jealousy. I want a reality show.

CUOMO: I don't like his conclusion is what I would do as VP is throw bombs. This general election will be one nasty affair, that's for sure. CUOMO: So people are starting to weigh in. The big minds, those who help shape what we see in government are starting to talk. One of them, former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta. He backs Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election. How does he defend her in the face of what is coming from the other side? You will get to hear his answers, next.

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[06:36:38]

CUOMO: Donald Trump continues to slam Hillary Clinton on her handling of the Benghazi attack, a controversy over her e-mail server, her high unfavorable poll numbers. These are obvious attack points as we head into the general. So what is the substance there? What is the right thing for you to be focusing on?

Let's get someone who has unique perspective on the subject -- Leon Panetta, former secretary of defense, defector of the Central Intelligence Agency, and, of course, chief of staff to president Bill Clinton. He's currently senior counselor at Beacon Global Strategies. And he has endorsed Hillary Clinton for president.

Mr. Secretary, thank you for being with us.

LEON PANETTA, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Nice to with you.

CUOMO: It is certainly a pleasure to have you here.

These questions around the e-mail server, do you believe these are disqualifying questions? Obviously not. You endorsed Hillary Clinton. But do you think she can get past them?

PANETTA: I do. I think that this election is not going to be decided on that issue. I think there are a lot of -- a lot bigger issues for the country to focus on. But, you know, she's admitted the mistake she made there.

I don't see where there's any substance to the charges because I think what was classified now was not classified then. So I think it's going to be tough to bring a prosecution.

But, you know, I think we ought to let the FBI do their investigation, and Hillary Clinton has said she's willing to cooperate in any way possible and that's what ought to happen here to resolve that issue.

CUOMO: Benghazi. Where does the issue begin and end for you?

PANETTA: Anytime you lose an ambassador and the others that were lost there, it was a terrible tragedy and there are lessons to be learned. But the reality is, that a number of investigations have been conducted on to that issue by committees in the Congress, by bipartisan committees, by a bipartisan commission that looked at it.

And they all determined that the event took place that nobody was made aware that that attack was going to take place and that every effort was made to try to rescue those individuals. And it just didn't happen. That's a tragedy and we have to learn from those lessons.

CUOMO: The Secretary of State then, Hillary Clinton, there are two ways to look at her record. The one is that she's presenting it. That I've been there. I know what the decisions are. Some things I may have done differently, but basically I was in line with what the president did. That was the right course of action.

The other is what Donald Trump and many of the Republicans have been espousing, which is this a nightmare. Everything is worse now than it was. How do you defend it?

PANETTA: This is a dangerous world we're living in. The result of ISIS, result of the threats coming from Iran, North Korea, Russia, China. And all of the efforts of the president and the secretary had been aimed at trying to take on those challenges.

The fact is, we took on al Qaeda and terrorism and disseminated their leadership. We took on the threat in the world, and, you know, some you're successful at. Some you're not successful at. But the real challenge is to provide world leadership.

And that's the difference between Secretary Clinton and Trump. I mean, Trump is talking about the world in a way that takes us back to the 1930s.

[06:40:04]I mean, he's talking almost isolationism, America first. He's talking about distributing A-bombs around the world --

CUOMO: But you know people better --

PANETTA: Those are crazy positions.

CUOMO: You know people better. I've known you my whole life. You know people as well as you know anything that you've done, and you know that people are responding to what he's tapping into about their fear.

PANETTA: Absolutely.

CUOMO: We can be attacked at home. ISIS seems to get stronger by the second. Everything that we seem to have done is counterproductive. NATO seems to have become a toy for Putin, who seems to ignore the United States' might. And Trump says he's strong, and Clinton's been the one who was there as everything went wrong. How do you beat that case?

PANETTA: The reality is that what we have to look at now is who's going to be the next President of the United States? And there are two tests that president's going to face.

Number one is to break the gridlock in Washington and to govern. You get some things done. Because there is a lot of anger and frustration about the failure to do that.

And the second thing is to provide world leadership in a very troubled world. Somebody who understands the world, who understands the threats in the world, and is prepared to deal with that.

Hillary Clinton has that experience and that capability, and Trump does not. You want to take a gamble with the future? I don't want to do that -- for my kids, for their kids, I don't want to take that gamble.

CUOMO: Politics aside, you say it's a gamble. What is your concern if Donald Trump's president?

PANETTA: I -- I'm not sure what he stands for. I'm not sure what his positions are. He takes one position one day; he takes another position the next day. He takes positions on, you know, immigration and building a wall, on getting rid of 11 million immigrants.

