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Sanders Talks Party Platform; Global Markets jolted by U.K. Vote; Officers Bring Down Man on Rampage. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired June 24, 2016 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The Democratic Party and he did. He vowed to take his fight to the convention, and he has. In fact, Sanders has refused to end the campaign and officially endorse Hillary Clinton because, he says, he needs to see what the platform is first.
Now, how is this going to play out for his party and in the election? Let's discuss the matter of the day, the Brexit vote and all the political implications with the senator.
Senator Sanders, it has been a pleasure to cover you for the duration of this.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you.
CUOMO: And we look forward doing it going forward.
First, let's deal with some specific political housecleaning, and then we'll get to Brexit and we'll get to the implications.
No endorsement of Hillary Clinton. Simply stated, when the day comes in November and Sanders has to cost his vote, to whom does it go?
SANDERS: In all likelihood it will go to Hillary Clinton.
CUOMO: When you say "in all likelihood," what percentage of margin of error is -
SANDERS: I don't want to parse words here. Here's where we are right now, Chris.
CUOMO: Please.
SANDERS: I want - I believe this country faces enormous crisis. I believe our politics and our economics are dominated by big money interests. I believe the Democratic Party has got to become the party of working people, prepared to stand up and take on those special interests. We are working right now as we speak with a - the Clinton campaign trying to see what kind of agreements we can work out. And, b, as we speak in St. Louis tonight, there is going to be a big debate about platform.
CUOMO: Right.
SANDERS: And we're going to try to make that platform as progressive as we can. Then we're going to Orlando, where the whole committee meets. We're going to offer a whole lot of amendments to make it progressive. So my job right now, as a candidate, is to fight to make sure that the Democratic Party not only has the most progressive platform in the history of the Democratic Party, but that that party - that platform is actually implemented by elected officials.
CUOMO: I get it. What do you have to have to be satisfied? What is the minimum requirement?
SANDERS: It's - I'm not - I can't say that. It doesn't work quite that way. But I need to hear Secretary Clinton making it clear - for example, just, I think what we have shown in this campaign is there is enormous support for making public colleges and universities tuition free. I think that is good public policy. I think it's good politics. I think it's what we should do.
CUOMO: She's talked about debt free -
SANDERS: I know.
CUOMO: Which I know is different than free.
SANDERS: But it's not only - it's - the devil is in the details, all right, but we need to hear - I would like to hear her say, yes, you know what, in America, when we talk about public education, it's no longer good enough to do up to 12th grade. It has to include public colleges and universities. I would like to see that. I would like to see her say, you know what, there's something wrong that we are the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all people as a right. And we should raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. And we need new trade policies. Those are some of the issues that I would like to hear her talk about.
CUOMO: All right, and, obviously, this is still political and it's still about leverage and -
SANDERS: Right.
CUOMO: It's very obvious what your leverage is. However, you also have to think about the implications of playing out the leverage. When you say, in all likelihood I would vote for Hillary Clinton -
SANDERS: Well -
CUOMO: Well, who else would you vote for?
SANDERS: Well, certainly - look, let me also be very clear, thank you for asking that, I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that Donald Trump is defeated.
CUOMO: So there's zero chance you vote for Donald Trump?
SANDERS: Oh, God, please.
CUOMO: How about Gary Johnson?
SANDERS: No. No. Look, I don't know Mr. Johnson, but I am (INAUDIBLE) - you know. But I am - I think -
CUOMO: Trump says that your supporters should be looking at him more than anybody else -
SANDERS: Well -
CUOMO: Because he's the closest to - in offering to what you did as anybody in the field.
SANDERS: Well, I think he - when he says that, he does not understand the people who have supported me. The people who have supported me are not going to vote for a bigot, somebody who has as the cornerstone of his campaign insulting Mexicans, and Latinos and Muslims, and women, and veterans, and African-Americans. That is not the candidate I believe the people who voted for me will - I'm going to do everything I can to defeat Trump.
But what a campaign is about, Chris, and I know you understand this, you know, this is not a basketball game where you're winning or losing. What I am fighting for now is to see a transformation of American politics so that we have a government. I know this sound rhetorical, but it's what many people want to see, a government which actually represents ordinary people, not just the billionaire class. That's the fight. And that means health care for all, raising the minimum wage to a living wage, making public colleges and universities tuition free, dealing with the crisis of climate change. I mean you've got a guy like Donald Trump who refuses even to recognize in reality of climate change, let alone come up with -
CUOMO: He did at his golf club, though, over in Scotland. They actually filed an application saying they needed certain remediation because of the effects of global warming.
SANDERS: Did he?
