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Violent Protests Erupt Outside Trump Rally; Sanders Wants Recanvas of Kentucky Results; Cosby to Stand Trial in Sexual Assault Case; Could Wasserman Schultz be Ousted as DNC Chair? Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 25, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anti-Trump protestors have taken to the streets.

[05:58:05] HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He actually said he was hoping to crash.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm a businessman. That what I'm supposed to do.

CLINTON: We're not going to let him bankrupt America.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we get the nomination, Donald Trump is toast.

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS' RIGHTS ATTORNEY: The court found that there was sufficient evidence to require Mr. Cosby to stand trial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was no crime committed here. This case should end immediately.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to seek the truth. We're here to serve justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has been confirmed that he is dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A major change in Taliban leadership.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mansour's replacement could be even more deadly.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, May 25, 6 a.m. in the east, and Ana Cabrera is here with us.

Good morning to you.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's like A-squared here, A-C squared.

CAMEROTA: It may be confusing, but you'll handle it.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Just like every day.

CAMEROTA: Exactly.

We do have some breaking news to get to. Overnight, a chaotic scene outside a Donald Trump rally in New Mexico. Anti-Trump protestors turning violent, clashing with police, even breaking through police barriers to disrupt Trump's speech. Several officers were hurt in this melee.

CUOMO: Nevertheless, the presumptive GOP nominee easily won another state, the Washington state primary just last night. Trump is now only eight delegates away from officially clinching the nomination. Remember that magic number, 1,237?

On the Democratic side, the turmoil in the party taking another turn. Now the party's chair is in the crosshairs. The question remains what will bring Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders together?

We have the race covered the way only CNN can. Let's begin with Jason Carroll joining us with more on these protests last night -- Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chris, and good morning to you.

You know, before much of the unrest, Trump said during his speech last night he was doing great with Hispanics, going on to say that he was going to win them over. The reality is, he's not doing well with Hispanics, many of them upset about those comments he made, calling illegal immigrants rapists and drug dealers, and they took their anger to the streets.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): Overnight, police in riot gear blasting pepper spray...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) push her (EXPLETIVE DELETED) to the ground!

CARROLL: ... and using smoke grenades to disperse ant-Donald Trump protestors outside his rally in Albuquerque, New Mexico...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Start moving!

CARROLL: ... hours after the presumptive GOP nominee's speech.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back!

CARROLL: Dozens of protestors stomping on police cars and throwing rocks and bottles at police, injuring several officers.

Earlier during Trump's speech at the city's convention center, protestors breaking through the metal barriers surrounding the venue, some making their way inside, only to be dragged out by security. The personal attacks on Hillary Clinton began even before Trump took

the stage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know who to choose. Trump or Hillary. Even Bill Clinton chose other women. So you should, too!

CARROLL: Once onstage, Trump going personal opting to make fun of Clinton's voice.

TRUMP: I will never say this, but she screams. It drives me crazy.

CARROLL: And using some of his harshest language yet against Clinton.

TRUMP: I see this low life. She puts on an air.

CARROLL: Trump angry Clinton is painting him as a greedy billionaire. This based on comments he made back in 2006, when he said he hoped to profit when the housing market collapsed.

TRUMP: They've got some clip of me from many years ago where I'm saying, "Yes, if did goes down I'm going to buy. I'm a businessman. That's what I'm supposed to do."

CARROLL: Clinton staying above the fray while campaigning in California.

TRUMP: We have a bully pulpit in the White House, but that doesn't mean we want a bully in the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: Trump also criticized New Mexico's Republican governor, Susana Martinez, who is also Hispanic. Did that during his rally. Martinez has not endorsed Trump and said she was too busy to attend his rally. Trump said she needed to do a better job at improving conditions in her state. Trump's next stop is going to be Anaheim, California where a number of people are already preparing for more protests -- Chris, Alisyn.

CUOMO: Jason Carroll, insightful reporting.

Now time to discuss. Let's bring in CNN political analyst and host of "The David Gregory Show" podcast, David Gregory; senior politics editor for "The Daily Beast" Jackie Kucinich; and CNN political commentator AND contributor for "The Daily Caller," Matt Lewis.

Matt Lewis strategically showing up on set this morning.

