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New Day

EgyptAir Plane Crashes into Mediterranean Sea; Possible Terrorist Causes of Plane Crash Examined; Interview with Vicente Fox. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 20, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- are learning this hour about exactly what has been found in that search in what was a rescue operation now clearly moving into what will be a search and recovery phase.

A body part and an aircraft seat is what the Greek Defense Ministry's spokesman has told CNN that they have been told by Egyptian authorities. Those Egyptian authorities leading the search and rescue operation in coordination with the Greeks, with the Brits, with the French, Italians. This is what we know at this point.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: A sign Egyptair flight 804 has been found. An Egyptian military spokesman says passenger belongings and part of the aircraft have been located north of the coastal city of Alexandria as the French foreign minister insists the Paris airport from which the Airbus 320 departed was completely secure.

JEAN-MARC AYRAULT, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER (via translator): The government strengthened all the measures following the January attacks. Everything was being done to reinforce everywhere.

ANDERSON: U.S. government officials serving as analysts in the investigation are operating under the theory that a bomb brought down the missing jet. But they have yet to find any indications of an explosion.

JOHN KIRBY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: I'm not aware of any sensors that the U.S. military has or deploys that picked anything up on this.

ANDERSON: The French foreign minister also cautioning that terrorism is currently a suspicion not based on any concrete evidence.

AYRAULT (via translator): We need to give the maximum amount of information in order to give the truth. We owe this to the families.

ANDERSON: The plane last contacting Greek traffic controllers at 1:48 a.m., but not responding to repeated calls just 40 minutes later, and after another two minutes, completely dropping off the radar. Egypt aviation, pointing to this strange communication pattern, says it seems more likely to have been a terrorist act.

SHERIF FATHI, EGYPT'S AVIATION MINISTER: Having a terror attack is higher than the possibility of having a technical.

ANDERSON: And Greek officials say the plane swerved then plunged before apparently falling into the Mediterranean. But U.S. officials say the swerving may just be the pieces of the plane in the sky, picked up by the radar, supporting the theory there was some kind of explosion 37,000 feet in the air.

AHMED ADEL, EGYPTAIR VICE PRESIDENT: The aircraft was done on time. There was no snags or anything that was reported.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: So it does seem we are beginning to learn more detail on what happened, the fact that this plane that disappeared from the radar in the middle of the night on route from Charles de Daulle Airport to Cairo has come out of the sky and has hit the Mediterranean. What we don't, of course, still know, is why that happened. Condolences and messages of regret coming in to the friends and family, many of whom gathered here at what was a makeshift crisis center set up by Egyptair over the last 35 hours or so.

Also the president of Egypt offering his condolences to those friends and families of the 66 people on board. The French ambassador was meeting up with some 14 French people who had arrived. Let's remember that the majority of those on the flight where either Egyptian or French nationals. But it does seem that whatever glimmer of hope the friends and families, relatives of those who were aboard this flight had, now unfortunately being extinguished. Alisyn

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That is right, Becky. Thank you for all of that reporting.

Well, several countries are helping in the search effort for more debris and victims, including Greece. That's where we find CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson with more. Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Hi, Alisyn. The very latest from the ministry of defense here in Greece, they have offered their military air base on this island, Crete here, to any and all allies that want to assist in this recovery effort and debris search out in the Mediterranean. This is a large military air base they have here. They're making it available. They're right now running two C-130 military cargo transport aircraft that over flying the area out there in the Mediterranean, about 100 miles or so away from this island. They're over flying, looking for the debris.

You have the British contributing a naval vessel based in Cypress, not too far from here as well. The United States has an Orion P-3, surveillance aircraft up in the skies helping in that search. The Greeks also have a surveillance aircraft in the skies. The Greeks as well have two helicopters on standby. The next large island along from this one, they're on standby waiting to get involved in the recovery effort. And Italy and Cypress too contributing to this military search effort underway.

[08:05:08] The seas here, you probably can't quite hear them, but I can hear them slapping up against the shore. The waves are getting bigger, the winds picking up, the clouds are coming in. There is a small storm front coming. It was very calm this morning. The conditions for the search effort are going to worsen here through the afternoon. Not terrible, but not as good as they were this morning, Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Nic, thank you very much. Appreciate that.

We're talking the debris and the search for it, and that includes not just the plane but also the remains of passengers as well. So important to the families but also key in determining whether a bomb brought down this plane or not.

Also in question, airport security, questions about who had access, and not just in France, but also these other stops in the Middle East and Africa. So let's get into that part of the story with CNN's Max Foster. He's live at Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris. What do we know?

