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Clinton Flips on Trade Deal; Pope Says Gays Deserve Apology from the Church; Worst Two Days in Stock Market; U.K. In Damage Control. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired June 28, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] REP. XAVIER BECERRA (D), CALIFORNIA: She has then since had an opportunity to review the TPP now as negotiated and signed by the different parties. And what she has said is that it is not what she thought it could be. And so I don't think there's any problem. You don't make decisions based on a half cooked product. You wait until you see the final product before you make your final call. And she has made it very, very clear why she is not - not for this TPP. She's for trade, as most of us are for trade, but you have to have a good trade bill that doesn't allow the cheaters to take advantage of American workers and companies.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Congress Becerra, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY. Nice to talk to you.

BECERRA: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Pope Francis making ground breaking comments about gays. Question, are conservative Catholics on board? We'll put that to the head of The Catholic League, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: You should, if you are a Catholic, ask for forgiveness from gays, from the poor, from those who get weapons in their hands and others who, because of the church's inaction or action, have gotten to where they are today. That comes from Pope Francis. Ask for forgiveness from gays for how you judge them and mistreat them. But not everybody in the Catholic Church is going along with the leader of the church.

[08:35:13] Let's discuss with Bill Donohue. He is the president of The Catholic League.

Always good to have you make the case on NEW DAY.

BILL DONOHUE, PRESIDENT, THE CATHOLIC LEAGUE: Thank you so much.

CUOMO: Do you feel like apologizing to the LGBT community?

DONOHUE: No. Now, as a matter of fact, I want an apology from gays. I've been assaulted by gays. I've never assaulted a gay person in my entire life. CUOMO: You blame all gays for any of the -

DONOHUE: No. I blame the people who - who are at a parade, a protest parade, who watched me be assaulted by lesbians.

CUOMO: So -

DONOHUE: So - so why - see - see - in the - and the other thing is this. I want to correct something because CNN is factually wrong.

CUOMO: How so?

DONOHUE: As of today - and so is today's "New York Times."

CUOMO: How so?

DONOHUE: Because they said that the pope said the church said that we have to apologize. He said Christians. He said, this is a direct quote on the plane with Sydney Wooden (ph), he said, "the church is holy and we are sinners." Christians are sinners. Now, if a Catholic or a Protestant and Jew or Muslim has offended a gay person or anybody, of course they should apologize. But the idea of a blanket apology because you're a member of some demographic group, I mean, I don't know, what church teaching is it that you have a problem with that maybe the church should apologize for it?

CUOMO: Well, one, it's refreshing to hear you refer to LGBT as a demographic group. Often you only see gays as the behaviors, if it wasn't who they are, it's what they do. But just to be accurate, "I believe that the Church not only should apologize, like that Marxist Cardinal said," and then he laughs, and "not only should apologize to this person who is gay whom it has offended, but has to apologize to the poor, to exploited women, to children exploited for labor, it has to ask forgiveness for having blessed many weapons." That's what the pope said.

Let's discuss why you are resistant to it? You're not going to win on the language. But it's your resistance to the idea -

DONOHUE: Well, he didn't - well, I say, he said the church is holy and we are sinners. He - that's in there. He made it very clear. He's not talking about the church's teaching.

CUOMO: He said the church should apologize. It's not about the teaching. See, that's why I brought you here today and I'm happy you took the opportunity. Love, mercy, that's what Pope Francis says. He doesn't say that the rules have changed. He says that your intentions should change. That Bill Donohue, as the head of The Catholic League, should be out there fighting for the poor, should be fighting for things that are good and not spending so much time fighting to keep gays from getting married.

DONOHUE: I - I - I spent time in Spanish Harlem (ph) making the illiterate literate. I've worked with the black community more than white - most white people. I've taught black history. I've been in the ghetto. I've worked with the poor. I support vouchers. I support the kinds of things that allow non-white kids in the inner city to go to Catholic school and get good education.

CUOMO: Then why do you spend so much energy on this? Why is it so important to you to denounce gays?

DONOHUE: How - what energy am I spending on it?

