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Obama: 'I've Spoken at Too Many Memorials'; 3 Arrested in 'Credible Threat' to Harm Officers; Trump Calls for Justice Ginsburg to Resign. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired July 13, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have spoken at too many memorials. I've hugged too many families.

[05:58:34] CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: These five men gave their lives.

OBAMA: We ask our police to do too much, and we ask too little of ourselves.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are grief- stricken, heartbroken and forever grateful.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: These tragedies tear at our soul.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I am the law and order candidate.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It is either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton will make an outstanding president.

TRUMP: Bernie Sanders' people, they're going to be voting for Trump.

CLINTON: We are joining forces.

RYAN: I'm just as interested as the rest of you are on who the V.P. pick is.

TRUMP: I don't know whether he's going to vice president. Who the hell knows?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY, with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, July 13, 6 a.m. in the east. Alisyn is off. Poppy Harlow and I are here for you this morning. It's good to be with you.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: A lot of news.

CUOMO: Absolutely.

Dallas, that's where we're going to be this morning, because it is the site of our collective sorrow. Three of the city's finest will be laid to rest this morning, thousands expected to honor these fallen heroes. President Obama consoling mourners, challenging us to find the character to unite.

HARLOW: Absolutely. All of this as we are learning chilling new details about a credible and very disturbing plot to kill police officers in Louisiana. The arrests come amid the growing tension over the deadly police shootings of two black men this week. We have complete coverage this morning. I want to begin with CNN's Sara Sidner. She's live for us in Dallas.

Good morning, Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy and Chris.

You know, when you listen to each president -- you had President George W. Bush and President Barack Obama both standing in front of a crowd -- you hear the same message from them. And the message was that America needs to unite.

But one of the hardest parts of all of this is going to come today, with three officers being laid to rest today. And those officers are Michael Thompson, Brent Ahrens -- Michael Smith, Lorne Ahrens, and Brent Thompson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OBAMA: We are not as divided as we seem.

SIDNER (voice-over): President Obama urging the country to unite at a memorial service for the five police officers killed in Dallas.

OBAMA: I know how far we've come against impossible odds. Race relations have improved dramatically in my lifetime.

SIDNER: The president trying once again to console the nation.

OBAMA: My faith tells me that they did not die in vain. I believe our sorrow can make us a better country. I believe our righteous anger can be transformed into more justice and more peace.

SIDNER: For the 11th time in his presidency, he addressed a city reeling from another mass shooting, the president visibly frustrated by this reality.

OBAMA: I have spoken at too many memorials during the course of this presidency. I've hugged too many families who've lost a loved one to senseless violence.

SIDNER: President Obama acknowledging both the plight of police officers and the grievances of the community they serve. OBAMA: Insisting we do better to root out racial bias is not an

attack on cops, but an effort to live up to our highest ideals.

We cannot match the sacrifices made by officers Zamarripa and Ahrens, Krol, Smith, and Thompson, but surely we can try to match their sense of service.

SIDNER: Those five officers represented by these empty seats, draped in uniform, hats, and folded American flags.

BUSH: These slain officers were the best among us.

SIDNER: Calling Dallas home, former President George W. Bush offering his condolences and reminding the country of the force that unites us all.

BUSH: We recognize that we are brothers and sisters sharing the same brief moment on earth and owing each other the loyalty of our shared humanity.

SIDNER: The city's top cop, David Brown, receiving a standing ovation for his leadership in this crisis. The chief honoring his fallen comrades.

BROWN: There's no greater love than this. That these five men gave their lives for all of us.

SIDNER: Reciting lyrics from Stevie Wonder's "Loving You Always."

BROWN: "Until the ocean covers every mountain, and I've got to say, always, I'll be loving you always."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: The president also took time early on Tuesday to personally call the families of the two men killed by police last week, but I do want to reiterate that the families will be laying to rest these three officers, Brent Thompson, Michael Smith, and Lorne Ahrens. This will be a hard day for Dallas -- Poppy.

