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House GOP To Release Benghazi Report Today; Trump Changes Tone On Muslim Ban; Millions of Americans Drinking Water from Systems that are Violating Rules. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 28, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] PATRICK HEALY, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": They're going to vote their feelings.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Right.

HEALY: A lot of them are going to say Donald Trump is talking about this, and then the next day, Wednesday, the day after Election Day, are people going to be sitting up and saying oh, we want a do-over? Now we want a --

CUOMO: But there's one fundamental difference, dynamically. I think you're right. I think that there is a strong analogy principle here, certainly the promise without a plan concern -- which is a big part of the negative fallout with Brexit right now is that they have these new leaders who aren't in there yet, not established with their own teams, figuring out how to put --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Right, and David Cameron -- like, I don't know how he could argue for this.

CUOMO: And he's on the way out, so they have a lot of systemic problems that they're going to have to deal with. But there's a fundamental difference. That vote there was a lot of white men. That is not going to be the same kind of vote here. You're going to have people included in the process here that were the target of the process there. How can that chance the dynamic?

HEALY: Well listen, in our key electoral college states it's going to be looking a lot like London, you know, which was very much the remain vote --

CUOMO: The remain.

HEALY: -- then it is -- then it's going to be looking like, you know, up in the provinces of Northern England. You're going to have in Ohio, in Pennsylvania, in Michigan, Florida where this is going to come down to, an incredibly different demographic in terms of what the electorate is going to look like.

And also, I think Hillary Clinton is going to have four months -- she's going to have three very widely-watched debates where she's going to try to like pin down Donald Trump on this. So she's going to be able to say to voters, she hopes, don't vote with your feelings. Don't see this election as just a relief valve. ALI VELSHI, GLOBAL AFFAIRS & ECONOMIC ANALYST: It's never a great selling point.

CUOMO: That's like a big bucket of cold water on the voter's head.

VELSHI: That's right. And remember, the one audience that Donald Trump talks to very effectively is the 55-year-old white man who was 40 years old 15 years ago --

HEALY: Where he is today.

VELSHI: -- when he -- exactly. When he was 40, just before inflation, he's not better off. He's not a block. There's no movement for him. No one's calling for him to use whatever bathroom he wants to use.

CUOMO: And he feels --

VELSHI: There's no middle-aged white guy's lives matter movement. There's no middle-aged white guy's marriage movement. There's nothing for him and Donald Trump still speaks to him. So don't vote for your feelings -- I hear you -- but there are a whole bunch of people whose feelings have been activated and putting them in a box is going to be tough.

HEALY: You're absolutely right. But, I mean, Hillary Clinton's motto is "Stronger Together". David Cameron's was "Stronger" and they're sort of appealing to this idea that no matter how you feel, see the long -- you know, see the big picture. See the long game. It is a very hard sell.

VELSHI: I feel I should consume fewer calories, but I never do.

CAMEROTA: Understood, good analogy. Ali, Patrick, thank you guys. Thanks so much for being here. Let's get over to Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Yes, I'm in the same boat, Ali. I'm in the same, same boat. It's the red meat that some Republicans have been savoring for years. The House Select Committee on Benghazi releasing its report today. Question, how will team Trump respond? A former adviser to Trump joins us next.

[07:32:50]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:36:00] CUOMO: All right, campaigns are often about reactions to big events, right? You had the Brexit, now you have the Benghazi report that came out. Two of them, actually -- well, there are actually three, if you want to think about it. You have the GOP report, you have the Democratic response, and then you have these side reports written by GOP reps who believe the main report didn't go far enough.

So, let's talk about the implication of all of these with former Trump campaign adviser, Michael Caputo. Michael, good to have you on the show.

MICHAEL CAPUTO, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Thanks for having me.

CUOMO: The goal, as we were just saying before we started this segment, was people died in Benghazi. Let's find out why, let's hold people accountable if need be, and let's figure out how to do it better the next time. Do you believe that was achieved by all of these committees, and hearing, and hours, and money?

