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New Day
13 Detained in Istanbul Airport Attack Raids; U.S. Airports Beef Up Security after Istanbul Attack; Obama & Trump Trade Jabs on Trade. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired June 30, 2016 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New information in the Turkey airport massacre.
[05:58:41] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were bullets coming from...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: U.S. airports have ramped up security.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be surprised if ISIL is not considering carrying out these attacks on the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we need to do is destroy them. They will not self-destruct.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know every form of trade. Fair trade, good trade, bad trade.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The prescription of withdrawing from trade deals, that's the wrong medicine.
TRUMP: We're already losing the trade war, folks.
OBAMA: You don't suddenly come a populist because they say something controversial in order to win votes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The daring roller coaster rescue in Oklahoma City.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not exactly sure how they're going to get everybody down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going up the hill, and suddenly it just stopped.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That looks scary. We'll get to that momentarily. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, June 30, 6 a.m. in the east, and Victor Blackwell joins us again.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Good to be back. CAMEROTA: Great to have you hear.
We do start with breaking news, though. We do have breaking news on the Istanbul terror attack investigation.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Turkish police have been conducting anti- terror raids in multiple occasions in connection with Tuesday's deadly bombing. We just got some new information about them. Let's get right to Brooke Baldwin. She's live at the Istanbul airport with those details.
Brooke, what do we know now?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chris and Alisyn, good morning.
We know a lot. Significant developments here on this early Thursday morning. Beyond the fact that this airport here in Istanbul is fully reopened, we now know that police, special operations have carried out raids here in and around Istanbul in 16 different neighborhoods or 16 different addresses in total. Thirteen different people have been detained, including three foreign nationals, all of it, they are telling it, in connection to the triple suicide attack here at the Istanbul airport.
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BALDWIN (voice-over): A Turkish official says one attacker walked into the arrivals area of the international terminal, blowing himself up near the security checkpoint. The chaos and confusion giving the second attacker the opportunity to go up to the departures hall.
This surveillance video captures him running across the terminal with a Kalashnikov assault rifle in hand. Moments later, detonating his suicide vest.
A third attacker waiting outside, setting off a third blast outside as frightened travelers ran for their lives.
ISIS has not claimed responsibility for the attack, but Turkish and U.S. officials say it bears the hallmarks of the terror group.
JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: I think what they do is they carry out these attacks to gain the benefits from it. At the same time, not wanting to potentially maybe alienate some of those individuals inside of Turkey that they may be still trying to gain the support of.
BALDWIN: Investigators say the method used by these attackers is strikingly similar to the Brussels bombings. In both cases, three men carried out the attacks, arriving in a taxi, all with explosives and targeting international airports.
Brennan warning ISIS is likely moving toward targeting westerners, and they may be planning attacks in the United States.
BRENNAN: The United States, as we well know, is leading the coalition to try to destroy as much of this poison inside of Syria and Iraq as possible. So it would be surprising to me that ISIL is not trying to hit us, both in the region as well as in our homeland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Obviously, we'll stay on top of the latest as far as what's happening here in Istanbul on the raids.
Just, though, Victor, on a bit of color, I came in from France just yesterday. I've been here maybe 24 hours. And I have to say, walking through the Paris airport compared to here in Istanbul, I was struck by the long guns and the security in Charles De Gaulle, even versus here in Istanbul.
I will say just driving past, we drove past to come to this live location for you, where the bombs went off, where the explosions went off. Just inside the glass doors, where you have to walk through metal detectors just to enter the airport, and it looked to me many of the glass panels have already been replaced. You see here cars streaming by. It's almost like another normal Thursday in Istanbul.
BLACKWELL: That surprises a lot of people saying the airport opening just hours after those suicide bombs. Brooke there at the airport for us. Thank you so much.
And security is being ramped up at U.S. airports after the Istanbul attack. Anti-terror officials on high alert ahead of the Fourth of July holiday weekend.
