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Terrorists Attack Istanbul Airport; Interview with Ambassador James Jeffrey; Donald Trump Addresses Terrorism in Campaign. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired June 29, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONALS SECURITY ANALYST: That's essentially what's going on. They want to show that they're alive and well.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Juliette, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: There is a lot of breaking news coverage on the Istanbul terror attack. Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are so many ambulances. Everything is not OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Carnage and destruction at Turkey's busiest airport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw a lot of people and they're all covered in blood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People falling on the ground, not knowing what's going on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew immediately it was a bomb. I just bolted as fast as I can.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This does bear all the hallmarks of an ISIS attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have all these images of the terrorists coming and trying to kill you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers in the United States and around the world, you are watching NEW DAY. And we do have breaking news today. The death toll is climbing in terror attack on Istanbul's international airport. That's not unusual in a situation like this. They're still trying to get their hands around the immense damage that was done. At latest count, 41 lost their lives, 239 injured.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the suicide attacks have all the hallmarks of ISIS. Incredibly, the airport is back open, less than 24 hours after this carnage unfolded. So let's begin our coverage there with senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir. She is live at the airport in Istanbul. Nima, it is just incredible that the airport is already functioning. I don't know if this says that this is the new normal there.

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I think it is an attempt to get us back to normal as quickly as possible, but an acknowledgement of the reality that Istanbul has been reeling from these kinds of attack for months now.

We want to show you the pictures of the cleanup. This happened very, very quickly. I think that was also, the sense of destabilization. People here are shaken up. It has now been months of a series of these attacks. And the quicker the authorities can get things back to normal the better.

But if I step out, you can see what remains of the impact, the ripped out ceiling tiles, the glass panes that are still shattered, and around us, there are still chards of glass. The reality here is still so, so fresh in spite of these attempts at cleaning up. I want to just remind everyone what unfolded here yesterday evening.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELBAGIR: A horrifying scene of carnage and destruction at Turkey's busiest airport, three suicide attackers carrying out a deadly siege on Tuesday night. The coordinated attack captured by airport surveillance cameras.

SUE SAVAGE, WITNESSED AFTERMATH OF EXPLOSION: I just recognized the gunshots and then heard this huge explosion, and I knew immediately it was a bomb. And I just bolted as fast as I can.

ELBAGIR: Two of the terrorists opened fire at the international terminal before blowing themselves up. This amateur video shows just some of the injured laying outside on the ground before the first explosion.

That sound from the first blast by the arrival hall on the first floor, travelers seemingly unaware of the attack that is about to unfold. Another surveillance video captures the chaos inside as one of the attackers runs into the airport, then he is apparently shot by a police officer, his gun sliding across the floor. Seconds later, another massive explosion, roof tiles falling, panes of shattered glass along the floor bullets perforating the windows and walls.

THOMAS KEMPER, WITNESSED AIRPORT TERROR ATTACK: You don't think it is real, but then people started running and running and running. So we clashed and we fell over each other. It was total chaos.

ELBAGIR: The third attacker detonating a third explosion at a parking lot at Istanbul's airport. Istanbul's airport is known for its heavily fortified security inside and outside the terminals. Turkey's prime minister says the attackers arrived at the airport by taxi. He says all indications point to ISIS, bearing chilling similarities to the deadly bombings in march at Brussels airport.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELBAGIR: The arrivals hall where we're standing, Victor, this took the brunt of the first detonation, and as you were explaining earlier, this is one of the busiest airports in the world. And we're seeing passengers file past us with a steely-jawed realism about the fact that they need to try and get on with their lives. But it is very difficult to completely wipe from your mind where they are walking to get their planes is where people were tracking their bloody footprints as they attempted to save themselves yesterday evening, Victor.

[08:05:02] BLACKWELL: I imagine it is a surreal flurry of activity behind you as people are headed to their flights, but still the window panes missing behind you. Nima Elbagir there at the airport or us, thank you so much.