HARLOW: It absolutely will. Thank you so much for that beautiful piece. Sara Sidner, live for us in Dallas this morning.

At the same time as the country is focusing on those fallen officers, tension is high in Louisiana after police there -- after the shooting death of Alton Sterling a week ago.

Now, police in Baton Rouge have announced that they have foiled a plot aimed to kill their own police officers. Polo Sandoval is live for us this morning in Baton Rouge with the latest developments.

This is absolutely stunning, what they found.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy, stunning and extremely disturbing here. It all started as a pawnshop burglary here in town over the weekend, and it's now risen to the level of being considered a credible threat against police officers here in Baton Rouge.

Let me explain what happened here. We were told that there was a break-in at a local pawnshop over the weekend. About eight handguns were stolen. During the course of the investigation, authorities were able to track down at least three individuals and detain them, one of which, 17-year-old Antonio Thomas, telling investigators that they, quote, "planned to look for bullets to kill police."

Obviously, investigators still following up on those threats, but they are also using this as an opportunity to explain what has been a truly impressive police presence at some of the demonstrations that have taken place here in Baton Rouge since the initial shooting of Alton Sterling happened here seven days ago. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:05:06] SID J. GAUTREAUX III, SHERIFF, EAST BATON ROUGE: What you saw in the response is because of the very real and viable threats against law enforcement. And all I can -- all I can say beyond that is look what happened in Dallas. A very peaceful protest, and then some crazy madman did what he did. So I think the threat speaks for itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: Again, it's actually just over a week since the Sterling shooting, but it has been seven days since the sound of gun -- the sound of gunfire erupted there on the streets of Dallas. That's one of several reasons why authorities here are at a heightened sense of alert.

There's a second possible threat to tell you about. Investigators are also following up on reports that there was an individual following one of the Baton Rouge police officers here. Investigators didn't go much into detail there. But again, it just speaks to the level of awareness that we're seeing by law enforcement here, guys.

CUOMO: Even on high alert, it seems, these days. Polo, thank you very much.

All right. Let's discuss the implications of what's happening in Dallas and where we are in dealing with the situation in this country right now. We have CNN political commentator and host of "The Ben Ferguson Show," Ben Ferguson. We have CNN political commentator and host of BET News Marc Lamont Hill; and CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Laura Coates.

We know why we are in Dallas. We know why these deaths matter. Or we should know. And we know what the challenges are going forward. We had two presidents try to lay it out yesterday. And they both did so, I thought, with beautiful language. The question is, will the ideas be accepted? It seemed the crux of it, the crux of the challenge, was laid out by President Obama this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: I understand how Americans are feeling. But Dallas, I'm here to say we must reject such despair. I'm here to insist that we are not as divided as we seem. And I know that because I know America. I know how far we've come against impossible odds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: How do you think that message will be received, Marc?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR; I think people will be inspired by it. I think people will be moved by it. The question, as you spoke to, is will it lead to substantive change? I think it will not.

And the reason I say that is because we are, in fact, divided. There is a huge gap in this country between how people perceive police and how other people perceive police. Some people see them as a protective force. Some people see them as an occupying force. There are people who feel like police are under attack right now. Other people see it as a structural, systemic critique, as I do, of a system that is broken in poor communities and vulnerable communities.

So with those gaps there, we're going to maintain a divide. So what we need to do at some point is have a deeper and more thoughtful analysis of who police are, what police are in our communities, and how we can either change the relationship between communities and police, or change the role the police play, period.

CUOMO: Now Ben, I was listening to you yesterday. And I know that you felt that the first half of the speech was good, the second half of the speech when Louisiana and Minnesota were mentioned was not appropriate for the occasion. Why? Why don't you feel that you have to look at all these losses of life the same way?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Because I think Dallas had nothing to do with those two instances. And when you see these police officers, these five that were murdered and gunned down, their lives and what they did when they went to work every day, had nothing to do with those other two cities.

