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Egyptian Military Officials Confirm Wreckage From Missing EgyptAir Flight 804 Has Been Found; Former CIA Director Fears EgyptAir Crash Was An 'Inside Job'; Donald Trump Doesn't Wait For Investigators To Call Missing EgyptAir Flight Act Of Terror; Hard 'Corps' Cycling For At-Risk Kids. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired May 20, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:31:00] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We do have breaking details for you. Egyptian authorities finding debris from EgyptAir flight 804. A portion of an airplane seat is among the items located about 180 miles north of the Egyptian coast.

French investigators and a technical expert from Airbus are now in Cairo to help narrow down what happened. Of course, terror is a primary concern and the disaster raising questions about airport employees and their access.

So joining us now to talk about all of this is the president of New Age Security Solutions and former director of security at Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, Rafi Ron. Also, we have CNN contributor, Michael Weiss, co-author of "ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror" and senior editor at "The Daily Beast".

Gentlemen, thanks for much for being here. It's great to have your expertise on hand. Rafi, I want to start with you because you dealt with the specter of terrorism every day in your five-year tenure as security at Tel Aviv's airport. So, why do you think that this was an inside job?

RAFI RON, PRESIDENT, NEW AGE SECURITY SOLUTIONS: Because I think that since 9/11 we have committed ourselves to deal with the vulnerabilities that derive from passengers, and we more or less limited ourselves to doing so. I assume that's the overwhelming effect of 9/11.

But we have neglected a wide range of other vulnerabilities, one of which is the question of who do we allow into the restricted area of the airport and how do we control movement of people and goods in and out of the airport?

CAMEROTA: Yes, and Rafi --

RON: And that is one of the --

CAMEROTA: That is a big concern and I want to stick with you for one second because we have learned some very staggering numbers about that kind of access. Eighty-six thousand people have these red badges that allow them more access than other people, and we now know 85 of them were pulled after the Paris and Brussels terror attacks because of some sort of tie to radicalization. So what do you make of those numbers?

RON: Well, I'm quite concerned that 85 had to be pulled out because they shouldn't have been there to start with, and that is the issue. If 85 people that are not supposed to be there because of security concerns have managed to get red passes that allowed them access to critical parts of the airport, as they are being called in Europe, there is a very serious vulnerability.

CAMEROTA: OK, Michael, this is the challenge of our time.

MICHAEL WEISS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, CO-AUTHOR OF "ISIS: INSIDE THE ARMY OF TERROR": Yes.

CAMEROTA: I mean, we now know because of these terrible attacks, how many people are radicalized so it would stand to reason that they even have somehow snuck into airport employees.

WEISS: Yes, and look, let's say this is ISIS. I've been banging on for several weeks now that there's a new phase that this organization is undergoing. It's the Europeanization of ISIS, its security structures, its intelligence operations, its foreign operations.

The head of the Amn al-Kharji in ISIS is a French national, born in Paris. He used to run or own some athletic clubs or gyms. He went over to Syria with his wife and his two kids. All of them are French. The wife is now pregnant with the third child.

This guy speaks fluent French. He's educated in France. He understands the city of Paris, he understands the West intimately. And as a former ISIS defector told me, he knows the strengths and the weaknesses of our society.

So, this is someone who will have had access to what I'm calling the Francophone network. The group of people that stand throughout France and Belgium, which were responsible for the Paris attacks and responsible for the Brussels attacks.

And the numbers of people -- and I mean, it's not, Alisyn -- not just about being an active or willing agent of ISIS. It's about being an informant to ISIS. It's about, sort of, dropping a dime and giving them logistical capability or support. It's being a fellow traveler or a sympathizer.

It's not the hardest thing in the world to find people working at international airports who may have the Islamic ideology or may actually just not like what's happening in the region, and have them either turn a blind eye, let someone in who shouldn't come in, or have them place a device in the cargo hold or somewhere aboard a plane.

CAMEROTA: And Michael, very quickly, yet, there's been no claim of responsibility.

WEISS: Which is very strange. I mean, look, it is the case that al Qaeda used to wage operations, both military and terroristic, and then sometimes wait days, if not weeks, to claim credit because they had to do the post-mortem on it, for lack of a better term, and find out was this, in fact, our guys.

[07:35:00] A lot of autonomy is given to these foreign cells. But, you know, look, ISIS claims credit for things they don't do.

CAMEROTA: I know.

WEISS: And it was, what, five hours after MetroJet was taken down they said, yes, that was us. It's now been over a day and crickets (ph), so --

CAMEROTA: So, Rafi, when you hear Michael talk about the challenges now of trying to combat radicalization that is so ubiquitous throughout Europe, what is the answer?