And officials in the U.S. and Turkey say the attacks appear to be the work of ISIS. With suicide attacks on the rise in Turkey, was this the work of ISIS or another terror group? CNN's senior international correspondent Clarissa Ward is live in Washington. Clarissa, good morning.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Victor. Turkey is no stranger to terror attack. They've had six this year alone. Usually there have been two main culprits. One are a Kurdish separatist group known as the PKK and various offshoots of that group, and the other of course is ISIS.

Now, ISIS traditionally has not claimed responsibility for its attacks in Turkey. This is likely to be because they enjoy the sense of uncertainty, the unsettling nature of leaving it ambiguous as to who is responsible for these attacks. But certainly, as you said, U.S. officials, also Turkey's prime minister says this bars the hallmarks of a ISIS attack.

So what specifically are those hallmarks? Well, look at how these men, these attackers arrived on the scene. They were carrying AK-47s in addition to their explosive vests. This fits into the ISIS model of the so-called suicide warrior, not just a suicide bomber, but a warrior whose intention is to go in and kill as many people as possible with that semi-automatic weapon before then detonating the explosive vest. The idea is to get as many casualties as possible.

You also mentioned earlier Ramadan, Victor. This is the holiest month of the year, and we are now in the last 10 days of Ramadan. These are the holiest days of the holiest month of the year. We did hear ISIS spokesman come out some weeks ago and urge all ISIS supporters to try to carry out these types of taxes. We don't yet know, though, was this an ISIS directed attack or an ISIS inspired attack. So officials here in the U.S., intelligence officials and on the ground in Turkey will be looking very closely to try to find out more details. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Understood, Clarissa. Thank you for all of that reporting.

So let's bring in now former U.S. ambassador to Turkey and Iraq as well as visiting fellow at the Washington Institute, Ambassador James Jeffrey. Mr. Ambassador, thanks so much for being here. As you just heard in Clarissa's reporting, this is not the first terror attack this year in Turkey. It is in fact, the eighth. Why has Turkey become a main terror target?

AMBASSADOR JAMES JEFFREY, VISITING FELLOW, THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE: Alisyn, first of all, our condolences to the families of all who were killed and wounded.

Turkey is a target because it is first of all in a very bad neighborhood in the Middle East essentially melting down in a free fall into crisis right now. Secondly, it has both a domestic terrorist group, the PKK, a revolutionary Kurdish group, and it has, of course, ISIS operating just south of the border and moving back and forth across the border into Turkey. So it faces two threats. And ISIS has struck in Turkey we believe four times counting yesterday in the past year.

CAMEROTA: Our military experts tell us that ISIS is actually losing ground in Iraq, and in Syria, and yet it sure feels as though their operational capabilities have not been diminished. Where are you on this?

JEFFREY: I'm on, we need to act more quickly. As we just saw in the Iraqi town of Fallujah, when the U.S. and local allies mount a strong offensive, these guys can be pushed back. We need to destroy ISIS as a state and as an army and as a refuge where they can plan attacks like this because this was clearly a planned ISIS attack. And that requires more U.S. boots on the ground. It requires a stronger effort out of Washington.

CAMEROTA: So talk to us about that. You would recommend more boots on the ground where? And you would recommend, it sounds like, more bombing campaigns?

JEFFREY: Well, certainly more aircraft, loser rules of engagement, more advisory teams possibly, more special forces raids, and perhaps some maneuver units with call them, battalion size, on the ground in northern Iraq to move against the citadel of Mosul and in Syria against the capital of ISIS, Raqqa. Until these places are taken, ISIS is going to continue planning attacks like this and in Brussels.

CAMEROTA: How many boots on the ground are you thinking?

JEFFREY: This is in the few thousands. We already have some 6,000 troops in Iraq and in Syria. They're just not able to be used the way they should be used, the way they've been trained. With those troops and some reinforcements, I think we do this quickly.

CAMEROTA: And why aren't those troops being used the way you say they've been trained?

