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New Day

Memorial Held for Victims of Orlando Shooting; Congress to Vote on Gun Control Measures; Gun Control Debated. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 20, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR, (D) MINNESOTA: And that is why they were there. They had the courage to do that, to put aside their personal belief that they would have done even more and say let's get this done. And that's what we're asking our colleagues to do today.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Saving lives is a simple goal. Amy Klobuchar, thank you very much.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: We're following a lot of news. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He talked about his pledges of allegiance to a terrorist group.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Transcripts of the killer's phone calls with police will be made public.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll limit these transcripts to avoid re- victimizing those who went through this horror.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had this proposal gone into effect, it may have stopped this shooting.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Within that club, if you had somebody with a gun strapped on to their hip, you would have had a very, very different result.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody wants terrorists with guns.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to have the courage in Washington to actually take action.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's the fight or flight response.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Colorado mom saves her five-year-old son from the jaws of a mountain lion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She came in and engaged and fought.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're humans but we're animal, and that kicks in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, my gosh.

SCIUTTO: How about that mom?

CAMEROTA: How about that? These two stories, the alligator in Florida and now the mom with the mountain lion, you just pray as a parent. This is not what you ever have to confront.

SCIUTTO: No question. Of course we would do anything for our kids and so happy for that family she was able to save him.

CAMEROTA: So we'll explain that happened. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, June 20th, 8:00 in the east. Chris is off this morning and Jim Sciutto joins me. It is great to have you here.

SCIUTTO: Great to be here.

CAMEROTA: All right, so we will soon hear what the Orlando terrorist told police as he carried out that massacre at a gay nightclub just one week ago. The FBI will release partial transcripts of three phone calls the killer made during the rampage along with a timeline of the attack.

SCIUTTO: This as tens of thousands of people are turning out for a candlelight vigil in Orlando to remember those 49 lives lost there. Will lawmakers in Congress do anything today to address yet another senseless tragedy? We have it all covered the way only CNN can. We're going to begin today with Polo Sandoval is live in Orlando with the latest. Polo tell us what's happening there today.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just moments ago, Jim, dozens of agents arriving here at the scene, getting ready to begin what is technically day eight of this investigation as we expect more details to be released by the feds. That includes those transcripts you mentioned. They will shed more light on the tense moments between the gunman and police the night of the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: This morning authorities set to release the killer's words. The FBI and local law enforcement will put out limited transcripts and a timeline of the Orlando killer's conversations with negotiators during the three-hour standoff.

LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The reason we're going to limit these transcripts is to avoid re-victimizing those who went through this horror.

SANDOVAL: Attorney General Loretta Lynch tells CNN the transcripts reveal details of three phone calls with the killer before he was shot dead by police. LYNCH: He talked about his pledges of allegiance to a terrorist

group. He talked about his motivations for why he was claiming, at that time, he was committing this horrific act. He talked about American policy in some ways. We're still exploring why he chose this particular place to attack.

SANDOVAL: This as police defend their tactics that morning as the killer carried out his rampage inside the popular gay nightclub in Orlando.

CAPTAIN MARK CANTY, ORLANDO SWAT COMMANDER: There was never a time where we were just sitting there doing nothing.

SANDOVAL: And 45 minutes after the first shots were fired more than 100 officers and SWAT members were on the scene, but they waited to engage the shooter as the calls for help grew louder inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was cursing for them to enter, enter the building.

SANDOVAL: Orlando SWAT commander insisting police mounted strategic efforts to stop the killer and rescue hostages before making the call at 5:00 a.m. to blow through the club's wall.

CANTY: I think a misconception is that officers did not go inside until 5:00 or whatever time the last breach was. Officers were going inside from the beginning of this incident.

SANDOVAL: Over the weekend several funerals and memorial services for the victims of the attack, more than 50,000 gathering in the city of Orlando to pay their respects at a candlelight vigil. Mourners in awe as a giant rainbow appeared over the memorial to remember the 49 lives senselessly taken one week ago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: And a live picture shows you dozens of FBI agents at the scene as they prepare to begin that day eight of this investigation. They will be going through that crime scene again, making sure they did not miss anything. In the meantime we do expect more potential developments in the days ahead regarding Noor Salman, the wife of the gunman, a grand jury weighing a lot of evidence here, trying to figure out and determine if, in fact, she had any idea that this attack was in the works. That, Jim, a lingering question that remains today, among many.

SCIUTTO: And she may face charges. Polo Sandoval in Orlando.

