Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Trump on the Defensive Over His Past; Clinton & Sanders Focused on Primary Battles Tomorrow; Corpus Christi Hit Hard by Flash Floods. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 16, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump on defense as new reports about his past raise new questions about how he treats women.

[05:58:35] REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIR: These are things that he is going to have to answer for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People have not expected purity on his part.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was not me on the phone.

"JOHN MILLER" (VIA PHONE): I can tell you this...

TRUMP: I can tell you this...

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Is his campaign seriously claiming that that isn't Mr. Trump?

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CONVENTION MANAGER: Donald Trump says it's not him, I believe it's not him.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For us to win the number of pledged delegates we need your help big time right here in Kentucky.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you vote for me on Tuesday, I will stand up and fight for you!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fireballs lit up the sky north of Baghdad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ISIS has claimed responsibility for Sunday's deadly attack on a gas plant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is ISIS on the defensive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, May 16, 6 a.m. in the east.

Up first, Donald Trump on defense. The presumptive GOP nominee dismissing a "New York Times" report revealing, allegedly, a troubling past with women. He calls it is a lame hit piece. RNC Chairman Reince Priebus says Trump will have to answer for things in his past, but he denounces any effort to draft a third-party candidate. He calls that a suicide mission.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, President Obama uses a commencement speech to blast Donald Trump without ever naming him. Obama telling graduates that ignorance is not a virtue in politics and slamming Trump's plan to build a wall and ban Muslims.

We have the 2016 race covered the way only CNN can, so let's begin with Phil Mattingly.

Hi, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Alisyn.

Well, Donald Trump really survived the primary, many of the attacks actually causing his numbers to go up. Things may be different this time around. It's general election season, and Trump is facing attacks on all sides. Even after leaving Washington on a high note last week, things took a definite turn in the opposite direction this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In politics and in life, ignorance is not a virtue.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Donald Trump facing a not-so-subtle critique Sunday from the man he's campaigning to replace.

OBAMA: It's not cool to not know what you're talking about. That's not keeping it real or telling it like it is. That's just not knowing what you're talking about.

MATTINGLY: The presumptive Republican nominee coming under fire amid new allegations of inappropriate behavior with women. Dozens of women revealing to the "New York Times" accounts of, quote, "unwelcome romantic advances, unending commentary on the female form, and unsettling workplace conduct."

TRUMP: Nobody has more respect for women than I do.

MATTINGLY: A defensive Trump lashing out on Twitter, slamming the report as a lame hit piece, dishonest, and a witch-hunt. Trump's allies offering a defense.

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: People have not expected purity on his part. What they're concerned about, they're deeply concerned about, is this: somebody strong enough to take on Washington.

MATTINGLY: RNC Chairman Reince Priebus acknowledging it's an issue he will have to confront but won't change the voters' decision.

PRIEBUS: These are things that he's going to have to answer for. All of these stories that come out, and they come out every couple of weeks. People just don't care.

MATTINGLY: Trump also denying reports that he used to pose as his own publicist in the '80s and '90s under the name "John Miller" or "John Barron"...

"JOHN MILLER" (via phone): He's somebody that has a lot of options. And frankly, he gets called by everybody. He gets called by everybody in the book, in terms of women.

MATTINGLY: ... despite previously admitting using both pseudonyms.

TAPPER: Is the campaign seriously claiming that that isn't Mr. Trump?

MANAFORT: I could barely understand it. I couldn't tell who it is. Donald Trump says it's not him, I believe it's not him.

MATTINGLY: Trump's latest controversies amid continued efforts within the GOP to mount a third-party candidate to derail him. Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse and Mark Cuban both declining the job.

PRIEBUS: They can try to hijack another party, and they can get on the ballot but, look, it's a suicide mission for our country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: So no clear candidate, no clear money commitments and, really, a very unclear path forward for any type of third candidate option. So some good news for Donald Trump there, and it's worth noting Trump and his team have pointed out that a number of his female employees have backed his leadership style, has complemented his -- the opportunities he's given them. Expect the campaign to start pushing those women to start speaking out on a regular basis in the days, weeks and months ahead.

