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Dallas Police: 5 Killed, 6 Wounded; Obama: 'Vicious, Calculated, Despicable Attack.' Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired July 08, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CUOMO: -- to protect. Thank you for being with us this morning. Please send our condolences to the families and let us know what we can do to help. Gentlemen, thank you.

[07:00:11] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: All right. We're going to have much more on our breaking news coverage of the Dallas police killings. Let's get right to it.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

Good morning. Welcome back to your new day in the United States and around the world. John Berman, Chris Cuomo here, reporting on what is certainly a dark day in American history. The deadliest for law enforcement in the United States since 9/11.

Here's what we know. In Dallas, there were protests going on in the wake of these recent police shootings. Then there was an ambush by murderers targeting police. Five officers have been killed. There were 11 targeted. Six others were injured in this.

You're going to see tons of cell video from eyewitnesses who watched this. It went on for over an hour. This started about 9 p.m. local time in Dallas. There are several suspects in custody right now. The last one that they know to be a shooter that they had pinned down at this El Centro -- El Centro University -- or College parking building, he wound up being killed. But before he died, John, he said that the end is coming, that more police would be hurt and that there were bombs in and around the city of Dallas.

BERMAN: Now, we do know just a short time ago, we learned that they have swept that area, and they did not find any explosives.

CUOMO: None yet.

BERMAN: So right now that's the latest situation that we have from there. Just a short time ago we also heard from the president, who called this a vicious, calculated, and despicable attack.

We are learning more information on the ground right there. Let's get straight to Sara Sidner in Dallas. Sara, what are you learning?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're learning that two of the officers' bodies have now been removed from the hospital. One of those officers, DART Officer Brent Thompson, had just gotten married in the past two weeks.

This is a heartbreaking situation for the people of Dallas, for the Dallas Police Department. Eleven officers gunned down, five of whom have lost their lives, six who are wounded. And it all happened at the end of a Black Lives Matter protest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER (voice-over): Chaos erupting on the streets of Dallas at 9 p.m.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody is really armed to the teeth.

SIDNER: Gunshots raining down from the sky, officers taking cover.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move back. Move back! Get back!

SIDNER: Protesters scattering in panic as their peaceful march against officer-involved shootings wound down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say probably about 20 gunshots, rapid succession.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was screaming, "Run, run, run, active shooter, active shooter."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody turned around, tried to shoot at him, he got hit. Boom, fell. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, kept going.

SIDNER: Around 10:30, police confirming snipers in elevated positions targeting officers, picking them off, ambush style, in what appears to be a coordinated attack.

Just before midnight, law enforcement officers cornering a suspect at El Centro Garage downtown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they might have got somebody.

SIDNER: One witness catching the standoff unfolding from the ground. Police exchanging gunfire for over 45 minutes while trying to negotiate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there's somebody else down over there.

SIDNER: One officer, trying to catch the shooter off-guard, sadly shot down. Another witness capturing the suspect from above, wearing body armor, holding so much ammunition it was falling out of his pocket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via phone): I did hear some -- some popping sounds. I did think it was fireworks at first. A man came out, man had a rifle. AR-15, clear as day. It looked planned. I mean, he just parked and knew where to stand and opened fire. He had ammo ready. He's ready to go.

SIDNER: Police now say one suspect has been killed. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect told our negotiators that the end is

coming and that there are bombs all over the place in this garage and in downtown.

SIDNER: But police say they have three people in custody, including a woman who was in the vicinity of the garage and two suspects carrying a camouflaged bag. They were stopped on the interstate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To say that our police officers put their life on the line every day is no hyperbole. We, as a country, must come together, lock arms and heal the wounds that we all feel from time to time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: And we should mention this is the deadliest incident for U.S. law enforcement since 9/11.

Guys, back to you.

BERMAN: Sara Sidner in Dallas. Only September 11, the Oklahoma City bombing killed more officers in this country in the last 60 years. That gives you a sense of just how horrific this was. That's the bad.

The good is some of the coming together and compassion we're seeing right now. One of the most remarkable scenes is unfolding in a Dallas hospital with police and medical personnel hand in hand as the injured are being treated inside and those who have been killed are being taken away. Kyung Lah is at the Baylor University Hospital right now with more -- Kyung.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You get a sense, John, that the reason why this is happening is because they just don't know what else to do. That this is so senseless, and they feel so powerless that all they can do, at least the hospital employees here, is to try to give some of these police officers some sort of privacy amid all of this public horror.