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Correct.

CUOMO: That means you get more attention. So when you see what's going on last night, what is your read on the significance to the candidacy?

LEWIS: Well, I mean, there's so much going on. You talk about him attacking Susana Martinez. I thought that there was a chance, an outside chance that he might pick her as his running mate. I mean, this is a female Latina, you know, governor of New Mexico, Mexican- American.

If Donald Trump wants to sort of mend fences with the Hispanic community, with women, maybe even give himself some cover so he can attack Hillary, she might have been a good selection. And here he is literally going into a state, attacking a sitting Republican governor. I think it's a heavy RPA, the Republican...

CAMEROTA: Because she didn't want to go to the rally. She sat out the rally. And so she basically telegraphed that she didn't want to be connected.

LEWIS: Think of the message this sends.

CUOMO: "I'm only counterpunching. I'm only counterpunching."

LEWIS: But think of sort of the message that this sends. I mean, if you are Senator Rob Portman in Ohio or Senator Pat Toomey in Pennsylvania, you better get in line. Because if Donald Trump comes to your town in October and attacks you publicly, or even just disses you like that, that could basically sway an election.

CAMEROTA: What does that do, Jackie? I mean, if he's in a fight -- a fight with Susana Martinez, what does that do?

JACKIE KUCINICH, SENIOR POLITICS EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": I don't know. It might -- it might backfire, because in a lot of these states, actually, some of these politicians are beloved, and -- and when you're someone like a Rob Portman, if Donald Trump praise you you're going to get attacked from the left. And you're getting fund- raising ads sent out against you.

So I don't -- I don't know what the right thing to do is here, but certainly, striking fear in the heart of Republicans who don't show up and stand behind you at your rally, I just don't know that that's going to work.

CUOMO: What's worse, David: having the protestors knocking down the barriers, or having the man who introduced Trump say, even Hillary's husband chose other women.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think that was just a totally inappropriate comment.

CUOMO: He did not correct it once he got up there as far as I understand.

GREGORY: Yes, I mean, that's -- look, Donald Trump has a decision to make. I mean, does he want to take this kind of road and try to become personally ugly with Hillary Clinton and have his supporters do the same and kind of carry on that campaign?

[06:05:14] And think that, with that, he's going to ease the anxieties that voters feel about his temperament, his qualifications, how risky he is as a presidential choice, or his huge deficit in what he knows and is he capable of managing America's foreign policy?

He either wants to take that rooted personal attack or he wants to address these other issues. I think the strategic challenge for him is to recognize that, even within the Republican Party, he is still not a majority candidate. So he may have 40, maybe even approaching 50 percent of the Republican electorate. If he wants to get beyond that, he's got to deal with other issues. He's got to be more strategic and targeted in his messaging in swing states rather than, as you talked about, going in and trashing a Republican governor in probably a more Democratic state, but it has been a swing state in the past, New Mexico.

So he's not showing that he's really making much of a pivot to the general election. That said, I don't think that these protests help the Democrats' cause. I think the more of a law-and-order problem, there appears to be at these Trump rallies. I think that only plays to his strength.

CAMEROTA: So Matt, I want to ask you about those protest, very quickly. These are anti-Trump protestors. Is there anything Donald Trump can do to quell some of the anger?

LEWIS: Well, I mean, as David was suggesting, Donald Trump may not want to strategically quell them. He may benefit from stoking it, even.

But I do think whether it's Bernie Sanders and Nevada or Donald Trump last night in New Mexico, I think it's incumbent upon leaders to talk about it. As Bernie Sanders suggests, politics is messy, condone or encourage any sort of violence or unrest.

But, you know, this is -- in some ways this is like a throwback to the Nixon era almost, and Donald Trump could be our Richard Nixon.

CUOMO: Some of those protests, really, no matter where they crop up, there is an element of artifice there. There are these groups that go to each of these sites. We even saw them when we were in Ferguson and Baltimore.

CAMEROTA: Like professional agitators, you mean?

CUOMO: I don't know if that's the right term, because I don't know what professional means in this context. But they do wind up showing up. And people are so on edge that it's easy to take them over the edge.

CAMEROTA: Yes, yes.