[08:05:01] In the wake of the Orlando massacre, hope for real change to America's gun laws, the Senate set to vote on four new gun measures today. But lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are conceding that nothing will change today. CNN Senior political reporter Manu Raju is live in Washington with more. Is this, Manu, going to be just a political exercise, these votes?

MANU RAJU, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: It really does seem that way. After last week's shooting top Republican John Cornyn of Texas and a leading Democrat Dianne Feinstein of California were discussing if they could strike a deal on preventing suspected terrorists from getting guns. But what we saw last week is those talks stalled. Democrats wanted a broad ban to ensure that folks on that terror watch list will never get guns while Republicans wanted some checks in the system, including giving the courts some say about whether or not a sale should be banned to a suspected terrorist.

So we ended up with something that we've seen all too common on Capitol Hill -- gridlock.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: The Senate set to vote today on four gun control measures one week after the worst mass shooting in U.S. history.

GOV. JOHN HICKENLOOPER, (D) COLORADO: I am frustrated, bewildered at the inability to come to terms with figuring out some of the restraints.

RAJU: The amendments all expected to fail.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY, (D) CONNECTICUT: The background checks bill is going to be tough to get 60 votes on. But we still have hope that we can get Republicans to support the bill stopping terrorists from getting weapons.

RAJU: These amendments include requiring tougher background checks on gun shows and online sales and barring terror suspects on watch lists from purchasing a firearm. Many Republicans say the Democratic plans violate the rights of Americans mistakenly placed on terror watch lists.

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS, (R) ALABAMA: These Republicans have voted consistently to ban people on that list from having a gun but to give them an opportunity to prove that they shouldn't be on the list.

RAJU: The NRA called the Democrats' gun measures political poise, diverting attention away from the failure of the government to fight terror.

WAYNE LAPIERRE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, NRA: They're coming and they're going to try to kill us. And we need to be prepared. And this president, by diverting the attention to gun control movement, that's not going to solve the problem.

RAJU: The NRA's choice for president, Donald Trump, is renewing his call to racially profile Muslims to prevent terror attacks.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think profiling is something that we're going to have to start thinking about a country. It's not the worst thing to do. I hate the concept of profiling, but we have to use common sense.

RAJU: Trump also reiterating his belief that fewer would have died inside the gay nightclub in Orlando had club goers been armed. TRUMP: One of the people in that room happened to have it and goes

boom, boom. You know what, that would have been a beautiful, beautiful sight, folks.

RAJU: But even the NRA take issue with that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think you should have firearms where people are drinking.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: And just a short time ago, Donald Trump tried to clarify his statement about people being armed in the Pulse Nightclub, tweeting "When I said that if within the Orlando club you had some people with guns I was obviously talking about additional guards or employees." So Alisyn, a bit of a walk back this morning from Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: Sounds like it, Manu. Thank you very much.

We're going to discuss all this with our panel, CNN political commentator and Democrat strategist Bob Beckel, CNN political analyst and host of "The David Gregory Show" podcast David Gregory, and Carl Higbie, spokesman for Trump's Great America PAC and a former NAVY Seal. Gentlemen, thanks to all of you for being here.

Bob, I'll start with you. There's general pessimism, it sounds like, about what might happen on Capitol Hill today even though there are these four competing gun measures to cut down on gun violence that Americans say they want. They say that these are reasonable measures. Do you think, Bob, that the NRA has that much pull and power that they can put the kibosh on all these measures today?

BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think they're got a lot of overrated influence. People have been scared for the NRA for too long. They're not as strong as they say they are. But these four amendments are not going to pass. We know that. There still is a possibility I think of finding a consensus. I know Feinstein and Cornyn, the negotiations broke down. But if you can't pass something after what happened in Orlando on terrorists not getting guns, then I don't think you'll ever get gun control laws.

CAMEROTA: David, what's your thinking about what will happen today?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I'm similarly pessimistic, but I agree with Bob for a couple of reasons. One, you have something that just makes common sense around keeping terrorists away from buying guns who are being investigated as being potential terrorists.

But you still have this due process issue, and that's where the rub is. Whether, you know, you run up against -- particularly advocates of gun rights who think that the idea of the government keeping lists on Americans is either an infringement in and of itself or a slippery slope to losing further rights. And that's a hump to get over. I think the process in the House is very difficult.

But the overall approach here is to say we're not going to go for background checks, we're not going to do big things. We're going to try to do more targeted kinds of restrictions that we can build consensus around. So I think that is the best approach.