CUOMO: What do you mean? How many times have you been on this show to talk about exactly this. You have come on -

DONOHUE: Because you asked me to come on and ask me about it. If you want to - if you want me to -

CUOMO: Bill, you have never asked to come on this show for anything else. You've never said I want to talk about vouchers. I want to talk about poverty.

DONOHUE: I - I - I don't make the phone calls. Your producers call me. Now, if you want to have a conversation about poverty and why the people championing the poor are the biggest enemy of the poor, they're the ones that put their heel in the face of the poor. It's namely the liberal establishment which is anti-poor. If you want to have me on, have your producers call me to talk about that. But your producers only want to talk about LGBT. And, don't forget, the Q. The Q. The Q is questioning.

CUOMO: You could say - you could -

DONOHUE: What your questioning -

CUOMO: I know what the Q is.

DONOHUE: What are they questioning? I thought this was fixed.

CUOMO: But what do you care?

DONOHUE: I do care. I want to know. What is the Q? I want to be educated.

CUOMO: Well, no, you don't want to be educated. You want to judge.

DONOHUE: Yes. What is the Q?

CUOMO: And the pope is telling you don't judge. That's what he's saying.

DONOHUE: Don't forget the Q. Don't forget the Q.

CUOMO: I don't forget the Q.

DONOHUE: OK.

CUOMO: But I don't forget any of it. You know why?

DONOHUE: All right, why?

CUOMO: Because it's not for me to judge it. DONOHUE: What -

CUOMO: If people are something, if this is how they identify, if this is who they are, then that's their deal.

DONOHUE: I spent four years in the United States Air Force. There were gay guys in the Air Force. I was the one who intervened with some guys who were bullying gays, because I don't care what gay people do, all right? I don't want to have a lifestyle thrust in my face, though. That's a different kind of thing all together. But if -

CUOMO: What do you mean?

DONOHUE: If two people love each other and they're of the same sex, it's none of my business.

CUOMO: What do you mean thrust in - you're absolutely right, but you're not - how's it being thrust in your face?

DONOHUE: I don't think that -

CUOMO: How are they putting their gay on you?

DONOHUE: I don't think that a photographer, for example, a baker, should be allowed to discriminate against a gay and say, I'm not going to take your picture, I'm not going to - I'm not going to bake you a cake. If you asked that person at a wedding ceremony to celebrate a ceremony which you feel is viscerally you're opposed to, I think that's crossing the line.

CUOMO: It is not only a specious legal construction, because it almost never happens - I know why you seize on the case. You know I've covered it very deeply -

DONOHUE: Right.

CUOMO: And understand that it happened. But the idea there's going to be some chilling effect on bakers in this country who don't want to bake cakes for gay weddings is silly. What happens much more often is the tendency to judge people because of who they are. Your pope just came out and said, don't do it like the third or fourth time.

DONOHUE: Well, well, what have I judged - what have I judged gays in (INAUDIBLE) way?

CUOMO: Well, how'd you wind up - how did you wind - well, by saying what they do -

[08:40:03] DONOHUE: By saying what?

CUOMO: What they do is wrong. That they shouldn't have the right to marry.

DONOHUE: I say adulterers are wrong.

CUOMO: But you do - but you do it (INAUDIBLE). DONOHUE: What does - what does that make me?

CUOMO: But you do this a lot more loudly and a lot more proudly than you do that argument (INAUDIBLE).

DONOHUE: Well, people don't ask me about it.

CUOMO: When you Google your name, (INAUDIBLE) adulterer doesn't pop up all over the place. It's about gay marriage.

DONOHUE: I'm against Muslim mad men who kill innocent people in Orlando, OK?

CUOMO: But that's fine. But, first of all, why do you equate being gay and wanting to marry with being a terrorist in Orlando.

DONOHUE: Because you asked me about, what am I opposed to. I'm opposed to things that people do wrong. And if you've done wrong to somebody, then you should apologize.

CUOMO: Who said it's wrong? The pope says, don't worry about what they do. In fact, he told -

DONOHUE: Oh, no, as a matter of fact, he didn't say that. He said it's OK to condemn certain manifestations, though he didn't complete the sentence. It was kind of inexact language. What was he talking about, Chris? It's OK to condemn certain manifestations. It's in the same transcript.