RON: Well, the answer is, first of all, to adopt a much more comprehensive approach to airport security. Analyze the wide spectrum of vulnerabilities rather than limit the angle to passengers as we did before. And use our available resources in a proportional way that will allow us a better control over what is going on at the airport. It is possible.

CAMEROTA: That is a comforting note to end on, Rafi, and if anybody knows how to do it, it is you. So, thank you very much for your expertise. Michael, thank you for all of that. We will talk more about this throughout the program -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, there's a lot of talk about whether or not terror was involved in bringing down EgyptAir and Donald Trump was ahead of all of it. He jumped to a conclusion early on. Was it too early? We're going to ask former New Jersey governor Christine Todd Whitman.

And this Sunday on "PARTS UNKNOWN" Anthony Bourdain is taking us on a trip to Georgia. Not the state, the country. And he's going to be reuniting with an old friend there. Here's a little look for you this Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN": Well, so we're eating at -- what's -- Khashi?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, traditionally, you know, Georgia is man's world. I mean, men drink, eat, party, and the women normally do know how to make people healthy and alive next morning after heavy drinking, so Khashi is a kind of broth and it's made of beef bones and joints. So, the whole idea is just suck out whatever alcohol still remains.

BOURDAIN: So, it's a hangover soup?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's hangover soup.

BOURDAIN: Oh, yes, there's tripe in there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, all the joints.

BOURDAIN: This is not the first thing I'd pick up for a hangover, actually.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, really?

BOURDAIN: Maybe this will help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It goes well with garlic. Did you try garlic?

BOURDAIN: Yes, I just stuffed a whole bunch of garlic in there and --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think it's marketable in the states as a real hangover dish and I think there should be lot of clientele?

BOURDAIN: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not really?

BOURDAIN: The Khashi is not really working for me, but I absolutely love the Chashushuli, the stew of slow-cooked veal with onion and tomato, heavily seasoned with coriander, fennel, garlic, and chilies. It's spicy. I mean, it's really got some good zing in there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, feeling better?

BOURDAIN: I am.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[07:38:10]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:41:45] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CUOMO: There is no shortage of theories about what happened to EgyptAir Flight 804. You don't have to tell that to Donald Trump, though. He is very certain about what happened. He actually fired off a tweet just hours after the plane vanished. "Looks like yet another terrorist attack. Airplane departed from Paris. When will we get tough, smart and vigilant?"

This morning, he's continuing to fire off tweets. "Look where the world is today. A total mess and ISIS is still running around wild. I can fix it fast. Hillary has no chance."

Let's discuss the implications of this on the election with former New Jersey governor Christine Todd Whitman. The criticism Governor -- good to have you with us -- is he went out too early, but he was right. That where everybody is right now, is saying it's terrorism. And he's also right that this does reinforce a fear that the world is unstable and America is weak in that instability. Your take?

CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN, FORMER GOVERNOR, NEW JERSEY: Well, he'll certainly play to that but, frankly, I think going out as quickly as he did reveals the kind of lack of experience because even when you're getting firsthand reports from people on a scene of any major incident, you know. You learn very fast that the first few one of those are going to contain inaccuracies.

And if you're somebody like the President of the United States, you want to be careful about what you say. It's great and I think he may be right on this one. This is certainly where people are leaning at this point, but we don't know absolutely.

But, he's decided it's ISIS. You don't know that it's ISIS. You have a lot of other groups out there that could potentially be behind this.

CUOMO: Well, on the tweets at least, Governor, he said --

TODD WHITMAN: The minute you go with something like that you put pressure on yourself.

CUOMO: He's just talking about ISIS in general. Look, I'm not here to defend Trump but to just to call it the way it is. If it does turn out to be terrorism, why is this a criticism of him? Why isn't just a nod to him having a good gut -- a good instinct, and is that an asset in a leader?

TODD WHITMAN: No -- well, it is and it isn't. I mean, yes, he may be absolutely right. I think a lot of people thought that. The A-320 is a workhorse and it is a very solid airplane. It's hard to imagine anything, you know, blowing up spontaneously in it without some device that encourages that. It's just not going to break apart. So, it's a logical conclusion to which to come.

But, all I'm saying is that you've got to be a little bit careful about how fast you go out with absolute conclusions, only because the firsthand information you get initially is going to contain inaccuracies. And if you're going to base policy and what you're saying you need to have all the facts, that's all.