JEFFREY: There are some local concerns, particularly in Iraq, but a lot of it this administration simply is very reluctant to commit American troops and to take casualties for almost any cause.

[08:10:08] CAMEROTA: Have you shared your feelings with the administration?

JEFFREY: Many, many people, including I have shared our feelings with the administration over the past two years, including many people on the ground trying to do this job.

CAMEROTA: And what has been the response?

JEFFREY: The response has been a considerable increase in the forces committed, and the liberalization of the rules of engagement. It's just not enough. In other conflicts we have used more liberal rules. We have employed people differently. We're moving towards that now. We need to move towards that even quicker, because attacks like this can have a tremendous destabilizing effect on stability of our allies and ultimately on the United States.

CAMEROTA: So when Donald Trump says we need to be smarter and we need to be stronger, and he says we need to bring back water boarding and we need to bomb the hell out of them, what is that message? How does that message resonate with you?

JEFFREY: Leaving aside the politics of it, torturing people is not a solution, and carpet bombing is what the Russians do in Syria is not how we fight wars. However, we can take somewhat more risks in terms of the type of ordnance we drop, in terms of the closeness to civilian personnel, civilian buildings and such. But in the end, we have to fight a war in a humane way.

CAMEROTA: The U.S. State Department on Monday put out a travel warning. They said the U.S. Department of State warns U.S. citizens of increased threats from terrorist groups throughout Turkey and to avoid travel to southeastern Turkey. This didn't happen in southeastern Turkey, but they were warning of travel to Turkey. That was the day before this attack. Did they know something?

JEFFREY: I don't think they had specific intelligence, because they would have informed the Turks and the Turks would have taken even more extensive security measures and the very good ones that the Turks did take. The State Department has issued a whole series of what we call citizen warnings over the past year about Turkey because of the set of attacks there and because of its proximity to the fighting in Syria and Iraq.

CAMEROTA: Some of our analysts believe this happened yesterday because just yesterday, Turkey struck a diplomatic deal with Israel after a six year rift. Do you think that it was strategic timing on the part of ISIS or whoever is behind this, or just a target of opportunity?

JEFFREY: Alisyn, that's almost impossible. First of all, attacks like this require planning, logistics, preparations, scouting out the terrain. Secondly, relations with Israel on the part of anyone is at the very bottom of ISIS' political interest. They have many other interests and many other enemies. They would not have motivated them I don't think.

CAMEROTA: Ambassador James Jeffrey, we always appreciate having you on NEW DAY. Thank you so much for all of your expertise.

JEFFREY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's go to Chris.

CUOMO: So we have there the perspective of somebody who has been involved with this, and now we have to put that on to what we're hearing in the election. You have the rivals, Clinton and Trump, both agreeing terrorists need to be stopped, things need to be better. But how? That's going to be a big distinguishing characteristic. CNN's Phil Mattingly joining us now with more. Phil?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, it is the ever present element of the 2016 campaign, terror. It is riling up voters. It is causing a lot of concern inside the campaigns, and yesterday, we got another look of how the two candidates are trying to deal with it. Trump, offering strength, Hillary Clinton, offering a steady hand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We had another suicide bombing, Istanbul, Turkey, many, many people killed.

MATTINGLY: The airport attack in Istanbul, leading presidential candidates to once again address terrorism on the campaign trail.

TRUMP: We better get smart and we better get tough or we're not going to have much of a country left, OK. It's bad.

MATTINGLY: Hillary Clinton refraining from any mention of the terror attack during a town hall in Los Angeles Tuesday night, instead releasing a statement, pledging that the attack in Istanbul only strengthens our resolve to defeat the forces of terrorism and radical jihadism around the world. Contrast that with Trump, who is again arguing for using torture in the fight against terror.

TRUMP: So we can't do waterboarding, but they can do chopping off heads. We have to be so strong. We have to fight so viciously and violently because we're dealing with violent people.

