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11 Police Officers Shot During Protest In Dallas; Source: One Suspect Dead In Standoff; Officers Targeted Were Protecting Peaceful Protest; Worst Attack On Police Since 9/11; Dallas Police: Three In Custody After Police Killings; Obama: "Vicious, Calculated, Despicable Attack". Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired July 08, 2016 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:30:00] CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: I've never been more proud of a police officer and being a part of this great, noble profession. Seeing the courage, the professionalism, and just the grit to stay on scene in an area looking for suspects, knowing that we are vulnerable. We don't know where they are.

And our downtown is very large with a lot of high buildings and some of the stories I've heard from officers talking about what happened, running toward gunfire to help the injured officers, to get them transported to the hospital by patrol car -- not having the time to wait for ambulances -- and just so many stories of great courage. So we continue to fight the good fight to bring this to a conclusion.

MAYOR MIKE RAWLINGS, DALLAS: I want to add that it is a heartbreaking morning to lose these four officers that proudly served our citizens. To say that our police officers put their life on the line every day is no hyperbole, ladies and gentlemen, it's a reality.

We as a city, we as a country must come together, lock arms, and heal the wounds that we all feel from time to time. Words matter -- leadership matters at this time. I'm proud of our chief.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: An important message there from the mayor. It's just after 5:30 in the east. Let's give you an update on the breaking news that we're covering right now. There has been a massive shootout in Dallas, police being targeted. At latest count we know at least 11 officers were wounded, five officers killed. One, a DART officer, a Dallas Area Rapid Transit -- a Transit officer, four local police.

Still ongoing who did this. At last count there are three suspects in custody. Police are not sure how big a ring of suspects may be involved. There was a shooter that the police had a standoff with. It went about an hour. He is now dead -- that shooter is now dead. Police say they do not know how many others are involved.

They do know that the suspect they were dealing with said the end is coming, that more officers would be killed and perhaps, most urgently right now, that there were bombs planted in and around Dallas. So while the police are saying that that situation is over, they are slow to say the overall scene is secure. They're sweeping actively for other suspects and for explosives. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, just to be clear, what we don't know, is this situation over? Are there more suspects at loose? But we don't know the identity of four of the officers killed. All we now right now is that 43-year-old Brent Thompson, a Dallas Area Rapid Transit Officer -- he was killed. He is the one identity we know, 43 years old.

I was told earlier this evening this is the first death by a Dallas Area Rapid Transit officer ever. It's a horrible, horrible loss and we will learn the identities of the other four and as soon as we do we will bring them to you because our thoughts are with them and their families.

CUOMO: Already, it is the worst violence against law enforcement we've seen in this country since 9/11. You were up covering it all night. This happened at about 9:00 p.m. local time there in Dallas. Protests were going on in reaction to the recent police shootings.

The police do not say, and they say they do not know, whether or not this was about the protest. There's as much speculation from the police right now that this was a crime of opportunity by these suspects as it was that they grew out of the protest themselves.

BERMAN: Matt Horace joins us now, along with Cedric Alexander and Harry Houck. Matt, the president just called this a vicious, calculated, despicable attack.

MATT HORACE, SR. V.P., FJC SECURITY SERVICE, FORMER ATF EXECUTIVE: Nothing short of exactly that. The worst mass casualty in law enforcement since 9/11. All of our hearts are breaking and just like other things that happen like this the assault and assassination of law enforcement anywhere is the assault and assassination of law enforcement everywhere.

BERMAN: And to be clear, the president said we do not know what the twisted motivation is -- his words -- of what these killer or killers was, but he did say there could be no justification.

HORACE: No, never. There's never a justification for assassinating our nation's peacekeepers. I was one for 30 years as a police officer and a federal agent. You're going to see people come together in a whole different way about this incident. Again, we don't know what happened but we will very shortly.