And we're on -- we're at a point now, I think, in this country where we're teetering on an issue of there is so much disrespect for police. And there are policemen around the country since Dallas that have been targeted. Their lives had nothing to do with the actions of what happened in St. Paul or in Baton Rouge.

And we still are getting mixed signals. There needs to be a clear signal. This is from policemen here that said this to me: "My life and what I do every day in this city in a diversified police force that is incredibly involved in community policing had nothing to do with the bad actions of other police officers. And yet, we still feel like we're all being held accountable with the possibility of our life taken from us, because we have gotten into this grand debate without remembering that the police, the mass, mass majority are good people that go to work, that protect protesters, that protect people that disagree with them, just like we saw here in Dallas." And so there is a certain point here where we have to have the

unequivocal backing of the police force as a whole. You can still call out bad police officers, as we should. You can still investigate police corruption, as we should. But there should be no debate outside of that with overall police.

CUOMO: Laura Coates, put your mind to that. Obviously, if there was a simple answer to the proposition, we wouldn't be in the situation we're in right now. If there were a way to simply show unqualified support of the overall while condemning the few, we wouldn't be where we are right now. Seems to be a balance that's difficult to strike. Why?

[06:10:08] LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the problem that Ben is talking about, the officers (ph), is actually what black Americans are talking about in general. It's actually more simple than he's making it out to be. Which is neither police officers nor black men or black Americans in general would like to be judged by the few that are not law-abiding, the ones that are doing the wrong thing.

Officers are asking the same thing that black Americans are saying, which is "My life is valuable. I have a role in society, and please respect that role. At the same time, let's have a collective condemnation of those who are not lawful."

And that's the same struggle that blacks are having against officers, and officers are now having against them.

The president's words are very resonating for that reason. The divide is not as great, because we have the common objective of having accountability for those who are lawless. And if we stop having the competing narratives of whose story is more impressive or has more thought-evoking, provoking emotion, then we actually can come to a common ground of saying, we already have a justice system in place that is designed to protect and ensure accountability. Unless officers are held to the same standard, however, we're going to have a greater divide.

HILL: I'm saying something slightly different. And I agree with you. I think that the idea of not holding an individual accountable for an entire system, it's compelling. Right? And I agree with that when it comes to black men. They shouldn't all be criminalized. Police shouldn't all be demonized. We all are on the same page with that.

But I'm saying there's something structural here. We don't hate individual soldiers, but we can say the military structure is a problem.

CUOMO: Help -- take one more step down that road before you make your next point.

HILL: Yes.

CUOMO: People have a hard time accepting how you can say there is systemic racism...

HILL: Right.

CUOMO: ... but you are not indicting all of the people within that system, in this case, all of the police officers.

HILL: Right. And that's why I used teacher example. Right? I can say public education is broken. There are great teachers who come in every single day and want to do a good job for the public good. But if you're given a bad curriculum, if you're forced -- if you're mandated to teach that curriculum, you're not given resources, you're not given the things that you need, and as a teacher, you're forced to do a million other jobs other than your -- you're forced to be a social worker, the nurse, everything else, you're an agent of a system that's broken.

I'm saying that the individual cop might love people. He might love the community. He might live in that community. She might live in that community. That's not the issue. But if you have laws that force you to over-police one neighborhood; and you have laws that force you to over-criminalize a particular group of people; and you have -- you have a system that's broken from the time you get arrested to the time you get bail, so you end up having to exchange money for freedom; the prosecutorial system is broken because of lack of resources, contract lawyering and all this other stuff, then it's not just about the individual cop's nature or his or her character. It's that the system is broken, and even against their best efforts, they can't do anything about this. That's what I'm saying.

I ain't demonizing cops. I'm saying the system doesn't work.

FERGUSON: But Chris, here's...

CUOMO: Yes, Ben, final point.

FERGUSON: Marc, here -- here's the one thing, though, that is so frustrating about this conversation. The majority of what you just talked about, Marc, dealt with a legal system that has nothing to do with the average police officer that puts a badge on and walks out into any city.

