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Hillary Clinton Vs. Donald Trump; Strengths & Weaknesses Of Clinton & Trump; Will Disaffected Voters Support Third Party?; Gary Johnson Hoping To Make It On Debate Stage; Clinton Becomes First Female Presumptive Nominee; Interview with Sen. Claire McCaskill. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 08, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:32:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are getting ready to go head-to-head in the general election and by all indications it's going to be a slugfest, right? It seems that policy is going to go second to the personal, so what are the predictions? What are the strengths and weaknesses?

Let's bring in Ron Fournier. He's a senior political columnist at the "National Journal". An author of a great book, "Love That Boy: What Two Presidents, Eight Road Trips, And My Son Taught Me About A Parent's Expectations".

We also have a very good author in his own right, David Gregory, CNN political analyst and host of the redoubtable "David Gregory Show" podcast.

Gentlemen, thank you very much. Let's just do this like a tale of the tape. Ron, when you look at Hillary Clinton, what are the weaknesses for Trump to exploit?

RON FOURNIER, SENIOR POLITICAL COLUMNIST, "NATIONAL JOURNAL": Yes, and that's what we're talking about in this election is weaknesses because all the data shows that voters are not going to vote for the candidate who they like the most. They're looking for the candidate they loathe the least, so this is all about who can disqualify whom.

For Hillary Clinton, she is the perfect gift for Donald Trump. He's running as a change disruption candidate, so running against somebody who is an institution, who is the status quo, is his best draw.

For Hillary Clinton, the fact that she's running as an institution, a creature of Washington, a status quo candidate, she needs -- in an environment where people want change really badly she needs to run against somebody who is unsuited for the job, and she started to make a pretty good case last night that Donald Trump is unsuited. Actually, Donald Trump has made a very good case these last few weeks that he's unsuited for the job.

CUOMO: Brother Gregory, what did you make of the new set of salvos from Trump last night about the CGI, the Clinton Global Initiation Foundation, saying that they made the Clintons hundreds of millions of dollars in deals as favors to people? That the State Department was her own hedge fund. Do you think he can put meat on the bones on those allegations or do you think he doesn't have to?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I don't know that he can. I think he will have to because I think that base of negativity toward Clinton, I think, is already baked in for a lot of voters.

I think he's trying to do two things. He's trying to reach those people who on the fence about him or her and try to suppress her turnout and suppress any of that positive feeling toward her. And even, again, paint her as just a corrupt person, part of the establishment, and somebody that you just can't trust or believe, and the ultimate insider in an unconventional outsider year.I think he wants to try to exploit all of that.

[07:35:00] His is very much the politics of personal grievance. It's a very dark tale about where America is and where he argues it's headed, and he does not represent the new America. This past week in his racist attack on Judge Curiel certainly shows that.

Hillary Clinton is trying to position herself, as of last night, as more of a historic candidate and someone who speaks for, and to, the aspirations of a new America.

CUOMO: So, we saw, Ron, in the form of Paul Ryan, really a metaphor for just the box that the GOP leadership is in right now. Calls him a racist. Forget about Mexican not being a race and being a heritage. Basically, points to his bigotry but then says but I have to back him.

FOURNIER: Right.

CUOMO: We've never seen a situation like this before in an election. What's the compromise?

FOURNIER: I don't know what it is. You know, it's even bigger than you're saying, Chris. He's exemplifying what all voters are facing. I don't like Donald Trump's bigotry but I really don't feel good about Hillary Clinton's ethics. That's what I'm saying.

A lot of voters are going to have to make this devil's choice. It's why I think anybody, a dead person, could get 10-12 percent as an Independent candidate at the cycle. And it's why I think Gary Johnson's going to do better than a lot of people realize because people are just looking for something better than these two alternatives.

CUOMO: We got Gary Johnson on this show, the former governor of New Mexico, again today on NEW DAY. We've had him a couple of times in the past. We'll see what he has to say about all this. But, David, when you look at this -- to carry on Ron's analogy about this about who we loathe the least. If that's the proposition, which one of these two candidates is more set up to make you hate them less?

GREGORY: Well, I think the answer to that question will come down to a contrast. Ultimately, they don't want it to be just a referendum on them. It's going to be a choice between two candidates, two visions for the country.