Now, this is happening as a debate rages here about extending our security perimeter at our nation's airports. CNN aviation correspondent Rene Marsh is live at Reagan National Airport in Washington with more.
Rene, good morning.
RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Victor.
It's estimated some 43 million Americans will travel over this Fourth of July holiday. That's the highest on record. The majority of them will drive, but some 3 million will fly.
And after those two airport bombings in just the span of three months, this is the area that's the area of the concern. This is the so- called soft target of an airport, any part of the airport before you get to that security checkpoint. It has a lot of passengers but a lot less security. And that is what terrorists are taking advantage of.
What we're seeing here in the United States is a lot of airports in places like New York, they are ramping up security. Their officers are being armed with tactical weapons. In Miami, in Atlanta, they're also increasing their police presence. But specifically around the perimeter of the airport. The so-called soft target, Victor.
We know -- CNN has learned the Department of Homeland Security, they have been having conversations for quite some time about possibly extending their security reach. Right now they're only responsible for this, the checkpoint. So discussions are, you know, should they expand that? Should they expand that security line beyond the security checkpoint so that this is not the first line of defense?
At this point, that would take a lot of manpower, money. It doesn't seem like that is something that would move here domestically any time soon.
Back to you, Alisyn and Chris.
[06:05:06] CUOMO: All right. We'll take it. Thank you very much.
All right. So we have Brooke Baldwin at the airport. We'll keep her on standby. And let's bring in CNN global affairs analyst, contributing writer for "The Daily Beast," Kimberly Dozier; and CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA counterterrorism official Phil Mudd.
Let's start with these raids. OK? Lots of different locations, people being detained. What's the strategy in a situation like this?
PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Don't assume that these are directly connected to what happened a couple of days ago.
CAMEROTA: Why, aren't they?
MUDD: Security officials are under a lot of pressure. They don't necessarily have a name yet, which is the first indicator you want to have of what the network is. They're saying, let's look at people who we've been having under investigation that might be involved in bringing suspects in from Turkey. Whether or not we're certain they're connected with this. We're going to shake the trees. Bring them in, bring a laptop in. See if they say something. They're two days in. Political pressure, international pressure to show some progress. They've got to do something.
CAMEROTA: Well, see, Kimberly, herein lies the problem. We saw the same thing after Brussels, the same thing after -- why don't they do these things before the terror attacks? If they're so suspicious of these people, why doesn't this happen proactively?
KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, they are doing raids throughout the country. But you have to think about the number of Syrian refugees. If this was ISIS, they still haven't claimed responsibility and probably won't.
But there are some 3 million Syrian refugees throughout that country. Along the border with Syria, you've got towns where Turkish security officials fear for their lives because of the ISIS infiltration. I spoke to at least one who fled the country, because he and his family were being targeted because of these crackdowns on ISIS.
So these are ongoing. This is something that Turkey lives with. It's only come to our attention because of these awful attacks.
CUOMO: In Paris, it was a different situation, obviously, watching it happen there. They had a big set of restrictions about what they were doing. Now they're in a state of emergency, and they're doing operations like they always have before. That wound up being all those raids were connected to what they believed to be a big cell, a network there. This seems to be different, according to you, Phil.
Let me ask you something, Tim. Playing to the state of play in American politics and what this attack means, to the state of play here, it is a reaction to the reality that this is happening all the time, because ISIS is winning. And we bring on military experts who show us how much land has been taken back in big cities like Fallujah from ISIS. And they say ISIS is not winning. What's your take?
DOZIER: So that's one of the things that CIA chief John Brennan has been trying to address, this duality of how can ISIS be losing on the battlefield but still strong as a terrorist group? And one of the things that he says and other counterterrorism officials say is it just doesn't take that many resources to carry out terrorism attacks. And when you've got the momentum that ISIS has from the land that it's taken over the past two years, even though it is suffering defeats in Fallujah, it's under siege in a place called Manvich (ph), near the Turkish border. Still has the attention of a population out there with a lot of grievances that ISIS's successes give them something to cheer.