[05:35:00] CUOMO: Cedric, the instinct here is to say oh, it must have been part of the protest. It must be about what these shootings were. But police, themselves, have been slow on that and were very careful to put out the information of what this one suspect had said about the "end is coming" and to relay information about how coordinated this seemed and how planned this seemed. What does that tell you in terms of what may have been the motivation?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, the statement in and of itself -- "the end is coming" -- what type of context is that individual referring to? We don't know. It could be someone who is having a mental health condition. It could be someone who has been radicalized and totally hate Americans and the way that we enjoy our freedoms. Who knows?

But, here again, we're going to know over some short period of time as to what that motivation may have been. But I must repeat that until more information is gathered it is certainly important for us not to tie that peaceful protest to anything other than the fact it was a peaceful protest. And if something shows different later then, of course, we will gauge that.

But this very well may have been and we don't know. This very well may have been a terrorist attack and we have to look, certainly, historicallyat what has occurred across the country and around the globe over the last several weeks.

BERMAN: One thing is clear, it was terrifying. It was a terrifying period of time overnight in Dallas -- chaotic. People did not know what was going on and if not for the heroic work of the officers who stayed on the scene to protect the people there and to apprehend the people at large, it could have been far, far worse. I want to give you a little sense of just how terrifying it was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(Gunshots, Protestors Running)

CORY HUGHES, PROTEST ORGANIZER: The blacks, whites, Latinos -- everybody -- there was a mixed community here protesting and this just came out nowhere.

(Gunshots)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody's really armed to the teeth. This is not -- this is not one person.

(Gunshots)

HUGHES: This just came out of nowhere. As a matter of fact, we were towards the end of the protest --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

HUGHES: -- when the shots started firing off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: Move back, get back, let's go. Let's go, get back, back. Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of a sudden I saw and heard six to eight shots. It looked like two officers went down. I didn't have time to get a good look. I ran back and I was screaming "run, run, run, active shooter, active shooter".

(Gunshots)

RAWLINGS: Let's all come together and support our police officers. Please, let's come together right now as a city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, if you're just tuning in the President of the United States is in Warsaw right now at a NATO meeting and he addressed the comments here. He referenced them as being despicable attacks. He said that this was also a reminder of the excellence of police under pressure. He will not be taking any more questions about this issue, though, so we're not going to take you back to that press conference.

BERMAN: The president said he will have more to say when more of the facts become clear so we will hear from him later, there is no doubt about that. But he, just like the rest of us right now -- he is learning the facts as they become available. Five Dallas police officers killed. The suspect -- one suspect just killed. We got that information just a few minutes ago. Three other people, we believe right now, in custody but police are still on the scene, searching the scene trying to find out whatever else they can.

Sara Sidner is on the ground right now in Dallas in what is still, Sara, a very active crime scene.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is going to be a scene for quite some time because of what has happened here. An absolutely devastating situation here in Dallas for the community and for the police department itself. Five of its officers killed in the line of duty.

Now, we can tell you about those suspects a little bit more. There were two suspects, or two people, who were picked up because they -- for some reason police stopped them on the interstate. They were carrying a camouflage bag, so they brought them in.

There was also a woman who was somewhere in the vicinity of that parking garage where police initially said that they believe that there were two snipers taking out police officers one by one. She was picked up as well.

[05:40:00] We have no new information on exactly what the status of those three people are but we do now know from a law enforcement source that at least one of the suspects is dead -- has been killed. We don't know where that suspect exactly was killed but we do know that earlier this morning, really, the police were at El Centro College. There were SWAT teams that had gone in. There was a flashbang used.

There were bomb-sniffing dogs that were going inside of that building and a lot of witnesses were looking at that and they believe that that's where the suspects may have ended up. And so we're still waiting to find out exactly where that suspect was killed and if there are more who are still active at this hour. Guys, back to you.

CUOMO: All right, Sara. Let's go right now to Baylor University Hospital. That's where we have Kyung Lah. There's some activity there. That's where the officers are being brought. Eleven officers, at least, wounded, five killed in this situation so let's get to Kyung. What are you seeing right now? KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, this is a reminder that these aren't just police officers. That we're very much dealing with human beings and a community that is grieving. We don't know exactly what's happening but I want to give you a look at what we're seeing here. You can see a number of police cars in the foreground.