CAPUTO: I think just from the 200 pages that CNN already has we know that a lot has been determined by this committee. We're going to see another 600-plus pages of that and I think that we've gotten a lot of information that wasn't out there before. A lot of people were interviewed who hadn't been interviewed and especially Hillary Clinton, who spent a good deal of hours there in front of the committee being forthright.

I think a lot came out of this report. I think we're going to find out more and this will become an issue again, I think, through the Republican -- I'm sorry, through the presidential election.

CUOMO: An issue, why and how? What do you think matters and should be discussed about this?

CAPUTO: I think the dishonesty that came about when the attack happened, initially being blamed on a video and Clinton and Obama and their kings.

CUOMO: You don't think it was different intel? You think it was changing narratives for political purpose?

CAPUTO: Absolutely, and I think the -- I think the report will point to that. Everyone now knows that Hillary Clinton knew it was absolutely an act of terrorism immediately thereafter, yet she still talked about it being about a video. Even told the parents of those who were killed that it was about a video. That is not going to sit well with the American people.

CUOMO: All right, so we're going to have that issue that looms. We'll have to see what comes out in these reports -- the there, there and how it plays. Now you have another looming issue. The Muslim ban, right? There's no question that this worked well for you guys early on but you were pitching to a very narrow slice, even within your own party. Now we see the broader that Trump wants to go, the more he seems to modify this position. Can he do that without getting caught?

CAPUTO: Oh, I think so. We're talking about a presidential candidate that's never been involved in politics before so he doesn't have 20 years of being steeped deeply in foreign policy or immigration policy, for that matter. I think that the initial statement after the attack in California was one that reflected a lot of American's opinions on things.

But as we've come to know more about the situation -- as Donald Trump has learned more about how things are going forward and how Syrian refugees, for example, are really not vetted because they don't have any documents, we're seeing more and more issues that point to the fact that this is more about Sharia than it is about being Muslim.

CUOMO: But a few things, right? And the way you explain the answer kind of defines what the issue here is, also. First of all, he said Muslim ban a long time before Orlando. He's been modifying it as he tries to appeal to broader and broader bases where people don't reflectively want to dismiss an entire religion as evil --

CAPUTO: Right.

CUOMO: -- so, he's changing. The idea of well, let's still be afraid about how we vet. You know, Michael, that nobody's vetted the way refugees is in our system. Is it perfect? Nothing is perfect anywhere that man touches. We both know that.

But, the idea that Syrians can't be vetted, they don't have documents. You know that's not true. They have lots of documents. Do they have full do dossiers that you'd want? No, but nobody does. Do you think that has to stop -- the deception of refugees that it wants to worry about? Nobody's vetted more than refugees coming into this country.

CAPUTO: I think that speaks more about how poorly vetted others are than it does to how well-vetted refugees are.

CUOMO: But if you want to scare me, scare me with the scary stuff. Don't make somebody scared.

CAPUTO: All you have to do is listen to the head of the CIA who says we don't know who many of these people are.

CUOMO: The head of the FBI, James Comey, talked about it. He said I can't properly vet all of these people coming in. But that's true about all the different groups so you'd have to shut down the entire system, but that's a little bit in the weeds. What I'm saying is this evolution -- I don't think that's the right word.

CAPUTO: Right.

[07:40:00] CUOMO: Evolving means that you're growing and changing in some way that adapts better to the cause (ph). I think this is all about oh, this is not going to work for us. You can't say that all Muslims are bad. There are too many people in this country who don't agree with that.

America's about its diversity and strength. It always has, so we can't dismiss people who are part of the stew here. That's what's going on. Why doesn't he just own it and say you know what, I was wrong? I'm not a politician, like Caputo said.

CAPUTO: Any presidential candidate is a reflection of the advisers they have around them. That's why people pay so much attention to who you're going to pick.