CUOMO: Hillary Clinton heard the same tweet that I just read to you, had the same reaction, put it this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know how hard this job is and I know that we need steadiness, as well as strength and smarts in it. And I have concluded he is not qualified to be President of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, the headline coming out of the interview, or one of them, is oh, Clinton says Donald Trump is not qualified. But, he's going to reverse that argument and I want your take on it. He's going to say look at the state of the world today. Everything seems to be worse since the Obama administration started

enacting a more cooperative foreign policy. Hillary Clinton was there for that. She holds blame for that and that's why Trump should be president. Your take?

TODD WHITMAN: Well, I don't think that means that Trump should be president because one of the problems you have is you do need a steadiness at the helm and he refuses to give us that. He keeps saying we want to keep everybody guessing where we are, even our friends, our allies.

{07:45:00] I mean, he's already said that he and Cameron probably won't get on all that well together because Cameron said heaven forbid, something not too nice about one of Donald's statements. So, you know, it's a mixed bag here. I don't think Hillary has all the answers but, don't forget, it is the president that calls the shots and you, as a member of the Cabinet, have to carry out.

At the end of the day you have to carry out what the president tells you to do. I'm not defending this administration in the way it's handled things, but we do need our allies. We do need our traditional allies. We don't -- I agree that you want to talk to people who are on the other side.

You need to have some form, whether it's back channel or not. But you don't want to destabilize the world so much by saying we're not going to tell you where we are because all that does is give those who are opposed to us an open opportunity to say we've got to act first because if we don't they're going to be after us.

And, you know, the thing I think that probably to me said as much as anything about Donald Trump's campaign is when he tweeted the other day saying that if he didn't win this whole thing would have been a waste of time and a waste of money.

And you want to say really? We're wasting your time having you come to -- you want to be President of the United States of America, leader of the free world. It's not some game that you're playing. We didn't ask you to do this, you stepped up.

And you're spending time and you're spending money, and you're spending our time and focus. And you say it could all be a waste of time if you don't get it? That's really dismissing the office as if you don't really care about the office, you just care about this process and winning.

CUOMO: Governor, you're a Cabinet member but also, obviously, governor (sic) of New Jersey. Give me a little insight into what's going on in New Jersey right now with Gov. Chris Christie and Donald Trump. What do you make of this relationship? Everybody's joking about them being at a fundraiser together. We'll play some of the footage of it.

They were there yesterday and Donald Trump was talking about trade, talking about Nabisco, and he said I'm not eating anymore Oreos. And he joked about it and looked at Chris Christie and said no more Oreos for either of us. People are dealing with it as an awkward moment, but who cares about that. What do you make of the alliance between Christie and Trump?

TODD WHITMAN: Well, I think, obviously, Donald Trump trusts Chris Christie. Chris Christie was the first one -- major person to come out and to support Donald Trump and he's been very loyal. He has stayed with him, he has defended him, and Donald Trump appreciates that as much as anyone. And so he is rewarding him.

He was helping him defray his campaign debt that Chris Christie had from his presidential run, which is normal. It happens all the time. And by appointing him the head of his transition -- I think it's a little premature to assume you're going to have that, but anyway, that's planning ahead. You could say that's a good move. He is guaranteed that Chris could have a position in this administration, depending on what he wants. So, it's a symbiotic relationship, in a way.

CUOMO: Christine Todd Whitman, former governor of New Jersey, former Cabinet member, making reasonable statements in an election where very little seems to make sense sometimes. Thank you for helping us with some perspective this morning.

TODD WHITMAN: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: All right -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: That approach will never work.

CUOMO: (Laughing)

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, in Richmond, Virginia nearly 40 percent of the children there live in extreme poverty, if you can believe it. This week's CNN hero has become an unlikely father figure, teaching kids in Richmond's public housing about mountain bike racing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRAIG DODSON, PROFESSIONAL CYCLIST: What a lot of people can't see is that our kids have the equivalent of 10 suitcases each of baggage that they are carrying on that bike. These kids can tell me to piss off at any time. Like, what am I going to do? There's connections being made. This is a war to me. It's me against the circumstances that these kids live in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: To see how Craig is fighting that war you can go to cnnheroes.com to watch his full story. And while you're there you can nominate someone you think should be a 2016 CNN hero -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, the early U.S. theory is that a bomb brought down flight 804. A big concern now is well, how did it get there? Was it one of the airport employees? You have thousands of people behind the scenes in a major airport. It only takes one with malicious intent. We have former CIA director James Woolsey. He's going to weigh in on that next.

[07:49:32]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:53:20] CAMEROTA: Search teams have found debris connected to EgyptAir flight 804 and they are trying to determine if the plane was brought down by terrorism or something mechanical. More than 35 hours after this plane vanished, still no claim of responsibility from anyone.

Joining us now to talk about it is a former CIA director James Woolsey. Mr. Woolsey, thanks so much for being here.