MATTINGLY: The presumptive GOP nominee coming under fire, once again, for his rhetoric.

TRUMP: The Transpacific Partnership is another disaster, done and pushed by special interests, who want to rape our country.

[08:14:50] MATTINGLY: Trump provocatively rip up international trade details, spending most of Tuesday laying out his economic plans and arguing that Americans need to take their country back.

TRUMP: Globalization has made the financial elite who donate to politicians, very, very wealthy. I used to be one of them. It's left millions of our workers with nothing but poverty and heartache. MATTINGLY (voice-over): Clinton saying she's sympathetic to people

drawn to Trump's message.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: They have lost faith in their government, in the economy, certainly in politics, and most other institutions. I am not sympathetic to the xenophobia, the misogyny, the homophobia, the Islamophobia, and all of the other sort of dog whistles that Trump uses.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And Donald Trump has made clear, whether it's national security or economic policy, he is fully planning to tap into that vein of disillusionment. The uneasiness that voters are clearly feeling inside the country. But guys, there's an interesting thing that happened yesterday as we continue to watch the evolution of the Trump campaign.

That economics speech, scripted. Donald Trump didn't move off of it much at all. Before it (ph) get response we saw at the rally related to the terror attacks, a very coherent and muted statement on national security. So what we're seeing right now is Trump trying to walk that line, find that balance between what got him to this point right now, and what he needs to do to win in a general election. Victor?

BLACKWELL: And no mention of that Muslim ban that he pitched back in December. Phil thanks so much. Now you heard there, Trump and Clinton weighing in on the Turkey attack, but who do voters trust to keep them safe here at home? We look at the numbers, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:20:18] CUOMO: All right so we're dealing with the attacks in Istanbul. They matter just on their own, these three different bombings. But they also matter to the election. How are the two candidates who want to be President of the United States, dealing with it?

And we heard a big speech from Donald Trump yesterday about trade. It was real. We keep saying, "how, how, how?" He gave you how, yesterday. How does it size up with what should be done? Two big issues. Let's discuss.

We have Matt Schlapp, former George W. Bush Political Director, and Chairman of the American Conservative Union. He has endorsed Trump for President. And we have global affairs and economic analyst, Ali Velshi. Matt, you see this situation in Turkey, you hear Trump's response. Why is that the winning formula for what to do about ISIS?

MATT SCHLEPP, FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH POLITICAL DIRECTOR, CHAIRMAN, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: Look, poll after poll after poll, including the poll that shows him trailing Hillary Clinton the most, shows him on the question of, "will he have the leadership to destroy ISIS?" He has the most commanding lead over Hillary Clinton.

There is something about the guy where he connects to voters on the fact that they feel -- I think this is very true in America today -- they feel that we lack leadership and a true understanding of what's going on in this war against Islamic terror.

CUOMO: Regardless of the facts on the ground, we've had every expert today say what you know, and what you know, Ali. Which is they're losing ground ...

ALI VELSHI, GLOBAL AFFAIRS AND ECONOMIC ANALYST: Right.

CUOMO: ... ISIS is. And that's forcing different desperate -- people don't care. You don't call them Islamic radical terrorists, you won't do waterboarding, you don't want to be as tough as they are on us. You're weak. Trump says, "I'll be strong." Is that enough?

VELSHI: Well the generalities make him seem strong. But again, as you just talked to others about, the specificity helps here. Some troops on the ground, that's what a lot of people are calling for. But the fact is we are showing that what we've got there, those some 5,000, 6,000 troops, are pushing them out.

They're out of Fallujah, Mosul's going to be a little bit tougher, and getting into Syria's going to be next to impossible because the Syrian government doesn't want the Americans there. So we have to think about this in a sophisticated manner. You have to weaken their infrastructure, and you've got to get to their finances. And that is something that the -- our allies in the region can be most helpful for. Because the money they're getting is coming from the region.

So we have to just be sophisticated about this. Saying generally that we have to be tough, and this is really bad, while it appeals to people -- and it's visceral and I get that -- isn't a solution.