And what you're seeing there -- the parts that we can see are employees. They look like they're dressed in medical scrubs. They look like nurses and physicians at this university hospital, Baylor University Medical Center, and they're creating a line -- a barrier between the public and what is a very intimate scene behind those people.

From the other side you can see that there are police officers. They are lining the area into what is a white van. We haven't seen them bringing anyone out. We have seen empty gurneys going in. A reminder that what we are looking at is not just a medical center that is dealing with the injured, but we're also looking at people -- police officers who have lost their lives. Five police officers lost their lives this evening. This is the single deadliest day for law enforcement since 9/11.

We want you to meet one of the people. I spoke with DART, that is the regional transportation agency here. The spokesman there says the person who they lost -- the officer who they have identified as being one of their own is 43-year-old Brent Thompson. He is the very first officer killed in the line of duty since the DART police department was formed.

A little bit about him that he wrote on LinkedIn. He worked overseas for private security in Iraq and Afghanistan. He enjoyed trying to teach some of the officers in Iraq and Afghanistan how to be police officers. How to work together as a team. He returned here. He desperately wanted to be a police officer and then joined the DART police department.

The Dallas Police Department captured this entire evening in one word. They said in a tweet that it was "heartbreaking" and you can certainly see that. We get a glimpse of it here outside this hospital. This is a scene that is being repeated not just here but at another hospital across town.

John and Chris, it is, again, not just law enforcement trying to keep people safe. These are men and women, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters who have been wounded, who are in many cases in surgery this evening, and some who have lost their lives -- John, Chris.

BERMAN: The hope is that line of officers there, that line of medical professionals and others outside the hospital -- I think the hope is this morning that that line is 3,000 miles long from coast to coast across this country as people come together to grieve what was lost.

Brent Thompson, just one of the identities of those officers killed. Forty-three years old, worked overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan as an officer to bring safety there and then murdered last night at home in Dallas. CUOMO: Eleven officers involved in this and, again, it's the deadliest assault on law enforcement since 9/11. It came during protests of recent police shootings. Police do not know whether or not it was actually connected to the protests. There are suggestions of this having been more of an opportunity. That this was a team. That this had been planned.

But a very fluid situation. Officers are still sweeping the Dallas area for more suspects and for the threat of explosives that was offered up by a suspect who is now reportedly dead. That "the end is coming" he told the police officers he was in the standoff with there in Dallas and that there were bombs in and around Dallas. There's still a very fluid situation. We're going to give you the latest on what's going on right after this.

[05:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:48:40] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: All right, John Berman here along with Chris Cuomo. The breaking news, five Dallas police officers killed overnight by a sniper or snipers. (Video playing) You're looking at live pictures right now from Baylor University Hospital in Dallas. This is where some of those who were wounded and/or killed were brought.

What you're seeing there is a line of police officers, law enforcement and medical personnel who work there lined up, we believe, in solidarity. Also possibly to shield our eyes to hide what's going on in front of them. To protect, I think, the privacy of those individuals -- not just law enforcement but human beings -- Americans, fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers who have been shot and killed overnight.

You can see the concern. You can see the compassion right now, and you can see this community coming together.

CUOMO: And hopefully this is an outward sign of what everybody is feeling inside all across America, John, as you put very well. This line hopefully extends 3,000 miles all across this country. We know what happened, we don't know why, but let's discuss the implications of this incident. We have a panel of experts with us this morning.

[05:50:00] Mark Lamont Hill, I want to start with you. There is an obvious dialogue going on in the wake of these two shootings. Now, right now we don't know whether or not these were bad guys -- murderers who took this opportunity of this protest to launch an attack or extend it from the protest. But regardless, there is a dialogue going on in this country right now and what is the point you want to make in the wake of this?

MARK LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That we have to separate those two things out. This is an awful tragedy. This is something that should never happen under any circumstances and, of course, our hearts and our prayers go out to those officers and their families.