CAMEROTA: So Brooke, tell us a little bit more. If you know anything, 16 raids, we understand, 13 people arrested. Have authorities told you anything about these people?
BALDWIN: Yes, well, I think -- I think Phil brings up a great point in that you can't jump to the conclusion that this is absolutely, inconclusively tied to what happened here at the airport.
I think, in the wake of what happened here, the horrific triple suicide bombings, you know, you have these Special Operations police shaking the trees, just to borrow his phrase, around neighborhoods here in Istanbul.
I also think it's also worth pointing out, you know, two factors that perhaps led to what we've now seen as far as ISIS and the different suicide bombings here in Turkey this year. You have the fact that they're feeling they've really been sealing off the border. You have the fact that they have opened Incirlik air base so that the U.S.-led coalition has been able to run sorties over both Iraq and Syria.
And so, in the wake of that, if you looked at the cover of an ISIS magazine, you had then the picture of President Erdogan here of Turkey standing alongside President Barack Obama. So there is this uptick in anger toward Turkey, but interesting that, in any of these different attacks, they have not -- ISIS has not claimed responsibility, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: The other big reflection back here, Phil, is it brings us back to airport security. People are afraid. But it's not reality that airports are soft targets and the compromise between freedom of travel and security is one that's going to leave you with a vulnerability?
MUDD: Reality check, Chris. A couple months ago we're talking about TSA lines at airports.
CUOMO: Right.
MUDD: Now we're saying, "OK, we've got an attack in Turkey. Let's look at airports here." That is the wrong question.
If you looking at targets from ISIS and al Qaeda, you're looking at, for example, trains, subways. In the U.K. in 2005, we've seen buses attacked. Now we're seeing not airlines but airports.
So multiply that a thousand times across the U.S. San Francisco, the BART; the Metro in Washington, the subway in New York. Chicago, LAX. You start to say, if we want to think about hardening, don't think about what happened in Turkey.
[06:10:13] Think about, A, the number of targets we have to -- we have to consider, given what ISIS and al Qaeda have gone after. And B, think about the conversation in two months when people say, "I don't want to wait in line for an hour and a half to get on an airplane."
CAMEROTA: And CIA director John Brennan is talking about those possible targets here at home. So let me play for you what he has said yesterday about this.
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BRENNAN: It would be surprising to me that ISIL is not trying to hit us both in the region as well as in our homeland. If anybody here believes that, you know, the U.S. homeland is hermetically sealed and that the DAISH or ISIL would not consider that, I think I would, you know, guard against that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: After San Bernardino and Orlando, who thinks the U.S. is hermetically sealed? I mean, it happens. There's self-radicalization via the Internet. You know?
DOZIER: And yet the number of lone-wolf and overall terrorist attacks -- attempts in this country are not to the point where it's changing our way of life.
Yes, all of those transport systems that you mentioned, airports, et cetera, are fairly open. Until you've got a number of attacks, we're not going to do things like the way Israelis do at their airport, which is have a check and a mile outside the airport so that you limit the number of people who could be affected by gunfire or an explosion.
CUOMO: Then you have a different of rules for people working at the airport versus those who are traveling, and it creates all kinds of risk assessments and problems. You've never met a Phil Mudd type who doesn't tell a Kim Dozier type, "We're lucky there aren't more attacks in the United States." Not that there are two.
CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you very much for your expertise.
Let's get over to Victor.
BLACKWELL: Three weeks now before accepting the Republican nomination, Donald Trump is at war with his party, big business, and President Obama over trade. And despite taking fire from all sides, Trump is expected to double down today and rail against those deals again.
CNN's Jason Carroll joins us now with more.
Jason, good morning.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Victor.
President Obama and Donald Trump going toe to toe on trade policy. The president going after Trump during a trade summit in Canada, calling out the presumptive nominee for not having a true populist message.
