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Dallas Police Officers Killed in Shooting; Fiancee of Philando Castile Speaks Out. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired July 08, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Three other suspects or three other people are in custody, including the mayor just confirmed to me, one who is a woman. President Obama spoke just a short time ago. He called the attack "despicable, calculated, and vicious." He is calling on all Americans right now to support police. I want to get to the ground. Sara Sidner is live in Dallas with the latest details. Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Some new numbers coming to us. It is now 12 officers who have been shot, according to the mayor's office. And there were two civilians who were wounded. So those are things that a lot of us hadn't heard yet, two civilians wounded, 12 officers shot. We know that five of those officers did not make it out alive.

A lot of people grieving in this town, not only the families of those police officers and the police departments, two police departments, including the Bay Area Rapid Transit department who lost their first officer in the line of duty during this shooting. The shooting was unbelievably loud, and we heard from witnesses exactly what they heard and saw as all of this was going down around 9:00 at night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: Chaos erupting on the streets of Dallas at 9:00 p.m.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody is really armed to the teeth.

SIDNER: Gunshots raining down from the sky. Officers taking cover.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move back! Get back!

SIDNER: Protesters scattering in panic as their peaceful march against officer involved shootings wound down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say probably about 20 gunshots in rapid succession.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was screaming, "Run, run, run, active shooter, active shooter!"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turned around and shoot him and got hit, boom, boom, boom. SIDNER: Around 10:30 police confirming snipers in elevated positions

targeting officers, picking them off ambush style in what appears to be a coordinated attack. Just before midnight, law enforcement officers cornering a suspect at El Centro garage downtown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they might have got somebody.

SIDNER: One witness, catching the standoff unfolding from the ground, police, exchanging gunfire for over 45 minutes while trying to negotiate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody else down over there.

SIDNER: One officer trying to catch the shooter off-guard, sadly, shot down. Another witness capturing the suspect from above wearing body armor, holding so much ammunition it was falling out of his pocket.

ISMAEL DEJESUS, WITNESSED SHOOTING: I'd hear some popping sounds. I thought it was fireworks at first, came out, man had a rifle, AR-15, clear as day. It did look planned. I mean, he just parked and he knew where to stand and opened fire. He had ammo ready and he was ready to go.

SIDNER: Police now say one suspect has been killed.

DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: The suspect told our negotiators that the end is coming and that there are bombs all over the place in this garage and in downtown.

SIDNER: But police say they have three people in custody, including a woman who was in the vicinity of the garage, and two suspects carrying a camouflaged bag. They were stopped on the interstate.

MIKE RAWLINGS, DALLAS MAYOR: To say the police officers put their life on the line every day is no hyperbole. We as a country must come together, lock arms, and heal the wounds that we all feeling from time to time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: And he is not the only one saying that. We talked to some of those who were involved in the antipolice brutality protest who said the exact same thing.

I do want to give you an idea of what's happening on the scene here on Main Street. If you look over my right shoulder, you'll notice the police presence really has lessened over the last couple of hours. We are seeing traffic going through on one of the roads that was completely cordoned off, but there is still a scene that is cordoned off to the majority of people downtown, and there are still quite a few police officers who are further down this street here. Chris?

BERMAN: All right, I'll take it, Sara. Sara Sidner in Dallas for us. We did get some information from the mayor. The numbers have changed a little bit. Five officers killed, seven officers wounded, two civilians injured as well. We are going to get an update from Dallas police in about 25 minutes, and the mayor seemed to indicate we'll be getting some new information as well about the identities of those killed and wounded and maybe some new details about the investigation as well.

Dallas police have been holding vigil for their own at Baylor Hospital where the injured and some of those killed were taken. Some remarkable images from there. Our Kyung Lah is standing by. Kyung?

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, what we've been seeing overnight are police officers who have been standing outside the emergency room, and they have been waiting here. And we didn't know exactly what they were waiting for because all of the injured had already arrived.

[08:05:00] But then a few hours ago, what we saw were some extraordinary images. We saw some of the medical staff of this hospital come down and link arms. Arm in arm, they created a barrier between the public and what was happening at the emergency room doors. What one of the officers told us was happening was a line of police officers, and they saluted, saluted as two officers, their bodies left the emergency room, the body of a city police officer, a Dallas police officer, and another body of a Dallas Area Rapid Transit officer. We don't know their names, but we know what the department did. They saluted. They said farewell.