At the same time that we want to investigate that and deal with that, we also have this separate issue which should not be mixed in with the two. This is the act of an awful human being who did something terrible at the same time that we saw peaceful protests going on right there.

And what I don't want us to do in this moment is overly politicize it, number one. And number two, become too rash in our reaction to it. Instead, we need to find out what's going on in this case, investigate this case and bring those people to justice.

BERMAN: Harry Houck, former NYPD detective join us. Harry, first of all, we know that your heart goes out to your brothers and sisters who've been through this all night in Dallas. Bring us there. What's it like to be on the ground in Dallas right now in this type of situation because one of the things we've seen all night is so many of the officers there act so heroically, even as this was going on and played out over hours.

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, John, they're out there doing their job. This is what police officers do every day out here on the street. This is a terrible tragedy. Let's take a look at this and see what's going on.

The fact here is we've got five police officers dead, several others wounded, so let's focus on that. Let's focus on the fact that if this was a terrorist attack, which I don't think it is, civilians would have been targeted. As far as I know no civilians have been injured unless you know something I don't know, so police officers have been specifically attacked and targeted for this attack.

Secondly, it's the same exact time that there's a demonstration going on against the police. All right, so we have two things that are coinciding. We have people that have been specifically trained to shoot. I mean, these guys have been trained to kill police officers and they did a very good job doing it, so we need to know where that came from.

Now, I, myself, looking at this, I don't see a terrorist attack here. I see a result of -- and I might not be 100 percent sure on this but I see a result of all the anti-police rhetoric that's been going on in this country for the past several years, and finally the catalyst that made these people come out and attack.

And it could have very well been the last two shootings that we're investigating with police officers were called racist and the investigations on these last two shootings does not show any kind of racism at all and that the shootings are not fully investigated to the end yet, so I think this is the catalyst for maybe today was the day that they decided to start their attack.

CUOMO: Harry, first of all, as you know, the investigations are both new in those other two shootings so to take your own point there we don't know what the motivations were in those two cases. We don't know what the facts show. The investigations are early.

And the reason that people are being open on the police side of this to what the motivation was for these murderers is that the suspect that they were dealing with last said "the end is coming" and made other statements to police that sounded like kind of that delusionalgrandiose rationale that isn't just born of a specific piece of anger about these police shootings. That's why the police are offering it up, Harry.

HOUCK: Right, but also the fact he said more cops would be targeted also.

CUOMO: He did, he did.

HOUCK: These are telltale signs, Chris. You're sitting here looking at just the evidence that we're looking at right now on what's going on out here. This is no terrorist attack.

BERMAN: Well --

HOUCK: You know, I'm probably 90 percent sure this is not your typical terrorist attack. This is an attack on the police.

CUOMO: All right, but Harry, what's the -- what's the point? So what's the point? What's the point that you want to make? Let's say you're right. Let's say it's not a terrorist attack, let's say it's people who are angry about what was happening with the police shootings and they feel bad things about the police and they acted in this way. What do you want people to know?

HOUCK: What I want people to know is the mayor of Dallas came out and says -- I think he said words matter. So when you're out there -- and there's a narrative out there like the last two incidents we had and just several other police incidents that have occurred where instantly the police officers are guilty when a white police and black perpetrator are involved and a black perpetrator is shot.

Automatically this is racism, so what this does is causes all that hatred and all that heat into the minds of some of these crazies and, therefore, they're going to go out and shoot police officers. We've seen the same thing happen with two police officers assassinated in New York City.

[05:55:00] BERMAN: Hang on. OK, Harry, just a few points here. First of all, we want to take down the temperature of this as much as we can so that we can have a discussion here. Second point, I think there will be a lot of people who will be comfortable calling this is an act of terror period, no matter what.

CUOMO: Regardless of the motivation.

BERMAN: Police officers were targeted there.

HOUCK: But you know what I mean. You know what I mean.