So what we see here at Baylor University Medical Center just a short time ago and throughout the evening, we saw police officers holding vigil out here. Well, as they were moving two bodies out of this emergency room, the body of a Dallas police officer and the body of a DART police officer, we saw the medical staff come out and link arms. They stood side by side.

Well, we could not see beyond them. And that one of the officers told us was happening is that police officers saluting, saluting as those gurneys and those two bodies were moved into the white vans and that van left. We could then see police officers hugging and crying as they said farewell.

This is something that's happening not just here at this hospital but also at another hospital on the other side of Dallas, another level one trauma center. Police officers there also saluting as some of their fallen were taken away. We don't know many of the stories of the people who have died. We

have heard some of these unconfirmed reports of who they are. The only person who has been identified is someone we've been talking about a lot this morning. Forty-three-year-old Brent Thompson, he is the first officer in DART history to be killed in the line of duty. This is a police department that was formed in 1989, a rail, transportation -- trying to keep people on the rail lines and the buses safe.

He has just married two weeks ago. The person he married was a fellow DART police officer. This is not that common. Police officers are known as a giant family. And this family in particular is really struggling as to what to do. This is a community that certainly believes that its police officers want to work with the community.

What we've seen throughout the day from the Dallas Police Department are a number of tweets as they saw the protest peacefully happening for hours before the gunfire happened. And this is a police department also known for trying to engage in community policing. Because if you do that, then it prevents further police shootings -- John, Chris.

BERMAN: Kyung Lah for us in Dallas. You know, we saw the police out there engaging with protesters on the streets up until those last awful hours has been a peaceful moment. Those police doing their jobs, keeping people safe during the protests and then saving lives once the shots rang out.

There are so many questions this morning about what happened and how it happened. Why did these shootings take place? Was it revenge for the killings that have taken place by police over the last two days in this country? Was it an act of terrorism?

CNN's Evan Perez is following the investigation right now in Washington. Evan, what are you hearing from your sources?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, as we've been talking about, these are still the chaotic first hours of this investigation.

Investigators know that this was a planned ambush of cops. That much they're sure of. But at this point, investigators don't see any connection to international terrorist groups. Obviously, that's one of the first places they start looking.

Investigators believe whoever did this was purposely using the cover of these street protests against these police killings. Police say that this march was peaceful and was nearing its end when this ambush began.

So the question at this hour remains, who did this? And is there a broader group that's behind it. Police officers were obviously the targets, and investigators believe the one civilian was also injured, but the ATF and FBI are helping to investigate this attack.

We still don't know for sure how many shooters there were. Dallas police at first last night said there were two snipers. One suspect was cornered at a community college garage. He is now dead. He spoke to police negotiators, saying, quote, "The end is coming."

There were at least three other people, though, that were arrested near the scene as part of this investigation. And there's a lot that doesn't really make sense here for these investigators. Dallas is seen as a model of community policing in this country. The police department there is viewed as having built some of the best relationships with the communities it protects.

Still, at this point no possible motives have been ruled out.

[07:10:05] And I just want to add, Chris and John, one quick thing. I've been hearing a lot from some of the law enforcement folks that I talk to, that I deal with daily. They keep getting worried about the tone of the conversation about police and about some of these shootings. Clearly, that is what's hanging over everything that's happening in Dallas at this hour -- Chris and John.

CUOMO: Well, look, there's no question that this is a country on edge because of what just happened to these officers. And also, there are these bigger issues going on. Just think about what we've had the last couple days.

Two different incidents, two different states. One, Baton Rouge with a history of police controversy. The other one, a small place in Minnesota. But the result the same in both places. Cops, black men, and wind up dead in police stops. So there's a big conversation going on.

But what happened in Dallas changes everything, because we have never seen this kind of result during a protest, as unwanted and unjustifiable as the president and everyone agrees it was. We have new video for you of the actual incident. Here's a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a cop dead? Dude, that's a cop down. Dude, that's a cop down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's four cops down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he shot five, seven times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a dude?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's a sniper from up here somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a sniper?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down, get down.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: Obviously, some people on their cell phone there excited but showing you what's going on there. That's brand-new video of the incident. There's a lot of cell-phone video out there.

And it does show, John, what was their early concern, the man there saying that he'd seen four officers down. The police have confirmed that they were dealing with at least one shooter. They did report overnight two, but there's so much gunfire it's tricky to know, from elevated positions.

And the one guy they were dealing with definitely had body armor, long guns, and lots of ammo.