CUOMO: So I think sometimes it's about context.
What people on your side of the fence say, on the Democratic side say, we hear Senator Sanders. He has brought up the right issues. But if he doesn't get with Hillary soon, there's no chance of any of these things getting put into power, because they're not going to happen if Trump becomes president. So Sanders need to weigh how much he exercises his leverage and for how long.
[08:35:00] SANDERS: Well, what our campaign was about, and it succeed in doing, is bringing a whole lot of new people into the political process. People who previously did not vote. And I think that is a great benefit to the Democratic Party because, as you know, Democrats win when voter turnout is high. And I'm going to be very active in this campaign, Chris. I am going to be running all over this country. We have, in our movement, I gave a speech last Thursday and I said to people, we need you to get involved politically, run for school board, run for state legislature. Twenty thousand people responded. And we're going to be supporting people at every level of government, every level, to get involved and to stand up and fight for a better America.
CUOMO: Does the time come when you think you've put both arms around and give a big hug to Hillary Clinton?
SANDERS: Well, we'll see what happens. I mean, I can't answer that without hearing and seeing what Hillary Clinton is prepared to stand up and fight for.
CUOMO: Even though you know the ambivalence is damaging to her campaign?
SANDERS: Look, what I am trying to do now is, number one, to do everything I can to defeat Donald Trump. Number two, what I am trying to do is develop policies in this country which stand for working people. Now, you asked me, you know, I don't have the votes to become the Democratic nominee. You know that. I know that, right? We're good in arithmetic. But if we can force a situation where we make public colleges and universities tuition free, raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour, deal aggressively with climate change. You know what, I think I've run a winning campaign, and that's what I'm trying to do right now.
CUOMO: What's, you think, the chance you get it from the platform, from the party?
SANDERS: Well, we'll see. Literally, they're meeting tonight.
CUOMO: And then, I mean, look, you know, you know this, so I say it with all due difference, what if it's all in the party platform?
SANDERS: Right.
CUOMO: So what. What is the chance that those things get communicated into government action?
SANDERS: That is - that's a very fair question. You know, a platform is a piece of paper. It could be ignored the day after.
CUOMO: But shouldn't you be pushing more for your position in a Clinton administration, if that happens, than just the party platform?
SANDERS: Yes. Well, it's what we're doing too. Don't tell anybody, but -
CUOMO: By the way, your poker face is terrible, Senator Sanders. I want you to know that. The next things we're going to do together is play cards.
What do you think would be the ideal position for Sanders, no senator, just in case you believe that you don't want to be senator any more, you think you could serve better in another capacity, what are some of the ideas?
SANDERS: Well, what has always interested me is reinvigorating American democracy. I want a nation in which people are debating the real issues facing our country. I want to see this country have the highest level of voter turnout, not one of the lowest. I want to see people getting involved in all levels of public life. That's kind of reinvigorating the American democracy. CUOMO: Where - what is the government role in this?
SANDERS: Well, it's - it's very important.
CUOMO: But I'm saying, no position jumps to my mind that's in charge of that is what I'm saying.
SANDERS: Oh, you're asking me what kind of - well, I'm very happy as Vermont's senator.
CUOMO: So you would want to stay senator, period, end of -
SANDERS: No, I don't want to - who knows. But, you know, right now I am - I love my state and I'm very proud to be a senator from Vermont.
CUOMO: Do you think there's something you could have done differently that would have made you the nominee?
SANDERS: Well, it's - you know, I think at the end of the day, you would probably agree with me in saying that we did a lot better and went a lot further than most candidates (INAUDIBLE).
CUOMO: Absolutely.
SANDERS: So I think, by and large, we ran a great campaign. But, you know, as I look back, are there things that we could have done better? Are mistakes - were there mistakes that we made? Yes, there were.
CUOMO: Any regret when you're walking around up there in Vermont that, you know what, in issues, these are legitimate issues, I should have gone after Clinton more for the legitimate issues about whether it's e-mail or judgment about these different scandals that keep seeming to come up.
SANDERS: No, that one I really don't think twice about, because I think there is a profound disgust in this country for the kind of politics that says, you know, hey, I'm great, Chris Cuomo is terrible and awful, he's a miserable human being, vote for me.
CUOMO: Now all the Berners are going to come after me all day long. I'm going to play that as like a gif (ph). I hope you're happy.
SANDERS: OK.
But, you know, I don't think people want to hear that any more. What they really want to hear, and what I am proud of, they want - you know, you've heard me rant and rave about media.
CUOMO: Sure.
SANDERS: And the need for us not to be talking about how terrible somebody else is. Why is the middle class in America disappearing?