He talks about distributing atomic weapons so that it's OK if Japan gets atomic weapons, if Korea gets atomic weapons. He says these things almost as if he's not even thinking. And then, you know, the next day he kind of changes his position to try to soften some of the things he says.

CUOMO: So if he puts good people around him, that's not a fix? Politicians vacillate. That's why we need guys like you.

PANETTA: I think the challenge is whether he is able to have smart, good people around him that he's willing to listen to or is this somebody who is going to do his own thing, no matter who the hell's around him? That's the question.

CUOMO: Leon Panetta, you know what happens in the White House. You know what happens in the world. Thank you for making the case on NEW DAY.

PANETTA: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Pleasure to see you, sir. Back to you.

KEILAR: Big changes are coming to the nation's oldest youth football program. What is Pop Warner eliminating and why? We'll find out next in the "Bleacher Report."

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[16:46:57]

BERMAN: The Oklahoma City Thunder pulled off the upset last night eliminating the San Antonio Spurs from the playoffs and maybe ending a great career. Andy Scholes with more on this morning's "Bleacher Report." Hey, Andy.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. When playoffs started most of us pencilled in the Warriors and Spurs into that western conference final series. Hey, the Thunder had their own ideas. OKC jumped on the Spurs in the second quarter of game six opening up a 24-point lead by halftime.

Spurs would fight their way back in the game. Fourth quarter, Tim Duncan tries to make a move but gets swatted by fathered time. That leads to a Kevin Durant dunk on the other end. Thunder win 113-99 eliminating the Spurs from the playoffs. Big question for San Antonio, after 19 seasons was this Tim Duncan's last game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM DUNCAN, SPURS FORWARD: I'll get to that after I get out of here and figure life out.

TONY PARKER, SPURS GUARD: Every year is the same thing with us. You know? T.D. obviously, Manu, same question of year. Is he going to come back? We'll see. Going to be a long summer for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: In an effort to make football safer, Pop Warner is eliminating kickoffs in their three youngest divisions. The organization said the move is aimed at significantly reducing the number of full-speed head-on impacts in games.

It's going into effect when the season starts this fall and then after the season, Pop Warner said it's going to evaluate the results and then consider implementing the kickoff ban in older divisions as well.

KEILAR: That will be interesting to see if they do that. All right, Andy Scholes, thank you so much.

Donald Trump's former butler is making death threats against the president. His voice amplified by Facebook. Otherwise, you'd never have heard about it. That's just one way that social media has changed the game of running for president but at what cost?

CUOMO: And this Sunday at 9:00 p.m. on "PARTS UNKNOWN" Tony Bourdain explores the wilderness of Montana. He learns why horses are so important to life and sports on the plains. Take a look.

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ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN": Montana. Many have come to claim their piece over the years, but before the prospectors and explorers there were the plains Indians. They have been master horsemen since adopted Spanish-introduced mustangs in the 18th Century.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Black Jack Cruz called the Native Americans the sentars of the plains.

BOURDAIN: Better known as the crow, they were once part of the larger Hedasa (ph) tribe. Centuries ago, they split off on their own and wandered or were pushed by conflict with the Black (inaudible) in Dakota until settling here in the Yellowstone River Valley.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That horse became everything to our people.

BOURDAIN: (Inaudible) grew up ranching and raising horses here at Medicine Tail, (inaudible) which happens to be the exact spot where General George Custard had the worst day of his life. He raises horses for rodeo, for riding and for this -- Indian relay racing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The athletic ability on them kids is just amazing. The competition is intense.

[06:50:00]BOURDAIN: They travel all over to compete at this collar- bone crashing, bone snappingly dangerous sport, former other allies and former blood enemies alike.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Requires a lot of courage.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So what are the remarkable things in the 2016 race? Not just what it has been, but where it has been. Namely, not on earth, per se, but much of it in social media, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.

Joining us now, Dylan Byers, CNN senior reporter for media and politics, and Bill Carter, CNN media analyst and author of "The War For Late-Night."

Gentlemen, very nice to see you. One of the latest kerfuffles in this campaign over the last 24 hours is some social media posts by Donald Trump's butler. That in itself is a sentence one could have said 20 years ago in a presidential campaign.

But Tony Senecal (ph) is his name and he puts himself on Facebook that has a lot of people scratching their heads. He said about President Obama, Obama should have been taken out by our military and shot as an enemy agent in his first term.

Now this is something the Secret Service is looking into as a matter. Of course, the Donald Trump put out a statement disavowing this. This is a guy who worked for Donald Trump for a long time at Mar-a-Lago, but hasn't worked for him in a few years.

The statement says, "Tony Senecal has not worked at Mar-a-Lago for years, but nevertheless, we totally and completely disavow the horrible statements made by him regarding the president."