[08:10:09] CAMEROTA: Carl, you have a special perspective because you're a former Navy Seal. When Donald Trump said --

CARL HIGBIE, SPOKESMAN FOR DONALD TRUMP'S "GREAT AMERICA PAC": Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- this weekend if only people in that club had had more weapons, those poor people wouldn't have been killed, do you think that people in clubs are as equipped to handle a military style weapon as you are?

HIGBIE: Well, I think the fact is that if you had security guards at that club --

CAMEROTA: And there was one. There was one. There was an armed security guard who couldn't find back, for whatever reason --

HIGBIE: Bullets in the other direction has always stopped criminals from being armed --

CAMEROTA: This time it wouldn't. Just answer that. There was an armed security guard there, and this time it didn't stop the gunman. The gunman was armed to the teeth. And the police showed up within minutes. And they, of course, were armed. This gunman had so much ammo --

HIGBIE: They showed up in minutes but it was three hours before they entered the club.

They're trying to blame guns for this whole thing right now. You don't blame Boeing for the planes hitting the tower. You don't blame spoons for people getting fat. A Harvard study was released in 2007 that said absolutely no evidence to the fact that gun laws will prevent gun violence. There's absolutely zero evidence. Harvard law.

CAMEROTA: Carl, hold on. Hold on.

HIGBIE: Let's stop blaming guns and start blaming the ideology.

CAMEROTA: Hold on one second. Carl, tell that to Australia. Australia passed a massive gun control law in 1996 after a mass shooting. They bought back hundreds of thousands of semiautomatic weapons and they haven't had a mass shooting since.

HIGBIE: And their violent crime rate has since risen.

CAMEROTA: They've not had a mass shooting. We're talking about stopping mass shootings, Carl.

And furthermore, I just want to say one more thing about this. Then I want to let the guests get in, because there was another terror attack at the same time this terror attack in Orlando was happening, Carl. There was a terror attack in Paris. A radical Islamist --

HIGBIE: Where guns are banned.

CAMEROTA: Yes, killed with a knife. Two people killed.

HIGBIE: Actually he shot them, too.

CAMEROTA: Two people, as opposed to somebody goes in with a semiautomatic rifle and can grievously injure 43. Do you think there's a difference?

HIGBIE: Well, I think look at the 130 people killed in Paris a couple of months ago. They banned guns there and they still went in and did it. Criminals are going to get guns no matter what. And to put a terrorist watch list together, what is the criteria to get on this terrorist watch list? When you can define that, then we can start talking about having a legitimate conversation about whether or not you should ban somebody from being able to buy a gun on that list.

CAMEROTA: OK, go ahead, Bob.

BECKEL: Carl, let me propose this. The FBI had conversations with this guy before he did the shooting. They let it go. But he was clearly on a watch of one kind or another and the FBI talked to him.

HIGBIE: Right.

BECKEL: Do you think that kind of person, who has a question about terrorist activity, should be able to go out and buy a gun legitimately?

HIGBIE: Well, I think that what we should do is we should look at the fact that the FBI's hands are tied behind their back and they're not allowed to investigate --

BECKEL: No, they did investigate this guy. Yet he was still able to locally buy --

HIGBIE: And they had to walk away.

BECKEL: -- a very dangerous weapon.

HIGBIE: If you're on a terrorist watch list, you should be in jail. I don't think you should be on a list. You should be in jail. If you're suspected and convicted and actually criminalized of conducting terrorist attacks or terrorist tendencies, you should be in jail, not a list.

CAMEROTA: Carl, isn't that a violation of someone's civil rights? Throw them in jail rather than just depriving them of access to guns?

HIGBIE: Both are right, so, Alisyn, where do you draw the line?

CAMEROTA: David, this is the debate happening in Washington. We're watching it on our screen and this is what's playing out on Capitol Hill right now.

GREGORY: I think, look, historically, you have seen a huge divide politically about this. I know the public opinion research shows and what the polls show around support for greater restrictions. But we have a political class here that is apparently hopelessly divided over this. I mean, you have in your guest here somebody who supports Donald Trump who is willing -- who is much more malleable on gun rights, as he has demonstrated on this particular occasion, and who is willing to do things that are either -- certainly counterproductive, certainly did not demonstrate that they work, like racial profiling or banning somebody based on their religion. But there is much more of a purity test around the Second Amendment.