And this community, police who aren't police officers, wept, they held hands of police officers. It was a sign that they needed to try to cope. They needed to do something because in many cases, John and Chris, this community right now just does not know what to do.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, and yet out of instinct, what they did in the worst of situations, Kyung, was demonstrate the best, and that started and really in many ways ended with the police on the scene there. They knew they were being targeted, and yet they protected the civilians first. And we saw unfortunately something that's a very rare supply in America right now, unity in this situation at that hospital where Kyung Lah was.

We also heard from Evan Perez that there is an understanding among investigators that this does not have a connection to foreign terrorism. They're not looking at it this way. The mayor just told John that one of the suspect in custody is female, light-skinned African-American. They haven't released any information. We're waiting on a presser at 8:30 local time, eastern time, this morning. We expect more information then.

But we are getting tons of cell video from witnesses there. We want to show you something. We want you to listen to something. First, the audio -- this is police dispatch responding to the Dallas ambush. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Assist officer, shots fired. Code three. Officer down. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got a guy with rifle, we don't know where the

hell he is at.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's in the damn building right there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rifle, hostile, building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inside the central building. Inside the central building.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, just to bring you up-to-date with reporting. First of all, context. These officers were there for protest. Many of them, as you've been commenting this morning, John, were mingling in around with the protesters, having very healthy conversations in what we've seen as a peaceful protest. They were not ready for some type of ambush by somebody who had body armor and heavily armed with tons of ammo so much that it was falling out of his pockets.

The second thing is, we're not clear if it was one or two shooters. Last night, the Dallas police said it was two. But because of the echo effect and how much fire power was being used on them, it could have seemed like two, but was only one. We just heard from an eyewitness there who believes he thought there were two. So that is soft information at this point.

But now we want to show you something also because this is what is giving investigators the most pause for concern right now is that did this grow out of the protest or not. Well, they heard from the suspect they took out that the end is coming, he said, this kind of delusion of grandeur that he had, and that there were explosives planted all over the city. They've done a sweep. They haven't found any in an around Dallas. That's good news. But there was also the way that this murderer moved. We want to show you video now of one of the officers who wound up being taken out by this suspect because it shows the tactics and what they're concerned about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SIRENS)

(GUNSHOTS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right, now what -- that was harder to see than anticipated. We've seen lots of different angels on this one incident, but what it showed was among those pilings that you see there, those columns, there was an officer trying to engage the shooter. But he was able, the shooter, to maneuver around these polls in a very tactically precise way. And I'm not complimenting him in any way. This goes to his level of preparation. And he had body armor on so he was able to win the confrontation with the police officer and wound up executing him. That's giving investigators, concern, John, about what level of individual they were dealing with.

[08:10:05] BERMAN: That and how heavily armed at least one of the people was, ammunition falling out of his pockets, that and the fact that they were positioned in this garage at a high point, clearly, seemingly to pick off as many people as --

CUOMO: And able to do it. Just because you have high position, which the shooter did, doesn't mean you're going to be accurate. And he was accurate.

BERMAN: Let's talk about this more. Joining us, CNN political commentator, "New York Times" op-ed columnist, Charles Blow. Also with, Jeff Roorda, who is with the St. Louis Police Officers Association, and Harry Houck, retired NYPD detective is with us as well. Harry, again, let's just start with the investigation right now. We heard from the mayor a short time ago that there will be a news conference in 20 minutes. We'll be hearing lot more details there. Would not tell us if the suspect killed himself or was shot by police, but he did say there was some kind of explosive device law enforcement used, set off to distract him right before his death. What does that say to you about the confrontation?

HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, the explosive device probably was a flash-bang so that the police officers can enter and take the shooter on. So as the police officers on the scene will know whether or not they fired at the suspect and he went down or he may have killed himself. We'll probably have to wait for ballistics for that.

Let me tell you something, John. I am in awe of the bravery of those police officers. I really am.

CUOMO: Harry, we know this is --

HOUCK: You have 9 millimeter handgun, OK.

CUOMO: Go ahead, Harry, please.

HOUCK: And you're taking on somebody with an automatic weapon, and you have bullet-proof vest that will not stop that round. I hope people can really appreciate what these police officers did. It is hard for every police officer to see this. I'm sorry.

CUOMO: Don't be sorry, Harry. I mean, if you can't feel in a situation like this, when are you going to feel anything that's real and as raw as this situation is? You don't have to be a police officer to appreciate the sacrifice that was there. Many of these officers say, if they had a vest, they were lucky if they had a vest on. A lot of them were dressed for community policing, and certainly they weren't prepared to deal with a military style ambush.