[06:55:00]The point here is, again this all happened on Facebook. This all happened on someone's account that once knew Donald Trump, and this in 2016 is an issue.

DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR REPORTER, MEDIA AND POLITICS: Yes, it is and I'm just grateful that my butler hasn't said anything controversial yet, but that's been good for me. Look, social media is everything, of course, and we've seen ways that it can be very positive for candidates and their ability to manipulate a conversation.

They can sort of put something out there, put out a statement and, of course, the press goes running after it. Of course, on social media, there's not necessarily a chance to ask them any follow-up questions.

However, by the same token, social media can be quite damaging to a campaign. You have so many people who surround the campaign. You have so many aides and sort of associates, and, look, social media gives everyone a platform.

I think you and I and everyone in our industry knows how tempting it can be to sort of say things on social media that would never make it past an editor or a producer.

By the same token, you have people who are close to these presidential candidates whose shot at the White House sometimes can hinge on something like this.

And they feel like they can go out and speak their mind or say whatever they want in forms, posts, on Twitter or Facebook, and that can get a candidate in real trouble.

BERMAN: You know, it could be dangerous, when out of control, but it can be very useful, Bill, when fully used in control? Right? I mean, we have all read tweets from one candidate or another or a campaign or another on-air as they come in.

Because it's a very quick way to communicate with the world and in some ways not that different than an e-mail blast that we would have received from a campaign 15 years ago, or a fax we would have received 20 years ago or an actual piece of paper 25 years ago.

BILL CARTER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Well, it's way quicker. It's more to the point and it seems like on an awful lot of social media now there's a bubbling hostility that, you know, can be transferred.

I think obviously Trump has been very effective. He is very piffy with his -- punchy with his language and now you see Elizabeth Warren coming back at him.

I think what really is -- it's setting up a negative campaign like we've never seen before. I think there is going to be negativity flying back and forth on social media way more so than we've ever seen so-called negative ads on television.

BERMAN: You know, it's interesting, Bill, you bring up this back and forth with Elizabeth Warren. Let me read you a couple of tweets back and forth Trump said about Elizabeth Warren.

"Up to goofy Elizabeth Warren, we have no jobs in America. She doesn't have a clue," that's Donald Trump. Elizabeth Warren saying, real Donald Trump can't talk about Wall Street, college cost or minimum wage. We spent all day belching insults. Pathetic. Really pathetic."

You know, the interesting thing. I don't think these two have ever met. Right?

CARTER: No.

BERMAN: This is a political debate that is taking place, again, not on earth. I don't even know if second life is still a thing, but it's almost happening on this completely other reality, but does it cross over, you know into real life campaigning and when does it start to effect votes, Bill?

CARTER: Well, I think it doe cross over now already because it's being amplified by other media. They're not just talking to each other. Everything is being covered by the mass media, the wider media. So it's amplified. They don't have to be in the same room. They can be very effective talking back and forth this way throwing punches essentially through the internet.

BERMAN: Dylan, who's -- go ahead, Dylan.

BYERS: I was just going to say I think Bill is making a really great point here. If this conversation were solely taking place on Twitter, it would be one thing. The point is that is where much of the national media goes to sort of get its news.

Because, of course, this is where the candidates are. Then, of course, we're talking about it on CNN or on the pages of the "New York Times" or across the internet.

But there is one other point here that we haven't brought up yet and that's the ephemeral nature or seemingly ephemeral nature of Twitter and of social media.

That's why it can be so tempting to say the sorts of things would you have never said in a press release or in a, you know, an e-mail newsletter that goes out.

You would have taken a lot more time to edit those statements, think about those statements. When it's on Twitter, on Facebook, you fire off all sorts of things you wouldn't have done had you taken time before hitting the send button.

BERMAN: I think you're both right on that. But it certainly increased the temperature and made it much more volatile all across the board. Both, you know, in cyber space and the very real world as well. Who knows what effects that will have on this campaign going forward?

Bill Carter, Dylan Byers, great to have you here with us. What is your take? Tweet us. How ironic. You can send us an @newday or ost your comment on facebook.com/newday.

We are following a lot of news including the Republican fight for unity right now so let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL RYAN, HOUSE SPEAKER: It takes a little time. You don't put it together in 45 minutes.

TRUMP: I don't mind going through a little bit of a slow process.

RYAN: It's very important we don't fake unifying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a whole lot of agreement on most issues. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The alternative is for more years just like the last eight. That's going to be enough to unify Republicans across the country.

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump will not become president.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The choice in this campaign could not be clearer.

SANDERS: I believe that Bernie Sanders is the stronger candidate.

CLINTON: We will have a big victory that will take us all the way to the White House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Zimmermann to sell the weapon that he used to kill --