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New Day

Massive Search Effort for Downed Plane; Clinton: Trump is 'Not Qualified' to be President. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 20, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY, and we begin with major breaking news.

[05:58:30] A development in the search for the missing EgyptAir Flight 804. The Egyptian military confirming moments ago that they have found wreckage and passengers' belongings in the Mediterranean Sea. The discovery comes more than 30 hours after the plane vanished from radar on its way from Paris to Cairo.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: What brought down the passenger plane remains a mystery. U.S. officials are operating under the theory that a bomb downed that plane, but there's been no claim of responsibility of any terrorist group.

We have the story covered only the way CNN can. So let's begin with Becky Anderson. She's live in Cairo National Airport with the breaking details.

Good morning, Becky.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Good morning, Alisyn.

We just heard that the French ambassador to Egypt apparently meeting as we speak with the relatives of the French nationals on Flight 804, who had traveled here, one assumes in the hope of hearing that their relatives had survived this.

But things moving very rapidly over the past couple of hours, and now news from the spokesman for the Egyptian military that, indeed, debris and personal belongings have been found in the area that they have been searching for, what, the past 30 hours or so, since news that this plane dropped off the radar in the middle of the night Thursday morning at around, we believe, between 2:29 and 2:37.

So relatives here, will be -- will be an awful morning for them, an absolutely awful morning. This is what we know.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON (voice-over): A sign EgyptAir Flight 804 has been found. An Egyptian military spokesman says passenger belongings and parts of the aircraft have been located north of the coastal city of Alexandria. As the French foreign minister insists that the Paris airport from which the Airbus 320 departed was completely secure.

JEAN-MARC AYRAULT, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER (through translation): The government strengthened all its measures following the January attacks. Everything has been done to reinforce everywhere.

ANDERSON: U.S. government officials serving as analysts in the investigation are operating under the theory that a bomb brought down the missing jet, but they have yet to find any indications of an explosion.

JOHN KIRBY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: I'm not aware of any sensors that the U.S. military deploys that picked anything up on this.

ANDERSON: The French foreign minister cautioning that terrorism is currently a suspicion, not based on any concrete evidence.

AYRAULT (through translator): We need to give the maximum amount of information in order to give the truth. We owe this to the families.

ANDERSON: The plane last contacting Greek traffic controllers at 1:48 a.m. but not responding to repeated calls just 40 minutes later. And after another 2 minutes, completely dropping off radar. Egypt aviation, pointing to this strange communications pattern, says it seems more likely to have been a terrorist act.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having a terror attack is higher than the possibility of having a technical.

ANDERSON: And Greek officials say the plane swerved, then plunged, before apparently falling into the Mediterranean. The U.S. officials say the swerving may just be the pieces of the plane in the sky picked up by the radar, supporting the theory there was some kind of explosion 37,000 feet in the air.

AHMED ADEL, EGYPTAIR VICE PRESIDENT: The aircraft scheduled maintenance was done on time. There was no snags or anything that was earlier reported.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: And the Egyptian president just in the past hour offering his condolences and regret, and mourning the loss of these people on the plane.

Clearly, the Egyptians believe now that they know what happened, that, in fact, this plane fell out of the sky and hit the water. Why that happened, though, remains a mystery at present.

It does, though, seem clear, Chris, that this will now move from a search-and-rescue operation to a search-and-recovery operation, being run by the Egyptians in conjunction with the Greeks; the French and British helping out, as are the Cypriots and Italians. A very, very sad day, particularly for the friends and family of those 66 people onboard -- Chris.

CUOMO: That's right, Becky. The situation had started with a measure of optimism, because this was an Airbus 320 and would be less susceptible to massive damage on impact in the water, and the water temperature itself, but those hopes have faded now with this extension of time. But the urgency has also expanded. There are a lot more countries involved now in a massive search effort, even if it is about recovery as opposed to a rescue.

And the targets are obvious. They're looking for victims. They're looking for debris. They're looking for flight recorders.

Let's bring in CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, live in Greece with more of that coordination, Nic. Led to a little confusion yesterday. People got their hopes up. Debris was found only to hear later in the day it was not the debris that they were actually looking for from this EgyptAir plane.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Chris. And I think the lessons were learned from that to build in some caution, knowing that this is the Mediterranean, knowing that there are not strong currents that debris kind of stays out there in the sea, debris from other incidents, we know the one of migrants crossing the seas here, a lot of debris out in the Mediterranean.

So lessons learned. Today the Greeks have two C-130 aircraft operating out of this island, Crete. They're involved in that recovery effort. Now they have a surveillance aircraft out there, as well. The United States has a P-3 Orion surveillance aircraft over the water, as well. The British from theirs base in Cypress, not so many miles from here, as well, have a naval vessel out at sea, aiding in that search effort.