You had a police chief who's African-American, who came out after the shooting and said, "Most days we do not feel the support of community. Please let us feel your support now." That is an overall, I think, encompassing point for police all over the country right now.

We -- there should not be debate about their purpose or what their intentions are in general. And there is still somehow debate to justify the anger or actions of people against police officers in a way where they're being targeted.

When you have an African-American police chief in Dallas who is doing it right, everyone has agreed he's doing it right, the way he polices communities, the way that he has community policing, when he has African-American police force that outweighs the number of the population, and he still says, when he walks out there, "We do not feel like we have the support most days," that is a massive problem in this country. CUOMO: All right. This is one step down the road of a conversation.

We seem to take a step every day. That's a good thing. Laura, Marc, Ben, thank you.

Ben, please extend our regards to where you are this morning.

FERGUSON: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: This is not an easy conversation, but that's exactly why we need to have it. And you know what? Even though there's a lot of attention on policing right now, doesn't make it any easier. And in fact, it makes it more difficult to have this conversation, because we're doing it from such a source of pain.

But tonight, we'll have more of this conversation. Right on your screen, you see "Black, White & Blue: America 2016," town hall hosted by Don Lemon tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Meantime, big headlines this morning. Donald Trump is calling for Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg to resign, this after she called him a, quote, "faker" and a lot more in a CNN interview.

Their escalating war of words heating up this morning. Our Sara Murray is live in Indianapolis with the Trump campaign.

This is definitely -- this is a first: a public feud between a presumptive presidential nominee and a sitting justice.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. You're absolutely right.

Look, Donald Trump has had a number of surprising political foes during this campaign season. He's battled with members of his own party. Remember, at one time he was battling with the pope. And now it's a Supreme Court justice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[06:15:09] MURRAY (voice-over): Donald Trump intensifying his battle with Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Trump now calling on Ginsburg to step down, tweeting early this morning that Justice Ginsburg "embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. Her mind is shot -- resign."

In an interview with CNN, Justice Ginsburg blasted Trump as a "faker" who "really has an ego." House Speaker Paul Ryan addressing the controversy in a CNN town hall last night.

RYAN: I think it's out of place for an appointed branch of government. That shows bias to me.

MURRAY: Meanwhile, Trump playing to the hometown crowd last night, coyly hinting Indiana Governor Mike Pence might get the V.P. nod.

TRUMP: I don't know whether he's going to be your governor or your vice president. Who the hell knows?

MURRAY: As Trump tries out potential running mates on the road, he still insists the pick is coming this week. And Pence is aiming to prove his prowess on the campaign trail.

PENCE: I think it would be extremely careless to elect Hillary Clinton as the next president of the United States.

MURRAY: The vice-presidential intrigue coming as both presidential candidates grapple with more somber issues on the trail, a string of shootings claiming police and civilians alike.

CLINTON: These tragedies tear at our soul.

MURRAY: Clinton responding with a call for national guidelines for police use of force and training about implicit bias.

CLINTON: Get law enforcement the support they need while also stopping the tragedy. The tragedy of black men and women and black children being killed in police incidents.

MURRAY: While Trump says he stands unequivocally on the side of police.

TRUMP: The hostility against our police has to end.

MURRAY: Trump even claiming, without offering any evidence, that protesters in 11 cities marched in solidarity with the shooter, who killed five police officers in Dallas.

TRUMP: The other night you had 11, think of it, 11 cities potentially in a blow-up stage. Marches all over the United States and tough marches, anger, hatred, started by a maniac that some people asked for a moment of silence for him, for the killer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now, Trump has been known to play it fast and loose with the facts throughout this campaign, but he's already facing a little bit of blowback for that last comment there, which appears to be unsupported by any facts or any reporting we've seen.