I think Hillary Clinton could do with a little more detail on her plan about how to do this as well. So I think there's a middle ground and it's right. And George W. Bush got that, that it's complicated. This thing is very complicated ...

SCHLAPP: Look, in all fairness to her as a candidate, I don't know how she now tells the American people that she has a strategy on radical Islamic terrorism. Because she was President Obama's Secretary of State. She owns the last seven years, no matter what she says at this point.

CUOMO: But how do you -- so then you're suggestion is to write off any of the gains on the ground against ISIS?

SCHLAPP: No, no no. Let's be fair. Let's give them credit where credit is due. But I think ...

CUOMO: It never happened, by the way.

SCHLAPP: ... this should ... OK ...

CUOMO: ... nobody ever says ...

SCHLAPP: ... that is ... CUOMO: ... that they're pushing back.

SCHLAPP: ... they do ...

CUOMO: ... no don't say -- you don't hear anybody, Trump ...

SCHLAPP: ... right.

CUOMO: ... or anybody say we're winning on the ground with ISIS ...

SCHLAPP: ... Look, I want them ...

CUOMO: ... Nobody says that.

SCHLAPP: ... Let me just say, I'm going to say this. I want them to win. I think these people want to destroy America and I want them to win.

CUOMO: But you -- well no ...

(CROSSTALK)

SCHLAPP: Here's, here's, here's what you guys ...

VELSHI: Wait, you want who to win?

SCHLAPP: I want America to beat these guys ...

CUOMO: Oh, oh of course you do.

SCHLAPP: I want the President to succeed, OK?

CUOMO: Of course you do.

VELSHI: Right.

SCHLAPP: And I wanted Hillary Clinton to succeed when she was Secretary of State. But they fell on their face and they never saw what the true threat was. And what the American voter is saying when poll after poll -- this is not me saying it ...

VELSHI: Yeah.

SCHLAPP: ... this is what they're saying -- they're saying there's something about these guys. They just don't get the fact that we have to take these guys on. And it's not just ISIS ...

VELSHI: I agreed with that.

SCHLAPP: ... it wasn't just Al Qaeda. They're coming and self- radicalizing in America ...

VELSHI: No, I -- I mean you have like us (ph) ...

SCHLAPP: ... and when you have votes like the Brexit vote ...

VELSHI: Let's give credit where credit is due about not understanding Iraq. I think that goes back to your administration. So ...

SCHLAPP: Look you want to make ...

VELSHI: ... everybody doesn't understand it, it's complicated ...

SCHLAPP: ... make cheap shots, go for it.

VELSHI: ... now I'm not making -- I'm trying to say there are lots of people who don't understand it. This is really, really complicated. So Donald Trump's simple answers bely what the Clinton admin -- what the Bush administration didn't know and what the Obama administration didn't understand ...

SCHLAPP: I think it's actually ...

VELSHI: ... Why do you think he knows it better than two administrations ...

SCHLAPP: I think we're ...

VELSHI: ... over 16 years?

SCHLAPP: I think for voters this isn't that hard. I think they'll give a leader the benefit of the doubt that it is complicated, and this is a big, hairy problem of ...

VELSHI: It's been 16 years of getting leaders ...

SCHLAPP: Let me finish, let me finish ...

VELSHI: ... the benefit of the doubt.

CUOMO: Let him finish ...

SCHLAPP: ... of defeating this terrorist threat. It's a big problem. They want them to connect with the fact that they're worried about it, that they're scared about the future of the country. And when they can't call the enemy what the enemy is -- and when San Bernardino happened, you know what they did with the flags when they put them at half-mast? They said it was workplace violence. That's discordant (ph) through the voters. They know what this is. These are terrorists among us ...

CUOMO: Look there's got to be something to what Matt's saying because we're seeing it in the polls.

VELSHI: I agree with him.

CUOMO: But ... and I get it ...