CUOMO: But when you look at Trump -
SANDERS: Chris, let me just - CUOMO: And you see that his success is almost purely a function of the kinds of tactics I'm saying that you avoided -
SANDERS: Right.
CUOMO: It doesn't make you think, well, maybe -
SANDERS: No.
CUOMO: That's what you needed to do in this campaign -
SANDERS: No.
CUOMO: To get into a position of power?
SANDERS: You mean you think I should have been sending out tweets attacking Hillary Clinton personally, and then CNN would have said, Bernie Sanders said today, Hillary Clinton is blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, if that's what it takes to win, I don't need that. What I want to talk about is the real issues, why the middle class is disappearing, income and wealth inequality, the need to have health care for all people, the need to have public colleges and universities tuition free, the need to deal with poverty. Do you hear many people talking about that, Chris?
[08:40:00] CUOMO: No.
SANDERS: All right. I think we should. Forty-seven million people living in poverty, highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country on earth. So my campaign is not, never will be based on terrible, personal attacks against somebody else. That's not who I am. It's not what I believe in.
CUOMO: Do you think that it will be important for you at some point to shore up that confidence that Clinton won the nomination fair and square? The idea of a rigged system. I get your concerns about the laws, and I don't think they're farfetched. But the system is what it is -
SANDERS: Right.
CUOMO: And there is an undercurrent on the Democratic side that, man, Bernie was boxed out here. You know, this was unfair. That doesn't help your nominee.
SANDERS: Right. No, I - I think the system has many, many flaws. But we knew what we were getting into. You and I just chatted. In New York state, for example, 3 million people who are not registered as Democrats or Republicans -
CUOMO: It's a closed primary.
SANDERS: It's a closed primary. I think that is absurd. I think the whole super delegate situation that we have right now is absurd. Did I know those rules and laws when I got into it? Sure I did. So I'm not saying that they changed the rules. No, they didn't. CUOMO: Brexit.
SANDERS: Yes.
CUOMO: Donald Trump happens to be in Scotland. He says take a look here. It's about to happen back home in the United States as well. Now, look, I know there's a lot of complexity and there's a lot of distinguishing and contrasting features from the European Union to what we're dealing with in the United States. But the fact that people are angry, they want to take it into their hands, they wants their country back, and a lot of it is about, they don't like who's coming into their country, immigration. Do you think there are parallels?
SANDERS: Well, by the way, if Donald Trump is in Scotland right now, he might want to take a look at their health care system, which is a very good one in Scotland, which is a national health care system which guarantees health care to all people as a right. So maybe he might want to take a look at that, rather than throwing millions of people off of health care, as he wants to do.
I think the issue of Brexit is an interesting one. If you look at the history of Europe in the 20th century, we see an unbelievable amount of bloodshed, World War I, World War II. And you had people coming together and said, we've got to overcome this. We have to have cooperation. We have to bring countries closer together. And that's a wonderful goal and which I certainly support.
On the other hand, in terms of the global economy, in Europe and in the United States, while it's great for CEOs to be running to China and making investments in China, they're forgetting about the millions of workers who lost their jobs. Middle class in this country, disappearing. Poverty, 47 million people. We cannot ignore the reality of so many people in this country who have been hurt by the global economy.
CUOMO: If what happens here is what happened there, that does seem to suggest that Donald Trump would win.
SANDERS: Donald Trump is not going to win. And he's not going to win because the American people will not elect somebody who is a bigot. And I would hope that Secretary Clinton begins to understand that she has got to stand up and take on the big money interests, whose greed is doing so much harm to our country, and make it clear to those low income people, those working people, that she is on their side.
CUOMO: How does Clinton, now I'm going to put you in a role that you've been reluctant to accept to this point, which is being the main Clinton surrogate, how does she beat Trump on big money when you look at her donor list and they're all the big banks and big law firm? When you look at the money that goes into the Clinton Global Initiative, there's a lot of big, bad countries that are represented there, timing questions aside about when they gave the money. Trump self-funneled, says, I don't need their money, I don't want it. Almost Bernie-esque in terms of how he deals with big money.
SANDERS: Well, Chris, I'll tell you what, when Hillary is here, you ask her.
CUOMO: No, no, no, no.
SANDERS: Oh, no, I'm not going to -
CUOMO: You said you're going to do everything you can to keep Donald Trump from being -
SANDERS: To defeat Trump.
CUOMO: Right.
SANDERS: To defeat Trump. But you asked -
CUOMO: Well, this is a main argument.