And this is why I think, ultimately, temperament is so important because ultimately we're taking the measure of these two people. How will they handle a crisis? How will they handle adversity? How will they handle the complexities of our foreign policy and the national security threats that America faces? The complexities of the future of the economy?

And that's why how they make decisions, how they deal with adversity, tells us so much about their approach. I think, ultimately, this is not about issues, this is about personal characteristics.

FOURNIER: I agree.

GREGORY: And, ultimately, who do you picture in the job? And that's why this point about what we're learning about Trump, I think, could be so important and so impactful on how voters view it.

CUOMO: Do you believe, Ron, that this is a flashpoint for Donald Trump? That whether it was a combination of variables, what he said about the media in such concentrated fashion?

FOURNIER: No doubt about it.

CUOMO: What he said about the judge in such concentrated fashion and him attacking an institution, or was it misconstrued, as he says.

FOURNIER: Oh, it wasn't misconstrued. That's his problem. He thinks he can pivot from this. We now can look at the tape. It wasn't misconstrued. What he said is a dictionary definition of bigotry and sexism. He also said women might not be able to rule on him because they're not men.

This is a flashpoint for the entire Republican Party, not just Donald Trump. We may look back at this week and see it's when Donald Trump lost the presidency and when Republicans lost the Senate, and maybe even lost the House, or certainly lost a lot of seats because you can't put this toothpaste back in the tube. You can't pivot from bigotry.

You saw Paul Ryan struggling over that yesterday. How in the world do you endorse somebody who says that because somebody is Hispanic they can't do their jobs?

CUOMO: Right, but also remember --

FOURNIER: How do hang onto that endorsement?

CUOMO: Remember what else Ryan -- let's end the segment on this thought. Ryan also said, though, yesterday, "We have more common ground on the policy issues of the day and a likelihood of getting our policies enacted with Trump than we do with her." And the Supreme Court and the nominations that could be coming also will loom large and makes Trump a proxy that is just anybody but Clinton.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for making us better, as always, on NEW DAY. We'll speak to both of you soon.

FOURNIER: Thank you.

GREGORY: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: If neither Clinton nor Trump are your cup of tea you do have a third option, Libertarian Party nominee Gary Johnson, and we will speak with him live, next.

[07:39:35]

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[07:43:00] CAMEROTA: Dissatisfaction with Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump could leave the door open for a third party candidate. The Libertarian ticket, led by Gary Johnson, is hoping to make a big dent there, and Gary Johnson joins us now live to make the case. Good morning, Governor.

GARY JOHNSON, LIBERTARIAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Alisyn, thank you for having me on this morning.

CAMEROTA: Thanks for being on. So it was a big night last night, obviously historic, that Hillary Clinton becomes the first female nominee of a major party, and it does feel as if after last night this long primary is finally gelling. Obviously, you're running against these two household names, Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, so where is your inroad? Where do you get traction?

JOHNSON: Well, first of all, congratulations to Hillary. Yes, it was a long process, so it will be Clinton, it will be Trump, and I think that I offer, along with Bill Weld, a real alternative to the two. Being fiscally conservative -- look, smaller government is better.

Hillary, you know -- there isn't a rule, there isn't a regulation that isn't going to fix things, and I'm being facetious. Government can level the playing field. Crony capitalism is alive and well, so for all those Bernie supporters out there how about taking a look at the Libertarian ticket?

And then, with regard to our military interventions, I do think that Hillary's been the architect of what is happening worldwide and I don't think the world is any safer today. I think it has to do with our military interventions, boots on the ground, dropping bombs, flying drones that are killing thousands of innocent people.

Let's focus on what really is the threat. I happen to think that it's North Korea, but we'll save that discussion for another day.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JOHNSON: Congratulations, again, to Hillary. It really is a milestone. [07:45:00] CAMEROTA: After this latest dust-up with Donald Trump and the judge whom he called Mexican, we have heard several Republicans say that they will not be able to vote for Donald Trump. Mark Kirk came out, Lindsey Graham has come out.

And Sen. Ben Sasse says he can't vote for Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. This seems like someone who should be a great prospective voter for you, however, here's what he tweeted. Ben Sasse says "Johnson is pro-abortion, pro-executive overreach, bad on religious liberty, and naive on national security. Otherwise "solid".

Basically, he took you up on your invitation, for people who don't know much about you, to Google you. He says he did that and what he found sort of disheartened him. What's your response?