BERMAN: The one officer killed whose name we know so far, Brent Thompson, Dallas Area Rapid Transit, the first of transit officer in Dallas killed ever. So it just goes to show how rarely this type of incident and probably how little they were suspecting anything like this.

CUOMO: And to Harry's point, what did we see when those officers were hit, Harry. Just to make your point, what happened when the fire came was they started protecting the citizens even though they knew they themselves were being targeted.

HOUCK: Exactly. You know, from a group that has had rhetoric against the police for a long time, they still put their lives on the line and pushed people out of the way.

BERMAN: They did their jobs.

HOUCK: They still did that.

BERMAN: They did their jobs, and that's what we ask them to do, and that's what they do every day.

I want to bring in Charles Blow to this discussion right now. Charles, always happy to see you. I can't believe I've seen you three days in a row under these circumstances. Two officer involved shootings. First, the protest last night over those shootings. At the conclusion of the protest in Dallas, which had been peaceful up until that point, this horrible mass murder of police officers. I just want your reaction this morning.

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, the protests themselves are ultimately about life, the ability to live out your life and not have life unreasonably taken. Your response to this has to be about life. You can't have selective outrage and selective grief. If you are a human being and you feel for other human beings and you believe that people need to be able to go about their lives and their daily lives and do their jobs and go home to their families, then you have to be able to grieve for what is happening too.

I don't even understand, you know, what a lot what I've a seen over the last few hours have been people rushing to try to figure out ways to see if something adds to an argument or doesn't add to an argument. I don't understand where you stop being human enough to slow down enough to say, yes, the two people who were killed who the protests were about, had families, and they are hurt, and they are angry. These people have families too. There is somebody at home who knows that that person left home that morning, and they're never going to come back home that night.

And this is not an arms race of atrocities. Until we break out of that sensibility to say that everybody deserves to go home after being outside of the home, whatever they were doing, whoever they encounter when they're outside of that home, deserves the right in America to make it back there without being targeted for whatever reasons they are targeted.

[08:15:17] That is really important for us to always bring it back to being -- to the humanity of us as a country, and as a people. You know, these guys, you know, the -- Dallas Police Department, by the way, is one of the most diverse police departments of big city police departments we have. Fifty-five percent of them white, the rest of them are minorities. The police chief is a black man.

This idea that it is some sort of race war, we have to slow down on that. Remember, these are just -- at this point, these are people. They have the suspects in custody and killed one. They know who they are. We just don't.

When we feel that void of our lack of knowledge with speculation, with hotness and rhetoric and rather than dealing with the fact that these people are lost and that they have people grieving for them and we should all be grieving for them, we just hurt us.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: That's a lot of the concerns the officers have. This is a worst case scenario for many officers in America.

Jeff Roorda, we've been on the ground together, trying to figure out what to do and you hear from officers all the time that this type of thing happening in the wake of a police shooting is their nightmare, right, that they're going to be targeted in a way because of the acts of a few that all become vulnerable.

JEFF ROORDA, BUSINESS MANAGER, ST. LOUIS POLICE OFFICERS ASSN.: Sure it is, Chris. I'm with Harry. I'm very sad this morning. I'm appreciative of the heroism of the Dallas police. If you think I'm coming on today to participate in this charade where we all pretend like we're surprised that after two years nonstop hate speech against law enforcement, that it has culminated in this coordinated deadly attack against law enforcement, you got the wrong guy.

And for Charles to say let's not fill the void with speculation on what happened in this police shooting, that's what we have done for the last two days with these shootings in Baton Rouge and Falcon Heights. That's what we've done for the last two years in every high profile encounter that has ended badly for law enforcement.

CUOMO: Charles?

BLOW: This is precisely what you don't want to do, right. And I won't engage in that. I don't even know this man.

ROORDA: Of course you're engaging.

(CROSSTALK)

BLOW: We're not going to argue. That dehumanizes and --

(CROSSTALK)

ROORDA: This planned killing.

BLOW: Chris, if you want to do this, let him talk. I won't.

BERMAN: Hang on one second, Jeff.

BLOW: I won't even do that. BERMAN: Charles was talking.

ROORDA: Go ahead, Charles.

BLOW: I'm not -- I refuse to try to politicize. I won't do it. I am going to say this again and again and again. If you were out there protesting because you believe that that is about life, that people have a right to live their lives and not be targeted by anybody for any reason, you believe that for every human being, and I believe that just as strongly for those police officers as I do for anybody else whose life is taken, I refuse to take part in anything that any -- I don't know that man who is talking. I won't do that.