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Chris, this plane had gone to other places before it arrived here at Charles de Gaulle, but there was a security check on the plane here before any passengers got on. All those passengers that were on the plane got off and none of them got back on. So they're assuming if there was any sort of device, then it could have been put on here.

And the other theory around that as well is the number of devices on board an aircraft, the more likely it is to be discovered. So there is no terror investigation yet. You can't fully launch one of those until the victims have been found and there is confirmation from the Egyptians that this was a terror attack.

Having said that, with no official announcements, our sources are telling us they're going through what they call a verification procedure, which is clearly a check of the information that they have. We know from Washington that the French intelligence agencies are liaising with American intelligence agencies and Egyptian intelligence agencies, so they're cross-checking all of the facts here, and particularly try and identify who had access to the aircraft while it spent an hour and a half on the tarmac here.

And consider this, Chris -- 86,000 workers here at this airport have security clearance to go airside here. But the same consideration, though, really needs to be given to the fact this is a highly, highly secure airport one of the most secure in the world when you consider after a spate of European attacks the levels of security have been ramped up and up here. I just want to finish with one final word, and that's on the fact that 85 people, since January last year, had their clearance taken away because there was concerns about them being radicalized, Chris.

CAMEROTA: Max, I'll take it. You've given us a lot of material to try to analyze. Thank you for that reporting.

We want to bring in our panel, Miles O'Brien, CNN's aviation analyst and science correspondent for PBS News Hour, David Soucie, CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector, Paul Cruickshank, CNN terrorism analyst and editor in chief of "CTC Sentinel," and CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest. Thanks for being here.

I want to start with something that the former CIA director, James Woolsey, just said on the air that was eye-opening. He said that what's happening in the U.S., he believes there is a vulnerab&1ity in the security of U.S. airports because there are big contractors that provide janitorial and other support services that have begun firing American workers, or getting rid of them somehow, and hiring subcontractors who hire foreign workers from the Mideast. He believes they're not being vetted enough, and this a vulnerability. David Soucie, do you know anything about this?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Within the last six months, I went back and renewed my airport certification for security. Within that, that was identified as the number one security vulnerability that we have in the United States is that, as you refer to it as the backdoor. And that backdoor are those employees.

There is two levels of screening. There's the screening that happens before you're hired. The background checks, those are those kinds of level screening. But today, as you go into any airport in the United States, the money hasn't been allocated from Congress nor anyone else to come up with the money necessary to do that screening. It is very expensive. Doesn't it always come down to money when it comes to safety.

CUOMO: We keep hearing about the TSA travails just coming through the airports yesterday, the lines were heavy, and I was asking questions to the workers there, you know, what do you think it is. And it was all about resources, resources. Not machines, but human resources.

But this isn't about it being new, Miles. This is about the evolution of the problem and whether or not it has been dealt with. I felt like we've dealt with this in iterations over the years with these tragedies.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: It is amazing how we forget, isn't it. After 9/11, the TSA was created out of this very concern that we were subcontracting our safety to people we didn't know. We didn't have a TSA before 9/11. The idea was to professionalize and to get people in there of a higher caliber doing their job better.

[08:10:00] And now we're just headed right back down the direction of bottom line. This is all about money. Are we really going to trade our safety for a few bucks? That's what we're doing.

CAMEROTA: Paul, we've heard two of our guests, James Woolsey, as well as the head of security for Tel Aviv's airport say that they believe that it will turn out that this is connected to terrorism, and that in fact, it was an inside job, meaning not a passenger, but one of these airport workers who we've been talking about. What have you learned, Paul?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: We just don't know that yet. There is no solid evidence yet pointing to terrorism. They haven't privileged terrorism as the cause of this. It is possible that it is something else mechanical, catastrophic failure, or some other cause for this terrible tragedy.

But you're right. There has been a concern about the insider threats, a concern that we've seen in Europe, Max Foster talking about those 85 employees at Charles de Gaulle airport that their security credentials for secure pass at the airport revoked since the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks.

But an even bigger concern in the developing world, and it is notable that this plane was in Tunis, Cairo, and also Eritrea on its way to Paris. There has been grave concerns that parts of the developing world have lagged behind in terms of airport security, having the latest generations of machines, having the best training, and having rigorous security protocols in place to protect against the insider threat. And we've seen a couple of attacks in Africa in the Middle East in recent months, where the insider threat has led to bombs getting on planes. Notably in October last year, over the Sinai Peninsula, the ISIS affiliates in that area managed to get a bomb on o a Russian metro-jet, blew it out of the sky.