VELSHI: I can hear what he's saying (ph) ...

CUOMO: ... you've got to take the next step.

VELSHI: This won't solve -- none of it solves the problem of ...

CUOMO: This is true, but sometimes what people want to first be is consoled. And know that emotionally ...

VELSHI: Fair enough.

CUOMO: ... you know where they are as their leader. So that's one issue. Now and issue that is not as emotional is, how are you going to bring jobs back into this country? Everybody says they're going to bring jobs back, in every election. Yesterday Trump gave a speech saying how he would do it. So the critics who are saying he never does that, shut up, he did it yesterday. What were his main points?

SCHLAPP: I think his main points -- his biggest point in all this is he's a businessman, he negotiates deals. What these trade deals are, they're not free. They're just contracts that get negotiated. And he's sending a message to China and the rest of the world that if he's the leader of the American economy, he's going to cut much -- he's going to negotiate much tougher deals.

CUOMO: NAFTA is going to be gone. The current state of affairs with China's going to be gone ...

VELSHI: No really, you know, you know that it's true.

CUOMO: I mean, that's what he's saying ...

[08:25:38] SCHLAPP: Well I think what he's saying is that he's going to use all the powers he has to make sure that he stands up for the American worker. Hillary Clinton says ...

CUOMO: Yeah, but hold on, hold on one second. Hold on a second ...

SCHLAPP: Sure, yeah.

CUOMO: Because this speech he said, "I'm going to get rid of that deal."

SCHLAPP: He did.

CUOMO: ... I'm going to change the deal with the UN and NAFTA (ph). What's that about?

SCHLAPP: Well you have to follow ...

CUOMO: You endorse the guy for President.

SCHLAPP: I do and I want him to be President.

CUOMO: Right.

SCHLAPP: I'm just saying that what he's saying is that we have to go through a process where we get rid of the bad deals. I think it's more complicated than just saying he's going to get rid of it. I think you have to go through a process to get rid of these deals and to renegotiate deals. And I think the message he's sending is the right message. But just let me tell you something else. The -- one of the reasons why manufacturing has left is not just because of maybe a poorly executed deal. It's also because our regulatory environment and our tax environment. We have the highest income taxes on corporations in the world. Hillary Clinton said in her speech the other day ...

VELSHI: I'm with the lots, OK (ph) ...

SCHLAPP: Let me finish. Let me say ...

VELSHI: You've been talking for a while though ...

SCHLAPP: Let me finish. She said ...

CUOMO: ha! I'm almost done, buddy. I'm almost done. Have to go to a commercial break soon.

SCHLAPP: She said she wanted to raise those income taxes. That's not going to create any jobs.

VELSHI: I guess we have to go to a commercial break.

CUOMO: Ali hold on a second. Use your time to make some points.

VELSHI: Yeah.

CUOMO: You say that there was some dishonest premises ...

VELSHI: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CUOMO: ... in his speech, that need to come out, what are they?

VELSHI: Yeah well there are a few of them. First of all, again, the people who wanted NAFTA more than anyone was the Bush administration. Carla Hills, they negotiated it, couldn't get it finished. He talked about bringing jobs back that are lost because of low wages. A third of our jobs -- if not more -- in manufacturing, have been lost to gains in productivity.

We manufacture much, much more in America than when Barack Obama became President. The fact is, it's a bad situation but we manufacture more with fewer workers, and they're not getting paid as well. That is reality. Is he going to undo technology? Are we going to start to actually have people ...

SCHLAPP: No.

VELSHI: ... make things by hand?

SCHLAPP: No but let's face it we should not make ...

VELSHI: Even iPhones are made by robots.

SCHLAPP: We cannot make everything here, but we ought to acknowledge some things. When we don't manufacture things here ...

VELSHI: Right.

SCHLAPP: ... there's a whole lot ... VELSHI: All right, let me talk.

SCHLAPP: Boy you're really not good at letting me finish.

VELSHI: I am ...