CAMEROTA: Phil, thank you.

CUOMO: It seems like a lot of stink, but to hear from the Trump campaign, they say everything is going their way right now. So let's discuss. Let's bring in CNN political commentator and senior contributor for "The Daily Caller" Matt Lewis; and Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich; and obviously, Phil, you're staying with us.

Right off the bat, what they say is the headline for them is, "This is all you've got?" You know, these types of things, as Jeff Sessions says, not expecting purity. Nobody's looking at Trump, because he's some type of character role model for them.

So do you think that, by weathering this storm, he actually says, "Look, this was all they had, and I got past it."

MATTINGLY: I think that's the hope, right? But I don't think weathering this storm this weekend is going to put an end to these stories.

I think one of the interesting things that the Trump campaign has to get their heads around right now, and I think all of us have to try and figure out is the dynamic shifts when, all of a sudden, you're targeting a different slice of the electorate.

In the Republican primary, these stories weren't hurting Donald Trump. Donald Trump supporters weren't going to leave him, pretty much no matter what came out about him. We saw this over and observer again. That's no longer who Donald Trump is targeting. Donald Trump is targeting independents. Donald Trump is targeting disaffected Democrats. Donald Trump is targeting people that haven't paid close attention to these types of stories going forward. That's where the concern comes when these types of things come out, particularly when they continue to come out day after day, week after week.

CAMEROTA: Jackie, there's another way to look at these stories. And that is not to look at them as what happened in the past but to look at them as how he will behave in the future if he were to be elected president. So does he respect women? And elevate them to cabinet positions? Or does he objectify them and have a constant stream of are, you know, bathing beauties through the White House? And you know, when you look at the "New York Times" piece, it's both.

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": Yes, exactly. We've seen a little going on during this campaign. There's a story in "The Washington Post" a couple of months ago about him telling one of the reporters that was in on an editorial board meeting that she was beautiful. And these little things that you seem to hint towards one way and then, you know, he talks about women, as you said, that worked for him in the past and are willing to stand up and say he was a great boss.

So we're going to see a lot of this back and forth.

[06:05:11] But you know, Reince Priebus, the fact remains that that guy has the toughest job ever right now.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KUCINICH: And one of the things that was noteworthy this weekend was when you're listening to him talk, you notice he's not saying Hillary Clinton as much. He's not talking about what they believe the weaknesses of the Democratic candidate are. He's talking about his candidate and talking about his weaknesses and, you know, all of this spate of bad stories. And you have to imagine that's got to be frustrating for a party that has been researching Hillary Clinton for several years, and have all of his ready, and they can't even talk about it.

CUOMO: Well, so, Matt, let's talk about what they can't talk about, according to Jackie. You know, the pushback on this...

KUCINICH: They're in trouble.

CUOMO: The pushback on this is, "All right, so you got me with women, because I called somebody beautiful." That's what Donald Trump says. "But on Hillary Clinton's side, you have a past of her trying to destroy women's lives after her husband had destroyed their lives," and that "if you want to go into the past stink, that is the type of stuff that should stick in voters' minds." Is that the strategy?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it is and a sign of weakness, when -- when the chairman of the RNC, Reince Priebus, goes on TV and has to say, look, OK, No. 1, yes, Donald Trump's a bad guy, but the voters don't care, and No. 2, Hillary's bad, too. That is not a sign of strength, and that's basically a strategy.

Now, the point actually is a fair point. It's something that somebody like, you know, I ought to be pointing that out, not the chairman of the RNC. Hillary Clinton has a lot of problems. She's not a good candidate, and there are real questions about her that we should look into, and that we will look into. But that should not be used by the chairman of the RNC to deflect legitimate questions about Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: Hmm. Jackie, before we move on to issues, I just want to do one more beat here on the whole story that's come out about Donald Trump masquerading as his own spokesperson in the '90s.