CUOMO: You know where -

DONOHUE: I think I know where he's going. He has said that gay marriage is the work of the devil. He has said that gender ideology, you know, the trans, the trans people, he says that gender ideology is demonic. That's the pope that I like.

CUOMO: Transgender is what you mean, not the trans people.

DONOHUE: Trans people.

CUOMO: The way you talk about them, Bill - look, you know that you have a hostility and animus towards these behaviors.

DONOHUE: I - I'm - I have a hostility to political correctness.

CUOMO: You might as - you might as well own it. It is not - how is it politically correct to allow equal protection under the law and to allow people to be who and what they are, especially as a Catholic? Can you show me where Jesus spent time saying we should not let people be who they are and what they're about, that we should judge people for lifestyle, for being who they are and identity?

DONOHUE: Well - well, there are mobster lifestyles. There's all kinds of lifestyles, which I wasn't want to endorse.

CUOMO: But those are - those are inherently - DONOHUE: Yes.

CUOMO: Those are inherently violent, antagonistic and negative existences.

DONOHUE: Look -

CUOMO: A mobster is not a gay person.

DONOHUE: I - I - I - I - I can agree with you only halfway on this.

CUOMO: A terrorist is not a gay person.

DONOHUE: Your status as a gay person is irrelevant. It's morally irrelevant. You are a child of God. You have the same opportunity going to heaven as anybody else. Behavior is different. Straight people do all kinds of different things sexually which the church doesn't approve of.

CUOMO: The pope says apologize for being offensive to gays -

DONOHUE: For what?

CUOMO: And judging them and mistreating them.

DONOHUE: When you've done something wrong, yes. And if I've done something wrong, I would. What have I done wrong?

CUOMO: Well, what happened - what - how did you wind up at that parade where you got attacked by the lesbians?

DONOHUE: I don't know. I'm waiting for -

CUOMO: What were you doing there, handing out water?

DONOHUE: I - I - I - I was attacked. I was kicked. And I've gotten much worse than that, which I'm not going to get into.

CUOMO: But, why? They just came up to you. They didn't (INAUDIBLE).

DONOHUE: No, because I was taking her picture. This lovely thing, as she's walking in the - in the gay parade, illegally, up Fifth Avenue. I took a picture and I was assaulted by her and others. No, I didn't go to the cops because I'm not a whiner, you know?

CUOMO: Just - just for the photo.

DONOHUE: I'm not a whiner like some people who claim to be a victim every time. That's not Bill Donohue.

CUOMO: Well, you say they're putting their gay on you. It sounds like you're being victimized.

DONOHUE: Well, I just want the apology. I don't - they could send it by FedEx.

CUOMO: Maybe you exchange apologies. See if that works. Sometimes you go first.

Bill Donohue -

DONOHUE: All right.

CUOMO: Thank you for making the case on NEW DAY.

DONOHUE: Thank you. Thank you.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris.

Trillions of dollars lost by investors worldwide, at least on paper, since the Brexit vote. Will the bleeding top today? We have a live report from the New York Stock Exchange next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:47:10] CAMEROTA: The Brexit vote slashing $3 trillion from the pockets of investors, at least on paper. It's the worst two-day period ever for global markets. CNN Money business correspondent Alisyn Kosik is live at the New York Stock Exchange.

How is it looking today, Alison.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, ready, get set, rebound. Less than an hour to go before the opening bell rings here at the New York Stock Exchange and it's looking like there's going to be more buying than selling. In fact, globally, we're watching the exchanges in Europe, they're bouncing back. And we expect to see the Dow here jump as much as 200 points at the open.

But, woo, what a brutal couple of days it's been for the markets. You know, in just two sessions, the Dow has lost almost 900 points. So investors now are ready to scoop up beaten down stocks because of these new expecting they have. Traders are telling me they're expecting some sort of coordinated intervention by central banks to happen. And if it happens, it could put confidence back in the markets by putting out that safety net telling everyone they're hear, ready to act for whatever happens. But keep in mind, this is just an expectation. If that support doesn't come, don't be surprised to see more sell-offs.

Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alison, thank you very much. Obviously, this is a big index for people following what the fallout is of Brexit. And we'll keep our eye on it. You have economic turmoil, you have political turmoil, all because of this big U.K. vote. Former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers is going to join us to discuss what it means to you, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:51:12] BLACKWELL: The United Kingdom is in damage control after the vote to leave the European Union. The U.K.'s AAA bond rating downgraded. The British pound at the lowest levels in decades. And many fearing a ripple effect here in the U.S. Let's discuss with former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers.

Treasury Secretary, thank you - thank you for being in with us.

LAWRENCE H. SUMMERS, FMR. TREASURY SECRETARY: Good to be with you.

BLACKWELL: Well, let me start here. We're seeing the international markets in positive territory four or five days on from the vote now. Have we seen - in the near term, we'll talk about long term in a moment - in the near term have we seen the end of - of the panic?

SUMMERS: Oh, no one can know. Markets fluctuate. I would not be at all confident that the positive action that appears to be in train for the last few hours this morning means that the fever has broken here. These are very fundamental events in terms of the rise of populism, in terms of the 70 year progress towards European integration receiving its most savage interruption. So I wouldn't be confident that we've - that we've seen the last of market reactions to this event.

CUOMO: Why, though? Take us through what the steps will be. Take us through what the steps will be, this - what you call this savage interruption. What are the problems that they will face in terms of how to make this separation happen and what goes along with it?

SUMMERS: This is a divorce from a 40-some year marriage between E.U. - between the E.U. and the U.K. You've got questions in the - in the U.K., what will Scotland do, what will Northern Ireland do? They want to be part of Europe and they can't be part of Europe and be with England. You've got questions about a financial - a financial system for Europe that, to a significant extent, has been headquartered in London, and how will that continue to operate. You have questions of whether this will be a precedent for more actions -

CAMEROTA: Right.

SUMMERS: To pull things apart where there are similar elements to the Brexit element, to the Trump element, in a number of European countries.

CAMEROTA: Right.

SUMMERS: So you've got a variety of significant risks in this situation.

CAMEROTA: And so in all of those risks, what worries you the most?

SUMMERS: I think it's the spread of populism that worries - that worries me the most. I think what worries me is a cycle of worse policy, worse outcomes driving worse politics, driving worse policy, driving worse outcomes. That's the kind of cycle that I'm nervous about.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about the politics then because you've been very critical of Donald Trump. You said that his election would hasten an 18-month -- a recession within 18 months, a protracted one. He'd be worse for the global economy than anyone or anything you could think of. Many of the things you're saying about Donald Trump, the remain campaign said about a Brexit. So how do, I guess, the opponents of Donald Trump and his economic policies reshape their message or pitch it because it didn't seem to work in the Brexit vote?

SUMMERS: You know, there are a lot of differences in between the United States and the United Kingdom. The fraction and diversity of the United States is much greater than in the United Kingdom. And Trump has run very much against our diversity as a nation.

The particular aspects of unsound, impulsive extremism that seemed to characterize Donald Trump weren't present in quite the same way in the United Kingdom.

[08:55:09] BLACKWELL: But it was received as - as scaremongering.

SUMMERS: But, look, I think that - I think people are going to have to - look, maybe received in some corners as scaremongering. But as I fear we're going to find out, that doesn't make it untrue.

CUOMO: You know, you guys -

SUMMERS: And I - but I do think it's going to be hugely important to provide what I've called a responsible nationalist agenda, to provide an agenda that identifies more than the agenda we've had over the years with the interests of what Bill Clinton used to call the people who work hard and play by the rules. And I think that is going to be an important challenge, whether it's about helping people meet responsibilities for family leave, whether it's about making sure that international cooperation isn't so much property rights for large companies as it is making sure that nobody by running across international borders can avoid regulation and can avoid paying the taxes they owe. There's no reason why international cooperation can't be very much in the interests of working people.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

SUMMERS: But I don't think it has been as much as it should.

BLACKWELL: All right. All right. Former Secretary Larry Summers, thanks so much for being with us.

SUMMERS: Good to be with you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much.

And thanks all of you for watching NEW DAY. NEWSROOM with Carol Costello will pick up right after this very quick break. We'll see you tomorrow.

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