BERMAN: Falling out of his pockets. Heavily armed, the ammunition, we're told.

Want to discuss right now with former ATF executive Matt Horace; CNN law enforcement analyst and retired NYPD detective Harry Houck; CNN political commentator Ben Ferguson, who is in Dallas and has been up all night as a member of that community, also speaking with police officers there. Also joined by CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers.

Matt, let me start with you. First of all, we heard from our reporting earlier today that the gunmen that we know of, armed to the teeth with ammunition literally falling out of his pocket.

We heard just there in that new video that we heard just for the first time an eyewitness saying four officers down in rapid succession. As many as seven hits in rapid succession. Did one person do that?

MATT HORACE, FORMER ATF EXECUTIVE: One person could, but what we also heard was eyewitnesses saying there was a sniper on the roof of one of the buildings. So we have to take that into consideration.

BERMAN: We saw a person on the ground, and then we heard shots from above.

HORACE: And there were a lot of rounds going off in that one segment we heard. It sounded like a war zone.

CUOMO: But again, another point of concern for the police -- and Matthew, you echoed this this morning also -- is the way that this person was moving, the way that they were armed, and just because you're in an elevated position does not mean that you're going to be able to hit any target, let alone multiple targets in rapid succession without training.

HORACE: One hundred percent.

CUOMO: That winds up leading to questions about what kind of person they're dealing with it.

HORACE: Is it military? Might it be ex-security, ex-law enforcement perhaps? But it has to be someone that knew how to advance and retreat just like what we saw on that video. These were not amateurs. They weren't shooting amateurs. They weren't movement amateurs. They weren't tactical amateurs.

BERMAN: But let's look at it one more time here. Again, this is video that we just got in of an eyewitness telling us what was going on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a cop dead? Dude, that's a cop down. Dude, that's a cop down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's four cops down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he shot five, seven times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a dude?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's a sniper from up here somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a sniper?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down, get down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And you can hear the disbelief right there.

Four cops down then told seven cops were shot. Then the word that it was a sniper from somewhere up high.

Harry Houck, I want to bring you into this discussion. It does seem by what we're hearing and the results, the horrific results, that this was planned. Someone went into this with a plan.

HARRY HOUCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, let me tell you what's going through my mind right now. Is this part of a larger conspiracy against police officers? Are there groups out there connected to this group that are planning to attack police officers in the country? We're hoping that the FBI and law enforcement will be able to find that out.

The second thing I'm thinking about right now is that this demonstration was probably just planned within the last day or two. And the fact that police need to go back to video in that area from a day or two ago and look to see if any of the suspects that they have under arrest or the suspect that is dead, see him walking through that area and doing a recon of the area.

[07:15:13] This way we'll be able to put them back on the scene, especially the people that have been arrested, back in the scene, and see if they're part of that conspiracy and doing the recon in that area. Because it definitely appears like they knew the area very well.

CUOMO: Ben, you were dealing with people who were on the ground there all night long. You were in Dallas yourself. How difficult was this for them to process and deal with, not just in the immediacy of the event, but in the aftermath of knowing what had just happened?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it was very hard, mainly because of just the total chaos that this was. We were at a point where you had game wardens that were being called in. You had police officers showing up from police departments that were more than 60 miles away from where this shooting happened.

One of the things about this area that I think was talking about the planning of this is, this is incredible vulnerable area for police officers. There are a lot of parking garages in this area. There are a lot of places for people to hide. This was an area where traditionally, you have celebrations, parades. Recently there was an LGBT parade in the same area. This is a place where consistently you have protests. This is consistently a place where you have the Fourth of July parade, for example. Veterans Day.

So this is an area that is -- if you are planning this attack, you would know exactly the corridor. You would understand how the police move when they're protecting these parades or protests and whatever may be the event. And this is an area where, obviously, I think these individuals, from what police have said to me, they knew this area well. They knew exactly how the police move in this area and how these protests work their way through the street.

This is right by not only the federal building there. It's right by the DART station. It's also right by the Greyhound bus station. And there are four different corridors that come into this area when it comes to different major roadways, whether it be 45 or 30.

That's why last night you saw the police where they caught a Mercedes Benz with two suspects in it. They were fleeing downtown with those bags. There are four different directions with major highways that you can leave within probably a minute and a half. You could be on the highway headed north, east, west, or south. Completely different parts of the country from this area.