The Greeks also on the next island over from this one have two helicopters on standby to go in and assist in the recovery efforts there. We're told Italians and Cypriots also involved in this recovery effort, but looking out of the...

CAMEROTA: We've lost Nic there for a moment, but we will get back to him.

And a major focus for the investigation: who had access to the plane before it vanished? The plane made stops in Paris, Tunis and Eritrea before it disappeared off radar.

[06:05:08] CNN's Max Foster is live from Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris with the latest. What have you learned, Max?

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, they're not ruling out the idea that the plane could have been sabotaged here at Charles de Gaulle Airport. I have to emphasize, it's just one of the lines of investigation at this point.

When the aircraft arrived here at Charles de Gaulle, there was a full sweep of the aircraft. All the passengers that were on it came off, and none of them got back on. So if there was sabotage, possibly it could have happened here.

But until there are victims, they're just missing people. And when there are victims discovered, then the whole investigation will ramp up another level. And there's a huge amount of interest in what could have happened here, obviously.

But at the same time, there's bemusement of the idea that anyone could have put a device on an aircraft here, which arguably is the most secure airport in the world right now.

Imagine the Paris attacks that both you and Chris have reported on. You saw levels of security ramped up to unprecedented levels, and even today we've had baggage checks on the entrance to the terminal. So it's being ramped up again today.

It's one airport where people cannot fathom how you get a device onto the aircraft. Having said that, we've learned today some huge figures that 86,000 people have security clearance to go air side at Charles de Gaulle.

And we've also learned that 85 people have had their passes taken away because of concerns they may have been radicalized or potential -- had potential to be radicalized. So there's an issue here. They're looking at it. No big official terror investigations here yet.

We're just told by our sources that they're calling it verification. So they're looking through all the evidence and the possible links here. And we do know that they are liaising. The French intelligence agency -- agencies are liaising with the American agencies and also the Egyptian agencies, as well, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Max, those are staggering numbers: 86,000 people with those, you know, special access badges. And then 85 of them revoked.

Thank you for all of that in the update.

Let's discuss all this with our panel. CNN aviation analyst and former secretary general for the Department of Transportation, Mary Schiavo; CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest; CNN counterterrorist and former CIA counterterrorism official Phil Mudd; and then aviation analyst Les Abend. He's a 777 pilot and contributing editor of "Flying" magazine. I can't imagine a better panel to help us figure out where the we are today.

Phil, let me start with you, 24 hours now after this incident where are you with what you think happened?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: The first question, why there's not a claim? That to me is not a clear indicator either way yet. Back when we had al Qaeda conducting operations, they would have claimed, I think by now, because they would have controlled the operation.

Transition 15 years down the road to ISIS. More loosely controlled organization. If they did this, they may be stepping back, saying, "What just happened here? Are we sure we own this one?"

I'm still not certain we have a terror incident for a variety of reasons. France is pretty secure. The plane didn't go down immediately. We don't have a claim. So I think this is still an open book.

CUOMO: Les, in just following this part of the analysis one more step, because, really, it has just as much credence as the other analysis, which is it may have been a terrorist attack. Absence seeing the fuselage and all of the evidence that will be examined, this is speculative.

Intel sources on the French side, they're still under a state of emergency, so they're very heightened. They say something very similar to Phil Mudd. These guys claim things when they don't do it, let alone when they have any reason to believe they have done it.

They also point to what we're discussing about these swerves in the air. They say there is an equal chance that that is something falling out of the sky after exploding, as opposed to a pilot maneuver, and they're looking at it equally. Do you?

LES ABEND, FORMER 777 PILOT: Well, you know, it's hard to say. I mean, we don't really know for sure where we're getting that data. I'm assuming it's Greek air traffic control radar. It also could be coming from the transponder of the aircraft that, let's say, broke apart. If it broke apart, the battery was still attached at the electronics bay, it still may be coming out with signals that talk about altitude and those turns.

But the turns to me say there's an airplane that's out of control by the crew.

CUOMO: Not broken up and just falling out of the sky?

ABEND: Chris, it's hard to say at this point in time. I think, we're getting, you know, the good news/bad news story. Good news, we found the debris. Bad news, is you know, this is the facts the families have been dreading. But at the end of the day, this is going to help us look at the evidence. And if it's not, indeed, a terrorist act or it could be a mechanical, technical issue or a loss-of-control situation as a result of any of these. We may get a little closer to that, in that direction.

CAMEROTA: Mary, I know that you think the lack of responsibility claim by any terror group could be an ominous sign. It could mean that, if this were, in fact, a terrorist act of some kind, it was really just a dry run?