And again, not because anything that happened in the '90s may be relevant, but because that shows that he pretends to be someone he's not, and then lies about it when caught. Because the "People" magazine editor said that he confessed to it.

CUOMO: There a guy for you right now named Ronald Trump, and says that he wants...

CAMEROTA: So is there anything relevant, do you think, to the campaign to be found in that story?

KUCINICH: This just creates more fodder, you know, for people who want to make him look ridiculous, which the Democratic Party is more than happy to do. This is -- they're going to look at this as a character thing, but they're also going to make fun of this. When we saw this on "SNL" this weekend. So I don't know that it's hurtful to have in the long run, but it just -- it chips away at the character now he's trying to build as this person who could be commander in chief.

CUOMO: You know, the idea Smerconish had Carswell on.

CAMEROTA: Yes, the editor for "People" magazine who remembers that he did confess to her about it.

CUOMO: And the idea of "Not only I had a tape, but he had a tape, and I don't have the tape, so you know, he must have put this out." I find that hard to accept, Phil. This has not done Trump any favors in terms of this being out there. Because it does raise what Alisyn is pointing to, which is the character issue.

This is funny. I don't care what anybody else says. It's funny that the guy was calling people up and pretending to be Miller or Barron. You know, that's funny. But when you lie about it, now you wind up raising the stakes, which is, "If you'll lie about this penny ante stuff, you know, what will happen when it's something that actually matters?" But how much purchase do you really expect this to get with an

electorate that is so emotionally toxic right now and is looking at such big-ticket items?

MATTINGLY: Look, to your first point, if you're going to strategically leak something, presumably, you have a strategic response set up for that. And that's not good for you, hanging up on reporters when they ask you about it, or denying it.

I agree with Jackie. I don't know how much -- how much play this is going to get in the long run, how this is going to affect how people view him. How many voters are sitting there going, "John Miller, John Barron, how does this make me feel?"

But what I do -- what I'm really surprised by is Donald Trump's ability to take an issue that comes his way, an attack that comes his way and kind of dispatch with it rather easily has been one of his primary positives throughout this campaign. His ability to do that over and over again in interviews with the media, on the stump, all of these things.

His inability to do that with this issue is almost stunning to me. Why wouldn't he sit there and say, "Yes, it's me. I was just messing around. It was a different time." What is his answer for everything. I wasn't a politician then. I was a businessman. I was just playing the game. The fact that he wasn't able to do that kind of causes you to raise your eyebrows.

CUOMO: This guy is in a box, too. Because you get Paul Manafort, need to be legit, sitting across from Jake Tapper, you know, who has given him an opportunity to do a nudge and a wink, and he's like "Yes, I can't even make sense of it. If he says it's not him, it's not him."

So now you've got to look at him twice whenever he has to.

MANAFORT: When he wants to be talking about terrorism, when he wants to be attacking Hillary Clinton, everybody at the start of every single interview is going to say, "Hey, do you mind giving us John Miller to talk to at the start?" Just in person. If he's a real human being, let's just let us interview him. And that all of a sudden starts to cloud over or cover over everything that he wants to talk about, issues he's been hammering home successfully up to this point.

[06:10:13] CAMEROTA: OK. So Matt Lewis, this raises the issue that, you know, there are all sorts of these Republican kind of thought leaders who are not comfortable with this character, and they are trying to figure out if there can be a third-party run. How serious do you think this is, and will it actually happen?

LEWIS: It's not serious at all. It's not going to happen. This is wishful thinking, and, look, you know, there's different -- different factions were against Donald Trump. You had the Republican establishment, but you also had real movement conservatives who were trying to stop Donald Trump. They couldn't do it. They couldn't get together on anything. They couldn't to stop him. I have no idea what makes them think all of a sudden they're going to muster the confidence to launch some sort of an effort to actually rest, you know, to stop Trump from winning.

So it's not going to happen, but I do think there is an important job for conservatives to do, and that is sort of be a conservative movement in waiting to go into exile, and that's why it's very dangerous...