CUOMO: Were you telling him to bash Muslims? CAPUTO: Well, I wasn't there doing that but others may have been. And, in fact, right now there's a different set of advisers around Donald Trump and they're letting him know a little bit more about the subtleties of this and many other issues. And I think this is reflective of what Donald Trump is saying publicly now.

An event, as well -- as we come closer to the election we see the recent terror attack in Orlando. These things are being refined more and more for Mr. Trump and more and more senior advisers are coming around him where the subtleties of these policies are coming more into light and you'll see a more coherent policy going forward.

CUOMO: But, whether it's Clinton or Trump, at the end of the day you're not going to hire or elect their advisers. You're electing them and their core, right?

CAPUTO: You're absolutely true. You're not electing the vice president, right?

CUOMO: You don't come out of the box and say I feel a certain way about Muslims and then just change over time. It's either a core belief or it isn't. Pocahontas with Warren, that played well to the haters. You know what I mean? That played well to people who don't care --

CAPUTO: What do you mean by haters?

CUOMO: Well, the people that he was saying that to who would stand up and applaud.

CAPUTO: You mean Republicans and --

CUOMO: No, I don't see -- becauseI don't think it's fair to blame the whole party like that. It's not right. You guys were pitching messages to select aspects of that party, OK? I married into a Republican family. I love Republicans, I understand that both parties can be the same. It depends on the issue. But, when you say Warren is Pocahontas there's only -- you say that around me you're going to have a problem, right, because you shouldn't insult people that way on several levels.

CAPUTO: When insulting --

CUOMO: Elizabeth Warren.

CAPUTO: Well, I mean she, as you know --

CUOMO: You call her Pocahontas.

CAPUTO: -- she claimed to be Native American, but she's not.

CUOMO: You know, if you call me -- if you've made references about the Godfather to me, how do you think the conversation's going to go?

CAPUTO: Or me, or me.

CUOMO: Not very well, right?

CAPUTO: But she's not of Indian heritage at all.

CUOMO: She says she is.

CAPUTO: Well, there's no proof of that. In fact --

CUOMO: But even if you don't believe she is --

CAPUTO: -- she refused to try to prove it.

CUOMO: Even if she believes that she is -- first of all, that's a side --

CAPUTO: She self-identifies as an American Indian.

CUOMO: No, she doesn't self-identify. She says that she has it in her -- now you have Scott Brown, for you guys, saying that she should have a DNA test. That's for people to decide whether they want the election --

CAPUTO: He said that as an aside in response to a question.

CUOMO: That wasn't an aside, but it was a long thing. He'd obviously thought about it or somebody had thought about it for him. We both know that. That's OK, that's the state of play. We'll let the voters decide. However, Trump is not calling her Pocahontas now. He's going after her the same way about her lineage but not calling her Pocahontas. Is that a sign that he's learning I can't just insult my way out of a situation? Too many Americans won't allow that.

CAPUTO: I think there are a lot of ways to question Elizabeth Warren's credibility.

CUOMO: Yes, sure.

CAPUTO: Certainly that's one of them. I think, like I said, more and more advisers are coming around Donald Trump who see a little bit clearer what's acceptable into the general election. And I'm sure you're going to hear Pocahontas again. There's no question in my mind you will because, in fact, it does resonate her lack of credibility in one word and that's something that works with the electorate. It works with some better than others, but you'll see more andmore questions about her credibility as she comes out punching at Donald Trump.

CUOMO: Michael Caputo, appreciate you making the case, as always.

CAPUTO: Thank you.

CUOMO: Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Chris. It's tough to imagine what it was like to spend hours holed up inside one of the bathrooms at the gay nightclub in Orlando -- Pulse nightclub -- as a terrorist killed dozens. Well, up next we speak with a survivor who lived through that horror and talk to him about police efforts to rescue hostages.

[07:43:40]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:47:00] CAMEROTA: This morning we are learning new horrifying details about the terror attack inside that gay nightclub in Orlando. This new information raises troubling questions about why the attack lasted more than three hours.