[06:10:11] MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Right. There have been two major conspiracies in the past. One, of course, was Bojinka. That was back in 1995. And they did a first trial run, and the point was to try to see if they would succeed. And then the second run was going to be a dozen airliners over the Pacific. And their intent was, of course, to drop them into the ocean so that people would not be able to find out, investigators couldn't find out until they had the bigger plot to execute.

And then, of course, in 2006 we had what they're calling the British plot. Of course, it wasn't the British at all. What it was, was a plan to take seven U.S.-bound flights out of the sky from Britain. And that, too, was a terrorist plot, and that is why we have the liquids ban today. They were going to use liquid bombs. It would be very difficult to detect through security. A hydrogen peroxide bomb.

So we've had two major conspiracies in recent past where secrecy would be important in the first run.

CUOMO: Richard, one of the angles that's not getting that much coverage with the families here is that they create this room. It looks like they're creating a room, a command center so that families can go there for comfort. And they wind up being questioned extensively for hours yesterday. Ostensibly as part of the investigation. What do you make of that process and what are the pitfalls?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, the first, you know, the airline and the governments and everybody involved says that the priority is the families, the care and comfort and making sure that they are OK, and that they are given what they need psychologically, physically, medically, even financially.

But you're right. At the same time, the investigation has to get to grips with whether there's anybody on those flight lists -- may not be on a watch list, may not be on a terror list -- but by questioning families, you find out who these people were and whether they should be a person of interest or a person of suspicion.

It's a very difficult balancing act, Chris. It's extraordinarily difficult, because you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.

But now I think that the plane has been located, or at least we know that it has crashed, I think you're going to see a strong shift and bias towards the sympathetic treatment of the families to make sure that they are given the due concern and consideration that they deserve.

CAMEROTA: Phil, this plane flew ten miles into Egyptian airspace, therefore, Egypt is in charge of this investigation. Does that give you pause?

MUDD: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Do you think this will be different, Phil, because Egypt is in charge of the investigation? Will the timeline of the conclusion be longer? Will the transparency of this investigation be different? We think back to the MetroJet explosion that took them a long time to acknowledge that this was a bomb?

MUDD: It did. I don't think Egypt is in charge of the investigation. If you're -- if you're an intelligence official, there's a lot of things you're doing right now, regardless of whether the Egyptians are acknowledging that this was terrorism or an accident.

For example, we talked about looking at flight manifests. That was the first indicator for 9/11. Were there known players? All European, North American, Canadians, American security services are bouncing those manifests off databases. You're looking at what ISIS and al Qaeda guys are saying on the wires, for example on the intercept communications you're getting in. You're talking to your sources in places like Libya or Syria: is anybody talking about this?

CAMEROTA: So everybody has access to all of that stuff? Not just Egypt?

MUDD: Everybody has this. There's a public piece about whether the Egyptians acknowledged something behind the scenes. People like me in my old position are doing a lot of work regardless of what the Egyptians say or do.

CUOMO: You also have the French component here, and they've been reaching out for months and months now to get more coordination. And there's plenty to plumb just on that side.

But Mary Schiavo, on your side, you know, with your NTSB experience and people are going to want to look at the plane, you need the plane. And that does make Egypt more relevant, because they are going to be very high on the priority list of where things get sent. So how do you deal with that?

SCHIAVO: Well, actually, you've made the very good point, because it's going to be the plane, the black boxes and the condition of the plane that will probably give the first real hard clues. Obviously, it's important.

And I thought it was very important to put terrorism on the table so you start those assets and that investigation rolling. It's much harder if you waited for the plane and then say, "Oh, it might be terrorism." Because by then, evidence, witnesses, potential suspects have long gone.

But once they get the plane, they can check for explosive residue, any human remains which have that, if they're near the source of ignition or the explosive materiel. So that's going to be very important.

And there have been instances where, where the plane came down determined who was in charge of it, at least in charge of the civil air crash investigation. It's different on a criminal investigation, because literally, any country can jump into that criminal investigation, and they are.

[06:15:12] CAMEROTA: OK, panel. Stand by, if you would. We're going to call upon you throughout the program this morning.

CUOMO: With this new information that they believe they found, debris from Flight 804, we'll get into the particulars of exactly why they believe that and give you that information.

We also want to talk about the latest developments in the election. There was a big day yesterday. Hillary Clinton changed her tone with Donald Trump and with Bernie Sanders. But it was really the headline with Trump, where Clinton said she believes that Trump is not qualified to be president. She said it to NEW DAY, and you'll hear what her thinking is, next.

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CUOMO: Divisive, dangerous and not qualified. Hillary Clinton pulling no punches when it comes to assessing Donald Trump's ability to lead and protect this nation. We sat down with the Democratic frontrunner and asked her about keeping America safe in the wake of the EgyptAir crash. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[06:20:11] HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, Chris, it does appear that it was an act of terrorism. Exactly how, of course, the investigation will have to determine.