JOHNSON: Well, there's a lot of misinformation out there. Look, Libertarians -- whether you're socially conservative or socially liberal, Libertarians really don't care. Just don't force either one of those on me as an individual. And hey, when it comes to national security, if we're attacked we're going to attack back and we should have an impenetrable and invincible national defense, but I think we're anything but that these days.

And let's look at the real threat that exists in the world, which I think is North Korea and diplomacy to the hilt. I reject the fact that Libertarians are isolationists. Look, we should be engaged and we should look at these issues.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JOHNSON: When it comes to abortion, how can there be any -- how can there a more difficult choice that a woman would face? But at the end of the day shouldn't it be the woman that deals with that issue and no one else?

CAMEROTA: Well, social conservatives just disagree with you. I mean, that's where you lose social conservatives. They think that being pro-choice is a deal breaker. Is it possible -- I know you're trying to extend an open hand to Republicans, but is it possible that the Republican Party has become more conservative and somebody who says it's a woman's choice, that will not appeal to them?

JOHNSON: Alisyn, my experience in the Republican Party, having been the Republican governor in a heavily-blue state, was first and foremost, Republicans were about smaller government. When you look at abortion and what can the government do when it comes to abortion, do you really want to criminalize the woman or the doctor involved in a situation that is just horribly difficult? But the woman involved -- shouldn't that woman have the right to make that decision?

And I fully acknowledge what a difficult issue this is and how divided people are on it, but in my own experience, look, Republicans at the beginning and the end of the day are all about smaller government. That's the Republican Party that I was a part of.

CAMEROTA: Do you think you're going to be able to realistically be on the debate stage with Clinton and Trump?

JOHNSON: You know, my name is continuing to appear in the polls. There are a lot of polls that go by without my name, but I think that that is a self-fulfilling prophecy, that people will check it out. And Ben Sasse, his comments. Hey, if you Google Gary Johnson and check it out and abortion is the deal breaker, I do extend a hand.

Should that really be government's role or should it be a person's choice? And Libertarians are going to always come down on the side of personal choice as long as those choices don't put others in harm's way.

CAMEROTA: Governor Gary Johnson, thanks so much for coming on and spelling out your position. It's great to see you.

JOHNSON: Alisyn, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: History, or maybe herstory for Clinton. Why it's such a big deal for Hillary Clinton to be the first presumptive nominee of a major political party, and what it does and does not mean going forward -- next.

[07:48:00]

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[07:52:50]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Thanks to you we've reached a milestone. The first time in our nation's history that a woman will be a major party nominee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: She's right. Hillary Clinton becoming the presumptive Democratic nomination is a moment of history. It's not just big politically, it's a milestone for the country as the first time a woman will be the top of the ticket in November. The question is, what does this mean in the race?

Let's discuss with one her top supporters, Sen. Claire McCaskill from Missouri. Senator, always good to see you -- the significance?

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL, (D) MISSOURI, ENDORSED HILLARY CLINTON: It's a big deal. I think a lot of women across the country last night were having one of those moments where we kind of like shook our head and said is this real? Has this really happened? Do we finally have a woman as a nominee of a major party?

I know, along with a lot of other women across the country in my generation, we missed our mothers. My mother, when I was seven years old, told me I had to say "trick or treat" and vote for JFK. She convinced me when I was a young girl I could be anything.

And there were a lot of women missing and, of course, Hillary Clinton talked about her mother last night. But it is -- it's a special time and I think it's one that we need to really celebrate and not have this moment get lost in the back and forth of a pretty nasty campaign.

CUOMO: It is nasty, probably going to get nastier. Let's talk about that right now. It's not about whether or not we have a woman that is having people question Clinton. It's whether it's the right woman, right? That's what Donald Trump is saying.

He had a new line of attacks last night. I want to give you a chance to rebut what we've been hearing from that campaign and other critics. Here's what he said last night.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE: The Clintons have turned the politics of personal enrichment into an art form for themselves. They've made hundreds of millions of dollars selling access, selling favors, selling government contracts. And I mean hundreds of millions of dollars. Secretary Clinton even did all of the work on a totally illegal private server.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:55:00] CUOMO: All right, let's take it one at a time. Hillary Clinton was behind the servers. We just had the I.G. report, it's illegal. Do you accept that?