CUOMO: So there's a little element, but there's no point -- there's no question what Trump is seeing here is a little bit earned, Jackie, right? If that is a big Latino population, and they are referring to what he did before.

But to David's point, I don't think it hurts him. I think -- I think it helps him. The bigger question for him is in terms of what tactics he's going to take against Hillary is going to show he is an answer to the problems versus just pointing out the problems. How's the balance there so far?

KUCINICH: Well, I don't know that there is a balance. Donald Trump hasn't really focused. As we said earlier, he's not really focused on a general election target yet. He still seems to be the Donald Trump that we saw all these months through the primaries.

And to your point about the protests, when there is -- are these sort of irrational, chaotic-looking scenes, sure, that's not attracting, you know, people who are on the fence. That said, when you use incendiary rhetoric, you're going to get incendiary reactions. Because some of the things he's said have been very extremely offensive to various groups of people, and they're going to speak out.

CAMEROTA: David, let's talk about some of the things that have been a part of the conversation in the past few days. Donald Trump invoked the -- he calls it, mystery, surrounding Vince Foster, who was deputy counsel at the White House during Bill Clinton's time, about the death of Vince Foster.

That has been investigated time and again by police, by Ken Starr, by CNN. It was a suicide, but Donald Trump acts as though it's an open question.

So what now? What -- should the media go back and sort of remind voters about this and about all the details, try to put it to rest, or is this just -- there are conspiracy theorists out there, and Donald Trump has always sort of been sympathetic to those?

GREGORY: Look, the people who are open to the re-litigation of Vince Foster's death are not going to vote for Hillary Clinton anyway. So Donald Trump is speaking to conspiracy-minded people who are not based in reality on some of these stories anyhow, and maybe they're part of his coalition.

Again, if you're Donald Trump at this point, you want to deal with a couple of things. You have a message that's about the future of the country. Are you going to emphasize that?

There's no question, she's hitting him on his past, he's going to hit her on her part and the kind of messiness of the Clintons within politics to try to reach younger voters, more persuadable voters, but he still has a series of issues to deal with that are personal characteristics. Whether people trust him, whether he's seen as too risky, whether he is everything he says he is as a businessman, whether he can deal with people's anxiety about him as running our foreign policy and keeping America secure.

And Hillary Clinton -- look, he's unconventional, and he's been unconventionally successful so far. But this is a big strategic operation to run a national campaign. What you're seeing from Hillary Clinton, she's starting to jab him in the eye on economics, on his business background. He's got Elizabeth Warren now, there are other surrogates who are working in his swing states to drive that message home. That's where we want to keep our focus, to see what resonance that message has, versus his message using Instagram and a broader media. CUOMO: It really becomes a question of temperament for him, also.

How does he deal with attacks? I know in the primaries it worked well. The counterpuncher, "You came at me, so I came at you." To a lot of people in the general election, that could read as poor temperament. But if you're going to take every provocation so seriously, what will happen when you're president?

CAMEROTA: Of all the things that David Gregory just raised, about the questions about character, the questions about whether or not you're equipped to deal with our problems, the same could be said about Hillary Clinton. I mean, that's what voters are trying to figure out about her, whether or not she's...

CUOMO: Her defense, and an unfortunate defense is vetting. When we're talking about Vince Foster, why do you have so much confidence saying, "I don't think it's there"? Because it's been looked at five ways.

CAMEROTA: Right.

CUOMO: Whether it's all the gates, whatever you want to look at or Bill Clinton's past, this has been played out not just by us but by special prosecutors, and commissions and committees.

Trump's risk is a lot of the stink on him that maybe we've heard about being here in New York has never been fully vetted, does not have a special prosecutor behind it, does not have a congressional committee behind it. Does he really want to open up those chapters of his own life? We'll see.

CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you. Stick around. We have more questions for you, but let's get over to Ana.

CABRERA: Talk about the Democrats. Hillary Clinton campaigning hard in California, hoping to avoid a primary defeat there in two weeks which would be embarrassing after she just squeaked out a win in Kentucky last week. And now Bernie Sanders is calling for a recanvassing of the primary results there.

All this as some in the Democratic Party are saying their chairwoman is too toxic and may have to go. CNN senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns joins us like in D.C. with more on this -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Ana.

