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Democratic Senator Chris Murphy Filibusters on Senate Floor; Interview with Senator Chris Murphy; Orlando Killer Made Posts and Calls During Attack; Grand Jury To Consider Charges Against Killer's Wife. Aired 8:00-8:30a ET

Aired June 16, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] RACHAEL LILIENTHAL, SURVIVED ALLIGATOR ATTACK IN 2015: I know it will be a terrible challenge for the whole family.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: It will be a long time, if ever. But if there is nothing else you can share with them, it's that once a gator is intent on doing something, there's very little you can do about it. Rachael, I wish the best going forward. Stay in touch with us, let us know how it goes.

LILIENTHAL: Thank you.

CUOMO: Appreciate you being with us.

LILIENTHAL: Thanks for having me.

CUOMO: All right, we're following what's going on with the gator and that family. We're following developments about what's going on coming out of Orlando, including the Senate filibuster. They say the senator who started it, Chris Murphy, believes he has a deal. We've got him on the show coming up. Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need more than another moment of silence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Refusing to enact no fly, no buy is political malpractice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Convince the NRA to move forward on this, God bless him.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is too tough to do it alone, but, you know what, I think I'm going to be forced to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will be getting these votes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I yield the floor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cut me off and he said I'm the shooter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What the Orlando shooter did during the attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Government hosted several very disturbing messages.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New details about the wife's involvement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will leave no stone unturned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We recovered the remains of the two-year-old from the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Horror at the happiest place on either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to make certain we have the alligator that was involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. I'm here in Orlando, Florida. Alisyn is back in New York. And we begin with breaking news for you. A marathon filibuster on the Senate floor came to an end. It took 15 hours. The Democrat senator who started it says he secured an agreement to hold votes on two gun control measures. Is that true or is it more optimism than reality? We know that there is such a pained hope for change after the 49 lives that were taken here, Alisyn, and the dozens more, some of who are still in the hospital fighting for their lives.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely. And people want to see some sort of action, particularly as we learn new details about what the Orlando shooter did during the attack as well as the conflicting stories that his wife is now telling. In just hours President Obama and Vice President Biden will travel to Orlando to meet with those victims' families and the first responders.

We have this covered the way only CNN can, so let's begin with CNN's senior political reporter Manu Raju. He's live in Washington about the battle there in Congress. Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Good morning, Alisyn. Chris Murphy's nearly 15 hour filibuster marks actually the ninth longest in the history of the Senate. That was really a dramatic moment aimed at putting political pressure on the GOP. The main issue is legislation that would deny suspected terrorists the right to obtain firearms. But Republicans and Democrats each have their own bills, and they squabbled for months over how to structure such a bill. And each part's measures on this very issue have already been defeated in the Congress. So the question is, did Chris Murphy actually accomplish anything?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY, (D) CONNECTICUT: I've had enough. Tragedies continue to occur, and we just move forward with business as usual.

RAJU: Democratic Senator Chris Murphy ending his nearly 15 hour filibuster on the Senate floor early this morning after saying he has a commitment from Republican leaders to take on two proposed gun control measures. Quote, "I am proud to announce that after 14-plus hours on the floor, we will have a vote on closing the terror gap and universal background checks."

The dramatic scene comes just four days after the Orlando terrorist attack at a gay nightclub that killed 49 people and injured 53 others, the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. Dozens of Democrats joining Murphy on the Senate floor.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Through all of the shouting, we miss what should be obvious. It was a terrorist with a gun that killed all those people.

SEN. CORY BOOKER, (D) NEW JERSEY: Enough, enough, enough. What we're seeking is common sense.

RAJU: And even some Republican senators.

SEN. PAT TOOMEY, (R) PENNSYLVANIA: There is an obvious opportunity here, guys, to work together and find a solution.

RAJU: Murphy's voice amplified into the night as the #filibuster was trending on Twitter during his marathon session. The Connecticut senator had just been elected when a gunman shot and killed 20 first graders and six educators at Sandy Hook Elementary School in his home state, evoking this heartfelt plea.

MURPHY: I can't tell you how hard it is to look into the eyes the families of those little boys and girls who were killed in Sandy Hook, and tell them that almost four years later we've done nothing, nothing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: Now, yesterday there were negotiations happening behind the scenes led by the number two Senate Republican John Cornyn and Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein of California to find a deal on how to prevent some of these suspected terrorists from buying firearms while addressing the Republican concerns that the Democratic bill was far too broad and would actually sweep in a lot of people, Americans, innocent Americans who should not be on that terrorist watch list.

