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Interview with Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings; Dallas Police Officers Present at Shooting Interviewed; Obama Travels to Dallas in Hopes of Healing Nation. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired July 12, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The thing that brought you onto TV today and what you want to say, this is just the first step. This is just the first conversation. You say when you say talk to police, you want to talk with a group of individual who are concerned with Commissioner Bratton.

Q-TIP, RAP ARTIST, RECORD PRODUCER: I grew up in this city. I believe that New York City is the satellite city to the world. And I came up in New York City during a period where there was a lot of crime, and it was just out of control. And I feel, like, when I see certain things that Bratton says, I kind of of understand it, but I see where he's in error in certain things. And I don't want to berate him or take him down. I want to have the opportunity to be able to talk to him, to bring some of those young people that I spoke about from these organizations there to talk to him so that he can have an understanding of what it is that we really need so that hopefully this singular "we" as African-Americans, Latinos, people of color who are under duress from the police, through these kind of conversations and through this kind of work, he could be inclusive of the "we."

We have that kind of utopia or would like to have that. We believe that the idea of America is a great idea. It's a great premise when it was written up hundreds and hundreds of years ago. But it's our duty, all of us now, seriously to really make sure that becomes a reality.

CUOMO: So let this be a first step. The invitation is out, Commissioner Bratton.

Q-TIP: Come on. Please. We've got to at least sit down and have -- you got to have some kind of understanding of where we're coming from and vice versa. The only way that can happen is sitting in a room and talking.

CUOMO: Q-Tip, thank you for taking the first step. We'll have you back on the show. We want to find out about this happen.

Q-TIP: Yes.

CUOMO: Thank you, appreciate it.

There's a lot of news to get to this morning. Let's do it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love my son with all my heart. I hate what he did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We as a city, we as a country must come together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first time I've ever heard police say my guys are frightened.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is deeply troubling.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am the law and order candidate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us what you stand for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are dying in the streets.

CROWD: Black lives matter!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know why this has to be us against them. This has to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CUOMO: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, July 12th, 8:00 in the east. Alisyn is off. Poppy Harlow is here. Good to have you.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to be here.

CUOMO: We have big news this morning. President Obama heading to Dallas on an all too familiar mission of comfort. He's going to speak at a memorial for the five police officers killed in the line of duty. This will be the 11th visit from the president to a city torn apart by mass shooting.

HARLOW: Hundreds attended a candlelight vigil last night in Dallas honoring the victims. The city's police chief there remembering his fallen comrades as superheroes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE CHIEF: Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. Look, it's a train, it's a plane. No, it's Patricio Zamarripa. Look, it's Brent Thompson. Look, it's Michael Krol. Look, it's Lorne Ahrens. Look, it's Michael Smith. Godspeed. God bless you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: The chief choosing such a different way and such a poignant way to remember these officers. Let's continue that message now with the Dallas mayor, Mayor Mike Rawlings. Mr. Mayor, I thank you for joining us, and again, as I've been saying, I'm sorry it's under these circumstances, but the city needs attention as much now as ever. What do you think of how the chief decided to remember these officers by harkening us back to the early Superman days of how to see what these men were in their lives?

MAYOR MIKE RAWLINGS, DALLAS, TEXAS: Well, he's right. For his and my generation, that metaphor is perfect, because those are the people -- that was the image that saved us all and that's what our police officers do day in and day out. Not only in Dallas, but throughout this country, they are superheroes.

CUOMO: What does Dallas need right now? There's this proposition that there has to be healing that takes place. How, in your opinion?

[08:05:05] RAWLINGS: Well, first of all, I think mourning is a healthy thing. We all have to go through it. Mourning not only lets us integrate our feelings, but it helps us come together. We do it during births and weddings and funerals. And our city will be better because of that. Also, it gives us pause to think about what we want to do in the future, how we want to change. And I think that's an important part of the psyche.

CUOMO: And what do you see as the questions going forward? It's hard to look at this one shooting as a metaphor for what the social condition is because this guy was a madman. Yes, he was motivated by what he saw out there with Black Lives Matter. But he was deranged. He was a madman. Even his parents say that he had somehow lost it. So what do you see as the problem and the challenges in addressing that problem?