SCHLAPP: We make them ...

CUOMO: I'm kind of enjoying the dynamic though, I have to be honest.

VELSHI: (INAUDIBLE)

SCHLAPP: If we don't manufacture ...

VELSHI: You couldn't stop talking to me in the greenroom.

SCHLAPP: If we don't ... well you know, I've learned from my mistakes ...

CUOMO: All right make your point and then have a -- and then have a -- and then pull it up ...

SCHLAPP: OK so if we don't manufacture things in America, they are made someplace else in a dirtier fashion. And the fact is we're not going to make some ...

VELSHI: But we can't manufacture things ...

SCHLAPP: No we're not going to make everything here, but we can make a lot more here ...

VELSHI: But you can't eliminate the pages (ph) ...

SCHLAPP: ... and we shouldn't be cavalier -- we can't be cavalier about dismissing important jobs and turning them over to other countries and other sectors. I want to make as much as we can here. We can't make everything, but we should make as much as we can.

VELSHI: Right and so when you start taking away these tariffs and you start canceling these deals, how is it you think other people are going to buy your stuff, and that you're going to be able to buy their stuff cheaply?

SCHLAPP: It's very simple. The other thing is how do you think American products can't be bought now even without a deal? Look after you get done with TPP ...

VELSHI: Hey so you know TPP lifts tariffs on 70 percent of the cars that go to Japan, on 87 percent of the cars that go into Vietnam. Like that is actually part of negotiation ...

SCHLAPP: Will you get ...

VELSHI: ... getting American product into places. You been to Vietnam?

SCHLAPP: No.

VELSHI: They do nothing but drive ...

SCHLAPP: Let me just ...

VELSHI: ... They want cars ...

SCHLAPP: ... let me just say ...

VELSHI: ... but they're all Japanese cars ...

SCHLAPP: ... you're very good ...

VELSHI: ... because Americans can't get them safe ...

SCHLAPP: ... but let me just say ...

VELSHI: ... We have passed that.

SCHLAPP: ... if you have a free trade agreement they don't need to be so big and so complicated. And both economies, both markets should be freer. Unfortunately when we get done with many of these free trade agreements ...

VELSHI: Yeah.

SCHLAPP: ... the American economy is open to them and their economy ...

VELSHI: But that's just not true.

SCHLAPP: ... stays closed.

VELSHI: ... that's just not true.

SCHLAPP: It is true.

VELSHI: ... Look at Japan ...

SCHLAPP: ... Americans will be able to sell cars ...

VELSHI: Look at Japan.

SCHLAPP: ... in Japan, in Vietnam, where again, you don't see Americans ...

VELSHI: You're wrong.

SCHLAPP: No, I'm not wrong, it's a fact. What percent ...

VELSHI: I know you'd like it to sound simple but Matt ...

SCHLAPP: What percent ...

VELSHI: ... but trade deals are not simple, Matt.

SCHLAPP: ... The Japanese ...

VELSHI: They take ten years to negotiate ...

SCHLAPP: The Japanese ...

CUOMO: OK Very good ...

VELSHI: Everybody feels the same way you do.

SCHLAPP: The Japanese economy is basically a closed economy. At the end of TPP it will only -- about 10 percent of that economy will be open to other products. The fact is, is this, that's not equitable.

VELSHI: Japan's one of the biggest economies in the world. 10 percent of the Japanese economy opened to American products ...

CUOMO: Let's leave it there ...

VELSHI: ... is a lot more than we have now a days.

CUOMO: ... This was actually progress. I want you to know that. In an election where all we're hearing is "crooked," and "un -- no temperament for President," you're going at the issues, you're giving the sides.

VELSHI: Hey ...

CUOMO: It's valuable. Thank you fellas, appreciate it. On me because of this, by the way. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK another terror attack, this one closer to home. We now know there were terrified calls for help from inside that gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida. Questions still being raised about how long it took police to end the attack. Orlando's Police Chief joins us with his response, next.

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