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New Day

Shots Ring Out at T.I. Concert in New York; Democratic Senator Proposing Legislation that would Force Presidential Candidates to Release Taxes; Interview with Congressman Darrell Issa. Aired 6:30-7a ET.

Aired May 26, 2016 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERICAL BREAK)

[06:30:33] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Leaders in 11 states are now taking the Obama administration to court. The culture wars are going a legal route essentially. They're suing over the guidelines saying transgender students should be able to use the bathroom that match their gender identities. Texas, Alabama, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Utah and Georgia are all in on this suit. If you didn't catch it it's okay. You can go on the website and you'll see the states that are there.

Also, you have Arizona's Department of Education and Maine governor, Paul Lepage. And they're all arguing the same thing. Essentially that the Obama administration overstepped its authority.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Take a look at these pictures from northern Kansas where a massive tornado touched down last night. This is Dickinson county it's west of Topeka. The funnel cloud was said to be a quarter mile wide at some places. Several people are hurt, 15 to 20 homes completely destroyed and this twister just missed the city of Chapman -- Chatnam, I should say, where a deadly tornado struck back in 2008.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight, sheer panic erupting in New York City after shots rang out at a concert that was supposed to feature the rapper T.I. Now, one person is dead. Several are hurt. Police are examining some surveillance video hunting for the gunman who is still out there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA (voice-over): A hip hop concert in NYC turning into pandemonium after shots rang out backstage before rapper T.I. performed, leaving one dead and several injured and sending terrified concert goers running for cover.

AYO FAGBEMI, WITNESS TO CONCERT SHOOTING: In the midst of the concert, I heard two pops. And then, right after that, it was like a whole, like, stampede of everyone trying to rush out. Insane. Absolutely insane.

CABRERA: One witness capturing the frenzied moments right after the shooting on cell phone video. Tweeting, "gunshots just went off at the T.I. concert. Never been so scared in my life. Officials confirming rapper T.I. was not injured in the melee.

CHIEF WILLIAM AUBRY, MANHATTAN SOUTH DETECTIVES: At this point, we have identified four gunshot victims, three males, one female. One of the males, unfortunately has been pronounced dead.

CABRERA: Law enforcement telling CNN they have no suspects in custody, but are reviewing surveillance tapes which may have caught some of the shooting on video.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Wow, what a scene there. We'll follow up on -- with the details as they come out in that investigation. Let's take a little break here right now.

Donald Trump won't release his taxes. It's been a continuing issue. He says he's not doing it because he's under audit. His critics say he's stone walling. Now one Democratic senator has a plan. He actually has a bill to try to make a law to force presidential candidates to hand over three years of taxes.

What could be in there and what's going to happen here? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:37:15] CUOMO: A new twist in the election politics. One Democratic senator proposing legislation that would force all presidential candidates to release their three most recent tax returns within 15 days of being their party's nominee. It's a direct challenge of course, to the presumptive nominee, Donald Trump, who's refusing to release his taxes until he says an IRS audit is finished.

Let's discuss why this matters, if it matters. We have the Tax History Project director Joseph Thorndike. And we have CNN political commentator, former Reagan White House Political Director, Jeffrey Lord, who is of course. a Trump supporter.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning Chris.

CUOMO: Joe, why do you care about these taxes. What could be in there that makes this relevant?

JOSEPH THORNDIKE, DIRECTOR OF TAX HISTORY PROJECT: Well, you know, I think the main reason we care is that transparency is valuable all by itself. But more to the point, you know, there have been problems in the past. This is a tradition that started with Richard Nixon because he had problems with the taxes. So it's a real possibility that something could be amiss.

CUOMO: And we know Nixon was actually under audit. He wound up owning money -- owing money, and yet he put them out. My question to you Jeffrey is, isn't this a big so what for anybody who's going to vote for Donald Trump? Is there anything you could imagine being in his taxes, you know, short of video or maybe not even short of video of him, like attacking baby seals, that would matter to people who support him?

LORD: Yes, I don't think so Chris. I mean, I really do think -- I keep coming back to that -- those people at Carrier Air Conditioning. I mean, if anybody really thinks that they're sitting around the table, you know, newly unemployed, saying the big issue in their life is Donald Trump's taxes, I think that's a mistake.