CUOMO: In waiting to go into exile?

LEWIS: If Donald Trump...

CUOMO: That really rallies the troops.

LEWIS: I'm telling you, though: it may not sound optimistic, but what happens if Donald Trump loses in six months? But if conservatives have gone all-in on Trump, then they own him. That's the problem.

CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you for that entertaining bit there. We have more for the viewers. Stick around. We also have to talk about what's going on on the other side.

Coming up, also, we will speak with former presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson, who is leading the search for Donald Trump's running mate. Dr. Carson will join us live in our 8 a.m. hour.

CUOMO: And tonight, Anderson Cooper is going to sit down exclusively with John Kasich. This is his first interview since leaving the GOP race. Would he consider being Trump's V.P.? The answer tonight, 8 Eastern, only on CNN.

CAMEROTA: All right. Meanwhile, the Democratic rivals are still locked in a primary fight. More than 100 delegates up for grabs tomorrow in Kentucky and Oregon. Hillary Clinton also revealing that her husband would be taking on the key -- a key role, if she becomes the next president.

CNN national correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is live in Washington. Tell us more, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

What to watch for in Kentucky and Oregon today. This is ahead of tomorrow's primaries. Hillary Clinton, she's making a final push in Kentucky. She's making three stops. Actually made four stops Sunday, making four more today. This is a state with a larger African- American population, which is friendlier territory than in West Virginia.

Also winning here could help dampen some of Sanders' momentum. Clinton returned to her criticism of Sanders over not supporting the auto bailout, even though the statements have been called completely -- not completely accurate.

She's continuing to run this campaign as if she's already in the general election. She is hitting Trump with attacks lines like the need to talk about building bridges, not walls and like President Obama, she's suggesting, too, that he is too ignorant to be commander in chief. She paints him as someone who's unpredictable and dangerous for the country.

And while Clinton easily won the Kentucky primary over Barack Obama in 2008, this time she's coming under criticism from parts of the state, saying in March that they're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business. Well, now she is saying that she's talking up a new role for her husband, Bill Clinton, to reassure voters that they're not going to be out of work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My husband, who I'm going to put in charge of revitalizing the economy, because, you know, he knows how to do it, and -- especially in places like coal country and inner cities, and other parts of our country that have really been left out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So expect Clinton today also to outline her plan to protect coal country, including protecting the miners' healthcare coverage, retirement plans, investing infrastructure in mining communities, repurposing some of those mines.

And while Clinton is leading Sanders by nearly 300 pledged delegates going into tomorrow's primary in Kentucky and Oregon, Sanders now continuing to win contests, and he has pledged to stay in this race until the July convention.

So right now, Oregon is looking good for another Sanders pickup, but Clinton team believes the race is competitive in Kentucky, and that's where she remains today, Chris.

CUOMO: Oregon's an interesting test, because it is a very progressive state, so you think trending Sanders, forgetting about the polls. However, it's a closed primary. He does not have a good record in closed primaries, only Democrats voting. We'll see.

Suzanne, thank you very much.

MALVEAUX: That's right.

CUOMO: Breaking overnight, the National Weather Service issuing a flash flood emergency for Corpus Christi, Texas. First responders rescuing people from cars and homes in the rising floodwaters there this morning.

Meantime, unseasonably cold temperatures right here in the northeast.

Let's get to CNN meteorologist Chad Myers. What do you see on that interesting board behind you, my friend?

[06:15:04] CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm afraid people in New England are going to be replanting their tomatoes, and I think that people down in Corpus Christi have a lot of water to deal with, guys.

I'll tell you what. It is going to be a wet day still in Corpus now. They have picked up radar estimates up to 14 inches of rain. Not the widespread area, it's picked up about six in the past about 24 hours, but this is a lot like what we saw in Houston, but a different topography and a different city.

A lot of the rainfall has fallen very close to the coast, and the water will go quickly into the Gulf of Mexico, whereas in Houston, it went into the bayous, and then they just went up into the city. This is not really the same story, but there will be more pictures today. We're just getting them in now of those high-water rescues for Houston.