So the reality is this is very much about a view that government is going to compile lists, is going to somehow either in the initial act or down the road restrict people's Second Amendment rights. I just don't see any kind of coalescing around a real strategy here. What you get I think goes back to where do you find a way to get smaller provisions through at the national level. And let's remember that at the state level there is more compromise going on, more --

BECKEL: But David -- I'm sorry, go ahead.

GREGORY: -- restrictions being put into place.

[08:15:00] CAMEROTA: OK, Bob, is that the answer?

BECKEL: Let me just say quickly that Donald Trump walked back his comments, which he's done over and over and over again. I agree with Nancy Pelosi. Donald Trump is the gift that keeps on giving for those of us on the other side.

At some point, this guy is not going to be able to dig himself out of the trench that he's in. I used to say to my candidates, when you get in a hole, give me the shovel. Apparently nobody can handle this shovel from Trump.

CAMEROTA: Yes, Bob, David, Carl, thank you very much for illuminating this debate for us.

We do have one quick programming note for you, Chris Cuomo will host a town hall with Libertarian Party, Gary Johnson, and his running mate, Bill Weld. What do they say the answer to gun violence is? This will be a prime time event Wednesday night at 9:00 pm Eastern right here on CNN.

SCIUTTO: Well, dangerous record-breaking heat is gripping the west. It's fueling massive wildfires in California including the Sherpa fire in Santa Barbara County.

The mercury hitting 120 degrees in parts of Arizona over the weekend. At least four deaths blamed on the heat. More extreme temperatures are expected today. The heat wave will head east this week.

CAMEROTA: Here's some baby news, the first photos of Hillary Clinton's new grandson have been posted online by the family, Aiden Clinton Mezvinsky entered the world Saturday morning.

Clinton and her daughter, Chelsea releasing these pictures late Sunday afternoon. Grandparents look the same everywhere, regardless whether they're world famous or not. She tweeted, "What a joy being with our new grandson, Aiden. So grateful."

SCIUTTO: Big smiles. Love the name Aiden, by the way.

CAMEROTA: It's pretty.

SCIUTTO: Colorado mom hailed as a hero after prying her 5-year-old son from the jaws of a mountain lion. The boy was playing outside with his brother in Aspen Friday. The mom heard screams, rushed out to find the mountain lion had the boy's whole head in its mouth.

The mom charged the animal, pried its jaws open and freed her son. Both are now recovering from bites and scratches. I mean, you got to imagine yourself in that moments, bravery, strength --

CAMEROTA: You hope you have that.

SCIUTTO: -- to pull it off.

CAMEROTA: I mean, you never know if you would freeze. Just what a -- you hope you're never confronted with this situation.

SCIUTTO: No question.

CAMEROTA: That is --

SCIUTTO: Happy that the kid got out of there safe.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. All right, well, they made it out of the Pulse Nightclub alive while some of their friends did not.

Up next, we ask two survivors how they feel about the release of the killer's calls to police today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:21:17]

SCIUTTO: In just hours, we're going to hear what the Orlando terrorist told police as he was carrying out his deadly attack at a gay nightclub in Orlando. How do survivors feel about the killer's words being made public?

We have now Brandon Wolf, who was at Pulse with his best friend, Christopher Leinonen, who was killed in the attack. Chris Hansen as well with us. He also survived and helped rescue people inside the club.

Brandon and Chris, thanks so much for joining us today. We know it's only a week out and you have a lot of pain to go through here. We appreciate you taking the time.

Brandon, I want to start with you and also get your thoughts, Chris. We've been speaking to lawmakers on the Hill this morning, Republicans and Democrats, House and the Senate. They say that despite all the talk, nothing is going to happen, none of these proposals, gun control measures are going to get passed. I just want to ask your reaction? Brandon, what do you think?

BRANDON WOLF, SURVIVED ORLANDO ATTACK, LOST FRIENDS: You know, I think they're right. That's kind of the political atmosphere we've been in for a long time, that it doesn't matter. These lives don't matter. The 49 lives simply don't matter enough to people on Capitol Hill to really make a change.

That's why it's up to us to make the change. It's up to us to be the activists for the change that we want to see. It's about spreading a message of love and compassion.

And if politicians can't hear us, then we need to speak louder. That's my reaction. I'm not surprised. I think politicians have kind of been the worst of these situations and it doesn't surprise me at all.

SCIUTTO: Chris, you were inside the club. You saved people. You saw what this weapon could do there. I mean, banning assault weapons, that's not even on the docket this week. That would be just two big a measure. They are talking about things short of that. But as you saw this play out, do you think it would make a difference if a weapon like that was banned?