BERMAN: I want to do one thing that we can all agree on. We know the identity of one of the officers killed last night, Brent Thompson. Let's put up his picture, 43 years old, all right, married, we understand, just two weeks ago. We know this man, Brent Thompson, had been overseas working as a security officer in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This is a man we talked to as chief of police, who said he loved his job, he went to work with enthusiasm every morning and loved seeing people on the streets everyday. So, look, we're looking at Brent Thompson right now. Everyone here agrees our hearts go out to him. We will learn more names of those who were killed and wounded last night in Dallas and our hearts will go out to them as well.

CUOMO: Gentlemen, thank you for dealing with a difficult situation, and of course, any time we see the worst, we always expect the best of ourselves coming out of it.

So, thank you for being part of that this morning.

Now obviously context is everything in these situations. That protest that was going on in Dallas was about the recent police shootings and the questionable uses of force. And you have seen them across the country, after these two black men were killed by police.

The latest cases that raise the same issues, the names are new, the situation the same. Philando Castile, shot by a police officer during a traffic stop Wednesday, his fiancee, Diamond Reynolds, changed our recognition of this situation by taking to Facebook live to record the aftermath.

[08:20:05] Not what led to the shooting, but the reaction after it.

Now, for the first time, we're going to hear from her. We have Philando Castile's fiancee, Diamond Reynolds, we have Philando Castile's mother, Valerie Castile, Philando's uncle, Clarence Castile and Larry Rogers, he's the attorney for Diamond Reynolds.

Thank you to all of you for joining us this morning under the toughest of circumstances for you personally and now for the entire country.

Mom, I want to remind you first, you came on the show yesterday and you said, what we want is justice. What we want is for protests to be peaceful. And there were protests all over this country, but then we saw what happened in Dallas, which seems to be a calculated, planned assassination of police officers.

Your reaction?

DIAMOND REYNOLDS, FIANCEE OF PHILANDO CASTILE: Your reaction about the Dallas thing?

VALERIE CASTILE, MOTHER OF PHILANDO CASTILE: Me? I don't know anything about what happened in Dallas. And I'm sure what we have planned for here in the state of Minnesota is not of that caliber.

We are having a peaceful protest, and I don't know anything about what happened in Dallas. My son died just the other day and I haven't had sleep in almost 48 hours. So no, I haven't been watching any television, so I can't answer that.

CUOMO: All right, I appreciate you being with us. We know how difficult this situation is for you and the entire family.

Diamond, you're there. Everybody came to know you in this country through this episode where you took to Facebook live. How are you doing?

REYNOLDS: I'm not doing so well. Emotionally, I'm tired. My daughter, I'm just trying to keep her strong and encourage her and constantly keep praying for justice.

CUOMO: There have been a lot of questions about you and you daughter. She is 4 years old, we understand. She was in the car at the time, we heard her speaking to you afterwards, trying to console you, which was heartbreaking for all of us to witness. How is she?

REYNOLDS: She is not doing well, but she is the typical 4-year-old girl. She is as smart as ever. She's brilliant. And she is going to be graduating preschool today. Phil would have been there to watch her graduate, because he was like a father to her. So she is very hurt, but she -- with the help of family, we will get through this. We will.

CUOMO: And Diamond, as you're dealing with your own personal pain, what do you want people to know about what you want for Philando, we see your shirt, that it says "rest in peace." and we see your crucifix around your neck. What is today about for you?

REYNOLDS: Today is not only about justice and getting justice, but it is about all the families that have lost people. This thing that has happened in Dallas, it was not because of something that transpired in Minnesota today. This is bigger than Philando. This is bigger than Trayvon Martin. This is bigger than Sandra Bland. This is bigger than all of us.

So, today, I just want justice for everyone, everyone around the world. Not just for my boyfriend and the good man that he was, because I'm going to continue to stay strong for him. And I want all of you guys to do the same.

CUOMO: Valerie, what are you hearing from authorities about the investigation into your son's death? We do understand that the Department of Justice is going to be involved. Are they in contact with you?

V. CASTILE: In reality, I have not heard anything about his death or I have not been in contact with any type of investigators. No one has reached out to me as far as anything concerning him. As a matter of fact, since son has been killed, murdered, executed by the state of Minnesota's police officers, I have not yet to see his body.

CUOMO: Have they given you a reason for that, Valerie? You had mentioned that yesterday, that you wanted to be able to identify your son, that they hadn't given you that opportunity. What is the reason that they're offering? Is it the investigation, is it the autopsy?