SANDERS: You're right. And it's, you know, it's an argument that will resonate with some people. And that's, you know, one of the problems. What I am trying to do right now with the Democratic Party is say, you've got a choice to make. You want money from Wall Street, you want money from corporate America, that's fine, but you're not going to be the party of working people. You've got to - you know, there's an old folk song, what do you -
CUOMO: They say the rules - oh, tell me the song first.
SANDERS: Which side are you on? Do you remember that?
CUOMO: Yes, I do.
SANDERS: You probably know that song. And I think the Democratic Party has got to make it clear, it is on the side of working people.
CUOMO: But they say the rules are what they are. You need money. They say this will be a billion dollar election. Trump gets all this media time because he says these outrageous and provocative things that get people going.
SANDERS: Yes.
CUOMO: The media - that resonates with media as well.
SANDERS: Yes.
CUOMO: We need to combat that with ads. That takes money. Don't handcuff me, Bernie, that's what they're going to say.
SANDERS: No, I don't - I mean I think if there's anything that we proved, Chris, in our campaign, is that's not quite accurate. What we ended up receiving is individual - we - 8 million individual campaign contributions averaging $27 from 2.5 million people. Many of them, by the way, working people and low income people. It blew me away the kind of support we received. So I think, if you are prepared to say to people, I am on your side, I need $50. You know what, those people will make that contribution CUOMO: Do you have confidence that you can make the case to the
Berners, those who feel the Bern, that the Democratic Party is the choice for them?
[08:45:07] SANDERS: That is a good question. That is a - and that -
CUOMO: That's the only kind I ask, senator. The questions -
SANDERS: Not always, Chris.
CUOMO: Oh, come on.
SANDERS: Don't flatter yourself here too much.
CUOMO: Somebody has to.
SANDERS: That is the question where - the question we're asking the Democratic Party right now. And we're getting two response. I can tell you that in some states that we've been in, the local leadership has been great. They have welcomed people in. They've been fair. And in other places they have said, hey, we really don't want the unwashed to come in. We don't want the young people. They're too loud. They're too aggressive. We don't want working people - look, we've got a good situation here. That is the debate of the moment. Will the Democratic Party open itself up to young people and working people and become a party of the middle class and working class, or will it continue to spend its time raising money from the wealthy and large corporations.
CUOMO: Help us pull the curtain back. Who is "they?" You know how sometimes in conversations, we'll, "they say," "they say," "they're giving us a hard time," "they have to make," who's "they"? Who should we be talking to about how they're going to come out on these decisions?
SANDERS: I think the chair of the Democratic Party, Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
CUOMO: How are those conversations going?
SANDERS: Not well. I think, you know, I think she is not the kind of leadership that the Democratic Party needs to welcome new people into the party.
CUOMO: So how do you get it done, what you're trying to get done, if you don't have a - you do not have the relationship you need to have with the person that makes a lot of the decisions? Do you want the Clinton campaign to override and should you be going to them directly more?
SANDERS: Well, we are talking to the Clinton campaign. But the bottom line is, the focus of what we are trying to do now is go to the grassroots. Right now, I'll be in Syracuse tonight supporting a progressive candidate running, Eric Kingston, who's running for the U.S. Congress.
CUOMO: Right. SANDERS: And I'll be doing that all over the country. And you know what, I'm going to go to states where somebody is running for state legislature who is a progressive. We're going to try to get people involved in the political process from the school board on up to the United States Congress.
CUOMO: How confident are you that Hillary Clinton can beat Donald Trump?
SANDERS: I think everything being equal, she should be able to beat him, because he is a very, very flawed candidate. And I think the American people, again, understand that you can't elect somebody to be president who does not even believe in the reality of climate change, who bases his campaign on bigotry, who wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the top two-tenths of 1 percent. Yes, I think she can beat him.
CUOMO: Senator Sanders, as somebody who had the privilege of talking to you when you laughed at me, the suggestion that you should run for president, I hope that you take satisfaction in how you changed this race.
SANDERS: Chris, that's very kind of you to say.
CUOMO: We look forward to talking to you going forward, senator.
SANDERS: Thank you
CUOMO: All right, Alisyn.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Are you taking credit for his campaign?
CUOMO: No, but I'll tell you what, in all fairness, the senator was on, and I said, if you're going to talk about all these issues, why don't you get in the race. And he was like ha-ha. Now look at you. You've got your own hashtag.
CAMEROTA: He's still laughing at you.
CUOMO: I know. I know.
CAMEROTA: All right, thanks so much, Chris.
The Brexit ripple effect on your retirement fund. We'll check global markets with Wall Street's opening bell fast approaching.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:52:16] CAMEROTA: Global markets plunging this morning by the U.K. vote to leave the European Union, including the U.S. futures market.