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CARROLL (voice-over): President Obama laying into Donald Trump's protectionist trade agenda as not feasible, calling it a prescription that won't help U.S. workers but would actually hurt them.
OBAMA: Withdrawing from trade deals and focusing solely on your local market, that's the wrong medicine. Our auto plants, for example, would shut down if we didn't have access to some parts in other parts of the world.
CARROLL: Speaking at a rally in Bangor, Maine, Trump again laid out his plan which calls for possibly pulling out of NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement. His proposals drawing criticism not just from the left but firing back at the spoke of ns again, which calls for possibly pulling out of the transpacific trade deal. Trump firing back at the usually GOP-friendly U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
TRUMP: The United States Chamber of Commerce is upset with me. They say we're going to lose a trade war. We're already losing the trade war, folks.
CARROLL: Trump's attacks coming on the heels of two days of critiques from the Chamber of Commerce, live tweeting during Trump's economic speech on Tuesday: "Under Trump's trade plans, we would see higher prices, fewer jobs and a weaker economy."
Trump now accusing the Chamber of being controlled by special interest groups, boasting that, if elected, he can negotiate better deals.
TRUMP: We lost the trade war. We're getting killed. There's nothing could happen worse than what's happening now. We're getting killed.
CARROLL: The presumptive GOP nominee threatening agreements with China in the process.
TRUMP: I want to renegotiate a deal. I want to terminate the deal and do a good deal. And that's all I want. CARROLL: The president making a point to dismiss Trump's so-called
populist message.
OBAMA: They don't suddenly become populist, because they say something controversial in order to win votes. That's not the measure of populism. That's nativism. Or xenophobia.
CARROLL: Trump taking aim at Hillary Clinton by trying to appeal to Sanders supporters.
TRUMP: Bernie Sanders cannot stand Hillary Clinton. You wouldn't think this. But there is one thing that Bernie Sanders and I are in complete accord with. That's trade. He said we're being ripped off. I say we're being ripped off.
CARROLL: Trump also taking a swipe at old foes, calling out his former GOP rivals for their lack of support.
TRUMP: You know these people, they signed the pledge. Remember, they all wanted me to sign the pledge. They broke their word. In my opinion, they should never be allowed to run for public office again.
CARROLL: And Trump's allies aren't letting up attacking Elizabeth Warren's heritage. Conservative radio host Howie Carr opening Trump's rally by mocking the Massachusetts senator.
HOWIE CARR, CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST: You know Elizabeth Warren, right? (DOES MOCK WAR CRY)
CARROLL: Picking up on Trump's incessant jabs, calling Warren "Pocahontas."
TRUMP: Pocahontas, that's this Elizabeth Warren.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: A number of native Americans upset by those comments. A little bit more on the battle Trump is having with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The chamber points to an op-ed Trump wrote for CNN three years ago about the global economy. There were no calls for pulling out of NAFTA.
Instead, Trump wrote, "The future of Europe, as well as the United States, depends on a cohesive global economy. All of us must work together toward that very significant common goal." The Chamber saying the Trump of 2013 is much better than the Trump of today -- Chris.
CUOMO: Times change, Jason. Especially when you're running for president. Appreciate the reporting.
CARROLL: You bet.
CUOMO: All right. So we're going to be talking about what's going on with Trump, now at odds on trade with the president, as well, and his own party. How did this happen? What is Trump presenting that's so unique when it comes to trade? We're going to take you through it next.
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[06:20:16] TRUMP: The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is totally controlled by the special interest groups, folks. Just so you understand. And there are special interests that want to have the deals that they want to have. They want to have TPP, Transpacific Partnership. One of the worst deals. It will be the worst deal since NAFTA.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: That was Donald Trump slamming the Republican-friendly U.S. Chamber of Commerce for a, quote, "sinister trade agenda." What's his agenda?
Let's bring in Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich; CNN political analyst and editor in chief of "The Daily Beast," John Avlon; and Ali Velshi, global affairs and economic analyst.