JAMES WOOLSEY, FORMER DIRECTOR, CIA: Good to be with you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Was this plane brought down by terrorism?

WOOLSEY: I think the odds are pretty strong in that direction but nothing is certain yet. And the greatest confusion, I think, is the fact that nobody has taken responsibility. That's a little surprising.

CAMEROTA: And that is unusual, so what do you make of that?

WOOLSEY: I don't know. Maybe they're not as organized in the terrorist world as we think they are, or they have something else coming and they -- I don't know. It's really hard to say. But I think it's still a very high probability that it is terrorists and a pretty high probability that it is an inside job in the sense that something got put in on the ground and it could have been soft drinks, ice. It doesn't have to be big if it's put in the right place.

So, the search for trying to find out what airline employees, maintenance workers, and so forth might be from the Mideast, which is what French are going through. It may be something that we're going to have to do something like that here in this country.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about that because we just had Rafi Ron on. He was the head of security for Tel Aviv's airport. He said exactly the same thing that you did, which is he believes that if this was terrorism it was an inside job, meaning not a passenger, an airport worker.

[07:55:00] And, we have heard that Charles de Gaulle Airport, when they went through this rigorous screening after the terror attacks in Brussels and Paris, they found 85 people who had special access, who had some evidence of having become radicalized somehow and they had to pull their access. Help us understand what that would be like in the U.S. Do you think that we are vulnerable here, as well?

WOOLSEY: I think yes, we are. I think the proportion of people who have been radicalized and so forth in this country is probably considerably smaller than it is in France. They're a lot closer to Syria and Lebanon, where everything is coming apart, than we are. But, the company that does the prime contracting for maintenance and

janitorial services, and the like, for airports in the U.S. -- one of the companies -- has been firing American companies that do this kind of work and putting in more and more companies that use immigrant labor in the sense of people who have been fleeing the events and the wars of the Middle East.

And there's a reasonably good chance that some of them have affiliations to terrorist groups, hopefully not many. But, we've got to get into this in detail and look at it because we don't have anything else that we can do that might be able to forestall something.

CAMEROTA: Right. I mean, that sounds like you think that's a real vulnerability. Why aren't we looking at that more closely?

WOOLSEY: Well, the whole focus seems to have been from avoiding terrorist attacks on the TSA, and let's add more TSA people standing around as we walk through the magnetic detectors. That strikes me as perhaps not front and center of the things one needs to do.

The hard thing about many aspects of law enforcement and intelligence is that you simply have to get into people's backgrounds and understand why they might be the radical ones. And the process for doing that people don't like. Sometimes it's done wrong and it would affect people's privacy. This is a tough, tough thing to do right.

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump came out just a short time after the plane dropped off of radar and said, basically, that it was terrorism. Does that worry you that someone so high-profile would make a proclamation before there's solid information?

WOOLSEY: Well, I think he was reasonably careful about the way he said it, as I recall. He said it looks like terrorism and that is probably fine. I think one does want to be careful, just as you suggested, in coming to a conclusion early, particularly as a major public official. He's not a public official yet but he's working to be.

And so I think one needs to be cautious, certainly as a president, in coming to a conclusion. But I think he was within the bounds of what's quite reasonable by just saying it looks like terrorism.

CAMEROTA: Yes, and as you know, Mr. Woolsey, when somebody is elected, before they're inaugurated they do begin getting the CIA security briefings. Do you have any concern that if that were to be Donald Trump, given his penchant for Twitter and making bold proclamations, that that information might get out?

WOOLSEY: I think he would listen carefully to being briefed on why it's important not to do anything that could disclose intelligence sources or methods. I don't have any reason to believe that he would not be careful about that. But you're right, it's very important that he is careful about that and it's important that Hillary Clinton is careful about it, too.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. James Woolsey, thanks so much for being here on NEW DAY this morning.

WOOLSEY: Thank you. Good to be with you.

CAMEROTA: We're following a lot of breaking news. The first debris found from EgyptAir flight 804, so let's get to it.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CUOMO: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. We have breaking developments in the EgyptAir flight 804 disaster. The Egyptian military confirming they have found wreckage and passengers' belongings 180 miles off the coast of Egypt.

CAMEROTA: Officials are hoping this debris can answer the big question of what sent that plane falling from the sky. No claim of responsibility so far, but U.S. officials are operating under the theory that a bomb was used.

We have this story covered the way only CNN can, so let's begin with Becky Anderson. She's live at Cairo International Airport -- Becky.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More detail we are learning this hour about exactly what has been found in that search in what was a rescue operation now, clearly moving into what will be a search and recovery phase.