RAWLINGS: Chris, I think you're really correct. We're very proud of what we've done as a police force. We had the lowest police-involved shootings. We had some of the best practices in the nation. And yet it happened to us. So if it can happen to us, it can happen anyplace.

I think it does call on us as individuals to change our attitude, whether we want to change. Most of us, when we say we want a change means we want the other guy to change and not me. The question is as a country, do each of us look in our heart and want to step forward and try to build that bridge so we can all get over it together?

CUOMO: One of things, and I know that this is a solemn occasion, but I am tempted by the opportunity to make use of it because people are paying attention right now. And we deal with mayors all the time, Mayor Rawlings, and they say the same thing. Everybody wants us to do community policing, everybody wants more training, and then they cut our budgets. And national politicians and political figures will say they want to help and they want more, but never any block grants, never any money to do what they say wants to be done. Is that your reality as well?

RAWLINGS: I think so. I think the reality around city councils, state houses and at the highest legislative branches. For me, what they can do is help us with mental health. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a mental health crisis in America. And if we don't deal with it just because it's invisible, it comes back and finds us on our front porch just like this or what happened in Orlando or Charleston, other places that it breaks our heart. And so that's where we're going to have to find the spending and make some tough decisions on that.

CUOMO: What do you see, and, again, there is an irony, an obvious one here, that Dallas was targeted when the police force there has made such inroad in the community and done so many things that are encouraged as a way to deal with the racial aspects of policing, and yet we're dealing with this tragedy where things had been getting better. What do you think works in terms of addressing the concerns of minority communities about police?

RAWLINGS: Well, I think all of the above. You've got to reach out to communities. You have to talk. Chief Brown was one of the first to train in de-escalation. We've got to integrate at the high levels. We've got to do those things. But we can never do those things and lose our self-esteem as a police force, as a city, as a rule of law. We must be proud of that, constantly improving, versus trying to chase the shiny object. And if we do that and balance those things at the same time, I think we'll make progress.

CUOMO: Mr. Mayor, what's your take on what Dallas means? I hear from many of the officials down there in your city who say, this guy who did this was mentally ill. Don't look at this as a reflection of what's going on. Yes, there are protesters with Black Lives Matter here. Yes, that matters, but that's not what this was. But then you have people running for president who say this is just the beginning, it's going to get worse. We're going to see more killing. What do you think?

RAWLINGS: I think leaders are hopeful. Leaders paint a vision that is better. And I believe that Dallas will be better, I believe Texas will be better and the United States will be better from this. We must be ever vigilant for issues like this and have a sense of urgency to deal with issues like mental health, like community policing, like best practices. We must always focus. But we are here to paint a future that is better, not to paint a cloud that is a doomsday scenario.

CUOMO: Mr. Mayor, you and the chief are certainly not opportunists, but you certainly did rise to the opportunity.

[08:10:03] And this is a unique way to have to work with a police chief that you have here. What have you learned about this man that you call your partner now, the chief of police?

RAWLINGS: Hopefully Chief Brown, the mayor, city council, just a representative of this city. He grew up here, like so many citizens, with grit and determination. But he is steely-eyed, determined, willing to make the tough choices. And most importantly, he's intelligent enough to know that we can do better, but first and foremost we must support our police officers. It's got to start there, and constantly move better versus the flip-flop.

CUOMO: Mr. Mayor, this is a situation that demanded leadership, and you and the chief have provided it beautifully for all to see. Thank you for joining us on NEW DAY and the best for the memorial today.

RAWLINGS: God bless all your viewers.

RAWLINGS: Thank you, sir.

HARLOW: Certainly have led beautifully. So let's talk to some of the folks that serve the city of Dallas as we're learning frightening new details about exactly how this ambush unfolded on Thursday night as the peaceful protesters watched the gunman just open fire on police in horror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a cop down? Dude, that's a cop down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's four cops down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. He shot five, seven times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a dude?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It's a sniper from up here somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a sniper?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You hear the shots? Get down!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Our next two guests responding to that call for help, Dallas County Sheriff's Department Deputy Gary Aven and Deputy Francisco Martin. It was Deputy Martin's second week, only his second week on the job. So thank you both for being with us. Thank you for what you do for your city in serving.

Let me start with you Deputy Martin. Your second weekend, I can't imagine. This plays out. Walk me through what it was like responding.