And then much more recently in February of this year, the Al Qaeda affiliate, Al Shabaab, managed to get a sophisticated laptop device onto a plane. They recruited two airport worker for that attack and they put it on an x-ray belt in the airport in Mogadishu, got it through that, perhaps because they worked in the airport, they weren't given as much scrutiny, got it on the plane. Fortunately it did not take out the aircraft. It blew a big hole in it. The aircraft managed to land just a few minutes later.

But Eritrea not too far away from Somalia where there was another attempt to blow a plane up with a sophisticated laptop bomb just a few wee later. Those are notable data points.

CUOMO: Whenever it comes to causation, every chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The more places this plane was, the more potential vulnerabilities. Richard Quest, where would you tell people who are monitoring this to place their attention and focus?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: At the moment, we don't know where or what caused this. So to some extent, you're still scrambling around in the dark. But Chris, because of the seriousness of the security question, and as your guests have already made absolutely clear, this deep worry about the weakest link in the airports, clearly, both in Paris, in Tunis, and in Eritrea, that's where the focus has to be.

We can't really know much more on the mechanical side, frankly, until we find information from the black boxes. We can go in circles on that. I've no doubt at all that the focus of attention at the moment until we get evidence that tells us it is not security related, when you have the former CIA director and you have the head of security and you have people like Paul Cruickshank and others, all of whom guiding us in one direction or another, you are left with very little alternative to say that security and the terrorist option has to be the number one option on the table.

CAMEROTA: Gentlemen, thank you for your expertise. Thanks so much for being with us as we try to work our way through all of the various theories.

CUOMO: Obviously these concepts of terrorism, they are frightening when they happen abroad and they always resonate back here at home. It has been a big issue in the election, especially for Donald Trump. And one of this most often repeated campaign promises is to deal with threats to the country with big moves, one of them is to build that wall along the Mexican border. Angered many people, including the man on your screen, former Mexican president, Vicente Fox. Has he had a change of heart about Donald Trump. He joins us next on NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:17:17] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are going to build a wall. If they ever get up, they'll say, oh, man, how do I get down from this wall? And we're going to make it beautiful, and we're going to make it big and we're going to make it powerful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Donald Trump, still promising he will build a wall on the border with Mexico and make Mexico pay for it. The proposal, met with different layers of pushback. Most notably, from Mexico, including former president, Vicente Fox, who has said, in no uncertain terms Mexico is not going to pay for the wall.

Former President Vicente Fox joining us on NEW DAY this morning.

Mr. President, good to have you.

VICENTE FOX, FORMER MEXICAN PRESIDENT: Pleasure. And thank you for the invitation.

CUOMO: Now, is it your --

(CROSSTALK)

FOX: I'm not paying for that wall, huh?

CUOMO: Well, you had a little smile on your face when you were watching this clip, but you got very angry, very quickly. Why?

FOX: No, I guess the guy that has a very short, short fuse, it's him. Just look at his reaction yesterday about this horrible plane crash or bomb or whatever it was.

First message should be of solidarity, of compassion to the people, the families of the people that was in that plane. That's where you start, always. You don't go to war with everybody. You don't go and hate everybody.

You don't see everybody as an enemy. We're not enemies of this nation. The whole world is working to working together to build our common home for all of us. This is what compassion and leaders work about.

CUOMO: When people are angry and frustrated, and anxious, and all of that applies in the United States right now, they can often tire of mild responses.

FOX: Yes.

CUOMO: And one of the things that has resonated for Trump is strength. He cuts through it. This is terror. I said it before anybody else and I was right. It makes us look weak. We have to be strong. That's why we have to deal with is a certain way, and that's why we have to deal with Mexico a certain way.

And so far, it is working for him. Do you understand why?

FOX: I understand why, because there is fear in this nation, and there is fear that is real. It happened in September 11th. But that's not the world. The world is much more than that. Not everybody is enemy of this nation.

So, what he is creating a phantom, and now he says, I'm going to protect you from that phantom. There is problems in the world. There is violence in some parts of the world. There is limited and a small violence in Mexico. You can walk on the streets at any time of the day.

[08:20:01] So, it is not everybody an enemy. This guy seems to be looking for enemies under the stones and everywhere, looking for, building this phantom and telling U.S. citizen -- watch out, I need to build walls. I need to protect you.

Who he is to protect this great nation? I'm part of this nation. Half of this person has American love and I love this nation. We love it around the world.