MCCASKILL: Well, I think it was against -- they're now saying that it was against policy. There's a difference between government policy in offices and the law as it relates to any kind of criminal activity. Donald Trump is not going to, obviously, pay any attention to those distinctions, whether it was a big distinction.

CUOMO: What about the Records Act?

MCCASKILL: Well, I think -- obviously, there's an investigation going on and I think at this juncture, obviously, there is absolutely nothing illegal that has been determined. And I think it's very clear that the things that were classified were classified after they moved across her server. Everyone at the State Department knew she was using this Email address.

And, by the way, she was doing exactly what her predecessors had done. I mean, Colin Powell hasn't even turned in his Emails to this day. So it is, I think -- we've heard an awful lot about this. I think, more importantly, people need to ask themselves who do you want on the world's stage representing our country.

CUOMO: Well, to that point --

MCCASKILL: Somebody who is vulgar, and racist, and reckless, and a buffoon when he says things that are totally dangerous to our country. I mean, that's the contrast that people are going to be looking at. CUOMO: Well -- but, obviously, as always, as you're making the point about Trump, character counts. And another point of attack for him is going to be the Clinton Global Initiative, whether it's why the tax returns were restated and what that means. What deals Bill Clinton was making with Russia and uranium. What kind of shady nations were able to give a lot of money to that foundation while Clinton was the Secretary of State? These are real concerns. Do you think that you have real answers?

MCCASKILL: Well, I think that the Clinton Foundation did a lot of good around the world and Hillary Clinton could have easily said no, I don't want to be Secretary of State, I want to go make more money. At any juncture Hillary Clinton could have made a choice in her life to make money. She made a choice at every juncture in her life to serve the public.

Every scar she has came from public service and I think that's important to remember. She has fought her entire life for the public good and to turn a presidential foundation, which all presidents do, into something nefarious,I think is just politics.

CUOMO: Do you think that these allegations will wind up being hollow or whether it's what happened to the money for the hospital in Haiti, or what money did the Clintons make, because as we both know, they made a lot of money in their time since he was president. Do you think that those will become real issues or do you think that there are legitimate answers?

MCCASKILL: I think that there's going to be an awful lot of examination of Donald Trump's business practices. I think --

CUOMO: Senator, what does that have to do with the Clinton Global Initiative?

MCCASKILL: It has a lot to do with it.

CUOMO: I'm saying, do you think that they'll have real answers for that?

MCCASKILL: This campaign is about contrast, Chris. This is going to be about who do you want in the Oval Office? And if we're going to examine the foundation -- by the way, every former president has had foundations --

CUOMO: Right.

MCCASKILL: -- and has taken donations from foreign governments. This is not unusual. If we're going to compare that to some of the business practices of Donald Trump, that is what this campaign is about.

CUOMO: Are you worried about --

MCCASKILL: All we have to judge --

CUOMO: -- a "two wrongs" analysis? MCCASKILL: All we have to judge Donald -- no.

CUOMO: Is that a good defense if I ask you about something that you did and you say yes, well what about what you did?

MCCASKILL: No, I think that what we're going to do is compare two candidates. And if you look at Donald Trump's life and how he has conducted his life, and what he has said in public -- the vulgar things he's said in public, the racist things he says in this campaign. His inability -- I mean, he's famously said he's never even asked God for forgiveness, much less the American people when he says something as outrageous as he did about Judge Curiel.

So I think this is about temperament, it's about character, and I think somebody who has served the public all of their life versus somebody who's served themselves, not just in their business practices but in this campaign.

This is about the country and I thought what was so great about her speech last night -- she reminded us this is about uplifting people and about our country being seen in the world as a bright, shining light of equal opportunity and possibilities. That's not what Donald Trump's campaign is about. It's about --

CUOMO: Senator --

MCCASKILL: It's about dividing us and I think that's the contrast that people will be focused on as they make up their mind.

CUOMO: Senator McCaskill, as always, appreciate you making the case. I'll see you again on NEW DAY.

MCCASKILL: You bet.

CUOMO: All right, it was a big night. History was made. We have new numbers. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I will always have your back.

TRUMP: Some people say I'm too much of a fighter. My preference is always peace.

CLINTON: I want to congratulate Sen. Sanders.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We continue the fight in the last primary.

CLINTON: Tonight belongs to all of you.