Secondly, I mean, I'm one of these people that -- I think this is irrelevant, totally. President Clinton released his taxes. He was impeached for something that had nothing to do with his taxes. So, in other words, releasing your taxes is no prescription, or no sort of look into whether or not you're going to conduct the presidency in a certain particular fashion.

And the last thing Chris, is, the IRS director right at the moment, is under threat of impeachment. There is a huge distrust in America from the American people about the integrity of the IRS itself. So, I think that in a -- in a way, Donald Trump is right in tune with the American people.

CUOMO: Well, that may be a little bit too far there Jeffrey, right? I mean, what's going on with the investigation at the IRS, has nothing to do with anything that would pertain to Trump's taxes. It has to be with how they were looking at dark money.

LORD: No, it has...

CUOMO: Whether it was partisan enough. But, I guess it generally goes to trust and what the IRS does. Let me ask you each a question.

Jeffrey, do you believe there's a chance that Donald Trump gets audited as much as he says he does because he's such a strong Christian?

[06:40:02] LORD: I think -- you know, after what we've seen with Lois Lerner, yes, I think there's any number of reasons why he could be audited.

CUOMO: Well, no. Not any number of reasons. I'm saying, he said to me...

LORD: Sure.

CUOMO: ... after the debate one night. Maybe it's because I'm such a strong Christian. Do you put any faith in that all?

LORD: Sure. I mean, I think anything is entirely possible. Because I think that, you know, we've got an IRS that is out of control and they're capable of doing anything and they've shown that.

CUOMO: OK.

LORD: So, who knows. CUOMO: So Joe, rebut this presumption. I'm not saying that taxes don't matter. I get why they've become part of the tradition. I get why it's important for transparency. But it doesn't seem to be taking root in this situation with Donald Trump in any real way. I know that Clinton's campaign is going heavy on it, but I don't know that it's bearing any fruit. Make the case.

THORNDIKE: Well, I mean, there was a poll yesterday that said -- indicated that something like 67 percent...

CUOMO: Yes, put up the number. We have the poll. Put up the number. It's -- over 67 percent say he should, there's no question. But the question becomes, you know...

THORNDIKE: Yes, so I think...

CUOMO: The question is, so what.

THORNDIKE: I think people care.

CUOMO: They care, but...

THORNDIKE: I think people care. You know, I don't think the care about the specifics of the taxes unless a big problem develops. But I think they care when they feel like someone's hiding something. And when a candidate tries to break a tradition that's 40 years old, I think that that raises legitimate questions. So, again, it comes back to the transparency. We could speculate about what might be there and what might not be there, but the speculation is bad. That's what we want to avoid. We actually need the facts.

CUOMO: Well, you'll see what he made as income last year. You'll see what he gave in charity last year. You will see those things. You'll see personal reckonings. You will be able to divine what a practical tax rate was. You will be able to somewhat see that in explicit ways, where he's actually on documents and in powers, a fiduciary, who he did business with.

And I guess lastly, you see the point there about interpreting tax law.

Doesn't the biggest question come down to this though, Jeffrey, in terms of that 60 plus percent who want this, is that Trump isn't giving these to you because he doesn't want to. It's not really about the audit. He doesn't want the potential downside. That seems to be clear among his critics. Can you rebut that presumption?

LORD: Well, I mean, I think that it's pretty clear that what his critics want this for is for politics. You know, that they will zero in on whatever, A, B or C. And they will proceed to make a big deal out of whatever it is.

CUOMO: Well, isn't that why you want Clinton's speeches?

LORD: Is that why I want Clinton's speeches? Well, you know, I don't think it's the same as taxes, Chris. I mean, if we're going to get into this, the presumptive reason that, as I hear Joe, is because somebody running for president or a potential president, is powerful. That lesson could be applied to all kinds of people. I mean, to you, to me, to Joe, to any number of people. I mean, maybe everybody in America should release their tax returns. I just don't buy into the premise.