V. CASTILE: Well, it was the autopsy at the beginning, and I don't understand why it was important for them to have dental records or fingerprints, because I think my eyes could inform them that this is my son. So they kept me from seeing him, and once they completed the autopsy, I was told by an individual that works at the coroner's office that they did not let people view bodies at that facility. I was denied access to my son's body, and I have yet to see him now.

[08:25:04] They called me and said that I could come and see him after other things had transformed as far as my time limitation.

CUOMO: Clarence, you've obviously been sticking very close in this situation to make sure that your nephew is treated with respect by investigators. Are you satisfied with what you're getting from the authorities?

CLARENCE CASTILE, UNCLE OF PHILANDO CASTILE: No. As my sister said, the authorities haven't shared any information about the investigation. They - they took a long amount of time before his body was released.

Actually, we found out late last night that my nephew's body was released and it is in a facility near around and we will be viewing his body today.

But no, I'm not satisfied with how things are going. I believe that, you know, the autopsy report said that there was a homicide committed. And normally when there is a homicide committed, somebody is arrested and there are charges.

V. CASTILE: Absolutely. Absolutely.

C. CASTILE: And at this particular time, we haven't heard about anybody being arrested or any charges. And we are going to have an investigation done by the Department of Justice, and not the BCA.

V. CASTILE: A independent source.

CUOMO: You want it to be --

REYNOLDS: The BCA was the ones --

CUOMO: Go ahead, Diamond.

REYNOLDS: The BCA were the ones that came to the scene, contacted me and questioned me, and Chris Olson was the one who gave me his business card. He has yet to reach out to me. I've been calling him. He has yet to reach out to his family, to myself or my daughter. And I just feel very sad and outraged that a police officer could take a man's life, but there is absolutely really nothing being done behind it.

CUOMO: Diamond --

LARRY ROGERS, DIAMOND REYNOLDS' LAWYER: This is undoubtedly a murder of this young man. We absolutely need an independent Department of Justice investigation. This is a murder that has been captured on videotape thanks to the presence of mind of Diamond, and everyone saw it. We can see what happened here. And we want justice.

People are tired of what has been happening to young black men across the city, across this country, we need justice by way of an independent Department of Justice investigation. We'll be requesting that the Congressmen step up and request that. I understand that the governor has made that request.

And these -- this family wants an independent investigation that they can trust and rely upon. The trust has been lost in the local police department and local law enforcement. So we need that independence if we're going to trust that investigation.

In addition to that, we need our own investigation. We want to do our own independent autopsy. We want to do our own independent forensic evaluation of that video.

We want to capture all of the sound that was recorded by Diamond so we can see what they were saying as he was dying in that car, and they placed her in a different car, and they were putting together a story about what happened. All of that needs to be evaluated thoroughly. We want to do it ourselves and we want it done independently by the Department of Justice.

CUOMO: Understood. Thank you very much -- understood. Valerie, Diamond --

V. CASTILE: Everyone needs to be held accountable.

CUOMO: Understood. You want the closest thing to the truth you can get, and that's going to lead to the accountability that these situations deserve. We understand.

Diamond, you're the only one who was there. And we see your video from what happened after the shootings. What can you tell you about how these shootings happened? What do you remember?

REYNOLDS: It happened fast. They said that it was a truck stop and it really wasn't.

ROGERS: Traffic. REYNOLDS: Traffic stop, and it really wasn't. I mean, only the officer at hand knew what he was thinking when he was transferred from a different state to come to Minnesota. And I just feel like at the end of the day, there has to be justice served.

Minnesota is a state where everyone comes together. And I just would really, really appreciate it if everyone, every force can come together on this case and stand together, because this is something much bigger than me. I'm going to be strong, but it is my daughter that has to live with this on her little brain for the rest of her life.

CUOMO: Diamond, take this --

V. CASTILE: Absolutely.

C. CASTILE: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Diamond, as heartbreaking as it is that your daughter had to be here for this, you did too and I know that's not easy for you. What did you see when the officer came up? You said it was called a traffic stop, but it wasn't. Supposedly it was about a busted taillight. You're saying that's not true. What happened when the officer came to the window?

REYNOLDS: He asked for - he asked us did we know why we were being pulled over. And he asked if we had license and registrations. Those were the only two questions asked.

CUOMO: And what did Philando do? Did he comply with the request?

REYNOLDS: He absolutely complied to the request. He absolutely did everything that the police asked him to do up until he was killed.