Joining us now is "Wall Street Journal" reporter Laura Stevens, who has just written a comprehensive piece on what happened minute-by- minute, and Miguel Leiva, who survived the attack by hiding in the bathroom. We're happy to have both of you here this morning.

Laura, I want to start with you because three hours and six minutes passed between the time the police arrived and first entered the Pulse nightclub and the time that the gunman was killed. What was happening during that time?

LAURA STEVENS, REPORTER, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Right. Well so, as we know, the police arrived at about 2:08. At that point they entered the building and they said that they exchanged gunfire with the suspect, and at some point he ended up back in the bathrooms.

Now, between 2:08 and 2:18 the police were in the building and they didn't have him cornered and shots didn't stop until 2:18. So, we talked to people who were in the bathrooms. They say that around 2:14-2:15 they were shot at again. So while the police are in the building the shooter was definitely active.

CAMEROTA: Miguel, you were one of the people in the bathroom while this was all happening. Can you tell us what those three hours were like?

MIGUEL LEIVA, SURVIVOR OF PULSE TERROR ATTACK: It was agonizing just -- what I remember was just people everywhere. It was just so crowded and hot and we were just trying to stay calm and try not to make any noise so he wouldn't come back in there.

CAMEROTA: And Miguel, I mean, he was -- I know that you've seen unimaginable, unthinkable things for the rest of us because the gunman did shoot people near you and next to you during that time. Did you know that police were there on the premises while that was happening?

LEIVA: No, we didn't know that -- we knew they were on the outside, we didn't know they were inside the club. Initially, we didn't want to come out of the bathroom because we didn't know if he had any police radios or police scanners and maybe trying to fool us to go back out, so we just all stayed in the bathroom.

CAMEROTA: What was he telling you while this was happening?

LEIVA: He didn't say anything. He would just come into the bathroom and laugh and then start shooting. And then we could just hear him laughing, walking around the club shooting. CAMEROTA: Miguel, the police have basically said that at 2:18 they had him cornered in one of the bathrooms. There was a woman's bathroom and a men's bathroom and people were hiding in both and by 2:18, they felt that the gunman was cornered.

But, they didn't realize initially that there were two dozen people also in the bathrooms, trapped there with him, who had become hostages. Miguel, you were one of those people. What do you think would have happened if the police had rushed into one of those bathrooms?

[07:50:00] LEIVA: I believe more people would have died. In the position he was at and the way he was positioned waiting for police to enter the building, more people would have died, including police.

CAMEROTA: And, Laura, that's what police have told you, as well. How did they justify the fact that they didn't rush into the bathrooms for those three hours?

STEVENS: Right. This was a very difficult decision and what they've said is that they were able to rescue dozens and dozens of people from the club during that time period, so they were able to go into the main dance floor, pull people out who were still alive, take their times.

Make sure that they got everybody out that they could before they ended up at about 5:02 blowing through the back walls of the building, starting to pull out people like Miguel and other survivors. And then, eventually engaging the shooter at about 5:14. He shot three more times before they engaged with him and then they called out at 5:15 that he was down.

CAMEROTA: Miguel, we can only imagine what this experience was like for you, to be there in the bathroom while he was shooting, while he was laughing. What were you doing? How were you keeping yourself sane while you were watching all of this around you?

LEIVA: Like I said before, I didn't feel -- I didn't feel any fear, I didn't feel any -- it was just all slow motion and just watching everything around me was just all very slow. And I was just trying to gather around and consume in it and try to figure out how are we going to get out of here, how can we get in contact with authorities to let them know that we're in here because we can hear the police pulling people out but we could not --

We could not speak to them nor tell them we're in here, we're in here because we didn't know if the shooter was going to come back in for a fourth time. He had already come in twice when we heard police, so it was kind of hard. You know help is right around -- literally around the corner but you can't yell or anything because he was right there in the hallway.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LEIVA: So anybody who would come out that hallway would be meeting with him right in that hallway and he would just do whatever he wanted.