But if you go down there, and this is where I work, I mean, where you saw this all unfold is literally where I go to work, almost every single day, there are so many places where the police could be targeted. And with the echoing off these buildings, as one of the police officers said to me, we couldn't tell where the shots were coming from, because you couldn't tell with the echoes of where the shooter may be happening or shooters, as we now know.

And that's why I think the shooter was also so successful in assassinating and murdering and killing these police officers in downtown Dallas. That's why you see so many police that were in shock and running around, because they're trying to figure out where the threat even is.

BERMAN: It was a great deal of confusion and a great deal of bravery at that moment, dealing with it, particularly because Bakari, a lot of the folks that were there, were there to keep protesters safe, to manage traffic. And the one death that we know is a Dallas area rapid transit officer,

Brent Thompson, 43 years old, the first Dallas Area Rapid Transit officer killed ever. It gives you a sense that, dealing with this type of event is not something typically in the line of that duty.

But Bakari, also we're hearing, you know, one of the things that's horrible about this is Dallas is an example of where community policing is working, where the police have what we're told is an excellent relationship with people on the ground.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, and what we're learning is that, I mean, this -- this is extreme terrorism. You have to call it what it is. But these protests were happening throughout the country. We saw people in New York. We saw people all around the country who were protesting these incidents, because they felt some specific pain dealing with the killing of two individuals at the hands of police.

And so, you know, I can't help but to believe that this act of terror that rained down on Dallas right now -- of course, we know it was just meant to further divide us. And so when we say that we -- we're praying for law enforcement, we can pray for law enforcement and say that everything that happened last night was terror.

But we can also, in the same breath, continuing to remember the two persons who were killed in those recent incidents when they came across law enforcement. Philando Castile and Alton Sterling, we can still call their name.

My only point in this whole conversation is I only hope that we begin the process of coming together and not let what happened last night further divide us. Because the people at their protests -- let me tell you something about the people at that protest. They don't want any more violence. They don't want any more violence at the hand of law enforcement. And they definitely don't want law enforcement killed.

[06:20:07] I have to push back on that narrative. That is not what these protests were about at all.

BERMAN: One of the things we have seen is people coming together this morning. Some of the images that we've seen at the Baylor Medical Center in Dallas simply heartbreaking. People joined arm in arm there, medical professionals and law enforcement, in solidarity with those who were shot and wounded.

Our thanks to the panel for that discussion.

President Obama addressed this just horrifying incident. He is in Warsaw in Poland for a NATO summit. The president called what happened overnight vicious, calculated, and despicable.

CNN White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski is live in Warsaw this morning following the president.

Michelle, what else are you hearing from the White House? MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John.

This is the second time we've heard the president speak on this, and he's been in Warsaw less than 24 hours. First, last night as soon as he arrived, he wanted to say something. He prepared these remarks on his way over. You could hear the emotion in his voice, talking about the victims being people who were shot by police, how this too often falls along racial lines and this further devolves into a divisive political issue. He said we as Americans can do better.

He did make reference to the risks that police officers face. Of course, not knowing that hours later this then would happen in Dallas.

So early this morning, first thing, he wanted to speak again. This time saying that he, like the rest of America, is horrified by what has happened and necessarily focusing on police being the victims. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What we do know is that there has been a vicious, calculated, and despicable attack on law enforcement. Police in Dallas were on duty doing -- doing their jobs, keeping people safe during peaceful protests.

We will learn more, undoubtedly, about their twisted motivations, but let's be clear. There's no possible justification for these kinds of attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: The president also made mention of the fact that powerful weapons were involved. That's an issue he's been working on for a long time, but of course, there hasn't been action in Congress while he's been president.

As for that question as to whether the president is going to cut this trip short, he has this leg in Warsaw, then he's on to Spain. The White House is really watching, looking at the developments and seeing if that's necessary. At this point, though, it seems unlikely that he would make changes to his schedule -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Michelle. Thank you very much. Keep us apprised of that happens in the president's circle there.

We just learned from Evan Perez that a triple sourced report on this is that they don't believe that this murderous ambush of police had any connection to international terror.

Now, that still leaves open a lot of avenues of possibility. It's definitely a terror attack because of what its effort was to inspire. But who did it? We know there are suspects in custody right now. Whether or not they're connected to the actual event, we don't know. We know that one of the suspects is now dead. And they are gathering information about him, but there's still a lot of unanswered questions. Let's bring in Congressman William Hurd of Texas, also former CIA and

obviously on the Homeland Defense Committee in the Congress. So sorry to have to be talking to you in this context this morning, Congressman. Obviously, everybody feels the pain of the families affected in Dallas of these law enforcement officers. What do you want people to know?