BERMAN: I know what you mean. I think you're talking about Islamic- based terror. We have no evidence of that, by the way, at all at this point but clearly targeting police officers as they were targeted here in a calculated, vicious and despicable way, as the president said. I think people will be comfortable calling that a terror attack, period. Mark Lamont Hill, I just want to give you a chance.

HILL: No, you said very much what Iwant to say. I think this is an act of terror. The only question is, of what sort? But the second thing here is that there often is a narrative after a police shooting that the criticisms -- the principal criticisms in protest of police violence leads to police dying.

Over the last two years we've seen probably the most protracted and loud critiques of policing that we've seen in American history, maybe at least since the 1960's. And last year, in 2015 -- because Harry and I had the same conversation last year. We said police are dying because of this rhetoric. Last year it was actually one of the lowest years of police deaths.

And people have also said over the course of the Obama administration we've been anti-police as cause of death. An average of 54 police die a year under the Obama administration, 56 under Bush. I'm not making a political claim here as much as I'm saying the critiques -- there doesn't seem to be a statistical correlation between --

CUOMO: Right.

HILL: -- our protests and police deaths. So I'd rather separate those things and figure out what happened here.

CUOMO: And also one thing that bears reminding, and Matthew you've made this point to me before. Do you know who wants excessive force to be stamped out more than anybody else in the police force? Good cops. You've said that before that cops are sensitive to it. They know when their brothers and sisters aren't doing the job the right way. They know the need for training and they want change as much as anybody. Fair point?

HORACE: One-hundred percent. Listen, over 27 years I worked with some of the most noble and courageous people on earth. However, there is racism that exists in law enforcement because racism is a human issue and police officers are human. So, therefore, you will see it and it will be manifested in the way people are treated. I've seen it, I've experienced it, so sometimes these things are no surprise.

But I have to agree with Mark that we have to keep the issues separate. What we have today is an American tragedy of monumental proportions. The investigators in Louisiana, the investigators in Minnesota will continue to do their jobs and they will determine, with the courts, what happened there and what happens next to the police officers involved.

BERMAN: All right guys, stand by. A lot more to discuss. A lot more questions. The investigation on the ground in Dallas very much active right now. We'll have some new details in a minute.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CUOMO: Towards the top of the hour, so let's reset. If you're waking up right now we want to welcome our viewers in the United States, and if you've been up around the world this is NEW DAY.

Devastating, unthinkable -- those are the words that are being used by the President of the United States to what happened in Dallas overnight. Eleven officers involved in a shooting. They're saying there were snipers involved. Five officers killed, murdered. Why?

Here's what we know. At about 9:00 p.m. local time in Dallas there were protests going on in reaction to recent police shootings. During that time there was an ambush assault on police. They were execution- style killings that were caught on cell phone video.

BERMAN: Shots rang out during what had been a peaceful protest in downtown Dallas. These peaceful protests in Dallas and all over the country follow the shooting deaths of two African-American men by police, one in Louisiana, one in Minnesota. As we've been saying, what happened last night with five officers killed is the deadliest single day for law enforcement in the United States since September 11th.

We want to get straight to Sara Sidner, who is in Dallas. We have some new details about the situation there. Sara, what can you tell us?

SIDNER: John, we're learning from law enforcement sources that one suspect has been killed -- has died here in that standoff. What we do not yet know, though, is if this is still an active scene. We have seen police officers for the first time leaving the area where we are. Several police officers leaving the area here on Main Street.

But all of this is still a very, very huge scene. An investigation has to get underway and they are telling people not to come down here tomorrow for work, even though this is downtown Dallas. All of this happening because of a horrific shooting that went on for hours last night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(Gunshots)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God.

SIDNER: Chaos erupting on the streets of Dallas at 9:00 p.m.

(Gunshots)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody's really armed to the teeth.

SIDNER: Gunshots raining down from the sky, officers taking cover.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: Move back, move back, get back.

SIDNER: Protesters scattering in panic as their peaceful march against officer-involved shootings wound down.

HUGHES: I would say probably about 20 gunshots in rapid succession.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was screaming "run, run, run, active shooter."