OK. So Ali, let me start with you. Part of Donald Trump's appeal is that there are no sacred cows.
ALI VELSHI, GLOBAL AFFAIRS AND ECONOMIC ANALYST: Right.
CAMEROTA: It doesn't matter if somebody's Republican-friendly; doesn't matter if they have a long history of supporting Republican candidates.
VELSHI: Yes.
CAMEROTA: He's willing to go after them. So the Chamber of Commerce didn't like his economic speech.
VELSHI: Right.
CAMEROTA: And now he says that they have a sinister agenda.
VELSHI: Right. It's easy to pick on the Chamber of Commerce, because the Chamber of Commerce is like a hammer. A lot of things are nails to them. It's very, very obvious. They are very big pro-free traders, but there are only a handful of wonks in the country who pay attention to these trade deals -- NAFTA, TPP -- and one of them is sitting next to me.
And the fact is that they're not popular. So it's very easy to rail against those trade deals. And as Chris and I discussed yesterday, there's actually something wrong with them, in that all of them affect manufacturing and working-class people in the richer country that makes the deal.
CAMEROTA: So he's fastened on something that's a winning agenda?
VELSHI: He has. Yes. JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. He may have passed (ph) in saying it's a winning agenda. It's been something that, you know, has united the Pat Buchanans and the Jesse Jacksons, the Bernie Sanders politics for a long time.
CUOMO: How do you put all three of them together?
VELSHI: That's the point.
AVLON: This is where the left and the far left, the far right can sometimes agree. But we've never had a Republican nominee campaign against free trade. And for the Republican nominee to be in a war with the Chamber of Commerce is just another sign of how deeply weird this election is. We are through the looking glass, people. The Chamber of Commerce and the Republican nominee are at war with each other. That has nothing to do with normal political reality. Traditionally, these folks walk in lock step, and now they're fighting.
CUOMO: But Trump is changing what the party is about with him as the nominee, Jackie. He's saying the obvious, which is the Chamber of Commerce, they're part of the insider; they're part of the establishment. They like the special interests. It works for them. That's what pays the fees for them. At some point, he'll probably, "That's how I got my rating to an 'A' for Trump University," exposing it even more.
And it seems to work for him to be at odds with the establishment. Is this an extension of that?
JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": This is absolutely an extension of that. And you're right. In a lot of ways, we could have predicted that Trump and the Chamber of Commerce weren't going to get along.
Where it gets interesting is when you talk about fundraising and spending and also how this affects down-ballot Republicans, because down-ballot Republicans, some of these senators who are running, are not anti-trade, are actually for TPP or have been for these other trade deals. And you can't really have the top of the ticket fighting with Republican Senate candidates.
So that's where things are going to get dicey as we move on. And that -- you know, you're going to have the RNC kind of having heart palpitations. And then when you have the top of the ticket hurting down-ballot races.
AVLON: This is not like a 50/50 proposition. This is like 95 percent of Republicans support free-trade deals and have for a long time. From Ronald Reagan on down, this has been orthodoxy.
And the reality is that, you know, trade deals may be unpopular right now, but we have seen an uptick in manufacturing since 2010. There's been an overall decline since NAFTA, that's true, but this is not, you know -- America...
CUOMO: There's been a decline since before NAFTA.
AVLON: That's right. And America does actually sell a lot of things, for example, to Mexico for $200 billion a year. So this may be populist and unpopular among certain folks who feel squeezed in the wake of the Great Recession, but look, this is total orthodoxy among the vast, vast majority of Republicans.
VELSHI: Go back -- go back four years, just over four years.
CUOMO: Velshi is getting close to you. That's how you know when he's starting to come at you.
VELSHI: You'll all remember that CNN used to have the big bus.
CUOMO: Yes.
VELSHI: And John and I rode that bus in the final days of the 2012 election. And we were in -- we were in Ohio. We were in Youngstown, Toledo.
CAMEROTA: Tell us more.