CHRIS HANSEN, SURVIVED ORLANDO ATTACK, HELPED SAVE LIVES: Not necessarily saying that it would be banned, to pull it off the shelves. If it was only accessible to certain people, and with the background checks that are excessive with it to make it to where it's a lot more challenging and difficult to obtain a weapon of such mass destruction.

Now, guns can be used for many different things. Now they shouldn't be used for public hands. They shouldn't be able to go to a gun show and purchase one and then wait so long to have to go register it.

I don't think that should be anything at all anybody should be able to do if you are a non-officer or anybody who is licensed or trained to use a weapon of such. It shouldn't be in the public's hands. As -- Brandon, right?

WOLF: Right.

HANSEN: As Brandon was saying, we have to come together and use our voices and speak. I believe that when they say that the voters are the ones that are in charge of all of this, and if that's the case then we need to come together as a country and as a community to vote them out or to vote to change to happen. That's the only way for it to happen. If we truly are a voice and we are truly are heard, then things will change.

SCIUTTO: Brandon, you heard that the FBI is going to later today release the transcripts of the killer, of what he said -- some of what he said, at least. It will be edited a bit from inside that club. I wonder how you feel about that. We aren't going to hear the tape of his voice but we are going to have his words out there. Are you comfortable with that?

WOLF: You know, I don't know if I'm particularly comfortable with it. But I know what it's like, sitting with my best friend's mother. Just needing that closure. Needing to understand what happened in there, so that you know, you know, what did your child go through? What did they experience? What did they suffer?

[08:25:07]And if that brings some sort of peace to people, then absolutely, we need to have that. I don't know if I'll read it, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't bring that peace to somebody else. And I'm all for that. Whatever they need.

SCIUTTO: Chris, I want to ask your thoughts because there's always a concern after shootings like this. We know that this killer clearly wanted his massacre publicized. Even called a television station that night to make sure that they were covering it. Does it worry you that this gives him more attention for this horrible crime?

HANSEN: He was struggling with a lot of things mentally in his mind and -- not only gun control, but it also has to show that we need more people with those with mental illnesses and that we need to be able to be more aware of who is feeling what.

And with the shooter doing what he did, he was struggling with his sexuality and how he can -- as a person and who he was. And coming from somebody who used to be in the closet to coming out of closet was a whole lot different.

But for him to have to fight those demons and to do what he did, with the religion, it was based like maybe he will see the 49 virgins or however he does, did what he did. He sacrificed himself because he saw how much fun everybody was having and he didn't want to see us doing that anymore.

I felt like if he would have been able to seek help or guidance, maybe this would not have happened and he wouldn't have had to hide who he was. His wife knew about it and as a parent, your parents know.

My dad has known my whole life. When I came out, he was like, it's not surprising. So for him, it was just, I think, his scapegoat and his way of saying, you know, this is how it has to be. And it's like any bad relationship.

When they say if I can't have you, no one can, and that's kind of basically what he possibly may have thought in his head. And when he went in there, thinking he was going to go up there and start fireworks that he was actually going to get a lot of attention.

And with him always expressing that he hated the LGBT community and how it disgust him, that's usually how most homophobic people are. They always express themselves with hate.

If we go in this showing love and showing peace and showing that we're not going to fight back that it will change everybody's minds of how things work. So with the gun control, that is one issue. But also so is mental illness and also those who are not understanding of our thoughts and our minds of being open and being out, that they could also seek help for that as well.

Because it is challenging in our society to be a gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, and people fight the demons all the time. Like Alana Del Rey, "Gods and Monsters." You're living in a Garden of Eden but no one is going to take my soul and music is my voice.

So you know, it's just -- it's devastating how everything happened. And this was his way of saying bye, I believe, by taking other people. With this sacrifice, it kind of stinks, but I know it's going to change. It's going to bring a whole lot of change.

As a community, if we stick together -- and those who mourn afterwards. And when everybody goes home and they don't have that comfort that they're wanting or needing, they're going to need to seek more help.

So, this is -- this is something that's going to live with us forever and it's going to cause change and in a better way. Not in a negative way.

SCIUTTO: Well, let's hope for that change. Listen, Brandon and Chris, you've been through so much. We are thinking about you. We know the battle is just beginning for you. Thank you for taking the time this morning.

HANSEN: Thank you for having us.

CAMEROTA: Well, one Florida senator says his gun bill could have prevented the Orlando attack. What's in it? That senator joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)