[08:05:017] But actually those talks seemed to have stalled. And despite Murphy's comments, the Senate has not officially announced any deals on votes at this point. There may be votes at some point, but it's very unlikely there will be any significant change to gun laws this year. And that's something, Chris, we have not seen in nearly a decade.

CUOMO: Well, and that's the cause for optimism here, because unfortunately, this feels familiar where we are now. The country grieving, the anger, the frustration kind of encapsulated in this desire for change. What are the realities now?

On the phone is the man who led the marathon filibuster, the senator from Connecticut, Chris Murphy. Senator, thank you for joining us. So why do you believe that you have more than optimism on your side this time, that you can actually get something done? And if so, what? MURPHY: Well, I think you have to be optimistic. I mean I've woken

up every day since that tragedy in Newtown believing that democracy doesn't allow for 90 percent of the American public to want us to move forward on something like common sense background checks or making sure that terrorists, those on the watch list can't get guns. It doesn't allow for the American public to want that to happen and for Congress to follow.

And so why I went down to the floor yesterday morning and held it for 15 hours is because we were coming off the worst shooting in American history, and there was no scheduled debate on the floor of the Senate to try to force some consensus on these issues.

Now, as Manu said in his report, we believe that we have a commitment to bring these two either this week or next week. And Dianne Feinstein has modified her proposal to address many of the Republican concerns. Maybe there will also be a deal between her and Senator Cornyn. But there was nothing that was going to happen in the United States Senate, there was no debate this week that was going to happen on guns in the wake of the worst mass shooting in American history until this filibuster began. And to many of us that was deeply, deeply offensive. To the extent that we forced that debate I do think that's progress. Not enough, but progress.

CUOMO: How do you deal with the fact that even the proposals that are in right now, in the air anyway, would not address the Orlando murder? This was not a man on the watch list or a no-fly list. What does that mean to you that even the best case scenarios don't stop what happened here?

MURPHY: Well, first of all, I don't think you can get caught in that trap, that you are forced to design a piece of legislation that would have definitively stopped the latest mass tragedy. The fact of the matter is that background checks wouldn't have stopped the murders in sandy hook, but the families there are fighting hard for it because they know that it would stop thousands of people from getting illegal guns in the streets of our country.

I would say that there is an open question as to whether the legislation that Senator Feinstein is proposing would have stopped this man from getting a weapon because it actually gives some broader discretions to the FBI to put on the list people who can't buy guns, individuals that they believe pose a risk to national security. And so there is some broader discretion allowed to the FBI that might have put this guy on a list of those prohibited from purchasing guns. I think Senator Feinstein believes that. But I don't think in general we can get caught in a trap whereby legislation is illegitimate if it wouldn't have stopped the tragedy that happened last. We have to start --

CUOMO: I hear you about that. I hear you about that. But you also have to remember what you're leveraging here. You're leveraging the pain and the emotion of this moment and the people who were related to the victims here, if they care about this, what they care about is specific to what they just endured, and you have a situation where the FBI didn't have the authority, the law does not seem as though it could be extended to give them that authority. So it is important for a leader like you to balance their expectations, to manage it. So what is your message to those who care about who was lost here in Orlando about why you can create change that will matter?

MURPHY: Well, I think you just looked at the families in Sandy Hook. Those families in the end became a force for changes in the gun laws that would have saved others' lives. And I believe that will be one of the things out of Orlando is these families are going to fight to change gun laws to make sure others around the country don't die because of our lack of firearms laws.

[08:10:00] So I understand what you're saying, that there's always a desire to find a solution to the last tragedy. But I think you will find that the families coming out of Orlando are going to be fighting for laws that will prevent a multitude of other gun tragedies around the country. There are 80 people dying every single day. There is the equivalent of an Orlando and a half every day in this country. And we can't accept that the only point of leverage that we have are these mass shootings. That was the point of our filibuster yesterday is that this is happening every day, and we have to use moments like we had yesterday to draw attention to this broader epidemic.

CUOMO: But the other side says two main things. One, you guys love to quote Chicago, the statistics coming out of Chicago. So many of those homicides are done with illegally obtained guns, and that any gun law functionally only punishes or monitors or limits those who want to do it legally.

And the other argument is, for all of the fascination with the AR weapon, the tactical rifle that was used here, there are a lot of semi-automatic rifles, there are a lot. And when you look at how many deaths this type of weapon is responsible for, it is not as big as these incidental tragedies make it to be. How do you address those two points?