CUOMO: Well, the premises is, you're running for president. We should know who you are and what you're about and any way we that helps us do that, we should take.

LORD: Yes, but I mean, it's the power (ph) Chris? Why not every television anchor? Why not every university president? Why not anybody...

CUOMO: Cause we're not asking the American people to put in us the trust of the ultimate power in the world. But Jeffrey Lord, I take your case.

LORD: Well I -- yes.

CUOMO: We've got to move on.

Joe Thorndike, hank you very much.

Jeffrey Lord, as always, thank you for your provocative angles.

Alisyn

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's talk about the TSA. As you know, it is under fire for those long, agonizing lines at airports. Well, the agency insists it has plans to speed things up, but some critics say it is time to privatize airport security. We have the details ahead on New Day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:47:44] CAMEROTA: The new Taliban leader is refusing to engage in peace talks with the Afghan government, promising instead to unite the terror group and fight against its enemies.

This action comes as the Taliban claimed responsibility Wednesday for a suicide bombing Kabul. At least ten people were killed and four others injured, including two children.

CABRERA: American sniper Chris Kyle's military valor awards are now in question. A Navy official telling military.com it's aware that Kyle's discharge papers show more military valor awards than he apparently earned and they're now looking into this (ph). Navy personnel documents reportedly show Kyle earned one silver star and three bronze stars instead of the two silver stars and five bronze stars that he claimed.

CUOMO: Donald Trump and comedian Jimmy Kimmell doing some story time. Kimmell was reading a sequel to the mock kids' book "Winners Aren't Losers". It's called "Winners Still Aren't Losers." Here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: Everybody settle in. I'll read this to you. Here we go.

"Winners aren't losers, I told you before, but that is not all. There is more, so much more. Come along if you don't want to die sad and poor."

(LAUGHTER)

"Do you like to win? I'll teach you for a fee, when you enroll at Win University. Tuition 5 billion, 6 million and three. My school is the best, everyone graduates. Just ask my alumni like Buffett and Gates."

(LAUGHTER)

"The first thing I'll teach you is how to debate. The way to debate is to say the word 'great.' Let's make America great, great, great, great. Say great, nothing else. Never tell them your plans, then depart with a wave of your long fingered hands."

(LAUGHTER)

"So that's how to win. Now you know all my tricks to come out on top in U.S. politics. Just do as I do when you're out on the stump and you'll all be winners..."

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: "...like me, Donald Trump."

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He liked it.

CABRERA: That was great. Great, great, great, great. Am I a winner, guys?

CUOMO: All day long.

CABRERA: I said it. Great, great, great.

CUOMO: Not everybody was laughing, though, although it was undeniably funny. The singer, The Weeknd, and rapper, Belly, canceled their appearances on Kimmel when they found out Trump was going to be on.

CAMEROTA: Well Donald Trump seemed to like it.

CABRERA: He played along.

CAMEROTA: He seemed to be enjoying it...

[06:50:00] CUOMO: When he said "true," I don't think he was saying "true" to "no plans." He was saying "true" to "long fingers."

(LAUGHTER) CABRERA: These comedians have got to be having a hay day with this election cycle.

CUOMO: They are. I have a prediction, though. I think Donald Trump is going to pull back on some of these as this election goes on.

CAMEROTA: Doing some of those appearances?

CUOMO: Yes. I think temperament for him and his ability to, as his guy Paul Manafort said yesterday, "fill the chair," is going to become more and more focus of him and he's going to try to seem...

CABRERA: But he becomes endearing in some of those situations.

CAMEROTA: As they all do.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: That's the balance.

CAMEROTA: All right. In the meantime, summer travel, of course, is heating up as airport security lines get longer. The TSA hiring hundreds of screeners to try to ease the pain, but is privatizing security a better way to go? We will speak with Congressman Darrell Issa who says yes, next.

CUOMO: Will that make it easier for you to smuggle...

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CAMEROTA: The Transportation Security Administration under fire for exceptionally long lines at U.S. airports. This led to the firing this week of the TSA's security chief and yesterday the top administrator took a grilling from lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

The agency says it plans to add nearly 800 new screeners for the busy summer travel season, but our next guest says privatizing airport security is the answer.