The head of the Democratic Party again coming into focus after Bernie Sanders went after her over the weekend in the middle of a pitched campaign battle for California, the biggest prize of the primary season.

There's no indication any Democratic senators have launched a formal effort to get rid of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, but the Sanders campaign can claim credit this morning for starting a conversation about it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOHNS (voice-over): On Capitol Hill, Democratic senators discussing removing Debbie Wasserman Schultz as the head of the party. One source saying many feel it would be a good idea. The source telling CNN there's fears she's become, quote, "too toxic" in the ongoing Democratic civil war. The feud between the DNC chair and the Sanders campaign reaching a fever pitch after chaos erupted at the Nevada Democratic convention.

JEFF WEAVER, BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN: She's been throwing shade on the Sanders campaign since the very beginning.

JOHNS: Sanders accusing the head of the DNC of supporting Hillary Clinton before the primaries even began, something she vehemently denied.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: San Bernardino, thank you!

JOHNS: Sanders fighting on, hoping to defeat Clinton in the upcoming delegate-rich primary in California. Secretary Clinton less than 100 delegates away from clinching the nomination, looking towards the general election.

CLINTON: I need your help in this upcoming primary, because we want to finish strong.

JOHNS: And pledging to stop Trump.

CLINTON: Why on earth would we elect somebody president who actually rooted for the collapse of the mortgage market?

JOHNS: But Sanders believes that he would be the best challenger against the presumptive Republican nominee.

SANDERS: If we get the Democrat nomination, Donald Trump is toast.

JOHNS: And in the fight to gain traction, the Sanders campaign calling into question the results of last week's Kentucky primary. In a statement, the campaign says it's, quote, "requesting a full and complete recanvas of every one of the voting machines and absentee ballots."

Sanders lost to Clinton by a razor-thin margin of roughly 1,900 votes. A Clinton aide accusing Sanders of using the issue to raise more money for his campaign.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: The battle for the California primary is clearly picking up this morning. Bernie Sanders added some stops to his campaign schedule there. The Hillary Clinton campaign is expected to continue its attacks on Donald Trump today for his comments and business focus around the time the housing bubble burst -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Joe. Thanks so much for that preview. Well, the 2004 sexual assault case against Bill Cosby will go to

trial. A Pennsylvania judge ordering that there is enough evidence to order the embattled comedian to face a jury on criminal charges. CNN's Jean Casarez is live in Norristown, Pennsylvania, with more.

Good morning, Jean.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Bill Cosby's team really wanted to get these charges dismissed yesterday, at one point yelling at the judge, saying an America should not sit in a courtroom to have to go through this. But in the end the judge ruled, this case is proceeding to trial.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[06:15:21] CASAREZ (voice-over): A judge ruling there is enough evidence for Bill Cosby to stand trial for the alleged sexual assault of a former Temple University employee in 2004.

KEVIN STEELE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We only have to show that a crime's committed and the defendant's connected to the crime. It's a preliminary hearing. Hearsay is admissible, and we're just over the next hurdle in this.

CASAREZ: A police detective reading in court for the first time statements the accuser, Andrea Constand, made to police in 2005. In them, she says Cosby encouraged her to drink wine and take blue pills at his Pennsylvania home. Shortly after, she says her vision blurred. Her legs were rubbery. She felt dizzy, frozen, scared and unable to speak but was aware of Cosby putting his hands on her breasts and down her pants.

In Cosby's only statement to police he admits to touching and kissing her and giving Constand Benadryl to help her relax but maintains the encounter was consensual.

STEELE: The point of this is that it was intoxicating to her, and she was unable to consent.

CASAREZ: The defense attacking Constand's credibility, saying parts of her statement were crossed out or redacted.

BRIAN MCMONAGLE, BILL COSBY'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They presented an 11- year-old statement that was riddled with corrections and inconsistencies.

CASAREZ: They point to one incident at a casino where Cosby was performing. He invited Constand back to his room. Constand initially says she laid down on the bed with Cosby, their legs touching, but she later crossed that out, saying the two were relaxed, close to one another.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Now, the big, looming question, will other accusers of Bill Cosby be allowed to testify at his trial? This is going to be a huge pretrial issue. There will probably be a big hearing in the courthouse behind me.