CAMEROTA: Miguel, we're so sorry that you endured this and everything that you had to see. And we really appreciate you sharing your thoughts that the police did the right thing and couldn't have done anything differently that night in terms of getting into those bathrooms sooner. Miguel and Laura, thank you very much. The piece is in "The Wall Street Journal" and Irecommended that everybody read it about what happened there that night. Thank you both for being here.

STEVENS: Thanks.

LEIVA: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get to Chris.

CUOMO: A good reminder that for the rest of us life goes on, but for people who were there and their loved ones that night was just the beginning of a journey of their healing. And we're going to have to remember that and stay in touch with that story and the implications.

Another story that falls into that category is what happened in Flint, Michigan. That was something that's still affecting people. We're going to see it for a generation or more. One of the questions that needs to be answered is how many other Flints are there in this country? A CNN exclusive on the safety of the water that you do not want to miss, next.

[07:53:52]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:56:25] BLACKWELL: Question for you. Do you know what is in your drinking water? Now, you may be surprised to find that we found that millions of Americans are drinking water from systems violating rules and this is no secret to the government.

CNN's Sara Ganim joins now with her exclusive report. This, I'm sure, will shock some people.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, Flint, Michigan and that water crisis really opened our eyes to this invisible problem that underground, underneath our homes, in our walls there are lead pipes that are carrying our drinking water. And many people across America believe that the federal government was making sure that it was safe -- that we were kept safe, and what we found is that they're not.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: More than 18 million Americans are getting their drinking water from systems that have violated federal lead rules. Not only does the EPA know about it, they've done almost nothing to enforce their own regulations according to multiple industry experts.

ERIK OLSON, NATIONAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: I think that the public needs to be told the truth about contamination in their water supply.

GANIM: More than 5,000 water systems are in violation, including failure to properly test water, failure to report contamination, and failure to treat water properly, according to a new analysis by the Natural Resources Defense Council, or NRDC.

In nine out of 10 cases, the EPA took no enforcement action when water systems violated the lead and copper rule, the federal regulation meant to keep America's tap water safe from lead.

OLSON: Imagine a cop sitting, watching people run stop signs and speed at 90 miles an hour through small communities, and doing absolutely nothing about it. That's, unfortunately, what we have now.

GANIM: Eric Olson is among the experts saying water utilities are routinely gaming the system, using incorrect testing methods to avoid detecting high levels of lead. What that means is that there are even more water systems with lead issues that aren't officially in violation.

OLSON: They don't care if they're violating the law. They don't feel like they're going to face any penalties.

GANIM: Philadelphia is one city accused of gaming the system. In 2014, city officials sent residents questionable instructions for testing, telling them to pre-flush their water and remove aerators, which often trap particles of lead. Experts say both techniques would make lead levels appear lower than they actually are. In fact, the EPA instructed, as far back as 2007, that they should not remove or clean aerators.

JONATHAN KING: I was concerned. I wanted to test my home's water.

GANIM: Jonathan King's 18-month-old daughter has been drinking Philadelphia's water from the tap since she was born. He's organizing a group of homeowners to get independent answers because he doesn't trust the way the city conducted its testing.

CAIN: It concerns me that they're not using the best practices available. It concerns me that they're not following the latest EPA regulations.

GANIM: So, why doesn't the EPA enforce its own rules? Multiple sources and industry experts tell CNN it comes down to two key reasons. Water isn't a main priority for the EPA because its resources are stretched thin, and the EPA has a cozy relationship with the water systems it's supposed to regulate.

OLSON: They're friends, they hang out with each other, they ask for each other's advice, and you get close after a while.

GANIM: So, should citizens be worried?

ALAN MORRISSEY, EPA WATER DEPARTMENT ENFORCEMENT OFFICER (RET.): Citizens should be very concerned. GANIM: When Alan Morrissey retired last year from his job as an EPA water department enforcement officer, he said he was frustrated because blatant violations would go without punishment. Morrissey says even EPA employees don't trust what comes out of their tap.