Here's your cold weather across the northeast. Still seeing frost advisories all the way from upstate New York through Ohio down into West Virginia, and as a gardener, I can tell you, I hate it when it frosts this late in the year. It does warm up, though, New York City, by Friday, all the way to 74, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right. Thanks so much for that horticulture report, as well, Chad.

All right. Federal investigators on the scene trying to figure out what caused a deadly charter bus crash in South Texas. Eight people died, and 44 were injured when the bus rolled over during a trip to a casino this weekend. A state trooper believes the driver may have lost control on the rain-soaked highway. No other cars were involved.

CUOMO: All right. Here's a story that you think you've heard many times, but you haven't. There's a Florida woman in stable condition this morning after a shark attacked her at a south Florida beach. That's the part you think you've heard before, but this 23-year-old woman, do you see that picture?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: She was taken to the hospital, because there was a two-foot nurse shark still attached to her arm.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh.

CUOMO: The shark was killed before the fire department arrived to treat the bite. They were worried about removing it, because it was in so deeply. They didn't know if it would make it better or worse. Not a big shark, but can you imagine being in that predicament?

CAMEROTA: I don't like that. Get out of the water, and it's still hanging there? That is a horror story.

All right. That's a good segue. Back to politics. And the next key battles between Clinton and Sanders. Will tomorrow's contests in Kentucky and Oregon get the Democrats any closer to a nominee?

CUOMO: Who was the shark?

CAMEROTA: I don't know anymore.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:21:17] CAMEROTA: Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders facing off in two contests tomorrow. Those in Kentucky and Oregon. Clinton also revealing what role her husband Bill Clinton would play if she's elected.

Let's discuss all of it with Phil Mattingly, Matt Lewis and Jackie Kucinich. Let's just start right there with -- because Hillary Clinton revealed what Bill -- the long-awaited question of what role Bill Clinton would play if she becomes president. So listen to what she said in Kentucky yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: My husband, who I'm grog to put in charge of revitalizing the economy, because, you know, he knows how to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Jackie, what do -- what do you think of that?

KUCINICH: There's a couple of things at play here. Keep in mind, she's in Kentucky, where Bill Clinton has been very popular, particularly with white men who aren't exactly big Hillary Clinton fans.

But she's harkening back to a time where the economy was on the upswing during the Clinton presidency. And that sort of nostalgia is hoping to play well for her.

They've really put on a fight in Kentucky, because it seems they've sort of ceded these other contests. They're spending money. She's been there. I think she's done 11 events there. So this is part of that sort of, you know, renewed primary focus that they've sort of left by the wayside in the recent contests.

CUOMO: Phil, what do you make of Trump's new tweet? We're talking about the Democrats, but it's relevant. "Bernie Sanders is being treated very badly by the Dems. The system is rigged against him. He should run as an independent. Run, Bernie, run." Is this tired or a little bit of a distraction, or what's his play here?

MATTINGLY: Well, I mean, I think it would be a great thing for him if Bernie Sanders -- strategically, this is brilliance on Trump's part, yes. Get Bernie Sanders to run, split the Democratic vote and comes in pretty good shape right here. I also he's poking a little bit on this.

I don't think Bernie Sanders -- Bernie Sanders has made it very clear. Has no intention of running as an independent voter. I think the big question will be where do Bernie Sanders' ardent supporters, who are so opposed to Hillary Clinton, how do you get them to come over?

CUOMO: It will be an interesting day. If Sanders isn't able to make up the math, or however you want to calculate the odds, when he decides to turn it on Trump, I don't think his team understands who Bernie Sanders is exactly and what can happen when that passion is directed at you. That's going to be an interesting matchup, because the men have such similar movements behind them.

CAMEROTA: It's also interesting, because they, Matt, you hear the same sort of theme echoed from Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, and that is, the system is rigged. We keep winning, and yet people -- well, just talk about Bernie Sanders now, win states and yet the next day all of us pundits and journalists say, "Well, too bad. He has no chance."