The defense will say it is prejudicial to Bill Cosby. He's not on trial for these other women. But the prosecution will say it is probative. Not to determine the guilt or innocence on these other women, but to show that Bill Cosby committed prior bad acts and that the intent was to sexually assault Andrea Constand -- Chris.

CUOMO: Bad acts analysis comes down to the weight of relevance versus the weight of prejudice. The judge will decide. Jean, thanks for keeping us on the loop in that one.

All right. So are we seeing another side of the Sanders effect on the party? Just days after Bernie Sanders calmed out Debbie Wasserman Schultz, accusing her of favoring Hillary Clinton, party leaders are considering removing their chairwoman. Is she not just toxic, but too toxic? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:22:04] CAMEROTA: OK. Sources tell CNN that leading Democrats are considering whether Debbie Wasserman Schultz should be removed as DNC chair, saying she may have become too toxic after exchanging some strong words with Bernie Sanders.

CUOMO: Toxic isn't enough. Only in politics is toxic not the bar.

CAMEROTA: That's right. We'll have Britney Spears weigh in on that later.

Let's discuss with our panel: David Gregory, Jackie Kucinich and Matt Lewis.

So Matt, can she be removed? Is this the right cause if she's exchanged strong words with Bernie Sanders?

LEWIS: Well, I think it's part of a larger narrative, that Bernie Sanders is saying the game is rigged. Look, he's calling for a recanvassing in Kentucky. That's a state where you had Alison Lundergan Grimes, a Hillary Clinton supporter, who called the election before the A.P.

So there is a sort of a pattern, I think, where at least the appearance that the game is rigged against Bernie Sanders. And going into a convention where it's going to be contentious, chaotic, messy, as Bernie Sanders said, if you wanted to quell that, you know, chaos, maybe having a different chairperson would be a good idea.

KUCINICH: But this ultimately is, if Hillary Clinton is the nominee, it is her decision. And Debbie Wasserman Schultz has been a Hillary Clinton loyalist from the very beginning, and she is a great fundraiser. She has a lot going for her.

CAMEROTA: But she's not going anywhere? KUCINICH: It's up to Hillary Clinton and her campaign, and right now

Hillary Clinton is saying that it would be too messy, to use that word.

LEWIS: It will be really messy, because she's not going to go down quietly. She will not go into that good night. She has -- she has signaled before that, if anybody tries to oust her from her perch, that she will go on the...

KUCINICH: Because it happened before. She's a very controversial figure within the Democratic Party, and there have been these behind- the-scenes kind of back-stabbing...

CAMEROTA: Coups.

LEWIS: Even before Bernie.

KUCINICH: Way before Bernie. In 2014 we heard them.

CUOMO: They don't call them coups, because you can't take power from the chair. It really is a top-down organization. So the president, when you're in power. When you're not in power, it's a little different. It's really your call.

KUCINICH: Yes.

CUOMO: So the idea of like, an insurgency is a little misleading and, also, the feeling, David Gregory, is that she's not the root of the problems in the party right now. It's the disconnect in the Democrat population of what they want out of a nominee.

GREGORY: Well, yes, but I do think this is overblown. I mean, yes, we keep saying the rules in the parties, in both parties, favors the insider. It is not meant to -- to elevate the unconventional outside candidate. That's true in the Republican side, and it's probably truer on the Democratic side with the super delegates.

But the answer to this is to win. And Bernie Sanders is not going to win.

CUOMO: But it sounds bad, David, even the way -- you know, you describe it very benignly there, but it still sounds bad. It sounds like inherently...

GREGORY: I disagree.

CUOMO: ... these parties are undemocratic.

GREGORY: Well, right. Because they are designed, the rules are designed in a way that makes it very difficult for someone who is an unconventional candidate to break through. I mean, that's just the fact of the matter. The reality is this year is that you have unconventional candidates who have broken through.

LEWIS: Right. [06:25:08] GREGORY: But look, Hillary Clinton had a lot of control

over the Democratic Party back in 2008, but she didn't win, because Barack Obama was stronger, won more pledged delegates, had a different kind of organization to do that across the country.