REP. WILLIAMS HURD (R), TEXAS: People need to know that, despite the tragedy, we need to be working together to try to solve these problems. This is a time right now where we should be also praying for law enforcement, because they're the ones right now that are reconstructing the scene to try to figure out what happened, understand the motives, interrogate the folks that the three individuals that we have in custody to see if this is a larger plot. To see if law enforcement across the country need to be concerned.

And they're going forward in a very professional way. And that the reality is, is Dallas is already coming together. That shows the resiliency of our American people.

CUOMO: Are the you concerned equally, as the local police there, about what was observed in these murders, whether it was just the one shooter or more, as they originally believed? We don't know where they are on that in terms of the number. But the quality, the movement, how armed they were, the plan manager of this attack. Does it concern you also?

HURD: It does. I think just some of the initial reports show that these individuals had some sophisticated tactics, techniques, and procedures to mount an attack of this sophistication in a fairly short period of time.

[07:25:09] I believe the peaceful protests had only been planned for probably less than 48 hours. And if this was multiple people being coordinated, to be able to go forward on an attack at that level of sophistication takes a pretty high level of understanding of how to kill people.

And this is an issue again that law enforcement right now is looking into to see what were the motivations and whether something like this is going to happen in some of our other cities.

CUOMO: I mean, obviously, that's the big concern, officers waking up all over the country this morning, worried about whether or not this could happen in their city, as well.

Please weigh in on this bigger discussion that's going on. You have two theories right now from the police. One is that these were opportunists that took advantage of a protest to launch this attack. And maybe it's part of a different coordinated effort. We don't know. That's the concern. And they're following him.

The other is that this is a manifestation of anger towards the police in what has become increasingly hot rhetoric every time there's one of these police shootings. And obviously, we just lived through back-to- back days of them. How do you see it? HURD: The reality is it's too early to try to determine what those

motivations were. But these are two larger problems that we need to address going forward in the future, but we've got to have facts first to understand what actually happened.

The reality is the people that perpetrated these killings are trying to divide American citizens. They're trying to divide the people not only of Dallas but the United States. We can't let people that are killing innocent folks to divide us as a country. We can't let them win. They won't win. Because I know the resiliency of our people.

CUOMO: When you think about what they had to do last night, these officers, they knew very early on that they were the ones being targeted. They were actually being hunted by one or more shooters who had superior equipment and superior positioning.

And yet, they spent so much of their time and energy protecting others. What does that say to you?

HURD: Well, it tells you the professionalism of the men and women in blue in Dallas that, one, they were protecting people that were protesting them and not necessarily them specifically but in general. And then when things -- when things turned wrong, they continued to protect those same people.

HURD: That's what makes our country so great. These -- this is the dangers that our men and women in law enforcement face every single day. And they do it proudly. They do it without fear.

And our heart goes out to all the families that are suffering from the loss of a loved one. And there's still people that I don't think are out of the woods yet. And this is -- law enforcement is such a tight- knit community that you have people grieving all across the country.

CUOMO: There are politics at play here also when you have the shootings and the response to the police shootings. This is a more obvious case for unity, obviously, with what just happened to these law enforcement officials -- officers. It's just unjustifiable.

But you know, you have Congress down there, and there are questions about, well, what will you do? You know that these shootings continue. You know they put police officers at risk. I'm talking about these use of force shootings. Nobody wants them to be investigated and justice to be applied more than police officers do, because this puts them at risk every time there's an incident where there was bad policing. What can Congress do?

HURD: I think Congress can have a sober conversation on this. My fear is any time something this major happens, that people retreat to their corners and try out their old tired talking points. And that we need to follow the example of the community in Dallas and actually work together and talk about the solutions together and not try to divide each other. I hope that we can -- we can do that, you know, after such a horrific event.

But the reality is Congress can lead on having a national conversation on some of these problems. But we have to be both sides of the political aisle, have to be willing to talk about real solutions and be willing to gather facts on this issue and make sure that we know -- you've got to identify the problem first, before you're able to move towards finding solutions.

And I'm still hopeful that we can do that. It's going to be hard, but right now we need to follow the example of the community of Dallas and heal together, work together, and not let such a horrific action and senseless murders divide us.

CUOMO: Congressman Hurd, obviously, all hearts and minds are focused on Dallas this morning. And please, let us know how we can help any efforts that you have down there to make this situation better. We'll certainly give it attention. I promise you that. Thank you for being with us this morning.

HURD: Thank you.