LEWIS: Yes. It keeps happening, and Trump has pointed that out. Look, Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders have a lot in common, and they're both running as outsiders, kind of populists. They're against the adventurism abroad. They're against the, you know, trade deals.

But I think at the end of the day, when push comes shove, at least on the left, I think partisanship and ideology are going to win the day. You're going to see Bernie Sanders at some point, Chris is right. He's going to come after Donald Trump. And so I don't think -- there's always this dream. Remember back in 2008, there was this hope that Hillary Clinton and the PUMAs, her supporters, would help John McCain and Sarah Palin. It doesn't happen. You know, they always go home in the end.

CUOMO: Well, it didn't happen then. That's for sure. But it will be an interesting dynamic as it plays out, and it will be interesting to see how Trump will deal if Bernie Sanders winds up coming after him.

Now, a different problem for Bernie Sanders. One where I think that he's going to get more purchase is what's going on with the auto bailout right now? Hillary Clinton has been making a big issue. Why? Because the auto bailout kind of goes to the heart of the economy.

Listen to what she said this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: One of the big differences in this upcoming primary is that I voted for the auto bailout and Bernie Sanders voted against it, and I'll tell you what, looking at it now, it's even clearer I was right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:25:10] CUOMO: Jackie, is this fair? I mean, just so people at home, just to remember, there was a stand-alone auto bailout bill. It failed. Sanders and Clinton voted for that bill. They then folded the auto bailout into TARP, into the bank bailouts and some of the mortgage company bailouts. And Bernie Sanders and many others were ardently opposed to those bills.

So what's the plus-minus on this?

KUCINICH: Hillary Clinton, again, is trying to appeal to the Rust Belt voters who have kind of turned their back on her, an attack that's sort of been renewed by her. Is it entirely fair? No, of course not. Because he -- she hasn't mentioned, "Oh, and by the way, there was this Wall Street money where Bernie Sanders absolutely opposed tacked on to this." She's relying on the fact that, yes, I mean, the stark reality of the voting record, but it's not her job to give nuance to Bernie Sanders' positions. It's Bernie Sanders' job.

CAMEROTA: How do voters react to that, Phil.

MATTINGLY: I think it's difficult, right? I think Jackie and I probably both get cold shakes as we think back to September and October of 2008, standing in marble hallways and seeing talks about TARP and the bailout bills and the second iteration of the bailout bill.

CAMEROTA: Please, please.

CUOMO: Or TALF. TALF was nice.

MATTINGLY: The problem with Bernie Sanders is he's trying to explain that. Right? Like this is slightly disingenuous attack by Hillary Clinton. But how is Bernie Sanders going to talk about the two different versions of TARP and the auto bailout and like that?

I think the more interesting element of this is that Hillary Clinton is attacking again and attacking on an issue that she's used in the part and the reasons why. And that's because her team wants to end this now in Kentucky. They feel like they have a shot in Kentucky. It's a closed primary. It's people that they feel like they can reach. If they get the number of delegates that they're targeting right now, add the super delegates to that, they can save this race is officially mathematically over, and that means they don't have to spend money in California. That's why you're seeing the attacks right now. That's why you're seeing Hillary Clinton in Kentucky right now, and that's why Kentucky matters.

CUOMO: To echo Phil's point, I stood in those halls, as well, and I remember looking up right now, seeing a saying from Lewis Brandeis. The great dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

CAMEROTA: True then, true now.

Panel, thank you very much.

You can keep up with the latest political news and the state of the race. You can download our new CNN Politics app, available now in the app store for free.

CUOMO: We don't look good in that picture. Oh, that's not us.

CAMEROTA: That's not us. Right now, it breaks down where women lean between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton on the issues. Plus, why this will continue to be an issue for Trump in the fall. Check it out. CUOMO: Suicide car bombers store a gas -- storm a gas plant in Baghdad and spark this huge explosion you see on your screen right now. We now have a claim of responsibility and a live report for you, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)