And back on the V.P. front, Trump is going to continue to fuel speculation today. Unexpectedly, he decided to stay the night here in Indiana last night after campaigning with Mike Pence. His campaign says he'll still be heading to California today for fundraisers. And of course, we'll be waiting to see, Chris.

CUOMO: Mike Pence, Sara Murray, that's a name we're going to be hearing a lot about today. And we'll see where that leads. Thank you for the reporting.

So here's the latest turn in this election. On the list of things that you thought you would never see happen in an election. A Supreme Court justice is getting into it with a presidential candidate. Ruth Bader Ginsburg has said critical things of Donald Trump not once, not twice. She says it; she owns it. And now Trump wants her to resign. What is right and wrong in this situation, and what will happen? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:22:33] HARLOW: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Donald Trump calling for Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg to resign. This is a first.

This is after she made comments in an interview with CNN, very negative comments, about Donald Trump, calling him a faker and a lot more. Trump tweeted very early this morning, quote, "Justice Ginsburg of the U.S. Supreme Court has made embarrassing -- has embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. Her mind is shot -- resign."

Joining us now to talk about this, CNN political analyst and host of "The David Gregory Show" podcast, David Gregory; CNN political reporter Sara Murray in Indianapolis; and CNN Politics editor Juana Summers.

This is a first, but who's surprised, because this election has taken so many, so many twists and turns? David Gregory, what is your reaction to the public brawl between Trump and Ginsburg?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's so very much 2016. Right? I mean, it's just in keeping with the bizarre nature of this race. It is highly unusual, every jurist that I've known on the federal bench and certainly on the Supreme Court as a justice usually stays, you know, away from direct engagement, publicly, on political matters. It's not to say that they're not active politically and don't care about it and don't have deep friendships in the capital with political figures. Certainly, Antonin Scalia had that and others have, as well. And Justice Ginsburg does, as well.

But generally speaking, I think this is highly unusual to comment so directly about a presidential candidate; and to get in this kind of back and forth is I don't think anything that somebody wants to see.

CUOMO: We've got different layers to this, right, Sara? You have the "are judges supposed to do this?" And we all know that there's -- you know, there's somewhat of an artificial notion about judges being apolitical. We deal with it all the time in the confirmation processes, and then they get on the bench and we see exactly who they are politically. But they don't do this.

There is no code of behavior for the Supreme Court. She can say whatever she wants, but it just avails her of conflict going forward. Politically, Sara, how do you think this plays?

MURRAY: Well, I think politically, that's why you've already seen a number of conservatives, including Paul Ryan on our air last night, come out and say this was inappropriate; she was overstepping. And I think it should be no surprise to us to see that Donald Trump responded in kind. He does not take this kind of criticism well.

[06:25:02] And he also feels like this is completely inappropriate by a Supreme Court justice. And so I think we could expect to see more of this kind of criticism. As David Gregory was saying, it is highly unusual to see a Supreme Court justice weigh in like this, particularly as we're in the throes of this very heated campaign season.

HARLOW: I wonder, Juana, do you think that this helps Trump as just another opportunity for him to point and say, "Look, they've got it out for me. Look at this. This is, you know, so uncalled for. This is so out of the norm, and look at these judgments being made publicly." And not just the CNN interview, by the way. "The New York Times"...

CUOMO: Oh, yes. Several different times.

HARLOW: ... the Associated Press. That she's doubling down on this. Does this actually help Trump galvanize supporters?

JUANA SUMMERS, CNN POLITICS EDITOR: That's absolutely right. If you look at this, this isn't just one comment by Justice Ginsburg. This is a string of obviously very intentional comments to a number of publications.

So I think in that sense, this does help Trump. A lot of people who are tuned into this election are very clear that the next sitting president could well have a chance not to nominate just one but several Supreme Court justices.

This gives Donald Trump something to attack. Right? He's got a very prominent justice, arguably one of the more prominent jurists on that bench. He's now able to say, "Look, she's stepping out of her role she's supposed to have. If I'm elected president, I can perhaps replace her and several other justices."