Congressman Darrell Issa joins us now. Good morning, Congressman.

[06:54:51] REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: Good morning, Alisyn. And thank you for phrasing it that way. Clearly, when you look at a failed organization, you ask why would it be better some other way, and when you go to San Francisco where they have and always have had this private public partnership, what you find is it's better. In one of the most liberal cities in America, they have less government workers, more private workers being supervised, ultimately, by TSA officials at the top.

CAMEROTA: Look, I don't want to editorialize here, and I do want to hear the other side, but if you've flown in the past year it's very hard to miss that something seems to be not working. You know, nobody wants to sacrifice security and if that's what's going so well then I think that everybody would take the extra added hour. However, there's all sorts of evidence that security is not going so well either. All these internal investigations show that 95 percent of the time these undercover agents can sneak something dangerous on board.

Congressman, who do you blame? Who specifically do you blame for the long lines that Americans are seeing at the airports now?

ISSA: I blame the basic, if you will, pattern of government. When you take government it's going to be more bureaucratic. When you unionize government it's going to be more bureaucratic. If you take an industry that needs to surge, to rise and fall, but you really don't have any flexibility in the workforce, it's going to be inefficient. You're either going to have too many people standing around a lot or it's going to be constantly short at peak times.

And airports have peak times. It's one of the reasons that a private system that allows for part-time workers or workers who are reprogrammed to other duties during nonpeak times can be more flexible, meet the requirements of the traveler, and ultimately, the point you made is so good, be three times more likely to catch the bad things in these random tests. That's a huge difference in safety.

CAMEROTA: But just explain this. How could privatizing the security cut down on the lines? If there's peak times when everybody shows up, how does a private security system work better?

ISSA: TSA is a full-time only organization. So you're spending over $100,000 per person between wages and benefits for somebody who is going to be a government full-time employee. That means they work eight hours or they don't work at all. When you look at the private sector solutions, one of the things they'll do is they'll either hire some part-time people, retirees and others who are happy to have these jobs, or they'll shift people from completely different jobs at peak times. This improves morale, lowers turnover, which is incredibly important when you're trying to have people do repetitive jobs.

You know, one of the problems you and I go through and we're sort of bored going through the line if you do it a lot. Well, imagine being somebody that does that every day for a career, just moves those little buckets from one place to another. It's not an easy job to stay motivated but you have to. Every single passenger is a possibility for a security threat, and you've got to treat each one with the same sort of quick, but accurate testing, and that's one of the problems this organization suffers from that, for example, San Francisco and 21 other places do much better. And these tests have shown us the other system works better, but we're not going to it.

CAMEROTA: Well, who's fighting you?

ISSA: Well, to be candid, all along this has been about those who want to support large amounts of government individuals and a central union. Of course they're going to fight us. But I think the passengers who see better safety, shorter lines and, according to the GAO, at least a billion dollars in savings are on our side that this isn't about people losing jobs, this is about moving to a system that works in some places that have been allowed to have it and expanding, allowing more places to have it sooner.

CAMEROTA: But how many people would lose their jobs? If you got rid of the TSA and you privatize, what would that look like?

ISSA: Remember, we wouldn't get rid of the TSA. We want to have a safety organization at the top that looks at it and then ultimately make sure that the contractors at these airports are held to a high standard. If we go back to 9/11 we didn't have the standards in place to stop the hijackers, so one of the things that we learned is we have to have an organization that's vigilantly, constantly looking at the threat and how somebody may evade it, if you will, box cutters, as in 9/11.

So we're in a position now where we have an organization, over 4,000 of those 42,000 people work at corporate headquarters, most of that probably wouldn't go away, but the idea that somebody is a full-time government employee for 20 years moving that bucket from one place to the other so you can put your small items in it, that's an area where you look and say, you know what? That's not really where the security is. The security is in the knowledge and the oversight of people doing these mundane jobs, but doing them in a way that shorten our lines and is more responsive.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Congressman Issa, we appreciate you coming on NEW DAY and giving us your side of this argument and by the way, you can read Congressman Issa's op-ed on this on cnn.com.