We want to build together the common home that we share in this world, 8 billion people.

CUOMO: What bothered you so much, you've heard plenty of isolationist talk when it comes to Mexico. There's been waves of concern about how to deal with illegal immigration for generations here. Why did you get so angry at Trump's recommendation?

FOX: Because I was offended, first, as a Mexican. As Mexicans, we're offended. The Bush family was offended. The pope was offended. And the evangelists have been offended.

So, you must love thy neighbor. We're neighbors. We are working together to be successful, to be the number one region of the world, North America.

CUOMO: He says sounds good, but not true. Mexico sends us their worst. They push criminals and drug dealers and drugs across the border. They fill up the workforce here.

FOX: Short answer, short answer. Number one, he claims and he tells the American workers that they're losing their jobs to Mexico. They're losing their jobs because he's importing, ties, underwear shirts that he wears and that he puts his brand name on it. So, he is just making money. He is cheating American people.

So I say wake up. Wake up. Please, American citizens. I am in a way an American citizen. I love this nation.

And we in Latin America, we learn the hard way to deal with dictators, to deal with messianic leaders with populism and demagoguery. So, we identify the Hugo Chavez, we identify Evo Morales, we identify the Kirchners in Argentina. So, we know.

This is why a word of caution. Wake up, America. Please analyze. I'm not saying what you should do. But reflect what you're being told.

CUOMO: Your tone seemed to change a little bit after your initial outrage at what he said. I'm wondering what that meant to you. You seemed to invite him. Come down, let me show you Mexico.

He interpreted it, he interpreted, his campaign interpreted it as, you see FOX, he is coming around. He knows I'm the man. He should treat me with respect.

Is that what that was?

FOX: It was the reaction to being offended. Offended should take you to forgiveness, and asking for forgiveness.

But in that case, I went to say my truth. Now he invited me for lunch. He says, he sent me a message. Come, I invite you for lunch in New York.

Yes, I would come, if first you apologize to Mexico, to Mexicans, to Mexican people. And number two, you apologize to U.S. workers, because you're not telling them the truth.

CUOMO: Sounds like you don't want to have lunch with Donald Trump --

FOX: No.

CUOMO: -- President Fox.

FOX: I can have San Cristobal (ph) in my place. Yes, he controls media here, you know. You know FOX News is 24 hours, giving him the push.

In Mexico, we used to say Televista, the number one stations, makes president. In this case, FOX News is trying to make a president.

That's not the way to go. We should be speaking about the challenges we have. We should have a democracy very happy campaigns. There should be music. There should be reasonable messages.

Democracy is a feast, and here, it seems to be war. A call for war. Democracy is not that. Freedom is not that.

The leadership of this nation is at risk in front of the whole world. I work with all the former presidents, former prime ministers, and we're all astonished. We say it is a nightmare. This cannot be the voice of that great nation, the nation that has led the world, the nation that works intensely for peace and now he is blaming the government, past government, former government that they did not work for peace enough.

Yes, we have problems. We have ISIS, and this, but we must unite together to get rid of them. This is not the way to go.

CUOMO: So far, the primary in that party, the GOP, though, is telling a different story.

But, Former President Vicente Fox, thank you for joining us on --

FOX: I have an invitation to go to the GOP convention in Cleveland.

CUOMO: You're going?

FOX: (INAUDIBLE) not coming.

[08:25:03] The same too to Philadelphia one. Thank you.

CUOMO: Look forward to seeing you at both.

FOX: Muchos gracios.

CUOMO: Alisyn? De nada.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Debris from EgyptAir 804 has been found in the Mediterranean. How can it help locate the fuselage? We have more on the underwater search, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: We have been following breaking news this morning in the EgyptAir Flight 804 disaster.

The Egyptian military has found debris, including human remains, at an airplane seat. The European Space Agency now reporting a possible oil slick in the area where the plane is believed to have disappeared. French investigators are helping to determine whether a bomb brought down the plane and search crews are still looking for the data recorders and the fuselage deep under water.

Here to take us through all of the search and what's possible is Tim Taylor. He's a sea operations and submersibles specialist and CEO of Tiburon Subsea.

Tim, thanks so much for being here.

TIM TAYLOR, CEO, TIBURON SUBSEA: You're welcome.

CAMEROTA: Let's look at the map. This is the area right here, 180 miles north of Alexandria, Egypt, and this is where they believe the plane went down. Can you tell us what the conditions will be like for searching in this area of the Mediterranean?