Let's bring in CNN's Money correspondent Alison Kosik from the New York Stock Exchange.
How's it looking, Alison. ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It is not looking good, Alisyn. We are seeing global markets in a tailspin from Asia overnight plunging anywhere from 4 to 7 percent, to markets trading now in Europe. Frankfort, London, Paris, we're seeing similar drops, anywhere from 4 to 7 percent.
And guess who's ready to join the party, if that's what you want to call it, the U.S. The opening bell in about 35, 40 minutes from now. Expect the Dow to drop 500 points at the opening bell. Why, well, there's just a lot of uncertainty as to what this Brexit will mean. What does it mean for U.S. companies? What does it mean for the U.S. economy?
So what are investors putting their money in? They're throwing it into gold. They're throwing it into U.S. Treasuries. Those are considered safe haven investments. And guess what that's doing? That money going into U.S. Treasuries is pushing interest rates even lower. By the way, mortgage rates are already at three year lows. Well, now you're going to see interest rates go even lower. So if you're looking for any glass half full here information, it's that mortgage rates are expected to go even lower because you're seeing investors rush toward Treasuries.
What does that mean for your 401(k), though? Oh, I'd say, buckle it up and get ready for a rougher ride today. I'd say don't look unless you've got a strong stomach.
Alisyn.
CUOMO: And as you pointed out earlier, Alison, you also have that imbalance with the pound and the dollar right now, so it's not a bad travel opportunity. But these are silver lining on what's going to be a bumpy ride.
Thank you to Alison Kosik.
All right, so tease now to what we're going to do next, which is a gunman on rampage. And that didn't scare away two officers who restored calm to a community. Now, this is the story in a special series that we're doing. This one is about two California cops who went what we call "Beyond the Call of Duty," next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:57:22] CAMEROTA: Officers rush to stop a man on a city wide rampage in California. CNN's Kyung Lah speaks with the two officers who went "Beyond the Call of Duty."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Officers rushed toward reports of gunfire. It is June 7, 2013, and Santa Monica, California, police are in the middle of a citywide rampage. First, a house on fire, two people dead inside. Then, random gunfire. A man with an AR- 15 style rifle shoots a woman in this car. He's on the move, spraying bullets into a city bus, injuring passengers. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suspect is in the library.
LAH: The library at Santa Monica College. Two people, shot in their SUV in a campus parking lot, another gunned down as the gunman walks into the building.
OFC. ROBERT SPARKS, SANTA MONICA POLICE DEPARTMENT: I ran towards the library.
LAH: Santa Monica Police Officer Robert Sparks was just eight blocks away. At noon, students and staff packed the library. You can see them scrambling. The gunman, slowly pacing. He's killed five people across this city already. His rifle, visible, as he methodically moves room to room.
SPARKS: I heard shots that sounded like a rifle.
LAH: As Officer Sparks runs to the front of the library, another Santa Monica cop arrives with Santa Monica College Police Captain Ray Bottenfield. Bottenfield, off duty, in regular clothes, only has a small handgun.
CAPTAIN RAY BOTTENFIELD, SANTA MONICA COLLEGE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We knew what we had to do.
SPARKS: I just said, let's go. All right, we're going to form up and we're going to find this guy. And they're standing with his back to us was the suspect. He turns and points his rifle at us. You see that he's wielding that gun one-handed, shooting at us, while getting shot at, and getting hit.
LAH (on camera): In your mind, are you thinking, this guy is shooting at me?
BOTTENFIELD: It's something that I wouldn't wish any officer would have to go through.
LAH: After you fire your weapon, what is that like as an officer?
SPARKS: It's hard. It's hard to know that you took that life. Whether it was, I mean, again, you can compartmentalize and say, I needed to, I had to to protect other lives.
LAH: You realize how many lives you've saved, both of you?
SPARKS: Yes, well, each and every one of those rounds could have been a fatal round.
BOTTENFIELD: I know without a doubt that we were supposed to be there and that we saved a lot of lives.
LAH (voice-over): Kyung Lah, CNN, Santa Monica, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CUOMO: Whoa. CAMEROTA: Wow, that is powerful to hear the aftermath for even police officers who are trained to do this and take that vow to do this, how hard it is.
CUOMO: Trained, but still human.
[09:00:01] CAMEROTA: Absolutely.
CUOMO: And they live and experience everything they go through in way that we can't imagine.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
Well, our breaking coverage of the Brexit vote will continue right now on "Newsroom" with John Berman, who is in for Carol Costello.
Good morning, John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, thanks so much, guys.