Now, whether or not Trump can channel that effectively, rather than kind of the off-the-cuff freewheeling attacks that he's been using throughout this campaign remains to be seem, but I do think in some ways with he could use this as a positive.

GREGORY: And I also see...

CUOMO: Go ahead, David.

GREGORY: Let's also remember, in an election year when Bernie Sanders is the cool guy who can reach the young people, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is the notorious RBG.

HARLOW: RBG, yes.

GREGORY: Right. And so she has a big following among, I would argue, younger people who may now know a lot about the Supreme Court. But they know about her. So from a political matter, her speaking out may be seen as some by an act of courage.

Again, I don't think that changes the fact that most people would see it as uncalled for and inappropriate. But again, I think it also reveals something about Donald Trump and how he sees himself. He sees himself as under attack all the time, and he won't let any attack go unanswered.

I was struck by him saying that, in a V.P., he's looking for someone who can answer those attacks so that he can be more presidential, as if he would ever stop answering those attacks.

CUOMO: Yes. I say it as a joke, but it does happen to be true. When I first did an investigation into Donald Trump, one of his legal letters back to us threatened to sue not just my employer but my parents. You know? So this is a guy who does not suffer criticism well.

HARLOW: As you noted at the top of the show, he didn't start this fight, by the way.

CUOMO: No, he didn't. He didn't. But you know what? That's what power and leadership is about. How do you deal with the negative that's going to be coming your way? And David's right. To a lot of his critics, Ruth Bader Ginsburg galvanized exactly what the criticism is.

All right. So let's do this. Who thinks it's going to be the V.P. for Trump: Newt, Pence or other? Chris Christie -- Chris Christie then becomes the face of everybody else, right? You know, it could be him. Could be anybody else. David, start with you.

GREGORY: Well, I mean, in the end, in the end, I think that he's going to want a strong Washington hand, somebody who knows the game and can perhaps, you know, give him, you know, kind of -- the kind of advice, the ways of Washington advice. And I think that he'll want to couple that with somebody who can have a sharp tongue.

So I think that gives Newt Gingrich the edge there. I think Pence is more of a move to mollify conservatives. But, you know, I just don't know how much Donald Trump really cares about that. So I don't know. I think he wants something a little brasher but more government experience.

HARLOW: But Sara, doesn't -- doesn't he have a problem with Newt on a number of fronts? First of all, one of the biggest supporters of NAFTA. Right? And then you've got a lot of criticism that Newt Gingrich was very public with, with the comments about the judge a month ago or so, and about other comments he's made about the remarks about Muslims. Doesn't he run into that? I mean, is Newt really what people are pointing to here?

MURRAY: Well, I think one of the difficulties with Newt -- and when you ask Donald Trump about Newt, he just says, "Newt is Newt." I mean, one of the difficulties is his willingness to come out and critique Donald Trump publicly.

But I do think that it was telling to hear Trump say he wants an attack dog, and we saw Mike Pence last night going out on offense in a way we hadn't seen before. And that's because this position has worked for Donald Trump.

I mean, we've been talking for weeks about how his campaign has been struggling and jumping from controversy to controversy again since he's locked up, essentially, the Republican nomination.

But the latest round of swing state polls this morning show that he's effectively tied in Florida and Ohio and Pennsylvania. So it seems like right now Donald Trump feels like the strategy he has going is working pretty well for him.

CUOMO: Want a quick answer. Who's it going to be?

SUMMERS: I think I agree with David here that he's looking for someone who can both channel Washington and bring that forceful attack. Sara put it well. We saw that from Mike Pence last night.

Biggest striking thing for me, though, is that you had 17 Republicans competing for the nomination. Many of the bright stars of this party not on that list. That other list is pretty short. Donald Trump's pick is certainly likely to be out of the box. So I think, given this cycle, it's probably anyone's guess.

HARLOW: Anyone's guess, and it could come any moment. Thank you so much, all three of you. We appreciate it.