So, look, Bernie Sanders, this is messy. Part of the angst about Debbie Wasserman Schultz, it's been going on a long time. Let's not forget, Bernie Sanders supporters, acting the way they did out in Las Vegas was not appropriate. OK. He's got to be able to own that.

The other piece of it is all of these people who are going to be representing him, a disproportionate amount on the platform committee, he's going to have a big role in the convention. So a lot -- there is certainly discord within the Democratic Party. It's not as big as we've seen and are seeing on the Republican side, and there are some really challenges -- real challenges for Hillary Clinton to bring over Bernie Sanders supporters. All of that is true, even if the other truth is that she's still winning, both on pledged delegates and on the super delegates.

CAMEROTA: Matt, let's talk about what happened last night at the D.C. Gala. Elizabeth Warren, who was the speaker there, picked up on the thread that Hillary Clinton had been talking about the past couple of days, and that is that Donald Trump had been rooting in one statement for housing collapse, because then he could gobble up property more cheaply.

And Elizabeth Warren basically said who does that? Who roots for people to lose their houses? That's sort of anti-America is what she suggested. Are they -- is Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton coordinating their messages, or is Elizabeth Warren just doing this sort of freelance on her own?

LEWIS: I think they clearly are. And I think it's not just Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren. It's all the surrogates. I think, unlike the Republicans, they're going to be able to coordinate the message. And that's what it's going to take. Because No. 1, I think you need to get a good message. It's unclear to me whether or not this works, because Donald Trump just says, "Look, I was a businessman."

CAMEROTA: Sure did.

LEWIS: But if they were...

CAMEROTA: Totally.

LEWIS: Even if you do settle on a good message, then you can't just throw it out once. It has to be a consistent drum beat, and we're going to test now. They're going to test whether or not that actually resonates.

CUOMO: Well, her -- Jackie, let's talk about what her potency is, Elizabeth Warren. What does she offer? She's kind of the closest thing to Sanders that Clinton has. Right? I mean, many people thought that Elizabeth Warren should have been carrying the message that Bernie Sanders is carrying as a nominee.

And she has another thing going with Trump. Trump calling her the Pocahontas stuff sets her up in a way where she can say, "How about what he said about me?" That may be more powerful for her than the stuff about what he did in 2006. That does not make him unique, seeing opportunities in a down market.

KUCINICH: She has an ability to get under his skin that the Clinton campaign really likes. She bothers him. And when you're talking about Donald Trump you kind of want to get him off kilter.

CUOMO: Goes to temperament.

KUCINICH: Goes to temperament. And it shows that he hasn't been able, up to this point, to really get a wrap -- wrap on when people get under his skin and they really irritate him. He tends to go off, and Elizabeth Warren has been successful in setting him off.

LEWIS: I think you have to mock him. I think you have -- if I were advising Hillary Clinton, I would say hire comedians, people who -- Hollywood loves liberals. Bring in people who can tell you how to -- Barack Obama does a very good job of this.

KUCINICH: Delivery is key.

LEWIS: Marco Rubio tried to do this, and there was something there.

CUOMO: But you can't mock -- you can't mock the motivation of those who support him. That's the mistake that people make.

LEWIS: True.

CUOMO: You see Trump, you may want to see him as somewhat cartoonish. Gregory, button it up for us. You've made this point many times very well. If you mock him, that's one thing. If you mock why people are behind him, that's another.

GREGORY: Yes, I agree with that, but I think you can keep it trained on him. Elizabeth Warren is getting under his skin, in part not only because she can go toe to toe with him, because she's saying what does he actually know? She said, "You should ask him about Dodd-Frank and if he knows three things that are actually in the law." So she keeps jabbing at that.

And whether there's, you know, coordination, I suspect there is, but she can be a very effective surrogate, I think, for Hillary Clinton. Again, they want message discipline here, to keep going and defining him early in a way that can hurt him.

CUOMO: That's what a surrogate is. There's no...

CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you very much. Let's gets to Ana.

CABRERA: We're stuck in Trump world. There's a lot happening overseas this morning just days after their leader was killed by a U.S. drone strike. The Afghan Taliban has a new chief this morning. What do we know about this leadership? We'll have a closer look when NEW DAY continues.

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