But it, once again, shines a very bright light on the threats that we face from organized terror groups. ISIS, of course, but then there are other networks of terrorists that have to be hunted down and defeated.

And I think it reinforces the need for American leadership, for the kind of smart, steady leadership that only America can provide, working with our allies, our partners in the Middle East and elsewhere.

CUOMO: How do you fight the perception that we look weak? Trump this morning was out hot and early on Twitter when this happened, saying, "Looks like another act of terror. More proof that we're weak. We have to be strong. There's a lot of hate and anger out there."

He's channeling the perception that a situation like this fuels which is, we are weak. They can take our planes when they want. The Russians, the Chinese, they can scare our military when they want, and America does nothing. How do you answer that?

CLINTON: Well, first of all, he says a lot of things. He says a lot of things that are provocative that actually make the important task of building this coalition, bringing everybody to the table and defeating terrorism more difficult.

CUOMO: Why?

CLINTON: Well, for example, when he says, bar all Muslims from coming to the United States, that sends a signal to majority Muslim nations, many of whom we have to work with in order to defeat terrorism, some of whom are already among our strongest allies in this fight. CUOMO: Do the Americans that that message resonates with, they

say, well, "These attackers always do seem to be Muslim, and they're coming in here, and Comey, who's in charge of vetting them, says he can't vet them." Trump calls for a temporary ban. It seems to make sense to people. Does it make sense to you?

CLINTON: No. Not at all. I mean, let's remember what he's called for and sort of break it up.

He has said all Muslims should be barred from coming into the United States. All Muslims. Nobel Prize winners, entertainers, sports stars, you name it. The new mayor from London. All Muslims should be barred.

Now when confronted with the new mayor from London who, as you know, is the first Muslim elected to be mayor of London, by the people of London, he said, "Well, I'll make an exception for him."

I mean, the whole approach is just incredibly provocative and wrong-headed.

And look what he's done just in the last week. He has attacked our closest ally, Great Britain. He has praised the reckless dictator in North Korea. He has said we should pull out of NATO, our strongest military alliance. He has advocated for more countries having nuclear weapons.

That kind of unpredictable, dangerous rhetoric and the policies that he throws out there for whatever hope he has to get people to respond to him, make us less likely that we're going to be as effective as we need to be going forward in assuaging the concerns of people that we want to be working with us to deal with this threat.

CUOMO: Let me ask you: Do you think that Donald Trump is qualified to be president?

CLINTON: No. I do not. And I think in this past week; whether it's attacking Great Britain, praising the leader of North Korea, a despotic dictator who has nuclear weapons; whether it is saying, pull out of NATO, let other countries have nuclear weapons the kinds of positions he is stating and the consequences of those positions, and even the consequences of his statements are not just offensive to people; they are potentially dangerous.

CUOMO: How so?

CLINTON: Well, as I mentioned...

CUOMO: Politicians talk, Madam Secretary. They say things, but then once they get in office, people believe nothing will be that different.

CLINTON: Well, when you run for president of the United States, the entire world is listening and watching. So when you say we're going to bar all Muslims, you are sending a message to the Muslim world. And you're also sending a message to the terrorists, because we now do have evidence. we have seen how Donald Trump is being used to essentially to be a recruiter for more people to join the cause of terrorism.

So I think if you go through many of his irresponsible, reckless, dangerous comments, it's not just somebody saying something off the cuff. We all misstate things. We all, you know, may not be as careful in phrasing what we say. This is a pattern. It's a pattern that has gone on now for months, and it's a pattern that adds up.

[06:25:05] In my opinion, having watched presidents, having seen the incredibly difficult work that they do and the decisions that they have to make, the thinking that goes in, sitting in the situation room, do we go after bin Laden or not? I was part of that. Was it a clear, easy choice? Of course not. Did it have to be carefully parsed and analyzed and then we all gave our opinions, but it was up to the president to decide?

I know how hard this job is, and I know that we need steadiness as well as strength and smarts in it, and I have concluded he is not qualified to be president of the United States.

CUOMO: You don't think Donald Trump could make that call in that room about whether or not to go after bin laden?

CLINTON: Based on what we know now, he could make it perhaps on evidence that wasn't clear; he could say a lot of things that might have given notice. I mean, you just -- based on the way he has behaved and how he has spoken and the policies he has literally thrown out there, I think it adds up to a very troubling picture.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: All right, Chris, you gave us a lot to talk about for the rest of the program, and we will do that, because you just heard from Hillary Clinton. Now Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are firing back to that interview. We'll tell you what they have to say. That's next on NEW DAY.

CUOMO: Plus, we do have new information about the wreckage of EgyptAir being found. Details coming up.

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