DEPUTY FRANCISCO MARTIN, DALLAS COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Well, it was kind of crazy, because we heard over the radio that shots were fired and one officer was down. And a trained officer automatically puts his car in drive, and we get to the scene. And we arrive and right when we get there we hear shots ringing. And we don't know where it's coming from at the moment. All of a sudden he says, get out, get on his side. I do that and I could actually smell the rounds actually being shot out. That's how close we were to the situation.

HARLOW: Wow.

MARTIN: Like I said, it was a shocker. HARLOW: You could smell the rounds? Deputy Avin, can you share with

us what your fellow officers in blue said to you that night, said to you in those moments?

DEPUTY GARY AVEN, DALLAS COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Basically, you know, they were just saying we need to set up a perimeter at that time and get all the civilians away from the situation that were around there, because there was a dart train that came through and left some people out there in the open with it. And we had to get them out of there also. I had to worry about, of course my trainee, my partner right here and making sure he was OK, making sure he stayed with me the whole time.

HARLOW: Did they ever speak about concern for their own safety?

AVEN: You talking about the civilians, right?

HARLOW: The officers. Did the officers --

AVEN: The officers?

HARLOW: Yes.

AVEN: No. Our main -- everybody's main goal was to get out there, find whoever is doing all this, and put it to a stop.

HARLOW: I want you both to listen to something that the chief of police there in Dallas, David Brown, said there yesterday about welcoming protesters to join your ranks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We're hiring. We're hiring. Get out that protest line and put an application in and we'll put you in your neighborhood, and we will help you resolve some of the problems you protesting about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Deputy Martin that is an interesting, unique response to protesters, some of them who were protesting you and your comrades and actions of police officers. What did you make of hearing that?

MARTIN: I mean, you know, it's like he says. It's not an easy job to do. You've got a lot of things going on every day. And you've just got to try your best to apply what you learned, you know, through your training. So it's like Chief Brown said. Join the ranks. I mean, it's not an easy job.

HARLOW: Deputy Aven, would you like to see that? I mean, can you see a point in time when some of those protesting could join you in what you do, make things better as a whole?

[08:15:08] AVEN: Absolutely. I thought it was a good step forward for the chief to say that. It brings everybody to have open eyes about it. It's like Deputy Martin right here said. It's not an easy job. It

takes a certain kind of person to put on this uniform every day and step in and try to help out the community. For him to say that was pretty awesome.

HARLOW: Pretty awesome.

Deputy Martin, let's wrap up with this. You said this event makes you love you job even more. How is that possible?

MARTIN: Right. I mean, like I said, the academy tries to put you in every scenario they can think of but when situations like this happen you don't plan for this. It makes me more eager to learn more about my profession, and, you know, it makes me want to even try harder to fulfill my duties as a deputy sheriff in Dallas County.

HARLOW: Wow. Gentlemen, we thank you both for you time this morning, for what you do for you city, and the people of Dallas. And we hope that the words from both President Bush and President Obama today can be of some comfort. Thank you so much.

AVEN: Thank you.

CUOMO: Poppy, that's just another demonstration of these incidents that we just keep having here in this country. You just think about it. For President Obama, he's been to almost a dozen different cities beset by mass murders.

So, what's the president going to say today? Will it be any different? How hard is this for him?

We're going to talk to Reggie Love, the president's former special assistant after this quick break. He'll help us get inside the head of the president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is nothing inconsistent with supporting the police and acknowledging the problems that exist in terms of dealing with the communities that in fact are feeling put upon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: The vice president is right, of course. I mean, there should be a consistency between valuing the life of the police officer and the people they come into contact with. But it isn't that way. We're as divided on this issue as any issue facing the American people today.

And it often falls to the president of the United States to become what we now call the consoler in chief. Eleven different cities he's had to visit, all for the one and worst reason, another mass shooting.

[08:20:03] What does that do to him? How does he prepare for this? What does it mean to him?

Let's discuss with someone who knows him very well. Former special assistant and personal aide to President Barack Obama, Reggie Love.

Reggie, good to see you on the show as always.

Help us understand how this affects President Obama, first of all. When you have been with him and he's heard about one of these, what does it do to him?