VELSHI: And the whole discussion was about -- it was a very small bus. And that's where the discussion turned. Because Mitt Romney started talking about autoworkers and trade and Fiat taking over Chrysler and exporting jobs. And it solidified the base for Democrats in Ohio.
They -- workers in America take this trade stuff very seriously. While the rest of us don't really think about it all that much, they associate these trade deals with their jobs being taken away. And this is -- I think it's OK for him. It's smart for him to break with the Chamber of Commerce on this issue, because it will get him their votes.
AVLON: It could help him in Ohio. It could help him in Pennsylvania, no question.
KUCINICH: You can't not mention that also that the messenger matters here. Trump couldn't even live up to his own standards when it comes to trade. A lot of his products are manufactured abroad. And Hillary Clinton has made this point in her recent speeches.
[06:25:10] CUOMO: But he has an answer for that, Jackie.
KUCINICH: What is it?
CUOMO: He has a good answer for that, which is "I have to do it, because the tax system on corporations he is so crazy, the union situation is so crazy that you can't turn a profit here. I'll change those things."
CAMEROTA: But then how is it that he explains what Jason Carroll just reported, that three years ago in his column, he touted globalization?
KUCINICH: Exactly. CUOMO: Taken out of context by a violent media.
CAMEROTA: ... a cohesive global economy?
AVLON: In an article on CNN. And this has been a long-standing view. The explanation is, is "That was then. Now I'm running for president. Do as I say, not as I do."
CUOMO: No, he says -- he says there's a continuum of thought there. That he's not saying he doesn't want any trade deals. He says, "You made bad trade deals. I'll make good ones."
AVLON: "And will negotiate all of them."
CUOMO: No, I'll go to them and say, "This deal's no good. I'm pulling out. I want a new deal."
CAMEROTA: But touting globalization is different than that. I mean, he was in favor of it. And now it sounds like he's not in favor of it.
VELSHI: Right, it does -- I agree. He used the words "globalization," not just "trade." He talked about the idea that we're part of a big global economy.
CUOMO: Now they say "globalist," which is an epithet.
VELSHI: Correct and that's the issue. That we do have to acknowledge that, if we want to buy some cheaper goods from elsewhere, we want to have other countries buy our goods, that's just a relationship we're going to get into, economically speaking. Otherwise, you end up with a bunch of surpluses of whatever it is you make in your country and a shortage of things that you don't make, which have become very expensive. And the American people, the same ones who don't want our jobs going overseas, also like cheap goods.
AVLON: And when countries trade together, they're also less likely to go to war. Don't forget the larger backdrop to a lot of these trade deals, as well, in the wake of world wars.
CAMEROTA: Jackie, very quickly, Donald Trump has also gone after his former Republican rivals, because he says they're breaking their pledge that they took to support the top of the ticket, whoever the party's nominee was.
CUOMO: A pledge they really were forcing him to take?
CAMEROTA: Well, yes. And so he doesn't like it when other people sort of change their word or their promise; and he's going after them for being dishonest about that.
KUCINICH: You know, I don't think anyone's going to shed any tears. Someone like a Jeb Bush wasn't going to -- I think -- I think these Republicans during the race were all kind of hedging their bets, because no one thought that Trump was going to be the nominee. I mean, they can hold their nose and vote for Ted Cruz, but Trump is another -- something else entirely. So I don't know that it's going to hobble their political ambitions, as Trump has suggested.
CUOMO: Well, he -- look, he likes to reach, and he's reaching by saying they should never run again. But look, in fairness, we were there, right? We were covering the pledge. "Trump, why won't you make the pledge? Why won't you make the pledge?" They were all like, "We all made the pledge. We're all part of the party."
Now they have a presumptive nominee; they're not living up to the pledge.
CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you very much. Very entertaining.
Let's get over to Victor.
BLACKWELL: Look at the screen. A roller coaster malfunction leaves a group of kids 100 feet in the air. The rescue operation to get them down, next.
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