MURPHY: Well, listen for people that make that argument, come to Sandy Hook and tell the families there that the impact of the AR-15 and those style weapons isn't meaningful. The fact is there are 20 dead kids in Newtown because a weapon of immense military power came into that school and killed every single child that it hit.

On the second question, there are a lot of illegal weapons on the streets. But they start as legal weapons. Many of those weapons in Chicago are bought legally in Indiana at gun shows where background checks are not necessary. Yes, then they get tracked illegally in the streets of that city, but they start as legal purchases done around a background check system that has holes as big as Swiss cheese in it.

So we have to remember that every illegal gun starts as a legal transfer and we can stop those initial transfers going into the hands of criminals if we tighten the criminal background check system and make sure it applies to all gun sales, not just those done as gun stores.

CUOMO: How do you balance the need to deal with the access to the weapon with the other huge ingredients and why all of these mass shootings happen? There are always three components, right? You have somebody who has attached themselves to an idea of hate and violence as a solution to what is in their head and their heart. You have system of mental health that often has broken down. And we're even hearing from investigators here, as clearly as this was a terroristic act, as it was a hate crime, they believe the more they learn about this, the more they see an instability that speaks to some type of illness either recognized or unrecognized. Those two components are almost always present as well. So how do you Baghdad the need to address why someone wants to pull the trigger with having the ability of having a trigger to pull?

MURPHY: I think that's exactly right. I said probably a dozen times on the floor over the 15 hours yesterday that this isn't just an issue about gun laws. In Orlando, this is an issue about gun laws, an issue about hate crime, this is an issue about the radicalization of an individual, and you've got to cover that entire gamut. What this does is none of that was proposed to be discussed in the United States Senate this week.

Let's just drill down for a minute on the issue of mental illness. It is true that mental illness is weaved into almost every storyline here. But there is no evidence that the United States has a higher level of mental illness than any other country, and yet we have a gun violence rate that is 20 times that of countries of similar wealth and population.

It suggests that there is something different about America other than the rate of mental illness. We have the same rate, we spend as much money on it, and yet in this country mental illness leads to violent gun crimes. That tells you that there is something about our gun laws or access to guns that is different here. We should fix the broken mental health system. I frankly have probably the most likely bill to do that in the United States Senate. But we should fix the mental health system because it is broken, not because we think that is going to be the panacea for gun crimes in this country.

CUOMO: An unusual number of guns and an unusual penchant for violence has certainly left us in the situation right that's over my shoulder today. Senator, thank you very much for coming on to make the case for change. Appreciate it.

MURPHY: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

CUOMO: All right, so what about the investigation? You've got the killer's phone, it's huge. Why haven't they gotten more information out of it? There was a lot of water on the ground for different reasons, and there was a biohazard involved with the phone as well because of all the blood from the murder. Sorry, but that's just the truth. So where are they with getting what's inside the phone? They could believe it could be the most important clue, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right, we have new developments. We have new concerns and we have new questions. So let's discuss. We have CNN's chief national correspondent, Jim Sciutto, with us again. We also have Juliette Kayyem, she is CNN national security analyst and also the author of "Security Mom" and also a former assistant secretary at the Department for Homeland Security.

We also have Paul Brinkmann. He is a senior business reporter at the "Orlando Sentinel." They've been doing great work on this story since jump. It is good to have you with us, Paul. Guys, as always.

Let's start with the developments. What is at the top of your list about what investigators are looking at right now and why it matters?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Two things, let's talk about the wife. As she has talked to investigators, she clearly knew more before this happened. Not specifically, but she knew or she suspected he was going to do something violent, not just in general, but on the very day of the attack when he left his house.

We also know that she traveled with him to the Pulse Nightclub, and at least once to buy ammunition. Whether that adds up to her having pre- knowledge, we don't know for sure, but the FBI is certainly investigation.

We also know more about his activities that night, the phone calls that he made from inside that club, but now also Facebook postings, checking to see if people were talking about it.

But also threatening, saying that there would be more attacks by the Islamic in the U.S., doing this all right after he killed so many people.

PAUL: Now Paul, your reporting yields that one, charges are not just a threat. They actually are suggesting that there will be charges here in this case. I want you to speak to that.

[08:20:04]And also, their concern to what Jim was just talking about that this is Ramadan. That there is a concern going forward. It used to be that you would have never contemplated doing anything unholy during a holy time. That's changed.

PAUL BRINKMANN, SENIOR BUSINESS REPORTER, "ORLANDO SENTINEL": So our team in Fort Pierce and spoke to authorities about the wife being charged that they were told, you know, that that will happen, or that it is likely to happen. Those were sources that they were quoting.

CUOMO: Sure.