REGGIE LOVE, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRES. OBAMA: Good morning, Chris. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I think it's been some tough times here in the country. In terms of how the president feels and responds about these types of situations, it's always a disheartening thing to have to prepare to be the consoler in chief, as you mentioned it.

You know, I think -- look, I grew up in the south. I think the expectation that people are going to get things 100 percent right all of the time isn't always the case. When I turned 16 in 1996, my parents said to me, you know what, be very careful if you get pulled over by the police because we don't want you to get accidentally shot.

They didn't tell me stay at home. They didn't tell, don't drive a car. But they said, look, this is part of the deal.

CUOMO: For the president, he has a dual burden in these situations. He's entering them as head of the country, the ultimate power. But also as a black man. And he therefore has kind of a unique attachment to these situations. How does he balance that, in your estimation?

LOVE: Unique attachment -- I don't know how he balances it. I think you're spot on because -- you know, I think -- he definitely is the first African-American president and this is something that weighs heavy for him. But he's also the leader of the free world. And I think it's important to unify the country as a whole and just to address one specific gender or one specific race.

CUOMO: What does it mean to you, this notion that we've had 11 of these? We have an African-American president. Things were supposed to get better.

This was supposed to be progress. This was supposed to help the politics of race in this country. And yet we seem as divided as ever. What do you make of that suggestion?

LOVE: Well, I think that that suggestion is probably a little skewed. I think that technology has made it much easier to report something that has systematically always been the case. So welcome to the party.

CUOMO: And, Reggie, what do you think you're going to hear from the president today? What do you think his message is going to be in Dallas? Do you think it will be different or do you think this calls for the same as what we see every time? LOVE: Well, no, I think -- I think this is another great opportunity

for him to talk about what he's already talked about before, which is the idea that given that you have these scenarios and these situations where you've got young men being shot in cars by police officers because he's armed. You've got people who are mentally unstable shooting 11 officers in Dallas because he's been able to buy firearms and train in his backyard.

I think this will be a great opportunity for him to address the real root of the problem, which is trying to come up with a sensible gun control policy that, you know, will help create less fear and less apprehension for not just people who are being approached by officers of the law but also for officers of the law who are approaching normal citizens. I think this will be a great opportunity for him to move that message along.

CUOMO: What do you see in the poll numbers like Pew that came out last week? The question was Obama has made race relations worse, 32 percent of white Americans agreed with that proposition, only 5 percent of black Americans. What do you see in that number?

LOVE: I laugh. As an African-American male, I can't imagine where else I would rather live than in the United States of America. The reason people want to be here is because there's opportunity.

Now, does that opportunity come through 100 percent equality? No. But still nonetheless, more opportunity and more equality here than you're going to see in many other places in the world.

CUOMO: Now, there's no question the president is gearing up for his last big fight, right? He wants to see his legacy extended, his work extended by having another Democrat in the White House.

[08:25:05] He always says I'll leave my legacy to historians. And, by the way, Regg, all presidents say that.

But as somebody who knows him well, cares about him and knows his work, what is your suggestion as to how this president should be remembered, for what?

LOVE: You know, I have the utmost admiration and respect for President Obama. I've been lucky enough to have spent many days, hours, months, years with him.

And to be totally honest, I think history will remember him as someone who has always tried to make things a little bit better for everyone. You know, he's never taken a shortcut. He's never gone for the thing that's been politically the easiest. He's always done what he's believed to be the best thing for the American people.

And to -- and to Brown's point about we leave so many challenges to be solved by the police officers, I think that it's not that we leave police officers to solve those problems, we haven't come up with solutions, so we expect our law enforcement to handle those situations until we solve them. And I think this president has worked tirelessly to, you know, deal with the incarceration rate, to deal with education inequality, to deal with the income inequality.

And so, I think you can't solve these things overnight, but history will remember him kindly and all the things that he's done to move those issues forward for all people.

CUOMO: Reggie Love, you present a unique combination of intelligence and contact which gives us great perspective on the president. Thank you very much for helping us today.

LOVE: Chris, thanks for having me this morning.

CUOMO: Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure.

Poppy?

HARLOW: Great interview. So good to hear from him.

And next, you're going to want to hear from these two men. We're talking about doctors, nurses, medics, heroes, all of them who jumped in following the Dallas attack. Their valiant efforts to save lives. Their powerful words, next on NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)