BRINKMANN: So --

CUOMO: And saying charges that we are hearing, misprision, she knew about a federal crime and did nothing about it. Maybe conspiracy that she was in some of the preparatory actions with him. Is that still apparent?

BRINKMANN: Right. Well, sure those are all the things that they're looking at, right.

CUOMO: And the idea of continuing threats through Ramadan. Is this just awareness?

BRINKMANN: We've talked to a few other bars in the area, they've definitely been told that they are -- they do have extra security on hand. A lot of businesses in Orlando are looking at extra security now, and/or habit, concerned about it. They haven't told, at least through July 5th, the end of Ramadan, that she should be on guard.

CUOMO: The feds are giving them action reports also, you know, some intelligence, so they understand the landscape. That's unusual, but a copycat threat is real as well.

Now you were mentioning that he was online during this. That is a point of concern for you, obviously. Anybody using the internet for this type of end is a concern. But there is a letter from a senator to Facebook to help with information from accounts. It bothers you. Why?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, look, this is an ongoing investigation. We may think we know what we know. But there is going to be a lot more that's disclosed. Essentially the FBI is crowdsourcing, asking for information, there might be others involved.

So the head of the Senate Homeland Security Committee gets involved. He learns that there was Facebook posts during the incident and sends a letter to Facebook, and says you know, what are you going to do about Facebook live in terms of people posting nefarious or violent activities?

CUOMO: What's wrong with that?

KAYYEM: It's fine. We're in the middle of the largest terrorist having. Not even in the middle. We're four days out of the largest terrorist investigation in which we're trying to figure out what, you know, what motivated him and we are in also a huge, if you didn't notice, gun debate.

Sending a -- it is atypical for a senator to send a letter to the platform that is the focus of an investigation, Facebook in this case, or Facebook Live, to ask for information. Just let the FBI deal with this. We're four days out, right. We're four days out.

CUOMO: If they charge the wife, she then dummies up, right, she gets a lawyer and now only talking to the lawyer. What is the tactical situation there?

SCIUTTO: That's the issue here. You know, you use this as a threat frankly to get her to speak more, right. To make sure you're telling us everything you know, right. You can imagine yourself in the integration room. So you want the threat, but do you want to pull the trigger? Because once you do, of course, then you close off that line of information.

CUOMO: Paul, what are you seeing in the Orlando and surrounding communities about the reality of compassion and the reality of this becoming tighter and awareness of LGBTs and their situation? What are you seeing? How real is it?

BRINKMANN: I actually spent two days after the attack the LGBT Center on North Mills, where it was a good place to be in terms of gathering information and getting the word out.

I mean, first of all, about the hotlines and the "Go Fund Me" pages that were legitimate. But there was a huge convergence of the gay community groups that were there, and immediately like forced to communicate with each other in ways that they hadn't before possibly.

They've all sort of acknowledged that. And you know, there is no way that anybody is saying that this, you know, was a good thing in any way, but a silver lining or good things coming out of it, trying to make something --

CUOMO: There is no way to mitigate this tragedy. There is no good. It is all bad and yet there are things that are happening now that didn't happen before it. How do you reconcile those two?

BRINKMANN: I mean, I think it is the thing that is sort of difficult that people stumble over a little bit, where they're like, wow, this is great we're raising this money. Well, but it's horrible that we have to.

And but there are things happening in the community that people are getting support in ways they hadn't before. And you know, different groups that perhaps were somewhat fractured, especially for fundraising, coming together and talking about how it will be spent now, and how they're going to continue to work together.

CUOMO: I keep being reminded that Mia Angelo quote, that hate has caused so many of the world's problems that's never solved one and maybe if you have people coming together out of positivity, they can get something done that wasn't achievable before, who knows?

[08:25:10]Juliette, Paul, it's great to have you on the show. Jimmy, as always. All right, Alisyn, over to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris, we're going to continue talking about whether the worst mass shooting in U.S. history will force any change in gun laws or will Congress again offer prayers over actions.

We're going to ask two of the congressmen who walked out in protest during a moment of silence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MURPHY: Having come through the experience of Newton, I've had enough. It's been four years and nothing has been done. Despite the fact that 90 percent of the American public wants us to act.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Democratic Senator Chris Murphy, leading a nearly 15-hour filibuster to demand action on gun legislation. Did it work? Joining us now, Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut and Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. Congressmen, thank you so much for being here.

Congressman Himes, let's start there. Did the marathon filibuster work? Will it change anything?

REP. JIM HIMES (D), CONNECTICUT: Well, I think it worked in a -- certainly in a small way.